[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

respect77;4087026 said:

PC 9103 (the 60 days statutes of limitations) is one part of the matter. Another part is equitable estoppel which is another thing that they try. Actually based on the above article the 60 days thing was not even discussed, nor Robson not knowing about the Estate. Here they seem to be totally focused on equitable estoppel. The argument about Robson being brainwashed and threatened.

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But how could any kind of e. estoppel override PC 9103?
And what is exactly the argument?
that he couldn't file before May 2013 because MJ told him they would both go to jail?

How incredibly idiotic is that???

And how is it that Robson's knowledge of the Estate wasn't even discussed when it was part of his argument? It's in his original complaint.
Now that the evidence is overwhelming that he in fact knew about it Marzano just tells the judge whatever forget about that and
focus on how horrible these allegations are, ignore the law and allow the case?

I wish this judge would be like the judge who handled Michael Egan in Hawaii.

Egan acknowledged the judge’s statements and apologized, but the exchange continued.

“So be truthful,” said the judge. “I am,” responded Egan.

“Well, no,” interjected Seabright. “You weren't. Because you said ‘nothing,’ they're doing nothing. That's not true.”

Egan then replied that he didn’t know how to file pleadings, so the law firm had helped him with that. This seems to have further angered the judge, who interrupted Egan and said, “You don't know how to get a stamp and put it on an envelope and write your return address on it and then mail it? You don't know how to do that?”

Egan conceded that he did, but said, “I'm just at a loss, I'm not an attorney.” Seabright responded, “I'm not buying this.… I'm a smart guy, I get it, and don't underestimate me.”

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/judge-scolds-hollywood-sex-accuser-742505

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he didn't tolerate this false accuser's bullshit.
He too accused someone of raping him as a child.

Him not knowing how to send a letter is about as believable as Robson's claim of not understanding what sex abuse was.

castor;4087028 said:

But how could any kind of e. estoppel override PC 9103?
And what is exactly the argument?
that he couldn't file before May 2013 because MJ told him they would both go to jail?

How incredibly idiotic is that???

And how is it that Robson's knowledge of the Estate wasn't even discussed when it was part of his argument? It's in his original complaint.
Now that the evidence is overwhelming that he in fact knew about it Marzano just tells the judge whatever forget about that and
focus on how horrible these allegations are, ignore the law and allow the case?

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Well, I agree that equitable estoppel doesn't make any sense here but that's Robson's argument. Normal statutory limitations gave him a chance to file a complaint when he claims the detrimental effects of brainwash and threats ceased in May 2012. He failed to file within those statutory limitations so why should he be given equitable estoppel? I do not understand their argument there either.

BTW going back to this a little:

Then apparently there are arguments made for equitable estoppel. His arguments are for that:

- MJ brainwashed him into believing that the acts between them were consensual;
- MJ threatened him;

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Wouldn't the first point ("MJ brainwashed him into believing that the acts between them were consensual") be rather delayed discovery and not equitable estoppel?

Egan then replied that he didn’t know how to file pleadings, so the law firm had helped him with that. This seems to have further angered the judge, who interrupted Egan and said, “You don't know how to get a stamp and put it on an envelope and write your return address on it and then mail it? You don't know how to do that?”

Egan conceded that he did, but said, “I'm just at a loss, I'm not an attorney.” Seabright responded, “I'm not buying this.… I'm a smart guy, I get it, and don't underestimate me.”

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Wow, that's tough. LOL.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

A little note : As expected - at least as I expected- judge didn't rule today but he said he would rule within few days. Given he took 2 weeks with Safechuck but states he would take less time with Robson, I'm thinking he already had a tentative ruling planned and he would go with that.

respect77;4087018 said:

TWIGGY @MJHOAXLIVE · 2 min Weitzman is grabbing the arm of the man who is opposing counsel. He sure has a big smile on his face!!

So apparently that is Gradstein, Robson's lawyer.

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:busted:

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

ivy said:

I understand that but I believe Estate's point is exactly why the judge will grant the summary judgment and dismiss the case. If this is allowed this will be an unbelievable precedent and there would be nothing to stop anyone to sue any estate decades later a person is deceased.

for a totally made up scenario - assume that someone hangs out with an unrelated kid one day before they die. the kid grows up to be 30-36 yrs old, gets married, have a kid, have an emotional breakdown and "realizes" that he was abused. if this precedent is allowed, that kid can file a sexual abuse claim 30+ yrs after the person has died. it doesn't make sense, this shouldn't be allowed.

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ivy said:

A little note : As expected - at least as I expected- judge didn't rule today but he said he would rule within few days. Given he took 2 weeks with Safechuck but states he would take less time with Robson, I'm thinking he already had a tentative ruling planned and he would go with that.

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I also think the judge is probably weighing this decision as an incredible precedent because it wouldn't just open doors, but a torrential floodgate. He probably made up his mind and needs time to be able to rule in a fashion that doesn't come back to haunt him. I'd imagine the decision is there in his head, especially since he mentioned that one time only, alleged threat

Sounds to me as if the 'only' thing left is to consult a couple 50 pound books explain his decision thoroughly.

Judges easily postpone something for months at a time, a few days on the other hand makes me hopeful.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

InvincibleTal said:

:busted:

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You'd be shocked how attorneys and politicians can turn their so called dislike on and off. Usually when the camera blinks red the opponent is the moral equivalent to Satan, and when the Judges enters the room. And right after that it's lunchtime. See it all the time.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:

Wouldn't the first point ("MJ brainwashed him into believing that the acts between them were consensual") be rather delayed discovery and not equitable estoppel?

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It would be but since he say that he did discover in May 2012 and still didn't file until May 2013 I still don't see how he wants to explain that one year
with e. estoppel especially since earlier he tried to explain it by claiming that he didn't know about the Estate.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So if the judge grants the estate motion, the liars wont be able to file a late credit claim , right? They said they would continue with suing MJ's companies ? How would that work?

By the way, did safe**** claim that MJ threatened him as well?

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

castor said:

It would be but since he say that he did discover in May 2012 and still didn't file until May 2013 I still don't see how he wants to explain that one year
with e. estoppel especially since earlier he tried to explain it by claiming that he didn't know about the Estate.

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dont forget he admitted he told friends and family in September 2012 about his "new reality" but asked them not to reveal what he told them

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Soundmind said:

So if the judge grants the estate motion, the liars wont be able to file a late credit claim , right? They said they would continue with suing MJ's companies ? How would that work?
...

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I'd imagine simply not at all. Imagine trying to find another precedent that allows you to suit the pants off anyone in the periphery.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Soundmind said:

So if the judge grants the estate motion, the liars wont be able to file a late credit claim , right? They said they would continue with suing MJ's companies ? How would that work?

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Safechuck's case won't be decided until June. The Estate didn't go for summary judgement there but demurrer.
I don't see how the judge would allow Robson's probate claim but allow Safehuck's or vice versa.
If one goes down so does the other.

Yes Robson still would sue the companies. He also said that he would sue Branca and McClain too!
Estate filed demurrer in that case, basically Robson claims that people in those companies were responsible for his abuse because they knew or had reason to know that MJ abused him and did nothing or
even helped arrange meetings between Robsons and MJ.
Of course it's BS since his mother was primarly responsible for those meetings and she was always with him in Neverland except one occasion in 1993 when Robson was there with the Culkins and the Chandlers
not to mention all three Robsons had been adamant that MJ was innocent.

The difference is that by suing the companies Robson is suing living people, in a rational world he should prove that any of them in fact knew about the abuse but my concern is that Beckloff will make a political decision, not allow the probate claim but allow the lawsuit against the companies even if Robson's argument is BS and full of holes.

Soundmind said:

By the way, did safe**** claim that MJ threatened him as well?

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He claims that MJ brainwashed him into believing that the sex was his idea and it was love and yes he intimidated him somehow by calling him twice a year and asking him about his sex life and promising to do something great together.
How in the world would any of those be threats even if they had happened is anyone's guess.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Soundmind said:

So if the judge grants the estate motion, the liars wont be able to file a late credit claim , right? They said they would continue with suing MJ's companies ? How would that work?

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Well, that's what Gradstein said acc. to the article so I guess that's how it works: the civil suit with the companies still could go on.

By the way, did safe**** claim that MJ threatened him as well?

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He did. On top of the whole "we both go to jail" think he alleges MJ threatened him in 2005 that his life "would be over" (never specifies what it would mean). Since Safechuck did not have a close friendship with MJ until his death he has more room to allege threats and indimidation than Robson, but even in his case I cannot see how it could work. Safechuck's allegation is that he realized he was abused/it was wrong/it was abuse in May 2013 when he saw Robson. He went to Robson's lawyers in October 2013 but he only filed in May 2014. So he too is out of all statutes. And I cannot see in this case either how equitable estoppel would work.

Re: Wade Robson / James Safechuck Case - Creditor/civil claim against MJ Estate ( NEWS ONLY)

So the judge should have a decision in a few days? Wade is such a liar and this judge should've given his decision today.. He is getting on my nerves. Glad to hear this' Steinsapir said that if the dismissal motion is denied, the estate may seek relief from the 2nd District Court of Appeal' I highly doubt Beckloff wants any decision of his reversed on appeal. He should do the right thing and dismiss this mess.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Accepting a claim this late would be bad news for everyone's estate. Imagining suing EPE for something you said happened in the 60s. Or suing the estate of Marilyn Monroe for something that happened in the fifties. No one wants that

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Regardless of what the judge's reason were, I agree this has gone on too long. This has been one huge mess since day one, actually for the last 20 years. This seriously needs to end. As Robert Sanger said "How many times does a man have to exonerated to be exonerated?".

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Does anyone know if Norma Staikos is still alive and if so where she lives?
Did she go back to Greece?

Just re-read Robson's complaint and frankly I don't understand how supposedly great lawyers managed to shoot themselves in the foot
with stuff like this:

Plantiff did not believe or understand that he had been sexually abused.
Plaintiff, as most victims, loved DECEDENT unconditionally as a father and mentor and did not want anything harmful to happen to him.

and later


Plantiff has lived MOST OF HIS LIFE in unspeakable shame, guilt and denial as a result of DECEDENT's wrongdoing.

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How could he spent most of his life in shame, guilt and denial when he didn't believe or understood that he was abused?
He was ashamed of what? The non-abuse?

52. On each occasion Plaintiff did not consent to DECEDENT's conduct.

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Then how could he believe it was consensual?

Also noticed that after 1991 there are no dates at all.
And if we take what Joy Robson said in 2005 that she remembered only 4 occasions in 17 years when they were in Neverland with MJ
it's hard to see how that would be enough for a real pedophile.
What the heck was he doing between those 4 occasions?

While apparently we are supposed to believe that he could go without sex for months
he supposedly abused Robson each and ever time they were together, every single day for two weeks and then six weeks.
then nothing for months or years.

This is absurd. Someone who is sexually inactive - and they believe he was only sexually active with boys -
would not suddenly become so horny as to wanting sex every single day for six weeks!
It's just ridiculous.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I believe WR is still brainwashed, if he thinks he will succeed. Still I wait with bated breath.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

castor said:

Also noticed that after 1991 there are no dates at all.
And if we take what Joy Robson said in 2005 that she remembered only 4 occasions in 17 years when they were in Neverland with MJ
it's hard to see how that would be enough for a real pedophile.
What the heck was he doing between those 4 occasions?

While apparently we are supposed to believe that he could go without sex for months
he supposedly abused Robson each and ever time they were together, every single day for two weeks and then six weeks.
then nothing for months or years.

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Yes, I agree. When I re-read a bit the Robsons' testimony from 2005 what struck me was that actually MJ did not even spend that much time with them. It was mostly a couple of days vacation once or twice a year. Michael was not some sort of constant presence in Wade's life. Joy even testified in 2005 that during the shooting of Jam they hardly even met Michael outside of the set and they did not even know in which hotel he stayed. He did not seem to be madly "in love" with Wade to me.

All this makes Robson's whole narrative all the less believable. For a boy to put up with horrible acts like anal rape the adult doing these acts has to have some sort of very strong control and constant grip on the boy to make sure he would not slip and to make sure that his brainwash is constantly kept up. Wade is trying to establish that kind of psychological grip by saying MJ was "his God/idol" etc. but that is not too convincing with the type of acts he alleges.

And this is the guy who alleges the most in terms of how far MJ allegedly went regarding sexual acts. So that would mean that he should have had some sort of special status in Michael's life. He should have been the closest to him in terms of time spent together, he should have been the one that MJ kept a close control on, by keeping him around all the time etc. Instead they just visited him on a couple of occasions over the years.

And someone pointed out to me this and it's true: the Robsons claim that Robson's father who committed suicide at the end of the 90s, was a victim of child sexual abuse when he was a kid. So how on Earth then Robson did not know it was wrong? Not just illegal but wrong and harmful?

And if Robson enjoyed being anally raped so much how on Earth he did not turn out to be gay or sexually confused in any other way - or god forbid a pedophile? Since he thought that was the normal, loving, natural thing that was on top of everything very enjoyable. Instead he went chasing Britney Spears and married Amanda.

None of it makes any sense.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Hey guys, I'm reading some tweets from MJ fans and came across one that says Wade claim is for 1.62 billion.
Is that for real or what did I miss?

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Bubs said:

Hey guys, I'm reading some tweets from MJ fans and came across one that says Wade claim is for 1.62 billion.
Is that for real or what did I miss?

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That comes from some tabloid and no, he has not officially stated such a number.

In his complaint there is no sum named, but he makes it clear he wants much without saying a sum:











So he wants the Estate to pay puntitive damages and compensatory damages for him failing to become the international superstar he was destined to become in his mind and he wants them to compensate him for past lost jobs as well. But it's not about money... :smilerolleyes:

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:

Yes, I agree. When I re-read a bit the Robsons' testimony from 2005 what struck me was that actually MJ did not even spend that much time with them. It was mostly a couple of days vacation once or twice a year. Michael was not some sort of constant presence in Wade's life.

For a boy to put up with horrible acts like anal rape the adult doing these acts has to have some sort of very strong control and constant grip on the boy to make sure he would not slip and to make sure that his brainwash is constantly kept up.

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I have been wondering about this a lot, how close were Michael and Wade even? And not just between '90-'97, but also in the years after that? Since Wade still felt compelled to 'lie' for Michael in court.. the story as he's trying to tell it, that Michael had him believe what they had was a loving, sexual relationship and that there's nothing wrong with that, can only really work if the abuser is a pretty constant factor in your life. To make someone actually believe something like this you have to constantly be there to fill their mind with your thoughts and to shelter them from everything they see around them, that could make them believe otherwise.
I can't believe that if they hardly saw or spoke to each other in the years after the alleged abuse, and Wade was living his own life away from Michael, had actual consensual sex with women etc. his eyes would not have been opened one bit..? How can years of being away from your abuser and not being abused anymore (and experiencing sex as it should be) not make the 'grip' Michael supposedly had on him fade? He says he still desperately wanted to be his friend.. I can believe that a confused child who is experiencing abuse, but also loves their abuser, will sometimes feel like that. But a grown man, almost 10 years of no 'abuse' later, who didn't even see him that much anyway? How did he still believe in their 'relationship' that much? I don't get it.. And that he still did not think there was anything wrong with what happened, despite everything going on, is even less believable.

respect77 said:

So he wants the Estate to pay puntitive damages and compensatory damages for him failing to become the international superstar he was destined to become in his mind and he wants them to compensate him for past lost jobs as well. But it's not about money... :smilerolleyes:

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I still wonder why they're not naming a specific amount but rather ask for what the 'court deems just and appropriate'? Couldn't that mean they end up with less than what they hoped for? Or are they just trying to avoid looking 'greedy'?

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Lil said:

I have been wondering about this a lot, how close were Michael and Wade even? And not just between '90-'97, but also in the years after that?

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I agree.




I guess MJ had magic powers to keep both Robson and Safechuck in check and make them keep their secret by just talking to them on the phone once or twice a year...


He is taking leafs out of textbooks about sexual abuse, but he does not realize how much of it does not work well with his own circumstances. Yes, there are abuse victims who bury the abuse for decades before they are able to talk about it but none of them have circusmances that we have in this case.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

A little bit ott, but this is what I was thinking:

I hope this is what judge says to Robson in next few days:


and for Robson request for money, the estate can give him these to play with

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Lil said:

I still wonder why they're not naming a specific amount but rather ask for what the 'court deems just and appropriate'? Couldn't that mean they end up with less than what they hoped for? Or are they just trying to avoid looking 'greedy'?

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I think it's the latter and probably also strategic. But when you read all the stuff they list: how much Robson would have become an international superstar if not for the alleged abuse (ridiculous), what a fantastic, unparallelled talent he was (ridiculous) and now that's all over because of MJ (ridiculous), how much he needs to be compensated for lost past and future job opportunities - well, that would translate into a LOT of money in compensatory damages if the Jury accepted their claims.

Plus puntitive damages. Which is I think one of the reasons why he went so overboard with the type and amount of acts he alleges. I imagine that puntitive damages depend on the seriousness of an alleged offense. There is a Penal Code attached to each offense - ie. the amount of years an offender would get in prison if it was a criminal trial. The more brutal an act is, the higher the punishment is. So of course it is the highest in case of anal rape. I imagine in case of a civil trial the higher Penal Code punishment translates into the more money awarded. Which is IMO why he claims anal rape (partly, another reason is the shock value for the media to pick it up) and which is why he claims that on each and every occasion they were alone in a room MJ molested him. Even on the first night they spent in a room. He is being greedy and trying to press the most money possible out of it.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Right after Michael died is when Roberson's so called hot career began to tail off. He was replaced on the Britney Spears tour with Jamie King He lost his gig on so you think you can dance. And was down to teaching dance classes I believe. But all of that is Michael's fault I guess

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This is definitely ott, but I thought we could use some laughs while waiting judge to kick this case out, and wonder the world of rich and famous.

"Mila Kunis ?has nice breasts ... problem is, she stole them along with other chicken parts, this according to a new lawsuit filed by a woman who claims to have been her best Ukrainian friend.
Kristina Karo claims 25 years ago she was in first grade with Mila in the Ukraine and they were inseparable. But Kristina says Mila had chicken envy -- specifically a chicken which answered to the name Doggie. Kristina alleges in her lawsuit she loved Doggie like a dog, and so did Mila, who would come to her house and play with the little clucker.
But one day Doggie disappeared, and Kristina says Mila confessed that she stole it, saying, "Kristina, you can have any other chicken as a pet, you have a whole chicken farm."
Kristina says in her lawsuit she became an emotional wreck and went into therapy.
Years passed, Mila moved to L.A. and became a big star. Kristina also eventually moved to L.A. to pursue a singing career. But the proximity brought back all the bad memories, and Kristina says the visions of Doggie being stolen by her former best friend threw her right back into therapy.
Kristina now needs shrink money, and a little extra for all the emotional distress ... in all, $5k.
And Kristina says Mila's conduct has prevented her from pursuing the American dream.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of a happy meal."

It is not just Michael that has all sort of idiots looking for money, but seemingly it can be anyone who has money. That going to therapy thingy seems to be very popular in every lawsuits.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Wade already experienced the prime of his career more than a decade ago and it pretty much started to fade before Michael passed. He already exceeded his potential. Did not become a global superstar. I've never heard choreographers that became global superstars and made billions anyway. Is Travis anywhere near a billionaire?

It just occurred to me that Michael never collaborated with Wade as a choreographer.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Bubs said:

A little bit ott, but this is what I was thinking:

I hope this is what judge says to Robson in next few days:

and for Robson request for money, the estate can give him these to play with

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First really good laugh I've had in awhile.

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

InvincibleTal said:

Wade already experienced the prime of his career more than a decade ago and it pretty much started to fade before Michael passed. He already exceeded his potential. Did not become a global superstar. I've never heard choreographers that became global superstars and made billions anyway. Is Travis anywhere near a billionaire?

It just occurred to me that Michael never collaborated with Wade as a choreographer.

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That is something that I think about very often. Michael pretty much used the same people such as Travis Payne and Kenny Ortega. But he never went anywhere near Wade not even hiring him to dance on a tour