Questions and Answers about the Case and Law in general

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RE:Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

Legal Definition of Involuntary Manslaughter
The Legal Term * Manslaughter, Involuntary * Defined & Explained ... In order for a person to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter the government must prove that someone was killed as a result of an act by the person;
www.lectlaw.com/def2/m011.htm


:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

Is there a law that could define the privacy and humiliation of a (dead) person with such private information like autopsy and coroners report presented publicly in media and tabloid??

What about the family, do they have the possibility to sue somebody?
Did they have a chance to stop it?
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

Dont forget to post comments on the articles on the net!

We have to support Michael!


I think that any articles about the autopsy and coroners report are total and ultimate humiliation of Michael as a person.

Now, there are no secrets, nothing private, Michael as a person had/has no privacy.

I am horrifyingly surprised at this, the point is that Michael is now dissected publicly, literally!

I cant think about that... its surreal...
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

Is there a law that could define the privacy and humiliation of a (dead) person with such private information like autopsy and coroners report presented publicly in media and tabloid??

What about the family, do they have the possibility to sue somebody?
Did they have a chance to stop it?

It seems like the only reason it's out is because of the freedom of info act. But someone unsealed the report I think.
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

The Jacksons can only complain about the Murray, but they do not care about the media humiliation of Michael!

Such morons..., they spend MJs money, but they can not prevent the media humiliation!
They would have asked the judge for blocking and outlawing any private info for media.... like autopsy.

Who is Michael? a media guinea pig? or the experimental figure who they can write everything about? Literally everything!!!
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

PDF]
Criminal Law: Involuntary Manslaughter

To give of the code definition of involuntary manslaughter.2 But .... 11 CALIFORNIA LAW REVIEW. 436 would seem that the definition gieren in the principal ...
www.jstor.org/stable/3474386 - Similar




[PDF] A New Test for Involuntary Manslaughter ...

In California the offense of involuntary manslaughter may ..... STANFORD LAW REVIEW tinent for this case, is that which occurs in the commission of a lawful ...
www.jstor.org/stable/1226627 - Similar
[ More results from www.jstor.org ]



:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

Is there a law that could define the privacy and humiliation of a (dead) person with such private information like autopsy and coroners report presented publicly in media and tabloid??

What about the family, do they have the possibility to sue somebody?
Did they have a chance to stop it?

Unfortunatly: the media etc. are protected under the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution.

US Constitution: Bill of Rights





Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Amendment III

No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Amendment VII

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
‹ Signers up

Source: Cornell Law School

:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

^^ That right sadly, the American media is protected by the first amendment hence why you can't easily sue them.
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

The United States Constitution is the basis for all of which America and her Legal System stands for...


The Constitution of the United States of America (see annotations)

Source: Cornell Law School


:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

While we're on the subject of law....what judge is presiding over this case? Who is he?
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

The United States Constitution is the basis for all of which America and her Legal System stands for...


The Constitution of the United States of America (see annotations)



Source: Cornell Law School


:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~

wow, thanks for that! :wild:
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

If I am not mistaken, the autopsy report is public domain. They are only private while a crime is being investigated and to protect what information about a crime as far as how the victim died until the crime has been solved and charges are filed. Autopsy reports are not supposed to be private. Autopsy reports belong to the government/tax payers who pay for the government. The Jackson family have no say so what so ever on the autopsy reports.
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

^^ so... what about Elvis? Where is his autopsy?
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

Shouldn't Murray's medical license be suspended pending trial?

And from a strategic point of view, is it wise to release the autopsy report now?
 
Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

I have a friend who is a lawyer in LA, with a lot of experience.
We both are members in a discussion group on yahoo, willing to vindicate Michael's image, which after the trial remains heavily burdened. :better:
Here she gave us from California Penal Code the definition for MURDER:


MURDER, FIRST DEGREE
In order for someone to be found guilty of first degree murder the government
must prove that the person killed another person; the person killed the other
person with malice aforethought; and the killing was premeditated. To kill with
malice aforethought means to kill either deliberately and intentionally or
recklessly with extreme disregard for human life. Premeditation means with
planning or deliberation. The amount of time needed for premeditation of a
killing depends on the person and the circumstances. It must be long enough,
after forming the intent to kill, for the killer to have been fully conscious of
the intent and to have considered the killing. First-degree murder in
California includes a killing that is "willful, deliberate, and premeditated,"
or that is committed in the perpetration, or attempt to perpetrate, certain
felonies, including burglary, and not including the petty offense of
shoplifting. Cal. Penal Code S 189.

MURDER, SECOND DEGREE
In order for someone to be found guilty of second degree murder the government
must prove that the person killed another person; the person killed the other
person with malice aforethought; and the killing was premeditated. Note that the
elements are identical with those for 1st degree murder. The practical
difference is the sentences are different. Which crime to charge is usually
entirely up to the prosecutor's discretion.

MANSLAUGHTER, VOLUNTARY
In order for someone to be found guilty of voluntary manslaughter the government
must prove that the person killed another person; the person acted in the heat
of passion; and heat of passion was caused by adequate provocation. Heat of
passion may be provoked by fear, rage, anger or terror. Provocation, in order to
be adequate, must be such as might naturally cause a reasonable person in the
passion of the moment to lose self-control and act on impulse and without
reflection.​

MANSLAUGHTER, INVOLUNTARY
In order for a person to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter the
government must prove that someone was killed as a result of an act by the
person; second, in the circumstances existing at the time, the person's act
either was by its nature dangerous to human life or was done with reckless
disregard for human life; and third, the person either knew that such conduct
was a threat to the lives of others or knew of circumstances that would
reasonably cause the person to foresee that such conduct might be a threat to
the lives of others.

You can see then, can't you, that involuntary manslaughter is the only crime for
which Murray can reasonably be expected to be convicted. "Malice aforethought"
is missing from the circumstances involving Michael Jackson, who agreed to be
injected with propofol and of his own volition took other drugs.

Murray will likely lose his medical license and, hopefully, be convicted of
involuntary manslaughter that carries a maximum penalty of four years.
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

Michael Jackson, who agreed to be
injected with propofol and of his own volition took other drugs.

You cant say that because nobody knows what Michael agreed to. He may have though he was going to be put on a drip for dehydration for all we know. And there hasnt been any signs in the autopsy report that Michael was abusing drugs. Just that he was taking prescription medicine.
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

^^ so... what about Elvis? Where is his autopsy?
What are you talking about, Elvis autopsy reports have been released to the public as well as the cause of death. Also Elvis death took place in Memphis, Tennessee and not California, so there may be a difference in the laws. And keep in mind that Elvis died over 30 years ago, so maybe the laws were different back then. And Elvis death wasn't deemed a crime so it should be accessible to the public. Most cities and states have a place where people can go to retrieve records involving the death of a person.
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

wow, thanks for that! :wild:

Your very welcome...

Posting the US Constitution I felt...will help many with the questions they may have about the process of the US Legal System.

:angel: Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

Shouldn't Murray's medical license be suspended pending trial?
And from a strategic point of view, is it wise to release the autopsy report now?

Murray was served with an Indictment defined as
In the US common law legal system, an indictment (pronounced /ɪnˈdaɪtmənt/ in-DITE-mənt) is a "formal accusation" that a person has committed a criminal offense. Source: Wicki

Hence: NOTHING has been PROVEN that Murray is guilty of any wrong doing. Nor do we know for sure if Murray will choose a Bench Trial, Jury Trial, or Plead out (no trial at all).

So right now, in my opinion it is way too soon to tell.

:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

Shouldn't Murray's medical license be suspended pending trial?
the medical board have filed papers to have it suspended. prob takes a while and thats why they asked the judge to suspend it straight away.he refused but banned him from using anesthetic

And from a strategic point of view, is it wise to release the autopsy report now?
doesnt seem to be anything in it that helps the defence and do they have a say? is it automatically released once charges are filed?
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

You cant say that because nobody knows what Michael agreed to. He may have though he was going to be put on a drip for dehydration for all we know. And there hasnt been any signs in the autopsy report that Michael was abusing drugs. Just that he was taking prescription medicine.

It should not matter if Mr.Jackson was on RX drugs...

Conrad Murray was Mr.Jackson's PERSONAL "Licensed Medical Doctor".

Doctor's/Medical Professionals have a duty to take care of their patients within the guidlines of the Code of Ethics of the Medical Field.

Medical Code of EthicsPreamble

The medical profession has long subscribed to a body of ethical statements developed primarily for the benefit of the patient.

A physician must recognize responsibility to patients first and foremost, as well as to society, to other health professionals, and to self. The following Principles adopted by the American Medical Association are not laws, but standards of conduct which define the essentials of honorable behavior for the physician.

Principles of Medical Ethics

1.) A physician shall be dedicated to providing competent medical care, with compassion and respect for human dignity and rights.

2.) A physician shall uphold the standards of professionalism, be honest in all professional interactions, and strive to report physicians deficient in character or competence, or engaging in fraud or deception, to appropriate entities.

3.) A physician shall respect the law and also recognize a responsibility to seek changes in those requirements which are contrary to the best interests of the patient.

4.) A physician shall respect the rights of patients, colleagues, and other health professionals, and shall safeguard patient confidences and privacy within the constraints of the law.

5.) A physician shall continue to study, apply, and advance scientific knowledge, maintain a commitment to medical education, make relevant information available to patients, colleagues, and the public, obtain consultation, and use the talents of other health professionals when indicated.

6.) A physician shall, in the provision of appropriate patient care, except in emergencies, be free to choose whom to serve, with whom to associate, and the environment in which to provide medical care.

7.) A physician shall recognize a responsibility to participate in activities contributing to the improvement of the community and the betterment of public health.

8.) A physician shall, while caring for a patient, regard responsibility to the patient as paramount.

9.) A physician shall support access to medical care for all people.

Source: Boardcertified.com




:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

this issue isnt whether mj asked for something its the fact murray did not monitor/inject it in the right way. did not have the right equipment incase anything went wrong. what is his excuse for that.gonna blame mj aswell the fact is the guy was cluelss .he didnt know how to give or treat a person with such medicine but no doubt he told mj no probs as the 150 k was more important .

if u go by that logic no drug dealer should ever be prosecuted as the drug addict asked for it
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

^^ so... what about Elvis? Where is his autopsy?
Elvis autopsy has been made public. That's how people know about the drugs Dr. Nick (who never went to jail) gave him.
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

This oath has been a standard part of a Doctors Graduation for years that is STILL common practice today..!

Medical Hippocratic Oath

(Modern Version)"The Hippocratic Oath: Modern Version". Doctors' Diaries. NOVA. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_modern.html. Retrieved 2010-02-08.

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know.

Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. "Above all, I must not play at God."

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.

May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.


:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

this issue isnt whether mj asked for something its the fact murray did not monitor/inject it in the right way. did not have the right equipment incase anything went wrong. what is his excuse for that.gonna blame mj aswell the fact is the guy was cluelss .he didnt know how to give or treat a person with such medicine but no doubt he told mj no probs as the 150 k was more important .

Exactly. My point of view on this is : even if MJ asked for propofol, even if he signed a paper saying he was aware of the risks, his death was not caused by propofol, but by the misuse of propofol (mixing it with another drug that could not be given with propofol, lack of proper injection equipment, lack of monitoring, lack of ressucitation equipement).

Here in France, doctors make you sign papers before risky procedures, when possible. It doesn't mean they are allowed to use dirty needles, dirty scalpels, etc.... They are supposed to take all necessary measures, and if, only if, they take all necessary measures to ensure the procedure , then if it fails, then they are not liable.

According to the anaesthesit report in the autopsy, Murray did not make sure propofol was administered the right way, and he gave another benzo just before, which he shouldn't have done. The report says you can't have these two drugs in your system at the same time.
Wether MJ asked for it or not is irrelevant IMO.
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

I really wasnt happy with how weak the judge came across. And vague too.
The directions the judge gave regarding what medications Murray is allowed to administer wasn't made clear which for a judge it should be. The judge first said that Murray wasnt allowed to administer sedatives. Well sedatives and anaesthesia are 2 different things. The judge mentioned that his wife is a doctor so he is familiar with medications. Murray's lawyer also didn't understand the judges direction and asked him to clarify it again. Again the judge answered vague and responded that if Murray needed to numb the skin with an anaesthetic that would be ok, but no sedatives. WTF?? Murray's lawyer also still wasnt clear with what the judge was requesting and asked if he meant anti-anxiety pills as well as anaesthetic. Finally the judge responded with more clarity saying not those sort of sedatives but anything that would knock you out, anything you would use for an operation. A judge should be more clear than that if Murray's own lawyer doesnt understand the judges request, how is Murray?
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

this issue isnt whether mj asked for something its the fact murray did not monitor/inject it in the right way. did not have the right equipment incase anything went wrong. what is his excuse for that.gonna blame mj aswell the fact is the guy was cluelss .he didnt know how to give or treat a person with such medicine but no doubt he told mj no probs as the 150 k was more important .

if u go by that logic no drug dealer should ever be prosecuted as the drug addict asked for it

Exactly. All these people saying 'Murray's not to blame, Michael asked for it' needs to read up on medical ethics and the Hippocratic Oath. Under no circumstances should a doctor value money over what is best for their patient. I have had a few arguments with people over this and as soon as I say 'so under your logic its ok to walk into my GP's office and say, hey I want some Valium. I'll give you money if you give it to me. Are you saying that because I asked for it this doctor should say ok then here you go.' They soon shut up when I say that. Murray decided that $150k was more important than being negligent and reckless with someone's life. Murray is to blame and Murray should be held accountable.
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

^^ Very well said.
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

What are you talking about, Elvis autopsy reports have been released to the public as well as the cause of death. Also Elvis death took place in Memphis, Tennessee and not California, so there may be a difference in the laws. And keep in mind that Elvis died over 30 years ago, so maybe the laws were different back then. And Elvis death wasn't deemed a crime so it should be accessible to the public. Most cities and states have a place where people can go to retrieve records involving the death of a person.

I have never read Elvis autopsy cos I havent found that)..., is there the autopsy online, the original document?
http://elvis-presley-death.beep.com/
http://www.king-elvis-presley.de/html/death-elvis-autopsy.html
http://oldies.about.com/od/elvisdeathfaq/f/elvisdeath.htm
 
Re: Michael Jackson:US & California Law, Questions, Discussion

I have never read Elvis autopsy cos I havent found that)..., is there the autopsy online, the original document?
When Elvis died, there wasn't a such thing as an internet, so I don't know. But I think you can probably look for Memphis, TN death records at someplace such as The Bureau Of Vital Statistics or some other local government agency. But I think you actually have to go there, they don't give out information online. Maybe you can find some books about Elvis' death at the library.
 
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