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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

somewhereinthedark;4287183 said:
Exactly that’s what these tabloids and low life media do. They act like 2 people represent the majority. Believe it or not some pathetic people fall for that crap and spread the negative propaganda that Michael is done or finished. That’s how the weak minded are brainwashed. Seriously people are going to have to be smarter than that. Of course, when it comes to Michael logic, common sense, and rational thinking goes out the window. So sad!
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That is because MJ brings in $$$$$$. Again, look how OPrah jumped on LN but ignored UNtouchable about Weinstein. She only exposed herself
 
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terrell said:
That is because MJ brings in $$$$$$.
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:bow:

Ture. anything with Michael name on it or anything Michael related will give you money and attention for sure. Michael still pretty much powerful. that why they use him. they been doing it since 1993 and they still doing it now even when he's gone.

I would look at the positive things about MJ before the negative because that what they want. they want to make that money. it's really sad. they do it to other people too. but when it comes to Michael he's their easy target and money. :(
 
Anna;4286846 said:
LN did a lot of damage, but there's nothing else we can do about it at this point, so focusing so much on the negativity is pointless. It isn't helpful or healthy. A lot of people think he's a paedophile, the swell of goodwill after his death is gone, the mass embracing of him throughout our culture has significantly diminished — all these things are true, but you also can't change any of it, you just have to accept it and look at the positive things. Try and think of the big picture instead of where we are now.
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Respectfully, Anna, that is hyperbole. Yes, there was some fallout but we cannot say that the goodwill is gone nor can we say the mass embracing is signficantly diminished. We cannot quantify these things. We can agree that things have changed since his death, but we have to be nuanced about it - some good and some bad.
 
TheChosenOne said:
Respectfully, Anna, that is hyperbole. Yes, there was some fallout but we cannot say that the goodwill is gone nor can we say the mass embracing is signficantly diminished. We cannot quantify these things. We can agree that things have changed since his death, but we have to be nuanced about it - some good and some bad.
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I agree.
 
TheChosenOne said:
Respectfully, Anna, that is hyperbole. Yes, there was some fallout but we cannot say that the goodwill is gone nor can we say the mass embracing is signficantly diminished. We cannot quantify these things. We can agree that things have changed since his death, but we have to be nuanced about it - some good and some bad.
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We can say what we want and we can believe what we want, but the external reality still exists independently. How you see it just depends on your own filters.
 
Anna said:
We can say what we want and we can believe what we want, but the external reality still exists independently. How you see it just depends on your own filters.
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My own 'filter' recently has been looking at 'Youtube' with the search term 'Michael Jackson' and filtering for the last 24 hours.

After months of 'Ayuwoke' type videos (and worse), I've seen a whole change-around to many, many 'Heal the World' videos and now 'reaction to MJ songs' videos, as if a new generation is just discovering him. The measurable difference has been very encouraging to see, on YT at least.

Like this 'Earth Song' reaction... (and the comments!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPv5dGhEWMY


and this :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id47uwm7Jmc


And..I've just seen Marin Alsop (Musical Dir. of Baltimore Symphony Orchestra and also the Radio Symphony Orchestra of Vienna) conducting an 'at home' version of 'We Are The World'. (not YT)
https://tvthek.orf.at/profile/kultu...WQAPjXg_FA_G-5i0qaG87UJhGAQdFET0moqABAICsyK5I
 
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I think everyone as their own point of view. in my point of view, things has gotten better since LN aired. yes we still have trolls, haters, and negatively. but we always had that. we even had that when Michael was alive. soooo....?

in my opinion and point of view, things has gotten better since LN. i think it's how some of us see things or where we live etc.
 
myosotis;4287229 said:
After months of 'Ayuwoke' type videos (and worse), I've seen a whole change-around to many, many 'Heal the World' videos and now 'reaction to MJ songs' videos, as if a new generation is just discovering him. The measurable difference has been very encouraging to see, on YT at least.

Like this 'Earth Song' reaction... (and the comments!)
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Right, this young man is the perfect example for how MJ’s legacy will live on and thrive, not matter what the legacy media say or do. This new generation doesn’t go to the news stand and pick up a copy of the daily tabloid garbage. It’s the YouTube generation. They have their own thing going on, and I’m a big fan of this. Reaction videos like this show the subscribers first-hand how amazing MJ’s work is. And the fact that MJ still gets reactions like this on his work some 25 years later, on a medium that didn’t even exist back when he created it, speaks for itself. MJ’s legacy is in safe hands.

Check out his reaction to TDCAU (Prison Version). He gets the message, and he acknowledges its relevance today.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HVMbSCN3hs8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It’s really uplifting to see his enthusiasm for the song. This is not some kid checking out oldie music from way back when. This is all very current, very relevant, and even very personal. He connects with the music on the same personal level as people did in the 90’s.

This is the legacy. This is what’s being carried forward.

And if you check out the comments, they’re all positive. Of course, sooner or later, the haters will find him and spam the comments, but so what? When does anyone ever read the comments section anyway? Let them rot in their own little hell and celebrate the music!

NatureCriminal7896;4287236 said:
I think everyone as their own point of view. in my point of view, things has gotten better since LN aired. yes we still have trolls, haters, and negatively. but we always had that. we even had that when Michael was alive. soooo....?
in my opinion and point of view, things has gotten better since LN. i think it's how some of us see things or where we live etc.
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Exactly. The whole hate train never really left the station here in Germany, and I’m amazed at how much out of hand it had gotten in the USA and UK last year. But globally speaking, most people don’t live in the USA or UK. Look at India, for example. MJ has superhero status there. :D

There are haters and there will always be haters. But please everyone, consider that co-existing with intelligent life on Earth are also: racists, anti-semites, flat-earthers, climate-change deniers, and what have you. These people exist, and we’re not going to somehow magically turn them into rational human beings. Look at any social media news story and you’ll pretty much always find prime examples of the bottom of the barrel of humanity among the commenters.

People don’t spew hate about MJ because of MJ. They’re just hateful people that will jump onto anything that catches their attention and gives them a platform.

They are also always the same people. Report, block, and move on. Don’t comment on the haters, just leave a positive comment on the actual content. On YouTube or Reddit, use the downvote feature to give hateful comments less visibility.

Let’s support and celebrate the new generation of fans that’s busy discovering MJ’s work as we speak. Subscribe to their channels, like and share their videos, and answer any questions they may have. That’s the way we can help to carry the legacy forward. :)
 
Thanks for these comments and recommending these videos! It's been refreshing and moving to deal simply with the music again. And who needs music critics when you have music enthusiasts?! ;)

JM, watch these for positive input! :cool:
 
He always had a fair share of ridicule to his name but it was jokingly, they joked he was a pedophile but it was for fun, it looked like people didn't really take it seriously. But laughing with MJ was made so easy and many many people did. Now the jokes are gone mostly, there is this shade hanging over conversations around MJ (based on reactions from radio DJ's).
People have now seen 2 testimonies in detail about what allegedly happened at Neverland, for weeks when MJ was played on the radio, the DJ's would always talk about the allegations after the song played, shared phone numbers with the listeners to battle suicidal thoughts and depression for people who have also been victim of sexual abuse. The jokes are gone, it's gone serious and many people feel reluctant now to dance to MJ or to enjoy his music because of the horrible things they heard of LN.
Some say the ratings were low and they were but that is because it was marketed as a very disturbing shocking doc, not many people are willing to spend 4 hours watching that. But they read reviews afterwards and talk shows on tv and radio talked about it. People are aware of LN and it's narrative.
Perhaps some still don't quite believe it but the "what if" scenario plays in the heads now and people respectfully just decline now to really be outspokenly positive about MJ in public.

This is my perception of how LN shaped MJ's stardom after airing of the doc.
 
Don&#8217;t listen to these radio stations then. Let them shovel their own grave. Use Spotify or YouTube.
 
Did anyone see the Teddy Riley/Babyface battle last night? it was great. Teddy put out the hits he produce by Michael. Great comments and to show the next generation about MJ.
 
JichaelMackson said:
He always had a fair share of ridicule to his name but it was jokingly, they joked he was a pedophile but it was for fun, it looked like people didn't really take it seriously. But laughing with MJ was made so easy and many many people did. Now the jokes are gone mostly, there is this shade hanging over conversations around MJ (based on reactions from radio DJ's).
People have now seen 2 testimonies in detail about what allegedly happened at Neverland, for weeks when MJ was played on the radio, the DJ's would always talk about the allegations after the song played, shared phone numbers with the listeners to battle suicidal thoughts and depression for people who have also been victim of sexual abuse. The jokes are gone, it's gone serious and many people feel reluctant now to dance to MJ or to enjoy his music because of the horrible things they heard of LN.
Some say the ratings were low and they were but that is because it was marketed as a very disturbing shocking doc, not many people are willing to spend 4 hours watching that. But they read reviews afterwards and talk shows on tv and radio talked about it. People are aware of LN and it's narrative.
Perhaps some still don't quite believe it but the "what if" scenario plays in the heads now and people respectfully just decline now to really be outspokenly positive about MJ in public.

This is my perception of how LN shaped MJ's stardom after airing of the doc.
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Well, you clearly did not see the Teddy Riley/Babyface battle last night which broke Instragram and the talk just morning, Teddy Riley/Michael Jackson parts even all on the radio now.
 
terrell;4287276 said:
Well, you clearly did not see the Teddy Riley/Babyface battle last night which broke Instragram and the talk just morning, Teddy Riley/Michael Jackson parts even all on the radio now.
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I added this to the 'MJ Good News Thread' in the 'News' section (thank you for your comments there), but it's worth adding this sentence from an online media report here as well:


...But it was cool to also be reminded that Riley helped give the great Michael Jackson some long-lost street cred with his &#8220;Dangerous&#8221; album in 1991. When he drops the beat on &#8220;In the Closet,&#8221; it&#8217;s a reminder of the genius in both of them.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/20/babyfa...tagram-battle/
 
JichaelMackson;4287268 said:
He always had a fair share of ridicule to his name but it was jokingly, they joked he was a pedophile but it was for fun, it looked like people didn't really take it seriously. But laughing with MJ was made so easy and many many people did. Now the jokes are gone mostly, there is this shade hanging over conversations around MJ (based on reactions from radio DJ's).
People have now seen 2 testimonies in detail about what allegedly happened at Neverland, for weeks when MJ was played on the radio, the DJ's would always talk about the allegations after the song played, shared phone numbers with the listeners to battle suicidal thoughts and depression for people who have also been victim of sexual abuse. The jokes are gone, it's gone serious and many people feel reluctant now to dance to MJ or to enjoy his music because of the horrible things they heard of LN.
Some say the ratings were low and they were but that is because it was marketed as a very disturbing shocking doc, not many people are willing to spend 4 hours watching that. But they read reviews afterwards and talk shows on tv and radio talked about it. People are aware of LN and it's narrative.
Perhaps some still don't quite believe it but the "what if" scenario plays in the heads now and people respectfully just decline now to really be outspokenly positive about MJ in public.

This is my perception of how LN shaped MJ's stardom after airing of the doc.
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Well the UK ratings were good for a TV doc, especially one of that nature — 2 million. But compare that to ratings of the primetime shows which get like 8-12 million on average, it's not a lot. A lot of the LN viewers would have already been fans anyway. From what I've noticed the UK and US were the most significantly impacted in terms of industry attitudes towards Michael and shift in public perception. Enough time and Taj's doc should help with Michael's image, but the stain on him will never fully go away unless something crazy happens, like all the accusers admitting it was all BS. Sadly I don't see that happening.

If Michael hadn't been so stubborn and continually put himself in a position where he could be screwed over again and again, we wouldn't be in this situation now, but it is the way it is. Michael didn't deserve to be screwed over of course, but he chose to publicly associate with young boys and let children sleep in his bedroom. The Chandler incident should have been the end of all that; he certainly knew what people thought of his behaviour at that point and how vulnerable he was, but he chose to continue. He made that choice. Our choices always have consequences.
 
Anna;4287287 said:
Well the UK ratings were good for a TV doc, especially one of that nature &#8212; 2 million. But compare that to ratings of the primetime shows which get like 8-12 million on average, it's not a lot. A lot of the LN viewers would have already been fans anyway. From what I've noticed the UK and US were the most significantly impacted in terms of industry attitudes towards Michael and shift in public perception. Enough time and Taj's doc should help with Michael's image, but the stain on him will never fully go away unless something crazy happens, like all the accusers admitting it was all BS. Sadly I don't see that happening.

If Michael hadn't been so stubborn and continually put himself in a position where he could be screwed over again and again, we wouldn't be in this situation now, but it is the way it is. Michael didn't deserve to be screwed over of course, but he chose to publicly associate with young boys and let children sleep in his bedroom. The Chandler incident should have been the end of all that; he certainly knew what people thought of his behaviour at that point and how vulnerable he was, but he chose to continue. He made that choice. Our choices always have consequences.
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He let children fall asleep after playing in his bedroom with their parents' permission and with the parents usually on site whether at Neverland or elsewhere eg in the kids own homes. He was doing nothing wrong and didn't change his behaviour because he wasn't doing anything wrong. He lived his young life in Gary sharing a bedroom with all his brothers (and probably cousins too from time to time) and he spent his teens - early 20's on tour living in hotel rooms with press, security, friends, approved admirers etc all visiting him in his room. Living in his room was his 'way of life', and it was ALWAYS unlike almost anyone else's.

He saw the accusations as money grabs, much the same as he saw the woman claiming to be Annie, or the woman who claimed she wrote Dangerous. The only way for him to definitively get away from money grabs should have been 'to die', but sadly that didn't make any difference. He was a target whatever he did and however he lived his life.
 
myosotis;4287292 said:
He let children fall asleep after playing in his bedroom with their parents' permission and with the parents usually on site whether at Neverland or elsewhere eg in the kids own homes. He was doing nothing wrong and didn't change his behaviour because he wasn't doing anything wrong. He lived his young life in Gary sharing a bedroom with all his brothers (and probably cousins too from time to time) and he spent his teens - early 20's on tour living in hotel rooms with press, security, friends, approved admirers etc all visiting him in his room. Living in his room was his 'way of life', and it was ALWAYS unlike almost anyone else's.

He saw the accusations as money grabs, much the same as he saw the woman claiming to be Annie, or the woman who claimed she wrote Dangerous. The only way for him to definitively get away from money grabs should have been 'to die', but sadly that didn't make any difference. He was a target whatever he did and however he lived his life.
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I just wanted to say, I&#8217;m a fan of your posts. :)
 
myosotis said:
He let children fall asleep after playing in his bedroom with their parents' permission and with the parents usually on site whether at Neverland or elsewhere eg in the kids own homes. He was doing nothing wrong and didn't change his behaviour because he wasn't doing anything wrong. He lived his young life in Gary sharing a bedroom with all his brothers (and probably cousins too from time to time) and he spent his teens - early 20's on tour living in hotel rooms with press, security, friends, approved admirers etc all visiting him in his room. Living in his room was his 'way of life', and it was ALWAYS unlike almost anyone else's.

He saw the accusations as money grabs, much the same as he saw the woman claiming to be Annie, or the woman who claimed she wrote Dangerous. The only way for him to definitively get away from money grabs should have been 'to die', but sadly that didn't make any difference. He was a target whatever he did and however he lived his life.
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Exactly. My grandmother was like MJ in that way. She let everyone in her room and lay in the bed because they where she liked to stay in most of the day with her tv. She just was not rich so someone can lie on her.
 
I never understood why people made such an issue about the &#8220;bedroom&#8221;. What about people who live in a single-room apartment? They basically invite everyone into their bedroom. There&#8217;s really nothing special about a bedroom, unless someone&#8217;s whole thinking goes into a very specific direction.
 
myosotis said:
He let children fall asleep after playing in his bedroom with their parents' permission and with the parents usually on site whether at Neverland or elsewhere eg in the kids own homes. He was doing nothing wrong and didn't change his behaviour because he wasn't doing anything wrong. He lived his young life in Gary sharing a bedroom with all his brothers (and probably cousins too from time to time) and he spent his teens - early 20's on tour living in hotel rooms with press, security, friends, approved admirers etc all visiting him in his room. Living in his room was his 'way of life', and it was ALWAYS unlike almost anyone else's.

He saw the accusations as money grabs, much the same as he saw the woman claiming to be Annie, or the woman who claimed she wrote Dangerous. The only way for him to definitively get away from money grabs should have been 'to die', but sadly that didn't make any difference. He was a target whatever he did and however he lived his life.
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:(

Thank you.
 
Oh please, most people don't care about the details. That's the point. He hung around with young boys and let kids sleep in his room &#8212; that's what they see and that's the basic truth. Michael was no fool, especially after Chandler he knew that was red flag behaviour in this society for adult men who aren't even related to the children in question. He was never going to get away with that as the most famous and scrutinised person on the planet. He made bad choices and here we are still dealing with the fallout 11 years after his death. I love Michael, but so much misery, devastation and even his death could have been avoided if he was more in touch with reality. It took the trial to make him finally change his behaviour and it was far too late by that point, because the trial was the beginning of the end and the paedophilia stain was firmly established.
 
ScreenOrigami;4287272 said:
Don’t listen to these radio stations then. Let them shovel their own grave. Use Spotify or YouTube.
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That's not the point I'm trying to make. I hardly listen to the radio, perhaps one hour a day. What I described it what is happening, not listening to it doesn't make it go away. I honestly don't even care about it, I'm just voicing my opinion , that's all I do, it doesn't make or break my day at all.
There's a couple of users here that keep telling me what I should do, it's arrogant. Take a break, stop listening to the radio etc. As if I'm not able to think straight and be rational. I'm perfectly capable myself to decide what to do or don't.
 
terrell said:
Well, you clearly did not see the Teddy Riley/Babyface battle last night which broke Instragram and the talk just morning, Teddy Riley/Michael Jackson parts even all on the radio now.
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Look I'm a bit of a recluse. I'm not very social and I don't have that craving for it either. I'm not part of instagram, Facebook, twitter any social media at all. I only get information from the newspapers/radio. So no I'm mostly not aware of anything like the stuff you just mentioned.
 
JichaelMackson;4287307 said:
I hardly listen to the radio, perhaps one hour a day. What I described it what is happening, not listening to it doesn't make it go away.
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Well, if no one listens to them anymore, it will go away in the long run. The legacy media are struggling. We are many. Let&#8217;s just collectively walk away from them.
 
JichaelMackson;4287308 said:
I only get information from the newspapers/radio. So no I'm mostly not aware of anything like the stuff you just mentioned.
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And this is exactly why you don&#8217;t see the same picture as some others here. Might want to try and venture out of your comfort zone end explore. I can guarantee from my own experience that you can safely explore social media without having to socialize. Just be a lurker. :)
 
JichaelMackson said:
I hardly listen to the radio, perhaps one hour a day. What I described it what is happening, not listening to it doesn't make it go away.
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At least radio stations in my area still plays Michael, but I refuse to listen to radio stations are owned/licensed by Rogers on the account of the very company part of the epidemic #CancelCulture for wrongfully firing Don Cherry. Any radio stations say crap about Michael a lot worse, just add them to a H8T list like I do.
 
Anna;4287304 said:
Oh please, most people don't care about the details. That's the point. He hung around with young boys and let kids sleep in his room &#8212; that's what they see and that's the basic truth. Michael was no fool, especially after Chandler he knew that was red flag behaviour in this society for adult men who aren't even related to the children in question. He was never going to get away with that as the most famous and scrutinised person on the planet. He made bad choices and here we are still dealing with the fallout 11 years after his death. I love Michael, but so much misery, devastation and even his death could have been avoided if he was more in touch with reality. It took the trial to make him finally change his behaviour and it was far too late by that point, because the trial was the beginning of the end and the paedophilia stain was firmly established.
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I know this but I still get upset that people LIED about abuse. Not agreeing with MJ is one thing, but to use it to LIE on him for $$ which is clearly the case is my issue and there is no justification for doing that to MJ or anyone
 
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ScreenOrigami;4287310 said:
And this is exactly why you don&#8217;t see the same picture as some others here. Might want to try and venture out of your comfort zone end explore. I can guarantee from my own experience that you can safely explore social media without having to socialize. Just be a lurker. :)
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That's why I'm here, since I got word of LN and saw it on tv I searched for a place to see the view from the other side but I only recently signed up here. I'm going to be very honest here, after I saw LN I was convinced MJ was guilty but after reading up some stuff here I started to doubt and when I saw the effort some people make (with all the documentaries etc) that doubt turned into positivity ( yes really :p ) but I'm very anxious to see some positive docs on tv now.
I'm really not interested in social media :) I once had a Facebook account but I realized I was only using it to lurk on other people's profiles and I hated doing that, so I signed out.
 
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