Albums Dangerous vs Rhythm Nation 1814

These are a few of the more well known albums:

Al B. Sure! ~ In Effect Mode
Guy ~ Guy
Guy ~ The Future
Bell Biv DeVoe ~ Poison
Bobby Brown ~ Don' Be Cruel
Bobby Brown ~ Bobby
New Edition ~ Heartbreak
Keith Sweat ~ Make It Last Forever
Tony! Toni! Toné ~ The Revival
Tevin Campbell ~ T.E.V.I.N.
Damian Dame ~ Damian Dame
Kool Moe Dee ‎~ How Ya Like Me Now
Kool Moe Dee ‎~ Knowledge Is King
Color Me Badd ~ C.M.B.
Heavy D. & The Boyz ‎~ Big Tyme
Troop ~ Troop
Troop ~ Attitude
(this has the remake of the Jackson 5's All I Do Is Think Of You)
Levert ‎– Just Coolin'
Wrecks-N-Effect ~ Wrecks-N-Effect
Sheena Easton ~ The Lover In Me
Babyface ~ Tender Lover
TLC ~ Ooooooohhh... On The TLC Tip
 
Re: New Jack Swing

that was one of michael favorite songs. so it's not surprising he was inspire from it.
It was President Obama's too. He invited them to the White House to perform it.

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Dangerous wins a hundred times... :)
Wins what? It's not a New Jack Swing album. The OP doesn't ask which is a better as an album, but asks why Rhythm Nation is given more props as a New Jack Swing album.
 
DuranDuran;4301155 said:
I already answered that. Why would Dangerous get more recognition as a New Jack Swing album over Janet's, when it is not a New Jack Swing album? It's an album with some NJS songs on it. I'd say Bobby Brown's Don't Be Cruel album would qualify more than Janet's or Mike's album. It's the biggest selling album by an actual New Jack Swing artist, not an act dabbling in it. It's kinda forgotten today because of Bobby's later tabloid stories and his marriage to Whitney Houston, but he was huge back then. His album was selling more in the USA than Mike, Prince, George Michael, Madonna, etc. People got hits just because Bobby was on their song like Glenn Medeiros, similar to Rockwell's Somebody's Watching Me. Bobby wasn't invited to do the theme song for Ghostbusters 2 for nothing.

DuranDuran;4303601 said:
Wins what? It's not a New Jack Swing album. The OP doesn't ask which is a better as an album, but asks why Rhythm Nation is given more props as a New Jack Swing album.

The misconception among many fans that ‘Dangerous’ is a new jack swing album comes also from the fact that this album has carried the description as being the most successful new jack swing album of all time.

For example, American mixing engineer Dave Pensado described the ‘Dangerous’ album as the largest-selling new jack swing record ever (in the Episode with Teddy Riley as a guest).

There were also music reviews of that album (at the time right after its release) that described it as a new jack swing album.

But even more recent music articles still have described the 'Dangerous' album as the most successful new jack swing album of all time (such as, the one written in 2008 by Kelley L. Carter).
 
mj_frenzy;4303629 said:
The misconception among many fans that ‘Dangerous’ is a new jack swing album comes also from the fact that this album has carried the description as being the most successful new jack swing album of all time.

For example, American mixing engineer Dave Pensado described the ‘Dangerous’ album as the largest-selling new jack swing record ever (in the Episode with Teddy Riley as a guest).

There were also music reviews of that album (at the time right after its release) that described it as a new jack swing album.

But even more recent music articles still have described the 'Dangerous' album as the most successful new jack swing album of all time (such as, the one written in 2008 by Kelley L. Carter).
The sales are because it is a Michael Jackson album, so it was promoted worldwide where most actual NJS records didn't get that. New Jack Swing's popularity was primarily in the USA. Also because it's a Michael Jackson album, it continued to sell over the decades since it was first released, which probably didn't happen with Bobby Brown's records. Most of the other NJS albums pretty much just sold at the time. A lot of the albums are out of print, and many NJS artists may only have a greatest hits album out today. I don't think NJS has the same amount of nostalgia as disco either.

From what I've seen, the overseas audience tend to praise songs like Who Is It & Black Or White (
and even Blood On The Dance Floor, which sounds the least like a NJS song) over some of the NJS songs on Dangerous. They aren't really fans of New Jack Swing, they're Michael Jackson fans. If Mike had not recorded the New Jack Swing songs, a lot of the international audience probably wouldn't have heard NJS. It's like how many of the people who bought Graceland by Paul Simon buy records from artists in Africa?
 
DuranDuran;4303651 said:
The sales are because it is a Michael Jackson album, so it was promoted worldwide where most actual NJS records didn't get that. New Jack Swing's popularity was primarily in the USA. Also because it's a Michael Jackson album, it continued to sell over the decades since it was first released, which probably didn't happen with Bobby Brown's records. Most of the other NJS albums pretty much just sold at the time. A lot of the albums are out of print, and many NJS artists may only have a greatest hits album out today. I don't think NJS has the same amount of nostalgia as disco either.

From what I've seen, the overseas audience tend to praise songs like Who Is It & Black Or White (
and even Blood On The Dance Floor, which sounds the least like a NJS song) over some of the NJS songs on Dangerous. They aren't really fans of New Jack Swing, they're Michael Jackson fans. If Mike had not recorded the New Jack Swing songs, a lot of the international audience probably wouldn't have heard NJS. It's like how many of the people who bought Graceland by Paul Simon buy records from artists in Africa?

Apart from the ‘Dangerous’ album itself, it appears that a major factor for the popularization of the new jack swing genre by Michael Jackson to the international audience was these three music videos that he released: ‘Remember The Time’, ‘In The Closet’, and ‘Jam’.

These three music videos during that period were being played incessantly and nearly in every corner of the world (via various music TV channels).

And it was an era when Sony’s policy was to promote extravagantly its big artists through such grandiose music videos with an international TV exposure.
 
mj_frenzy;4303802 said:
Apart from the ‘Dangerous’ album itself, it appears that a major factor for the popularization of the new jack swing genre by Michael Jackson to the international audience was these three music videos that he released: ‘Remember The Time’, ‘In The Closet’, and ‘Jam’.

These three music videos during that period were being played incessantly and nearly in every corner of the world (via various music TV channels).
This is what I was saying. By the time the Dangerous album was released, NJS was several years old in the USA and it's popularity was beginning to go out. If the international audience was just hearing NJS in 1992 or late 1991, that means it didn't really reach much outside of the USA before Mike did it. It seems non-American artists heard it because they recorded it like Boy George & Sheena Easton. Their NJS records came out before Dangerous. Teddy Riley gives Boy George a shout out on the 1989 Wreckx-N-Effect song New Jack Swing.
[video=youtube;uk4T3W88zeU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk4T3W88zeU[/video]
[video=youtube;BVaU4JFqanY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVaU4JFqanY[/video]
 
I always thought "New Jack Swing" wasn't a real thing. It just appears to be a marketing term. When you look it up, there are only a handful of albums, all produced by the same person. As far as I'm concerned, they just invented the term as a form of promotion.

As for which album is better - I'm not really a Janet fan, so I'm biased. I was big into club culture in the 90s, but I've just got her greatest hits, and that's enough for me.
 
I adore both albums and I don't care what they are labeled as. Both albums are amazing classics.
 
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I always thought "New Jack Swing" wasn't a real thing.

Whoa dude. you're late. NJS was real. bobby brown was one of the people who did them. most of them was groups. teddy riley. who work with michael on the dangerous album.

if you're interested look up NJS on youtube and listen to some of them. :)
 
genre

I always thought "New Jack Swing" wasn't a real thing. It just appears to be a marketing term. When you look it up, there are only a handful of albums, all produced by the same person. As far as I'm concerned, they just invented the term as a form of promotion.
I don't need to look it up. I was there when it was popular and New Jack Swing has more than just a handful of albums. Although Teddy Riley became the face of New Jack, he was not the only producer of it. I think Teddy actually made up the name New Jack Swing.

Pretty much all genre names are marketing terms. The names weren't usually made up by the acts doing it. They were mostly made up by the record companies. Artists like Nina Simone & Miles Davis did not really like the term "jazz". They said it was racist. Nina called it "Black classical music". Country music was originally called "hillbilly" by the labels. "Rock n roll" wasn't originally a music genre, it was slang for sex by black people in the USA. It was a white radio DJ named Alan Freed who called the music that. "Rhythm & Blues" as a name was created by one of the heads of Atlantic Records because he wanted to get rid of the term "race music", which he considered bigoted and out of date. Race music had been the official name for music by Black artists.
 
I'm glad the name race music was pull. ridiculous crazy time. alot music was origin from blacks anyway. but history won't tell you that. even today they won't tell you that and they get mad. smh.
 
Its too hard to compare them, RN1814 is from 1989 and sounds like it. Dangerous has a late 1991 sound and is so much more than NJS.

In fact calling either album NJS is cheapening it. To me I think NJS I think of New Edition, BBD, Devante swing, Johnny Gill and Bobby Brown and songs like Just got paid by Johnny Kemp (Maybe we should called it New Edition Jack swing) and guys with high top fades and those hammer poo pants.

RN1814 is a lot of funky cuts like Blackcat, Alright, Love will never do without you and many nice sexy ballads, it has the Jam and Lewis sound through and through and in many ways sounds a lot like 1986's control but with more rappy/hip hop touches. Janet's voice has matured and dominated though.

Dangerous is a masterclass in pop, funk, R&B and some of his finest ballads ever. The only weaker songs are Black and White, the long vocal intro is cloying and the song does not go much beyond a hook. She drives me wild and can't let her get away are fillers but good ones. The rest is woven gold. Who is it, Give into me, Will you be there, Keep the faith, Gone too soon and the title cut are probably Michael's best ever songs. Sure there are some higher points on Bad and HIStory, but Bad is too dated sounding in some ways and HIStory is a bit too long and loopy in parts, Dangerous strikes the perfect mix.

Both albums have endured to this day and stand up as monuments to what the greatest pop music was like around 1990. Whereas most New Jack Swing is forgotten and has very little memorability say next to 80s rap, funk, the Minneapolis sound and even the post disco romantic soul movement like Luther Vandross and Shalamar.
 
Finally I would say as great as RN1814 is, Dangerous eclipses it any day and was the best album of 1991 and 1992 (Its release was so late into 1991) its hard to guess what year it is from. Michael may have worked on it in 1989/90/91 but its hit impact was felt all through 1992 and well into 1993. Give into me was a number one hit here in NZ in March/April 1993 and Gone too soon only left the charts around September 1993.
 
Finally I would say as great as RN1814 is, Dangerous eclipses it any day and was the best album of 1991 and 1992 (Its release was so late into 1991) its hard to guess what year it is from. Michael may have worked on it in 1989/90/91 but its hit impact was felt all through 1992 and well into 1993. Give into me was a number one hit here in NZ in March/April 1993 and Gone too soon only left the charts around September 1993.

Indeed, the album had a real lengthy life. It left the Billboard 200 as late as February 1994!
 
Re: genre

Although Teddy Riley became the face of New Jack, he was not the only producer of it. I think Teddy actually made up the name New Jack Swing.

Pretty much all genre names are marketing terms. The names weren't usually made up by the acts doing it. They were mostly made up by the record companies.
That's what I'm getting at. It's over-categorised. This term doesn't mean anything, it's just used to promote something as being unique when it isn't. They're just trying to create a niche.

It's even stranger using a label for Dangerous, because it's too broad. There are at least 5 different genres on there.
 
Re: genre

That's what I'm getting at. It's over-categorised. This term doesn't mean anything, it's just used to promote something as being unique when it isn't. They're just trying to create a niche.
It does mean something. If I go into a record store and want to buy a death metal album, I'm not going to look in the classical music section. There's no New Jack Swing section, it would be in the R&B section. But it describes a certain style of R&B. Just like funk, soul, southern soul, neo-soul, disco, electrofunk, go-go, quiet storm, etc. does. Go-go does not sound like neo-soul, but they're both part of the rhythm & blues family. Many genres have sub-genres like that. Some listeners might like one sub genre and not another. There were a lot of older R&B fans who did not like New Jack Swing and thought it killed traditional R&B and R&B bands on the radio. Someone who likes jazz rap or conscious hip hop might put down gangsta rap for promoting negative messages. It's all hip hop, but not exactly the same thing.
 
Re: genre

That's what I'm getting at. It's over-categorised. This term doesn't mean anything, it's just used to promote something as being unique when it isn't. They're just trying to create a niche.

It's even stranger using a label for Dangerous, because it's too broad. There are at least 5 different genres on there.

It does mean something. If I go into a record store and want to buy a death metal album, I'm not going to look in the classical music section. There's no New Jack Swing section, it would be in the R&B section. But it describes a certain style of R&B. Just like funk, soul, southern soul, neo-soul, disco, electrofunk, go-go, quiet storm, etc. does. Go-go does not sound like neo-soul, but they're both part of the rhythm & blues family. Many genres have sub-genres like that. Some listeners might like one sub genre and not another. There were a lot of older R&B fans who did not like New Jack Swing and thought it killed traditional R&B and R&B bands on the radio. Someone who likes jazz rap or conscious hip hop might put down gangsta rap for promoting negative messages. It's all hip hop, but not exactly the same thing.

New Jack Swing is a fusion genre, rather than a sub-genre of R&B.

New Jack Swing as a fusion genre combines elements of different, main genres (dance, rap, soul, pop, disco, rhythm and blues, etc) into a new, unique one.

So, the New Jack Swing term did not come as a result of promoting something as being unique when it is not.

Also, record stores place the New Jack Swing albums in their R&B section just for practical purposes, but this does not mean that New Jack Swing belongs to R&B or that it is a certain style of R&B.
 
Re: genre

Also, record stores place the New Jack Swing albums in their R&B section just for practical purposes, but this does not mean that New Jack Swing belongs to R&B or that it is a certain style of R&B.
But NJS was first played on R&B radio stations and recorded by R&B artists and then crossed over. So it's R&B just like funk is. If it was a genre into itself then there would have been NJS only stations. There wasn't any. I suppose you're gonna say next that bluegrass is not a part of country music and thrash is not a part of metal. :laughing: In jazz music, there's fusion/jazz rock, free jazz, smooth jazz, bop, swing, soul jazz, spiritual jazz, etc. They're all jazz.
 
Re: genre

Go-go does not sound like neo-soul
I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I have no idea what either of these are.

Like I say, it's been over-categorised to try to create a brand. With broad genres like rock, dance and classical, everybody knows what they are. With something like "new jack swing", I'd bet some people who like it wouldn't know what that was unless you told them.

And there's nothing worse than somebody who says "this isn't metal, it's new-wave speed-thrash death-core!" If you laid out a record store like that, nobody would ever find anything. I already have a hard time thinking "where the hell have they put Giants In The Trees?"
 
neo-soul / go-go

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I have no idea what either of these are.
Neo-soul is like Butterflies & Heaven Can Wait from the Invincible album. It's mostly a kinda of mid-tempo and slow jam kind of R&B. The singers tend to have an Afrocentric kind of image and/or song lyrics. Some neo-soul artists are Erykah Badu, Floetry (who wrote Butterflies), D'angelo, Maxwell, Jill Scott, & Anthony Hamilton.

Go-go is a style of R&B music from Washington DC. That's where it is primarily popular. It's more popular live than as records. Studio recorded go-go generally doesn't capture the energy and call & response it does in concert. It never really became popular nationwide in the USA. A few songs have become chart hits though like Da Butt by the band E.U. The rap hits Shake Your Thang by Salt-N-Pepa and Rollin' With Kid n Play have a go-go sound. Go-go is percussion based and has a unique kind of beat. The most known go-go act is Chuck Brown & The Soul Searchers. They have a song called Ashley's Roachclip that has been sampled a lot. But their biggest hit is Bustin' Loose. It didn't crossover, but was an R&B hit single in the 1970s. The younger audience might know it as Nelly's Hot In Herre, which is based on Bustin' Loose. Here's a book about go-go.
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