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How Many Unreleased Songs are Complete Enough for a Release?

Best of joy, is considered a finished vocal.. and there are will.i.am tracks that are complete.. the difficulty around songs is not just what was "finished" but after the last leaks when Michael was alive he did not let producers keep vocals. Michael kept the vocal track while producers kept the instramental.. it would stay this way til fully complete! So even if there is a full vocal but Michael never got with the producer to combine the two tracks - than we may never get our hands on a "complete" version
 
AlwaysThere said:
I cannot for the life of me remember where I heard this, but someone once told me they had gone to an Estate-funded fan event (likely for either Bad 25 or Xscape) and John Branca had said they were looking to reissue This Is It with new footage to commemorate the 10 year anniversary. Take that with a grain of salt, but I would absolutely love that.
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This turned out to be partially true.
 
To me that is blasphemy. Why would they want to commemorate the 10th anniversary of planned concert series where he actually died? I understand releasing This Is It but a 10th Anniversary? That's crazy to me
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
To me that is blasphemy. Why would they want to commemorate the 10th anniversary of planned concert series where he actually died? I understand releasing This Is It but a 10th Anniversary? That's crazy to me
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Simply because This Is It movie and soundtrack album were extremely successful and they saw the potential to make even more money from it for the 10th anniversary. The Estate are all about the money, that much is very clear.
 
Nite Line said:
Simply because This Is It movie and soundtrack album were extremely successful and they saw the potential to make even more money from it for the 10th anniversary. The Estate are all about the money, that much is very clear.
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Of course it's about money. The primary objectives of any deceased Estate are to generate income, pay off debts/creditors and liquidate/disperse assets to the heirs. The tax bill isn't going to pay itself and the ongoing lawsuits are not cheap, either. I don't know why this simple fact is so difficult to understand.
 
Mikky Dee said:
Of course it's about money. The primary objectives of any deceased Estate are to generate income, pay off debts/creditors and liquidate/disperse assets to the heirs. The tax bill isn't going to pay itself and the ongoing lawsuits are not cheap, either. I don't know why this simple fact is so difficult to understand.
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I think there is a distinction between it being about money and being ALL about money, as nite line put it. I think any reasonable person understands that the estate is a business and a business needs to thrive and make money, we get it. But the money shouldn't be all that they're aiming for. They should also preserve the artists legacy which MJ spent his entire life building and also release stuff while maintaining some level of integrity.
 
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Themidwestcowboy said:
I think there is a distinction between it being about money and being ALL about money, as nite line put it. I think any reasonable person understands that the estate is a business and a business needs to thrive and make money, we get it. But the money shouldn't be all that they're aiming for. They should also preserve the artists legacy which MJ spent his entire life building and also release stuff while maintaining some level of integrity.
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I agree that they should preserve the artist's legacy. In my opinion, the best way to do that is to defend him, his image and his name, against charlitans and liars in the courts....which they are doing. Another part of that is to focus on the body of work he produced when he was alive and bring that to new audiences...new generations...on a global scale in creative ways that embrace new technology.
 
There's also that song that apparently featured Snoop Dogg. Wonder if that one is complete enough for release.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
That would be the Hurricane Katrina relief song.
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Yup, that's "I Have This Dream." There was a recording session in Los Angeles on 1 November 2005 that James Ingram and the O'Jays were at; I believe Snoop was also there, but I may be wrong. Michael produced over the phone.

John Barnes said that, of all the songs that they worked on together, that's the one he'd most like to see released. So clearly it's finished in some capacity. I imagine getting permission from all the involved artists would be damn near impossible though, so hopefully there's a solo MJ vocal that they could drop. God knows that, where we are as a society right now, we could use a song like that.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Yup, that's "I Have This Dream."
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Are you sure that's the title?

Wasn't it ''From The Bottom Of My Heart''?

As far as I know ''I Have This Dream'' was a song from the earlier 'Invincible' sessions (1999) that Michael co-wrote with Carol Bayer Sager and David Foster and was meant to be for the new millennium.
 
dethorro said:
Are you sure that's the title?

Wasn't it ''From The Bottom Of My Heart''?

As far as I know ''I Have This Dream'' was a song from the earlier 'Invincible' sessions (1999) that Michael co-wrote with Carol Bayer Sager and David Foster and was meant to be for the new millennium.
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It is indeed "I Have This Dream!" There are two songs with the same title -- one from 1999 and another from 2005.

"Bottom of My Heart" is a later version of the 2005 version of "I Have This Dream."

It's confusing, I know :p
 
Eddlicious;4278655 said:
There's also that song that apparently featured Snoop Dogg. Wonder if that one is complete enough for release.
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Themidwestcowboy;4278784 said:
That would be the Hurricane Katrina relief song.
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AlwaysThere;4278794 said:
Yup, that's "I Have This Dream." There was a recording session in Los Angeles on 1 November 2005 that James Ingram and the O'Jays were at; I believe Snoop was also there, but I may be wrong. Michael produced over the phone.

John Barnes said that, of all the songs that they worked on together, that's the one he'd most like to see released. So clearly it's finished in some capacity. I imagine getting permission from all the involved artists would be damn near impossible though, so hopefully there's a solo MJ vocal that they could drop. God knows that, where we are as a society right now, we could use a song like that.
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dethorro;4278797 said:
Are you sure that's the title?

Wasn't it ''From The Bottom Of My Heart''?

As far as I know ''I Have This Dream'' was a song from the earlier 'Invincible' sessions (1999) that Michael co-wrote with Carol Bayer Sager and David Foster and was meant to be for the new millennium.
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AlwaysThere;4278971 said:
It is indeed "I Have This Dream!" There are two songs with the same title -- one from 1999 and another from 2005.

"Bottom of My Heart" is a later version of the 2005 version of "I Have This Dream."

It's confusing, I know :p
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‘I Have This Dream’ was supposed to make the ‘Invincible’ album’ and is definitely complete enough for a release now.

‘I Have This Dream’ became actually a nearly complete song even during the ‘Invincible’ sessions because it was a subject of a song-writing contest (winners would add their additional lyrics to the song) organized by Tonos Entertainment and AOL Music, so the song had to be finished and be recorded at that time.

‘From The Bottom Of My Heart’ is just a version of ‘I Have This Dream’ but with the addition of vocals from numerous guest vocalists.

‘From The Bottom Of My Heart’ is also complete enough for a release now (just lacks vocals from few guest vocalists who eventually did not contribute their vocals to the song).

Prince Abdullah heard a nearly complete version of that ‘From The Bottom Of My Heart’ song and he liked it so much that he was about to release it through his Two Seas label (in early 2006).

But keep in mind that ‘From The Bottom Of My Heart’ has changed its title (and exists with a different title) so as to avoid confusion with Stevie Wonder’s song with the same title (from his ‘A Time 2 Love’ album released in 2005).
 
mj_frenzy;4279087 said:
‘I Have This Dream’ was supposed to make the ‘Invincible’ album’ and is definitely complete enough for a release now.

‘I Have This Dream’ became actually a nearly complete song even during the ‘Invincible’ sessions because it was a subject of a song-writing contest (winners would add their additional lyrics to the song) organized by Tonos Entertainment and AOL Music, so the song had to be finished and be recorded at that time.

‘From The Bottom Of My Heart’ is just a version of ‘I Have This Dream’ but with the addition of vocals from numerous guest vocalists.

‘From The Bottom Of My Heart’ is also complete enough for a release now (just lacks vocals from few guest vocalists who eventually did not contribute their vocals to the song).

Prince Abdullah heard a nearly complete version of that ‘From The Bottom Of My Heart’ song and he liked it so much that he was about to release it through his Two Seas label (in early 2006).

But keep in mind that ‘From The Bottom Of My Heart’ has changed its title (and exists with a different title) so as to avoid confusion with Stevie Wonder’s song with the same title (from his ‘A Time 2 Love’ album released in 2005).
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Thank you for these informations. So ā€žI Have This Dreamā€œ; ā€žFrom the Bottom of My Heartā€œ and ā€žLight the Wayā€œ (I think thats the third songtitle) are basically one song that MJ recorded in the Late 90s. Or did he rerecord his vocals in 2005 for ā€žFrom the Bottom of My Heartā€œ? Do you Know if the Estate has the song(s) and are there are plans to release it?
 
mj_frenzy;4279087 said:
ā€˜I Have This Dreamā€™ was supposed to make the ā€˜Invincibleā€™ albumā€™ and is definitely complete enough for a release now.

ā€˜I Have This Dreamā€™ became actually a nearly complete song even during the ā€˜Invincibleā€™ sessions because it was a subject of a song-writing contest (winners would add their additional lyrics to the song) organized by Tonos Entertainment and AOL Music, so the song had to be finished and be recorded at that time.

ā€˜From The Bottom Of My Heartā€™ is just a version of ā€˜I Have This Dreamā€™ but with the addition of vocals from numerous guest vocalists.

ā€˜From The Bottom Of My Heartā€™ is also complete enough for a release now (just lacks vocals from few guest vocalists who eventually did not contribute their vocals to the song).

Prince Abdullah heard a nearly complete version of that ā€˜From The Bottom Of My Heartā€™ song and he liked it so much that he was about to release it through his Two Seas label (in early 2006).

But keep in mind that ā€˜From The Bottom Of My Heartā€™ has changed its title (and exists with a different title) so as to avoid confusion with Stevie Wonderā€™s song with the same title (from his ā€˜A Time 2 Loveā€™ album released in 2005).
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Awesome information!

Thank you mj_frenzy. Why didn't Michael eventually release this track?
 
mj_frenzy;4279087 said:
‘I Have This Dream’ became actually a nearly complete song even during the ‘Invincible’ sessions because it was a subject of a song-writing contest (winners would add their additional lyrics to the song) organized by Tonos Entertainment and AOL Music, so the song had to be finished and be recorded at that time.
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Fun (if not disappointing) story behind this:

Ric Kipp, a Nashville musician, won the contest by penning the lyrics and a bridge. Carole Bayer-Sager told him she loved his submission, but was allegedly intent on using her own lyrics in the finished song.

Kipp was flown out to Los Angeles with a $1,500 stipend from Tonos/AOL (which, curiously enough, didn't include a hotel) and waited for several days before being informed that MJ wasn't coming.

He wound up recording a version of the track with one of Faith Hill's backup singers, then went home and never heard from anyone again.
 
AlwaysThere;4279101 said:
Fun (if not disappointing) story behind this:

Ric Kipp, a Nashville musician, won the contest by penning the lyrics and a bridge. Carole Bayer-Sager told him she loved his submission, but was allegedly intent on using her own lyrics in the finished song.

Kipp was flown out to Los Angeles with a $1,500 stipend from Tonos/AOL (which, curiously enough, didn't include a hotel) and waited for several days before being informed that MJ wasn't coming.

He wound up recording a version of the track with one of Faith Hill's backup singers, then went home and never heard from anyone again.
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That is interesting, thanks.

mjfan_93;4279092 said:
Thank you for these informations. So „I Have This Dream“; „From the Bottom of My Heart“ and „Light the Way“ (I think thats the third songtitle) are basically one song that MJ recorded in the Late 90s. Or did he rerecord his vocals in 2005 for „From the Bottom of My Heart“? Do you Know if the Estate has the song(s) and are there are plans to release it?
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dethorro;4279100 said:
Awesome information!

Thank you mj_frenzy. Why didn't Michael eventually release this track?
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As far as the 2006 version of the ‘From The Bottom Of My Heart’ song (with the guest vocalists) is concerned, the song was not released because Michael Jackson eventually backed out of the deal that was signed between him and Prince Abdullah.

Although Michael Jackson was contractually obliged to deliver a brand new studio album in 2006-2007 through Two Seas label (including that song), an autobiography and a musical stage play, in the end for unspecified reasons he decided to pull out of these three projects that this deal demanded.

According to media/press reports at the time, Teddy Riley was later hired again by Michael Jackson in order to complete the production of that particular album (with that song, as well).

Apparently, this indicates that more than one people have the ‘From The Bottom Of My Heart’ song in their hands (the then-manager of Two Seas label Guy Holmes, and Teddy Riley among others).

The Estate is also in possession of that song, but it is not known if the Estate actually plans to release it in the future.
 
We can try to sound educated on this but the truth is. There is no way of telling without listening; 'complete enough' is subjective. We know there is more out there, have a handful of 'for sure' ones by accounts of people that worked on the projects, but beyond that is a hypothesis game.

The last few years Michael did not save the vocal tracks with the instrumental section intentionally - so even if we hear what producers have. Unless it was nearly complete, if not 100% we may never know.. Unless found in a vault of some sort.
 
mj_frenzy;4279187 said:
That is interesting, thanks.





As far as the 2006 version of the ā€˜From The Bottom Of My Heartā€™ song (with the guest vocalists) is concerned, the song was not released because Michael Jackson eventually backed out of the deal that was signed between him and Prince Abdullah.

Although Michael Jackson was contractually obliged to deliver a brand new studio album in 2006-2007 through Two Seas label (including that song), an autobiography and a musical stage play, in the end for unspecified reasons he decided to pull out of these three projects that this deal demanded.

According to media/press reports at the time, Teddy Riley was later hired again by Michael Jackson in order to complete the production of that particular album (with that song, as well).

Apparently, this indicates that more than one people have the ā€˜From The Bottom Of My Heartā€™ song in their hands (the then-manager of Two Seas label Guy Holmes, and Teddy Riley among others).

The Estate is also in possession of that song, but it is not known if the Estate actually plans to release it in the future.
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Oh...I see.
I was thinking that it might have been because of Michael backing out of the deal but I wasn't sure.
Thank You!

I found some interesting articles that were reporting on the whole 'Two Seas Records' situation:

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/58713/michael-jackson-sails-with-two-seas
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/5380654.stm

Even the Prince fan community was talking about this, in 2006 lol:
https://prince.org/msg/8/203185

Jamon Bull said on the MJCast (the John Barnes episode) that he remembers that there were even some pictures that leaked in the mid 00s where Michael was in the 'Two Seas Studios'.
Is there any truth to this?
 
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dethorro said:
Oh...I see.
I was thinking that it might have been because of Michael backing out of the deal but I wasn't sure.
Thank You!

I found some interesting articles that were reporting on the whole 'Two Seas Records' situation:

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/58713/michael-jackson-sails-with-two-seas
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/5380654.stm

Even the Prince fan community was talking about this, in 2006 lol:
https://prince.org/msg/8/203185

Jamon Bull said on the MJCast (the John Barnes episode) that he remembers that there were even some pictures that leaked in the mid 00s where Michael was in the 'Two Seas Studios'.
Is there any truth to this?
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I have not seen those studio pictures that Jamon Bull said that they leaked in the mid-00s.

But regardless of the existence or not of these leaked studio pictures, Michael Jackson was actively working on new music and he was recording in the 'Two Seas Studios' at that time.

During his stay in Bahrain at that time, Michael Jackson was seen by local people and taxi drivers entering and exiting the studio.

Also, local people saw with their own eyes various rappers entering the studio while Michael Jackson was inside (this was also confirmed by reports at the time).

There have been also comments from some of those rappers who visited him in the studio (in order to discuss with him about possible collaborations).
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I think there is a distinction between it being about money and being ALL about money, as nite line put it. I think any reasonable person understands that the estate is a business and a business needs to thrive and make money, we get it. But the money shouldn't be all that they're aiming for. They should also preserve the artists legacy which MJ spent his entire life building and also release stuff while maintaining some level of integrity.
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Exactly.
 
I'm not sure how many unreleased songs are there. we already got a few while Michael was alive and his after his death. i'm pretty sure there's more. how many? I do not know.

I think the reasons we not getting all the songs because one Michael didn't want some release because they were undone and two they probably wanna go slow with it because let's face the fact Michael is gone and we will never get anymore new songs.

so i'm hoping this year or this decade we will get some new unheard songs. me and my mom are eager.
 
I'm pulling this thread up again.

Now that we have much more reliable information on the songs that are ready for release.

Personally, I have spoken to one of the last producers who worked with Michael.
I will not disclose who at this point.

But he specifically told me about 24 or 25 songs from the Invincible sessions till his death in 2009 that are ready for immediate release.
Mixed and some even mastered.

The only issue: MJs Estate doesn't want to release. I recall hearing "MJs Estate administration is a bitch."

As Brad Sundberg said in the past: There is not much left from the Bad, Dangerours or HIStory era.
If you have ever been to one of his seminars, you know thats the truth. What has been leaked early last year is basically all there is.

Ghost of another lover and Throwing your life away are the only fully recorded Michael Songs from Bad and Dangerous that I know are ready for release. I heard both and can say, the first one is much more appealing.

Altough, and that's where it gets interesting: Every MJ song has probably 5 to 100 alternate vocal takes. I would die to hear those.

Take a look at anything since Invincible which has been mixed with ProTools.
All those sessions are stored in two places. And it's not the Estates vault.
 
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The estate could release a complete album just with tracks we already have on hand

Throwing Your Life Away, GYWOOM, The Loser, Dream Away, Chicago 1945, Hot Fun In The Summertime
And others like Ghost Of Another Lover, Buffalo Bill and maybe Seven Digits

But it seems like they don't make the slightest effort to review these tracks
 
They can't release those tracks, as the material holders don't want to.

I think Dream Away and Chicago 1945 are the only ones where the holder (was it Steve?) wants to release.
 
firmware-god said:
They can't release those tracks, as the material holders don't want to.

I think Dream Away and Chicago 1945 are the only ones where the holder (was it Steve?) wants to release.
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This is the problem
Since no one wants to release the tracks, we may never get a decent release of the songs
It's a set of factors that only disadvantage fans
I wonder if the holders either don't want to sell at all or if it's a matter of asking for too much money for the tracks
 
mj_frenzy said:
Administration Announcement: New thread started by Slave to the Rhythm

Relevant posts about unreleased songs have been moved into this thread, from the Men in Black discussion.

Please carry on.






In my estimation, there are still many, nearly completed songs in the vaults.

In particular, the ‘BAD’, ‘Dangerous’ & ‘HIStory’ recording sessions were extremely prolific in terms of nearly completed unreleased material.

The nearly completed tracks from the ‘BAD’ sessions (that remain unreleased) are in excess of 50. The same goes for the ‘Dangerous’ & ‘HIStory’ sessions.

MJ used to over-record during those sessions & to create large collections of nearly completed tracks before choosing the ones for his final tracklists.
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Wow. I have never seen threads, made by you šŸ˜³
 
firmware-god said:
Ghost of another lover and Throwing your life away are the only fully recorded Michael Songs from Bad and Dangerous that I know are ready for release. I heard both and can say, the first one is much more appealing.
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So can I assume by reading this that there is a more vocally complete version of GOAL than the one that has leaked?
 
firmware-god said:
They can't release those tracks, as the material holders don't want to.

I think Dream Away and Chicago 1945 are the only ones where the holder (was it Steve?) wants to release.
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Are material holders private collectors, or former studios or people who worked with him?

Also how does it work with the rights to these unreleased tracks?

Can the estate just release something if they have the masters?

Or are e.g. private collectors rightsholder of songs they purchased?
 
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