Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

This thread is indeed about LN, but we have to understand that the game the media plays is to make people think that MJ wasn’t trustworthy. Their portrayal of MJ as a liar opened the door for all those allegations that no rational person would otherwise believe. Once a liar, always a liar. And I agree that this is deeply rooted in racism. There’s a long history of portraying Black people as constantly lying and scheming.
 
ScreenOrigami;4300223 said:
This thread is indeed about LN, but we have to understand that the game the media plays is to make people think that MJ wasn’t trustworthy. Their portrayal of MJ as a liar opened the door for all those allegations that no rational person would otherwise believe. Once a liar, always a liar. And I agree that this is deeply rooted in racism. There’s a long history of portraying Black people as constantly lying and scheming.

The UK's 'Independent' paper today has an article about the 'Ellen' show, which makes some valid points, one of which is the obvious one that people (audiences) don't like being lied to. They like to think that TV chat presenters are 'like just like us' and 'on our side' as in 'we're all in this together and have a common understanding of things'.

One thing the article doesn't mention is that the pandemic has made people globally much more acutely aware of 'fake news', in the sense that incorrect news about the virus can literally mean 'life or death' if the wrong advice is taken. I have a feeling that 'media figures' who are shown to be lying to the public will be much less tolerated than previously. Lies are not 'just fun and games' any more.

Be kind, rewind: Why the tables have turned on Ellen DeGeneres

''Actually no, that’s not the truth Ellen,” was the sentence that set it all off. It came from actor Dakota Johnson, who was being interviewed by Ellen DeGeneres in November 2019 and had found herself the butt of one of DeGeneres’s jokes. If you’ve never seen clips of The Ellen DeGeneres Show, this is part and parcel of the hosts’ interview schtick: in her singsong patter, she throws out some awkward comments that make celebrities sweat a tiny bit, all in the spirit of the show. Here, the offhand joke was that Johnson hadn’t invited DeGeneres to her birthday party. But Johnson wasn’t biting.

........... Much of the recent outrage around Ellen stems from the fact that people don’t like to feel as though they’re being sold a lie. The very first allegations against DeGeneres weren’t regarding any form of strict misconduct per se – people said that she was, to put it bluntly, mean.

.............The show’s kind core began to unravel quickly, with criticisms piling on thick and fast. Fans (me included) began a reckoning, not only with DeGeneres as a person but with Ellen as a format, too. These criticisms fit into a much broader cultural crisis around the ethics of popular talk shows, from The Jerry Springer Show to The Jeremy Kyle Show to the Tyra Banks Show, all of which have been retrospectively critiqued for exploiting vulnerable people. The cruelty of The Ellen DeGeneres Show, however, was far subtler. Ellen’s brand of entertainment veered away from the sensationalism of interpersonal conflict and instead opted for “feelgood” antics – but, to some extent, unkindness was still involved.

“Most of the pranks on Ellen wouldn’t be funny if there wasn’t an audience,” a friend of mine recently said. And these pranks are, by and large, enacted on the unsuspecting public. In a clip viewed over 7 million times, DeGeneres plants a hidden camera in Jennifer Aniston’s dressing room and feeds Aniston lines for a conversation with an unsuspecting bike salesman. DeGeneres makes Aniston look silly – “that’s a really pretty bike… pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty,” Aniston says, as DeGeneres delivers instructions into her earpiece. Aniston also does things that would understandably make the bike salesman feel awkward, like asking him to scratch her back. The clip ends with Aniston being told to ask if he’s hitting on her, to which he replies that he isn’t but that he’d love to take her out to coffee. Suddenly, it’s revealed to the bike salesman that Aniston, multimillionaire of Friends fame, wasn’t actually interested in him, and he’s asked her out in front of millions. Surprise! There’s a live studio audience watching. You’re on The Ellen Show.

The show has other uncomfortable segments of a similar ilk, like “Ellen’s got your Facebook photos!”, where she unearths your (usually revealing) online pictures, and “Caught on the Ellen shop’s hidden camera!”, where audience members are given the opportunity to steal from the gift shop and then the incriminating footage is played on the big-screen. I remember cringing the first time I saw these segments but not quite knowing how to articulate why. Now, I do. Like many others, I’m asking myself whether such public shaming, with its deceptively jovial, “we’re all in this together” shadow, is actually just a bit cruel.

Then comes politics. Last year, around the time of Dakota-Johnson’s-birthday-party-gate, DeGeneres came under fire after pictures emerged of her hanging out with George Bush, a former president who actively stood against same-sex marriage. After the backlash, she made a public statement on the show, saying: “I’m friends with George Bush. In fact, I’m friends with a lot of people who don’t share the same beliefs that I have… When I say, ‘Be kind to one another’, I don’t mean only the people who think the same way that you do. I mean be kind to everyone.”

This sort of apolitical kindness, however, often overlooks discrimination and oppression – and seemed to be part of the culture behind the scenes of Ellen. One former black employee told Buzzfeed that at a work party, one of Ellen’s main writers said, “I’m sorry, I only know the names of the white people who work here.” When the same employee brought up issues of race and representation on the show, she said that her colleagues dubbed her the “PC police”. Another woman who worked there, meanwhile, said that senior staff failed to act after she learned a male colleague was earning double what she was for doing the same job. And this year, the show’s handling of the coronavirus crisis, which left many staff in the dark about their jobs and pay, also points towards a lack of consideration for workers’ rights. It seems absurd that behind the scenes, the makers of Ellen don’t seem to understand that “kindness” also means taking account of things like racism, sexism and working conditions.

Since the news broke that The Ellen DeGeneres Show is under formal investigation, much speculation has surrounded whether DeGeneres will be replaced as the host, and if so, by whom. But it looks like the problem isn’t just about DeGeneres as an individual, and is instead a systemic one that plagues the whole Ellen business from the top down. There’s also been an attitudinal shift when it comes to daytime TV. Television and viewing habits are constantly evolving, and many things that audiences liked or found comfort in 10 years ago won’t necessarily be deemed likeable or comfortable now. This applies to the awkward pranks and ribbing that is so characteristic of Ellen but also to the ethos we’re sold through our screens – particularly in 2020, that “kindness” without politics isn’t good enough for many viewers.

If there’s one thing the show’s executives can learn from this, it’s that when a brand (whether that’s a celebrity, a show, or, like Ellen, a blurry mix of the two) makes millions from a particular public image, viewers feel betrayed when that image is revealed to be false. Audiences wanted to believe that “be kind to one another” was a guiding principle on DeGeneres’s set. But in the words of Dakota Johnson, it seems that actually no, that’s not the truth, Ellen.


https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...an-show-cancelled-investigation-a9658171.html
 
i didn't say all. i just said Europe. not only Europe but the USA media too. but more of it did and still come from Europe. no hate to anyone from europe. i'm not talking to you but the media/press when it come to michael. it been that way since the late 70's. really sad to know he been though that all his life. but he was strong though.

You said

"The Europe media always had a problem with Michael."

If you didnt mean the whole continent you would have been better saying the names of the countries that you ment Theres alot of countries in europe!

The medias game was to dehumanize mj. Typical racist lynching. Attack him to the point that when it came to lynching him the gen public didnt care or ask any questions because most had already been brainwashed.

Theres a long list.
Bleached skin,surgeries to be white.married white women cause he hated his race. Didnt father his own children and got "white" kids cause he wanted to be white. Was a weirdo.A germ freak.lived beyond his means greedy,ego riddled. If you degumanize someone to the point of them not been seen as a human being with feelings etc its so much easier to destroy them. Ask 1930's germany.
 
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elusive moonwalker;4300218 said:
Not really. The british media is run by middle class public scool boys. The establishment, as with most things in the uk its who you know not what you know. Jobs for the boys! Mj didnt conform to what they wanted him to be. Now living in mainland europe there is a mark difference to the way mj is treated here compaired to the uk press.

It will be interesting to see what female (middle class) opinion columnists who were so quick to condemn the (innocent) MJ in British newspapers will make of today's story about former Labour MP Eric Joyce. He's the long time (but not married) partner of a well known ('Sunday Times') female journalist. Joyce has previously tweeted in support of Hadley Freeman's book (not about MJ)- which illustrates a certain 'supportive network' between these people.

Ex-Labour MP Eric Joyce gets suspended jail sentence over child abuse image
Former MP sentenced at Ipswich crown court to eight months in prison suspended for two years

The former Labour MP Eric Joyce has been handed a suspended sentence after admitting to making an indecent image of a child.

The 59-year-old ex-army major, who served as MP for Falkirk for more than a decade, was given an eight-month sentence, suspended for two years, and also ordered to complete 150 hours of unpaid work.

The ex-shadow minister had a 51-second film on a device depicting “penetrative sexual abuse of very young children”.

Joyce, of Worlingworth, Suffolk, who was on bail after being arrested in 2018, had pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing at Ipswich crown court to the offence, which took place between August 2013 and November 2018. Joyce was ordered to sign the sex offender register after his admission.

Edis also sentenced Joyce to a sexual harm prevention order, lasting until further order of the court. The ex-MP was also given an 18-day rehabilitation activity requirement and ordered to pay prosecution costs of £1,800.

At an earlier court hearing in July, Judge Emma Peters warned Joyce that the offence crossed the custody threshold. She said the film, found on a device, “depicts a number of children”. “Some are quite young, one is said to be 12 months old,” she said. “Clearly a category A movie.”

She explained that Joyce, who appeared at court in person, “says he accesses it via an email which he says was a spam email”. The judge added: “At the time he was drinking heavily and he has now undergone work with the Lucy Faithfull Foundation and a psychotherapist.”

Joyce served as shadow minister for Northern Ireland from June until November 2010 before resigning from the post after being banned from driving for a year when he admitted failing to provide a breath test.

Joyce left Labour to serve as independent MP in 2012, before stepping down before the 2015 general election. He spent 21 years in the army, rising to the rank of major.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...uspended-jail-sentence-over-child-abuse-image

There's a certain amount of Twitter chat about it eg:
'I'd like to know why his (partner) is keeping quiet. Bloody hope she's not standing by him.'

'Ah so that's the reason for Twitter silence. One rule for them and another for the rest of us it seems.'
 
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Another stop on the karma train. Choo chooo. :)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2019: E! News armchair-psychologizing/comparing 2 cases that have nothing in common except the race of the accused and gloating about the &quot;brands and people&quot; canceling MJ over a fraudulent movie, since debunked (no news about that by E! News)<br><br>2020: E! News being canceled. <a href="https://t.co/TFap9gqmiW">pic.twitter.com/TFap9gqmiW</a></p>&mdash; Salazar (@MikeSalazar777) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeSalazar777/status/1291619817036951552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

:popcorn:
 
Leaving Neverland took a court case and showed only one side of it- and was rewarded by media institutions for doing so.

Reed has already said that LN was 'greatly helped' by Oprah's backing. Celebs like Ellen subsequently piled in to support LN's one-sided stance, without ever mentioning the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty', or that LN was subsequently shown to include outright lies.

Celebs who are prepared to condemn anyone (especially) an innocent person (whether dead or alive) without due process of law are propagating a culture of media- led witch-hunts for clicks (money) and popular ('me too') support.

Their stories of subsequent falls from grace only serve to illustrate that those who 'live by the sword, can die by the sword' ie they are not immune to being equally condemned without due process on the basis of one-sided media stories. It is hopefully a life lesson- treat others as you wish to be treated yourself.

And it still can be a divine for MJ. It is a way that is being done to show how full of it those who are quick to judge the innocent can be and find themselves being prejudge or being expose. It is no fun when the rabbit turn the gun on them
 
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myosotis;4300239 said:
It will be interesting to see what female (middle class) opinion columnists who were so quick to condemn the (innocent) MJ in British newspapers will make of today's story about former Labour MP Eric Joyce. He's the long time (but not married) partner of a well known ('Sunday Times') female journalist. Joyce has previously tweeted in support of Hadley Freeman's book (not about MJ)- which illustrates a certain 'supportive network' between these people.

Ex-Labour MP Eric Joyce gets suspended jail sentence over child abuse image
Former MP sentenced at Ipswich crown court to eight months in prison suspended for two years

The former Labour MP Eric Joyce has been handed a suspended sentence after admitting to making an indecent image of a child.

The 59-year-old ex-army major, who served as MP for Falkirk for more than a decade, was given an eight-month sentence, suspended for two years, and also ordered to complete 150 hours of unpaid work.

The ex-shadow minister had a 51-second film on a device depicting &#8220;penetrative sexual abuse of very young children&#8221;.

Joyce, of Worlingworth, Suffolk, who was on bail after being arrested in 2018, had pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing at Ipswich crown court to the offence, which took place between August 2013 and November 2018. Joyce was ordered to sign the sex offender register after his admission.

Edis also sentenced Joyce to a sexual harm prevention order, lasting until further order of the court. The ex-MP was also given an 18-day rehabilitation activity requirement and ordered to pay prosecution costs of £1,800.

At an earlier court hearing in July, Judge Emma Peters warned Joyce that the offence crossed the custody threshold. She said the film, found on a device, &#8220;depicts a number of children&#8221;. &#8220;Some are quite young, one is said to be 12 months old,&#8221; she said. &#8220;Clearly a category A movie.&#8221;

She explained that Joyce, who appeared at court in person, &#8220;says he accesses it via an email which he says was a spam email&#8221;. The judge added: &#8220;At the time he was drinking heavily and he has now undergone work with the Lucy Faithfull Foundation and a psychotherapist.&#8221;

Joyce served as shadow minister for Northern Ireland from June until November 2010 before resigning from the post after being banned from driving for a year when he admitted failing to provide a breath test.

Joyce left Labour to serve as independent MP in 2012, before stepping down before the 2015 general election. He spent 21 years in the army, rising to the rank of major.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...uspended-jail-sentence-over-child-abuse-image

There's a certain amount of Twitter chat about it eg:
'I'd like to know why his (partner) is keeping quiet. Bloody hope she's not standing by him.'

'Ah so that's the reason for Twitter silence. One rule for them and another for the rest of us it seems.'

Very intresting. I didbt know about his wife. And a suspended sentence!! Says it all
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;The sordid, sensationalized motives are expressed in the structure and overall feel of the film itself. Leaving Neverland is not designed to educate, but to numb, intimidate and pollute.”<a href="https://t.co/XJuak2IYmF">https://t.co/XJuak2IYmF</a></p>&mdash; Salazar (@MikeSalazar777) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeSalazar777/status/1291755875141668865?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">John Legend's latest album tanking, Oprah finally being forced to turn off her SM comments. Ellen being outed for fostering a toxic &amp; racist work environment &amp; not being very nice, etc. For the many who got on the &quot;Lets Defame MJ&quot; train with LN last yr <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Karma2020?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Karma2020</a> has been LIT &#128293;</p>&mdash; Truth STILL Matters - GODDESS Uprising (@TruthMatters333) <a href="https://twitter.com/TruthMatters333/status/1291220511817699333?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Sweet justice for Michael while those against him are getting burned for it. HA! Sweet, sweet justice.
 
From today: Birds of a feather.... (Kravitz and HBO)

YXGXmT1.jpg


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And with regard to Ellen (hmmmm) :

Ellen DeGeneres TV show to make workplace changes after probe of culture

........&#8220;I&#8217;m also learning that people who work with me and for me are speaking on my behalf and misrepresenting who I am and that has to stop,&#8221; she added.

She said she was glad that her production team was &#8220;finally having conversations about fairness and justice. We all have to be more mindful about the way our words and actions affect others.&#8221;

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-changes-after-probe-of-culture-idUSKCN24V3UH
 
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Another journalist - Maureen Dowd- who supported LN being dragged on twitter today (for other reasons), this time by no less than H Clinton:

It&#8217;s hard to fathom, but it has been 36 years since a man and a woman ran together on the Democratic party ticket, writes @MaureenDowd (NY Times Opinion)

Hillary Clinton@HillaryClinton
Either @TimKaine and I had a very vivid shared hallucination four years ago or Maureen had too much pot brownie before writing her column again.

with some nice twitter follow up comments like these:
I want to thank @HillaryClinton for her tweet about Maureen Dowd. Seeing Secretary Clinton give that shark-jumping old hack the skewering she richly deserved gave me the jolt of energy I needed to shake off my isolation funk and get out of bed.
and
We need term limits for journalists

------------------------------------------------------------------------
What did Dowd say about LN? She wrote a NY Times Opinion piece called 'The King of Pop and Perversion' published on 16 Feb 2019, and also did an interview on 22nd Feb 2019 referring to her 'friend Maureen Orth at Vanity Fair'. From the interview :

It&#8217;s interesting because my friend Maureen Orth did some groundbreaking stories on Michael Jackson.

She did. At Vanity Fair.

Vanity Fair 20 years ago. And she would tell me at the time about the vicious reaction of Michael Jackson fans, and she&#8217;d say it would be worse the next day because the ones from Europe weighed in, you were really in trouble.

https://www.vox.com/2019/2/22/18235...-pivot-podcast-transcript-recode-kara-swisher

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opinion/sunday/michael-jackson-leaving-neverland.html
 
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Michael Jackson fans will LOVE this interview!</p>&mdash; John Ziegler (@Zigmanfreud) <a href="https://twitter.com/Zigmanfreud/status/1292842234878914561?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
This announcement about Oprah seems to include notable anti-mj connections- HBO and the Apollo Theatre (whose doc. largely excluded mention of the J5 and MJ)...

Interesting how these things all seem to triangulate together.

Oprah Starring In An HBO Adaptation Of &#8216;Between The World And Me&#8217;

....the New York Times bestseller is being adapted for television by HBO, and Oprah Winfrey has signed up to star in it.

Billed as an exploration of what it means to live in a Black body, and the fraught history of Black Americans in the country, the special will borrow from the Apollo Theater&#8217;s 2018 adaptation of Coates&#8217;s book, and is expected to include documentary footage of the actors&#8217; home lives, as well as animation. The Apollo&#8217;s executive producer Kamilah Forbes, a friend of Coates&#8217;s, will direct.

https://www.vogue.co.uk/arts-and-lifestyle/article/between-the-world-and-me
 
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myosotis;4300937 said:
This announcement about Oprah seems to include notable anti-mj connections- HBO and the Apollo Theatre (whose doc. largely excluded menetion og the J5 and MJ)...

Oprah Starring In An HBO Adaptation Of ‘Between The World And Me’

....the New York Times bestseller is being adapted for television by HBO, and Oprah Winfrey has signed up to star in it.

Billed as an exploration of what it means to live in a Black body, and the fraught history of Black Americans in the country, the special will borrow from the Apollo Theater’s 2018 adaptation of Coates’s book, and is expected to include documentary footage of the actors’ home lives, as well as animation. The Apollo’s executive producer Kamilah Forbes, a friend of Coates’s, will direct.

https://www.vogue.co.uk/arts-and-lifestyle/article/between-the-world-and-me

Who gives a bull$#|^ f:censored: about that cow and evil media company? They’ll all rot and that adaptation is gonna flop majorly.:mat:

giphy.gif
 
In spite of LN, a radio station in Taiwan celebrated MJ for the whole month of June last year, and their MJ program is now nominated for a Golden Bell Award. :)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Last year, the film was came out, but there was a radio station in Taiwan to celebrate MJ’s legacy, a whole month's program in last June. Just got a news, the program has been nominated for Taiwan's Golden Bell Awards, the Brand Marketing Innovation Award. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MJFam?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MJFam</a> <a href="https://t.co/WwLYlGj0zb">pic.twitter.com/WwLYlGj0zb</a></p>&mdash; Sheng-Yin (@shengyin0709) <a href="https://twitter.com/shengyin0709/status/1296026074275385344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Check out how they keep testing the waters to normalize their fantasies. :puke:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;The largely well-received French-language pic won the World Cinema Dramatic Directing Award at Sundance this year.&quot;<br><br>The same Sundance that promoted the pro-NAMBLA LN and whose co-founder is currently in jail for being a child predator? <a href="https://t.co/LcakoB8bg5">https://t.co/LcakoB8bg5</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/DEADLINE?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Deadline</a></p>&mdash; Salazar (@MikeSalazar777) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeSalazar777/status/1296692340501942272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

There&#8217;s something fundamentally wrong with Sundance & Co.

It&#8217;s like, &#8220;let&#8217;s try this poster and see if we can get away with it. We can always pull it and apologize if someone complains.&#8221;
 
This UK documentary about the false allegations against senior public figures in the UK made by liar Carl Beech will be interesting to watch on BBC2 at 9.00pm Monday night.

Interesting also that this documentary-maker is well -regarded for the truth of her films, but has never won a 'BAFTA'.

Vanessa Engle on Carl Beech: 'I didn&#8217;t want to tell the story of a liar at the expense of genuine victims'

...We are talking ahead of the release of her forthcoming BBC Two documentary about Carl Beech, the fantasist convicted in July 2019 of fraud, perverting the course of justice, and child sex offences, and sentenced to 18 years in prison. But the topic of female representation in the industry is on Engle&#8217;s mind &#8211; possibly because she has just found out that her 2019 film The $50 Million Art Swindle has been nominated for a Grierson award, the highest accolade in documentary film-making. This will be her eighth nomination, and yet Engle, who is 57, has never won a Grierson, or a Bafta for that matter. &#8220;I will let you be the judge of whether it is right to be up for it eight times and never win it,&#8221; Engle observes.

The Unbelievable Story of Carl Beech looks at the life of the man whose false allegations of a Westminster paedophile ring were broken by the now-defunct investigative news site Exaro in 2014. Beech alleged that politicians including the Conservative MP Harvey Proctor and the former home secretary Leon Brittan, as well as the former head of the British armed forces Lord Bramall, and Beech&#8217;s stepfather, Raymond Beech, had sexually abused him as a child.

....When BBC Two approached Engle to make the film, she debated whether to say yes, fearful that publicising Beech&#8217;s lies more widely would cause people to feel sceptical when future survivors come forward with allegations of abuse. &#8220;I didn&#8217;t want to tell the story of a liar at the expense of genuine victims of child sexual abuse,&#8221; she explains. But she decided to go for it, first, to show the damage Beech had done to legitimate victim-survivors who might now struggle to have their stories taken seriously.

And second, she says, because the Beech story felt like a necessary one to tell, in our age of social-media-driven social justice movements, which can amplify allegations against public figures at warp speed, before they can be properly investigated by the authorities. Just last month, the Canadian singer Justin Bieber made global headlines after two Twitter users claimed he sexually assaulted them in 2014 and 2015. In one of the nights in question, Bieber did not stay at the hotel where his accuser claimed he assaulted her. Bieber is now suing both women for defamation. &#8220;It is open season for anyone to make a claim, no matter how vile, unsupported and provably false, about anyone without consequence,&#8221; Bieber&#8217;s lawsuit reads.

The Beech story is an extreme example of what happens when abuse allegations are taken at face value by the police and the press, and how that uncritical acceptance can destroy lives. &#8220;It&#8217;s a cautionary tale about the consequences of what happens when a wave of new social awareness comes along, and it can sort of blindside us, so that we are either unable or maybe even frightened to deal with things fairly or objectively,&#8221; Engle says. Part of the reason that police were keen to be taking Beech at his word was because his allegations came shortly after the Jimmy Savile revelations, where horrifying incidents of rape and abuse had been ignored by police for decades. &#8220;Post Savile, post #MeToo, post Black Lives Matter, it feels very relevant now,&#8221; she says.

Perhaps the most moving scene in the documentary comes when Engle interviews the wife and daughter of Raymond Beech, Carl&#8217;s former stepfather. Beech&#8217;s daughter won&#8217;t show her face on camera, even after her father&#8217;s name has been cleared. &#8220;Mud sticks,&#8221; she explains. A whey-faced Proctor is seen in the film saying a similar thing at a press conference shortly after Beech&#8217;s allegations became public. &#8220;I am not a paedophile,&#8221; he insists, as cameras flash. &#8220;Even when you disprove it,&#8221; says Engle, of the allegations, &#8220;people say: &#8216;Oh there&#8217;s no smoke without fire.&#8217; Even now, people say that about this story. And you think: &#8216;Oh my God, how do you ever wash all this mud away? It really sticks to you.&#8217;&#8221;

Why did Beech do it? The film suggests several motives: attention, money (he received a compensation payout for the abuse, which he spent on a Ford Mustang.) &#8220;He had fantasies of wanting to be rich,&#8221; says Engle, explaining that Beech, a nurse-manager in the NHS, put his son down for private school even though hewould never have been able to afford the fees. &#8220;I think that was what might have got him started with the compensation claim. He was also an attention-seeker.&#8221; A more sinister motivation is suggested queasily in the documentary, but never made explicit.

This is Engle&#8217;s 60th film, or thereabouts, in her 32-year career as a director-producer &#8211; she has lost count....

Although Engle is respected in the industry, she doesn&#8217;t have name recognition among the general public. &#8220;My kids are in their early 20s now,&#8221; says Engle. &#8220;For 20 years, I did my job and raced home to cook their tea or bath them or put them to bed. And I do think that makes you quite invisible when everyone else is going to screenings or drinks or industry events. As a woman, you are much less visible.&#8221;

The Unbelievable Story of Carl Beech airs on 24 August at 9pm on BBC Two

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...ration-midland?CMP=twt_a-culture_b-gdnculture
 
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ScreenOrigami;4301726 said:
Check out how they keep testing the waters to normalize their fantasies. :puke:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"The largely well-received French-language pic won the World Cinema Dramatic Directing Award at Sundance this year."<br><br>The same Sundance that promoted the pro-NAMBLA LN and whose co-founder is currently in jail for being a child predator? <a href="https://t.co/LcakoB8bg5">https://t.co/LcakoB8bg5</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/DEADLINE?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Deadline</a></p>— Salazar (@MikeSalazar777) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeSalazar777/status/1296692340501942272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

There’s something fundamentally wrong with Sundance & Co.

It’s like, “let’s try this poster and see if we can get away with it. We can always pull it and apologize if someone complains.”

this whole world going crazy. #savethechildren. :no:
 
What I&#8217;m thinking? Not too much, really. I&#8217;m just observing what&#8217;s happening.
 
Sundance is all bull$#|^ man. We complained about them playing LN, they ignored us and when they have that poster put up and people complained, they apologized. It&#8217;s all downright bull$#|^!:angry:
 
I block everything that's has to do with Sundance. they been on my blocklist since last year after LN. i'm am never looking at their "movies" ever again. they need to be sue also just like hbo etc. sad.
 
NatureCriminal7896;4301747 said:
I block everything that's has to do with Sundance. they been on my blocklist since last year after LN. i'm am never looking at their "movies" ever again. they need to be sue also just like hbo etc. sad.

They&#8217;re already on my H8T list.
 
Vanessa Engle on Carl Beech: 'I didn&#8217;t want to tell the story of a liar at the expense of genuine victims'


I have a problem with this comment. A story should be about the TRUTH no matter what side it falls on. If someone is PROVEN IN COURT OF LAW (NOT public opinion/bias/media) to be an abuser, that story has a right to be told; however, if someone is clearly telling lies about abuse in order to frame/falsely accuse someone, that story needs to be told as well. Is it fair for an INNOCENT man/woman to be falsely accuse and not be able to call out the liars and to defend him/herself? I think NOT. So an INNOCENT person should continue to be falsely accused and the lie to be believe all because someone does not hope it make real victims in other cases from coming forward? That is stupid. That is why people/society need to stop judging cases in a general fashion. LET ALL CASES STAND ON THEIR OWN MERIT unless the case has been proven and then you want to compare two PROVEN guilty cases or two PROVEN innocent cases AFTER the COURT OF law has done its job. If people do this, there will be no need for anyone to fear. I can judge as case and the person and evidence show him/her guilty; and in the same moment, I can see someone else who is innocent and someone who is lying about abuse.
 
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Akon tells it like it is. :)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Akon defending Michael Jackson against Leaving Neverland new interview 8-21-2020 <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tajjackson3</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/DannyMJOliver?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@DannyMJOliver</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/AutumnJoi?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@AutumnJoi</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/IAmBrettBarnes?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@IAmBrettBarnes</a> Wade &amp; James are frauds. Michael Jackson was a cool person the allegations are false - <a href="https://twitter.com/Akon?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Akon</a> - look @ video on YouTube <a href="https://t.co/DTjNVLFH6r">https://t.co/DTjNVLFH6r</a> <a href="https://t.co/m4Wa2lWyQt">pic.twitter.com/m4Wa2lWyQt</a></p>&mdash; Aman (@ayo_amann) <a href="https://twitter.com/ayo_amann/status/1296894654370193411?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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