Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

dmehta said:

Well claiming he abused one of his own children just proves how low these people will go. I think most people will see right through that.

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And see, that is even more telling this is lies? How would anyone know that? Who was there to see the that happen to one of his kids when he was under investigation? Which one? See, this of this is lies.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Look at this tweet, in another tweet she admits she was no 'evidence' really but very similar stories of grooming
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"from the reactions I heard walking out of the theater, many found themselves saying, "it seems there was no way he wasn't doing these things. all of the stories are so similar"



Can you believe this shit? So they have similar stories so that means he must have been guilty!!

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:

Absolutely. Except for the mindless souls that gave these two shits a standing ovation. Those sure will believe it. I'm hoping that the mainstream media, the actual media won't even cover this. Have news in the USA, UK, etc been bringing this up at all? Because if not, that would be a damn, damn good thing.

Again, I didn't hear my stepfather about anything and he notified me of Robson on the news years ago. Of course this doesn't necessarily include a lot of websites, so I guess it's definitely possible a lot of people in Holland will know about it by now. But hopefully they won't cover any of that tabloid filth.

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The media does want to shift the attention to MJ again. Many of them have been exposed by @metoo, they want everything to go back to MJ again like the old days.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

terrell said:

Who cares if they are doing a standing ovations. Who is going to sit down. That is typical at an event. STILL and fans have to keep this in perspective. We have the goods on these guys if this go futher like the RKelly doc. It will be dissected if it goes further.

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That's true, we have tons and tons of facts. The question is, will these people, like those that attended care to read all of that? I doubt it. A doc they may want to give a chance and watch it.

I haven't watched the R Kelly doc, but what do you mean with if it goes further?

Unfortunately, what is so potentially damaging about this is accusations are being made on film. That’s never really been done before, even back during the trial and the ‘93 allegations. Jordan and Gavin never made accusations on camera.

How convenient the director looked into the 1993 and 2003 case but didn’t really include it in the film because he thought Safechuck and Robson’s stories were just so compelling he wanted to focus on them......convenient 🤔

L.T.D;4238011 said:

How convenient the director looked into the 1993 and 2003 case but didn’t really include it in the film because he thought Safechuck and Robson’s stories were just so compelling he wanted to focus on them......convenient 樂

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Where did you hear that? Was it part of the Q&A?

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

SmoothGangsta said:

I honestly fear the worst now tbh. I said that people are just gonna believe this shit and it's happening.

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Only to those who already want to believe it. It is going to be ok because we have the facts on our side. REMEMBER, these men are talking and of course some people are going to listen but I do NOT believe everyone there believe these fools unless they just want to.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the stuff they say in the doc totally contradicts what they have previously said. Once the fans have examined this doc, I'm fairly sure a few fans will give it a watch so that they can debunk a lot of stuff here with actual facts and evidence like Twitter posts or anything written/said previously by these two.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

terrell said:

Only to those who already want to believe it. It is going to be ok because we have the facts on our side. REMEMBER, these men are talking and of course some people are going to listen but I do NOT believe everyone there believe these fools unless they just want to.

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read the twitter responses of those who are watching.. it's very negative towards Mike!

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:

Seriously, anyone that is already through with it for today, don't check the TMZ link. The "details" are really bad. This actually is the first time one of his own children is brought up and with claims that he was abusing one of them. The nerve on these Robson and Safechuck......

Standing ovation? Tears? I am not watching any of that Q&A, **** this so damn much.

@Terrell

You're right about that, absolutely. I shouldn't let it get the best of me. So far it doesn't seem to have reached actual news (at least not in Holland) cause my stepfather would have brought it up for damn sure.

This "doc" was the perfect opportunity for these vermin from tabloids to do what they do best, what they have been missing. Finally being able to shit on Mike again.

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And even if it reaches the news, WE CAME DOWN IT DOWN and the real news will have to show even what they have against these guys to show their bull. There are people even in the media (I am not talking about tabloids papers, sites, etc). We have them on FILM lying. Look at Wade in testimony IN COURT and even at the age of 13 and he looked creditable and did a great job under cross. See NONE of this is being talked about there. Again, KEEP in perspective.

KOPV;4238015 said:

read the twitter responses of those who are watching.. it's very negative towards Mike!

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Well what do you expect? It features two men who claim they were sexually abused as children. To the audience - who won’t have a clue about the context, the history, the lawsuits for money, the previous denials and gushing praise for the man who allegedly abused them - this will sound “devastating”. However, it is a one sided hatchet job.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Let's see how the estate will respond assuming they will respond of course.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

KOPV said:

read the twitter responses of those who are watching.. it's very negative towards Mike!

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Of course it is going to be. These are liars trying to play up their lies to get money. That is what liars do.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

^ yeah and that speaks for the general public.. those people sitting in those seats are largely the 'everyday' person.. that is hard to combat against

dmehta;4238012 said:

Where did you hear that? Was it part of the Q&A?

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Yep, he literally said he looked into it and had interviews with prosecutors, but left it out to focus on Safechuck and Robson because their stories were so compelling. 🤦*♂️More like he wanted a more lob sided ‘documentary’ and he knew that including facts from the trial would hurt their credibility.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:

This actually is the first time one of his own children is brought up and with claims that he was abusing one of them.

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dmehta said:

Well claiming he abused one of his own children just proves how low these people will go.

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terrell said:

Who was there to see the that happen to one of his kids when he was under investigation? Which one? See, this of this is lies.

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He never said that, you didn't read correctly.

Here's what TMZ reports : "At one point, Wade breaks down in tears describing having visions of Michael abusing his own kid." i.e. Robson, when he became a father, had visions of MJ abusing Robson's kid. This is not new, Robson already said that on TV.

Please verify what you quote, before repeating it over and over. As MJ fans, you should know that.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Everyone is talking about how similar their stories to each other and that's what make them come across very credible. Like seriously! How about they are copy past from each other and from old cases? But that would be too sensible

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Soundmind said:

Look at this tweet, in another tweet she admits she was no 'evidence' really but very similar stories of grooming
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"from the reactions I heard walking out of the theater, many found themselves saying, "it seems there was no way he wasn't doing these things. all of the stories are so similar"



Can you believe this shit? So they have similar stories so that means he must have been guilty!!

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Of course. These guys defended Jackson all their lives and read what others lie about. Plus, they have a lawyer who you can believe is helping them. To that person, what person who is even groom DEFENDS the person for YEARS even when he is constant asked did anything happen to you let alone GOING TO COURT even as a GROWN MAN to defended UNDER OATH? NONE. So her comment is STUPID. MJ also was NOT a family who these people had to deal with.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Soundmind said:

Everyone is talking about how similar their stories to each other and that's what make them come across very credible. Like seriously! How about they are copy past from each other and from old cases? But that would be too sensible

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heck, I know the claims. By that standard, I can accused MJ.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

JCO8 said:

He never said that, you didn't read correctly.

Here's what TMZ reports : "At one point, Wade breaks down in tears describing having visions of Michael abusing his own kid."
i.e. Robson, when he became a father, had visions of MJ abusing Robson's kid.

Please verify what you quote, before repeating it over and over. As MJ fans, you should know that.

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Did not he claim that he was terrified of abusing his own kid? Now it is MJ doing it to his kid! evolving memory I see

L.T.D;4238021 said:

Yep, he literally said he looked into it and had interviews with prosecutors, but left it out to focus on Safechuck and Robson because their stories were so compelling. 臘*♂️More like he wanted a more lob sided ‘documentary’ and he knew that including facts from the trial would hurt their credibility.

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Wow ok, so very convenient! I can’t bring myself to watch the Q&A, especially seeing those fake tears rolling down their faces. Anything else interesting come out if it?

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

@JCO8

You're right, my bad. I did take a real quick look and was already quite fired up to begin with. I read that wrong.

dmehta;4238027 said:

Wow ok, so very convenient! I can’t bring myself to watch the Q&A, especially seeing those fake tears rolling down their faces. Anything else interesting come out if it?

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And that is a dead giveaway from a guy who defended a man since he was 13 even after death. heck, I can make myself cry when it is something I want. ask my boyfriend.

So, naturally everyone here is feeling angry, dejected, worried etc. However, we have to keep grounded and just hope that this will pass. We’ve been through far worse times as fans (2003-2005 was awful), and post ‘93/settlement were also dark days.

We have the truth and bucket loads of evidence on our side.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

terrell said:

Of course. These guys defended Jackson all their lives and read what others lie about. Plus, they have a lawyer who you can believe is helping them. To that person, what person who is even groom DEFENDS the person for YEARS even when he is constant asked did anything happen to you let alone GOING TO COURT even as a GROWN MAN to defended UNDER OATH? NONE. So her comment is STUPID. MJ also was NOT a family who these people had to deal with.

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They are saying that this documentary is so powerful in explaining to what length victims would go to protect their abusers and be in denial about their abuse. Of course for those who watched that doc to reach such conclusion one must assume that they are indeed victims. Because it does seem that they are accepting everything they have shown at face value and drawing wild conclusions from it. So instead of questioning why these two have denied any wrong doing for decades, now that's no longer an issue because this film is presented as the ultimate evidence of the extreme length victims could go to protect their abusers. Insane.

"They are very credible" because "they have very similar stories". Really stupid argument Sneddon's tactics all over again: "look at the full picture jurors he is weird he dangled his baby over the balcony, he has 6 employees witnessing him molest kids, Gavins said so, he is a cancer survivor, Star said this, Blanca said that' but details! no need to pay attention to details at all because once you do everything crumbles. The media left the court room in 2005 after the taped interview of Gavin was played convinced that MJ did it and according to everyone who watched gavin was so believable and mj was doomed. One issue though he told a story in that interview different than the one he told on the stand and the jurors picked on that despite the judge instructions to "only pay attention to his demeanour". His demeanour was of a victim apparently but he was a liar and the jurors did not need to look anywhere except at his own testimony to reach that conclusion. But the jurors were seekers of the truth not media pundits with an agenda who went there for one reason and one reason only and that is to confirm what they have already believed. guilty

Soundmind;4238031 said:

They are saying that this documentary is so powerful in explaining to what length victims would go to protect their abusers and be in denial about their abuse. Of course for those who watched that doc to reach such conclusion one must assume that they are indeed victims. Because it does seem that they are accepting everything they have shown at face value and drawing wild conclusions from it. So instead of questioning why these two have denied any wrong doing for decades, now that's no longer an issue because this film is presented as the ultimate evidence of the extreme length victims could go to protect their abusers. Insane

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It’s one thing to be in denial about your abuse and stay quiet about it, but it’s quite another testify in defence of your abuser, perform in tributes to him and claim he is the reason you believe “in the pure goodness of humankind”.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:

That's true, we have tons and tons of facts. The question is, will these people, like those that attended care to read all of that? I doubt it. A doc they may want to give a chance and watch it.

I haven't watched the R Kelly doc, but what do you mean with if it goes further?

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RKelly case was all over the place. In his doc, there was very little to debate against. Rkelly has NeVER did a sit down interview (when asked, RKelly leaves). R Kelly that was his brother on the tape; the brother said it was Rkelly (see the twists and turns), if it is not neither of them, who is the guy. His marriage to AAlayah did happen (that is why RKelly NEVER proved it was a fake. He could not). RKelly was given a pass unlike MJ who had the WORLD investigating him. With MJ, WE have TAPE of his accusers lying and changing stories, etc.

dmehta;4238030 said:

So, naturally everyone here is feeling angry, dejected, worried etc. However, we have to keep grounded and just hope that this will pass. We’ve been through far worse times as fans (2003-2005 was awful), and post ‘93/settlement were also dark days.

We have the truth and bucket loads of evidence on our side.

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I agree. We've been through worse back then. Unfortunately, once someone is accused of something, true or false, it will stick, that's the hard part. These are TABLOIDS, they feed unto the negativity every day. I don't feed into it.

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Soundmind said:

They are saying that this documentary is so powerful in explaining to what length victims would go to protect their abusers and be in denial about their abuse. Of course for those who watched that doc to reach such conclusion one must assume that they are indeed victims. Because it does seem that they are accepting everything they have shown at face value and drawing wild conclusions from it. So instead of questioning why these two have denied any wrong doing for decades, now that's no longer an issue because this film is presented as the ultimate evidence of the extreme length victims could go to protect their abusers. Insane

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These guys do NOYT fit into that box. (1). MJ was NOT a family member who they had to deal with. (2) These guys were always asked about MJ and if he abused them. (3) Going to court and testifying UNDEDR OATH TWICE and PRAISING him even AFTER DEATH. (4) MJ went to trial and was given NO special treatment. See, if this doc goes further, all of this will have to be brought out against these guys. And look, they LOST TWO civil suits and now the come to a place like SUNDANCE to talk. No one with good thinking brain will buy this.