Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Tygger;3919570 said:

Passy001, you will have to show me where in my post I said AEG “has to pay billions while Conrad Murray roams around milking off of MJ.” I never said AEG killed Michael. I said there were three parties to Michael's passing.

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Go and read your own posts. all the answers are there.

Do you remember Phillips’ email after Michael passed? "Michael Jackson's death was a tragedy. Life must go on. AEG will make a fortune from merchandise sales, ticket retention, the touring exhibition and the film/DVD. I still wish he was here."

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AEG could not have sold all this stuff without the approval of the MJ estate and the probate court. MJ owed AEG millions of dollars in production fees already. so AEG had to recoup that money back or they would have lodged a creditor claim with the MJ estate or worse sue the MJ estate.

A reminder: there are four plaintiffs.

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there real plaintiff is KJ. she dragged the kids without their consent in order to gain jury sympathy. so the kids never volunteered to be part of this mess. but as we found out it did not work. nor will it ever work in any form of conceivable appeal.

@Tygger, I don't believe the general public are concerned about Michael in a caring way but I don't think they are interested. Michael was an enigma to many, someone they couldn't understand for figure out so I think some would be interested. And then, as I said earlier, I believe there are a great many who love a good tragedy, or anything juicy and it will appeal to those.

Generally speaking here, but Katherine is 83? Don't people think it's time to move on? An appeal is hard to win and I think she should enjoy her years left and with her family. Not courtrooms and lawyers. Despite how I feel about things I don't think Michael imagined that for his mom at her age. The estate looks after her and the kids. She is well taken care of and probably has more than a lot of people her age.

All I am trying to say is let Michael rest in peace. We know how he died and who did it. That was Murray. He had Michael's life in his hands and he was too busy doing this and that and talking to like 3 girlfriends and not watching Michael. Nobody told Murray to do that he chose to do that. They took a big chance going after AEG and dropped restitution against Murray. It didn't work out and now Murray is getting out soon to do whatever he pleases. I dread this and I feel like nobody cares what he is going to do.

Tygger;3919709 said:

Last Tear, there should be no surprise in my response. laughs

If the general public is not concerned with Michael, they are surely not concerned with the thoughts and feelings of his killer. They were not concerned the doctor served time for involuntary manslaughter either. Some of Michael’s fans are concerned with the doctor’s thoughts and feelings particularly if it is a negative thought or feeling about Michael’s family. The media knows that some fans will pay attention to Michael’s killer for whatever reason and have generated profits from it.

What is baffling is it does not seem to matter that this same man did not show an iota of concern for Michael and this lack of concern killed Michael. Some fans will still listen to him which supports him and it is utterly illogical to me.

Sullivan experienced support from some fans when excerpts from his book appeared in Vanity Fair. Some fans support his negative portrayal of Michael’s family. When the book was released, some fans discovered the negative portrayal of Michael outweighed the negative portrayal of Michael’s family. Some of those same fans who supported Sullivan then launched a successful campaign which denounced his book and hindered sales.

Michael always thanked his fans for their support and generosity to him. Fans have power.

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I find it strange that you say this about the fans and expect them to prevent Murray from profiting, but not his family. They had the power to to make it a lot harder for him to profit, but instead preferred a bigger damages amount from AEG. Isn't that baffling to you, especially considering their claims about justice?!

serendipity said:

I find it strange that you say this about the fans and expect them to prevent Murray from profiting, but not his family. They had the power to to make it a lot harder for him to profit, but instead preferred a bigger damages amount from AEG. Isn't that baffling to you, especially considering their claims about justice?!

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I'm not surprised at all. MJ's family is shady like that. That is why he loved his fans so much and sought out other families because of what he lacked from his own home.. Any loving parent would've went after their son's killer with avengeance but not Katherine.. When MJ first died and the cause of death and the killer was announced the family never showed outrage or anger at all. Tito was talking about forgiving Murray and Janet,Randy and Rebbie was talking about drug interventions and denials. Not one of them sought to punish Murray. Latoya and Joe was talking 'fall guy' remember? Murray killed MJ and didn't give a damn about him. He knew what he was doing was wrong and unethical. 4 years later he is still denying guilt and he's shown absolutely no sorrow or remorse for his actions. So why is Katherine caring about Murray's kids, when Murray didn't give a crap about her son or PP&B?

"Scream"
(By Michael Jackson)

Tired of injustice
Tired of the schemes
The lies are disgusting
So what does it mean
Kicking me down
I got to get up
As jacked as it sounds
The whole system sucks

Peek in the shadow
Come into the light
You tell me I'm wrong
Then you better prove you're right
You're sellin' out souls but
I care about mine
I've got to get stronger
And I won't give up the fight

With such confusions don't it make you wanna scream
Your bash abusin' victimize within the scheme

You try to cope with every lie they scrutinize

Somebody please have mercy
'Cause I just can't take it

Just read the Jackson family want a new trial to fo froward :doh:

Passy001, when in doubt, respond with rudeness, eh? I know what my post said so I know you will not be able to show me. Please note that recouping pre-production costs and generating profit from TII are two separate things. AEG did not have to, as per Phillips: “make a fortune from merchandise sales, ticket retention, the touring exhibition and the film/DVD” to recoup pre-production costs. There are four plaintiffs and no one will be able to spin that.

Serendipity, if the Jacksons received restitution, would it then somehow be acceptable to support the doctor if he chose to profit from his fatal crime? Whether they sought restitution or rejected it, I am not going to support that doctor! Their choice has nothing to do with my personal choice. Everyone is free to make their own choices. I simply choose NO whenever, whatever, wherever the man that killed Michael is concerned.

Last Tear, I personally do not find Michael's killer to be a piece of entertaining gossip or such however, I understand your point. If the general public is intrigued by Michael and in turn his killer, fine. It does not explain why some fans are concerned with the doctor’s thoughts or feelings and are hopeful for him to seek avenues to profit from his fatal crime. He may very well get his licenses back. Restitution cannot prevent that and that is not the Jacksons' fault.

Please see the below article from TMZ. Many did believe the doctor was overcharged because of Michael and should have been charged with malpractice. Notice also the comments about him being fit and/or competent.

Dr. Conrad Murray will make his move after his release from jail in 2 weeks ... and sources tell TMZ, he's vowing to break back into the business of doctoring.

Sources directly connected with Murray tell us ... he plans to fight the revocation of his license in Texas. As for California ... revocation proceedings are on hold, but we're told he will fight that as well -- partly on grounds that he was singled out for unfair treatment because the patient -- Michael Jackson -- was incredibly famous.

Fact is ... Murray has practiced for 20 years and aside from the Propofol disaster, his record is unblemished. In fact, Murray has a legion of loyal patients who actually demonstrated on his behalf and were more than willing to fly from Texas to California to support him in court.

Murray is also taking solace in the fact that the jury in the MJ wrongful death trial concluded AEG was not off base in hiring him because he was a competent general practitioner.

Short story -- Murray has a built-in patient base if he can get his license back.
http://www.tmz.com/2013/10/16/dr-co...texas-medical-board-revocation/#ixzz2i98AXwLV
Visit Fishwrapper: http://www.fishwrapper.com

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Tygger;3919800 said:

Passy001, when in doubt, respond with rudeness, eh? I know what my post said so I know you will not be able to show me. Please note that recouping pre-production costs and generating profit from TII are two separate things. AEG did not have to, as per Phillips: “make a fortune from merchandise sales, ticket retention, the touring exhibition and the film/DVD” to recoup pre-production costs. There are four plaintiffs and no one will be able to spin that.

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AEG made a profit in a legal manner with the court approval and with the MJ estate approval. there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

And it certainly does not make AEG responsible for MJ death.

Passy001, I know what I wrote and that is why you still have not been able to show me that I said anything you suggested I said.

Again, I never said AEG profiting from Michael's passing made them responsible for Michael's passing.

Again, I said there were three parties to Michael's passing.

passy001 said:

there real plaintiff is KJ. she dragged the kids without their consent in order to gain jury sympathy. so the kids never volunteered to be part of this mess. but as we found out it did not work. nor will it ever work in any form of conceivable appeal.

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Passy, I have to add a bit of info to your post. There are 4 plaintiffs, KJ is the front, then there are gang of granny-nappers (Randy, Jermaine and Rebbie) un-official, hiding behing their mothers behind plaintiffs. Because those losers couldn't file lawsuit themselves, they made KJ to front to suit, and she was adviced to add kids names just for getting more money out of AEG in case they win and make this case more viable.


I find it a bit rich certain fans accusing AEG making profit, but those fans turn blind eye on family money making schemes and exploitation of MJ and his kids. I could make a list of family schemes since MJ's passing but I don't have time to spend a day listing all they crappy things they have done since Michael's passing, which includes selling MJ' kids to porn producer, the same kids who are "plaintiffs" in this case.

LastTear said:

@Tygger I disagree (surprise, surprise) the amount of money Murray makes on Michael is not in the power of Michael's fans, for example: I have no power to stop Murray being paid an advance for a book etc. IMO the general public are engrossed in digging for dirt on celebrities and they love nothing more than a good old fashioned melt down or tragedy - you think they would not be interested to hear all that Murray has to say?

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I was wondering why fans even try to stop CM profiting of his crime?
Family seems to be ok with CM getting away, as they have done nothing to stop him, so why fans should do anything? If it is ok with family, it should be ok to fans too?

Tygger said:

Passy001, I know what I wrote and that is why you still have not been able to show me that I said anything you suggested I said.

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Again, all the answers are in your own posts.

Again, I never said AEG profiting from Michael's passing made them responsible for Michael's passing.

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Then why bitching about AEG making a profit off MJ passing?

Again, I said there were three parties to Michael's passing.

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Again, AEG has nothing to do with MJ death.

marebear said:

Generally speaking here, but Katherine is 83? Don't people think it's time to move on? An appeal is hard to win and I think she should enjoy her years left and with her family. Not courtrooms and lawyers. Despite how I feel about things I don't think Michael imagined that for his mom at her age. The estate looks after her and the kids. She is well taken care of and probably has more than a lot of people her age.

All I am trying to say is let Michael rest in peace. We know how he died and who did it. That was Murray. He had Michael's life in his hands and he was too busy doing this and that and talking to like 3 girlfriends and not watching Michael. Nobody told Murray to do that he chose to do that. They took a big chance going after AEG and dropped restitution against Murray. It didn't work out and now Murray is getting out soon to do whatever he pleases. I dread this and I feel like nobody cares what he is going to do.

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The real tragedy is that KJ, under siege by her own curbs, will spend the rest of her life litigating for money. not exactly what MJ had planned.

@Tygger

Last Tear, I personally do not find Michael's killer to be a piece of entertaining gossip or such however, I understand your point. If the general public is intrigued by Michael and in turn his killer, fine. It does not explain why some fans are concerned with the doctor’s thoughts or feelings and are hopeful for him to seek avenues to profit from his fatal crime. He may very well get his licenses back. Restitution cannot prevent that and that is not the Jacksons' fault.

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I wonder if you might be misinterpreting some fans, I haven't seen anywhere any fans showing hope that Murray sells his story and profits off his crime. He might indeed get his licences back and you are right that's not the Jacksons fault, but I actually haven't seen anyone say that it would be their fault though.

ETA Thinking more about Bubs post below. I guess the fans you are referring to are the ones who support Katherine's decision not to go after restitution. Are those fans the ones you meant who are keen for Murray to profit from his crime?

Bubs;3919815 said:

I was wondering why fans even try to stop CM profiting of his crime?
Family seems to be ok with CM getting away, as they have done nothing to stop him, so why fans should do anything? If it is ok with family, it should be ok to fans too?

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They always leave it to Michaels fans to do the dirty old leg work. I see your point, some fans can't have it all ways.

Someone who knew Michael personally once told me that Michael loved his fans even more than he loved his family - And I believe them.

Tygger said:

Krikzil, Gerryevans, there is no testimony or evidence that stated Michael knew these doctors were unethical. There is testimony that stated Michael was told it was dangerous and he replied it was safe if he was monitored. There is also testimony that stated Michael trusted these doctors.

Gerryevans, I simply disagree. I agree with Jamba in that the doctor was not Michael's primary choice to administer propofol; the doctor was who he was left with.

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Why was Murray the doctor he was left with if it was not an unethical treatment?
MJ wasn't an idiot. He didn't need anyone to explicit say to him, if a doctor gives you propofol for sleep, he's an unethical doctor. They explicitly did tell him of its dangers, explicitly should not be used as a sleep remedy, and the ethical doctors refused to give it to him for those reasons.

And if MJ was told of its dangers, knew it was not a sleep remedy, and you feel he still didn't realize it was an unethical treatment for the setting and purposes he wanted it for, why should his promoters be held liable when they knew absolutely nothing about it?

Tygger said:

Serendipity, if the Jacksons received restitution, would it then somehow be acceptable to support the doctor if he chose to profit from his fatal crime? Whether they sought restitution or rejected it, I am not going to support that doctor! Their choice has nothing to do with my personal choice. Everyone is free to make their own choices. I simply choose NO whenever, whatever, wherever the man that killed Michael is concerned.

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Tygger, that wasn't my question. I asked you aren't you baffled by the family's choice to go after more money instead of having the actual opportunity to prevent MJ's killer from profiting from his death? It's a simple question. I'm not asking for your choice, I'm asking how do you feel about the family's choice, since it's strange to me how you're so baffled by the fans, but the family's choice to just let him freely profit so they can get bigger money, doesn't seem to baffle you at all.

Passy001, you are not going to be successful here. Again: if it was in my post, you would have simply re-quoted it but, you cannot. Replying to your posts is only fueling your responses so I will simply wait for your next rude reply in lieu of the re-quote.

Gerryevans, there is no testimony or evidence stating Michael knew any doctor was unethical. If your intuition, common sense, and life experiences lead you to believe Michael knew any doctor was unethical that is fine however, mine does not. To your point, if Michael did believe the doctor was unethical, it does not absolve AEG and it portrays Michael as deceptive and maybe even fraudulent.

AEG did not vet the doctor and they did not need to know about any treatment the doctor used as it was privileged information. Phillips and Gongaware testified they did not recall if the doctor was there to treat Michael’s sleep issues. That is not a yes or no; it is neutral. AEG only needed to know that the doctor was conflicted and that they could control that conflicted doctor to get Michael to rehearsal (and retrieve medical records for insurance purposes) and I believe they did.

Serendipity, I answered your question. The Jacksons’ choice to reject restitution does not affect my choice to NOT support the doctor if he chooses to profit from his fatal crime. Whether any possible monies went to the Jacksons through restitution or directly to the doctor, there is no difference for me as I will NOT support him.

I also said previously that I believe Katherine wanted to expose AEG as a third party in her son’s passing. She was half way there as the plaintiffs did prove AEG hired the doctor. Some still focused on the billions that the plaintiffs had NO guarantee they would receive even WITH a successful verdict.

Maybe you can respond to that; why was case pursued if no monies were guaranteed?

They always leave it to Michaels fans to do the dirty old leg work. I see your point, some fans can't have it all ways.

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Last Tear, I was clear I do believe some fans are hoping the doctor will attempt to profit from his fatal crime and I have read such posts. Your response seems to twist that a bit. I am baffled by your comment I re-quoted above. Fans made Michael a success and he was always grateful for that. The Jackson family could not solely support Michael to the level of success he achieved. The Jackson family will most likely not purchase anything the doctor would possibly peddle to profit from his fatal crime.

If the Jacksons will not support the doctor, who remains to support the doctor? It will not solely be the general public who is not particularly concerned. Some fans will play a part as they have.

Forgive me: I personally would not trust anyone who would tell another that Michael loved his fans more than his own family but, I understand if you do. Too much of an agenda there for me.

something to do with being a family supporter who will down play and defend their antics 24/7 no matter what it does to mj and his kids.. u are all going round in circles. its ruining this intresting thread imo. dont waste your time

serendipity said:

Tygger, that wasn't my question. I asked you aren't you baffled by the family's choice to go after more money instead of having the actual opportunity to prevent MJ's killer from profiting from his death? It's a simple question. I'm not asking for your choice, I'm asking how do you feel about the family's choice, since it's strange to me how you're so baffled by the fans, but the family's choice to just let him freely profit so they can get bigger money, doesn't seem to baffle you at all.

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@Tygger, I have not seen any posts that remotely appear to be fans wishing Murray would profit. There was more to my response than the part you posted, which in fact was in response to a post by Bubs. The only fans that I could see that could possibly be accepting of Murray profiting would be those who support the Jacksons in NOT accepting restitution.

Elusive Moonwalker, you are correct. Let us return to the countless posts about the so-called "greedy Jacksons" and assigning them random blame among other sports.

Interesting how those activities are never considered distracting and are always relevant to any and all discussions for some.

Last Tear, you are incorrect. I have no issue with the family rejecting restitution AND I will not support the doctor's possible profit from his fatal crime. Several posters who were against the Jacksons' rejection of restitution have already blamed the Jacksons for the doctor's possible profit from his fatal crime via a predicted book and other similar activities. Those posts are still in this subforum for your review.

Tygger;3919688 said:

Gerryevans, I simply disagree. I agree with Jamba in that the doctor was not Michael's primary choice to administer propofol; the doctor was who he was left with.

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gerryevans;3919820 said:

Why was Murray the doctor he was left with if it was not an unethical treatment?

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Tygger;3919985 said:

Gerryevans, there is no testimony or evidence stating Michael knew any doctor was unethical. If your intuition, common sense, and life experiences lead you to believe Michael knew any doctor was unethical that is fine however, mine does not.

AEG did not vet the doctor and they did not need to know about any treatment the doctor used as it was privileged information. Phillips and Gongaware testified they did not recall if the doctor was there to treat Michael’s sleep issues. That is not a yes or no; it is neutral. AEG only needed to know that the doctor was conflicted and that they could control that conflicted doctor to get Michael to rehearsal (and retrieve medical records for insurance purposes) and I believe they did.

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Tygger, that’s a dodge on the Murray question. And I’ve got a feeling not only have our life experiences been different, but one of us has had more extensive experiences. Don’t know if that’s good or bad. But perhaps it explains why I don’t believe Dr. Conrad Murray was conflicted AT ALL. He got lucky with MJ's interest in him and took full advantage of the situation. He was an opportunist who saw MJ's desperation and calculated how to best serve his interests. He stockpiled proprofol, wouldn’t administer it until he was assured he was getting a deal, and then proceeded to systematically debilitate MJ and make him dependent on him. I don't think he debilitated him purposely, but his actions on June 25th showed he definitely didn't give a d@mn about him. He manipulated both sides of the TII equation. AEG and no one else could have possibly known he was the lowlife he is, even MJ. A bad credit rating certainly wouldn’t have revealed it.

elusive moonwalker;3919998 said:

u are all going round in circles. its ruining this intresting thread imo. dont waste your time

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Elusive, I agree about going around in circles. It is a merry go around. But sometimes, just when you’re about to hop off, you see a comment that has you hang on for a little longer.

Tygger, IMO has been one of the reasons the thread has been interesting. No one has hung onto the merry go around more steadfastly with opposing opinion and rationale, and even though that rationale can have me head scratching at times, I think the perspective has been helpful, especially considering nearly half of this community who voted in our poll share Tygger’s opinion about AEG’s liability, and that has not been reflected in the five months of discussion here of the case.

No one here supports Murray but him doing whatever and saying whatever against Michael is wrong. It has nothing to do with AEG or the Jacksons. How many times do people get away with this and we wish there were laws or something to stop people from doing that? Restitution against Murray would have helped.

I don't want to hear anything from him. I don't want read he did this interview and said he loved Michael. I don't want to see pictures of him laughing when Michael is buried at Forest Lawn. I don't want to hear him say he is writing a book. We don't have to pay attention to anything he does but the fact that he will have the opportunity to basically trash Michael who is the VICTIM here is disgusting. Whether you like the Jacksons or not the fact is that they had the opportunity to do that for Michael. To make sure he doesn't profit of killing him. He killed Michael and it feels like it is no big deal. I guess I am in the minority here but it feels so wrong to me.

How can you have no issue with the family rejecting restitution, but have an issue with the fans? I can't take seriously your "I don't want Murray to profit" claims when you have no issue with the family letting him freely to profit. To me there's no logic in that.

gerryevans;3920027 said:

Tygger, that’s a dodge on the Murray question. And I’ve got a feeling not only have our life experiences been different, but one of us has had more extensive experiences. Don’t know if that’s good or bad. But perhaps it explains why I don’t believe Dr. Conrad Murray was conflicted AT ALL. He got lucky with MJ's interest in him and took full advantage of the situation. He was an opportunist who saw MJ's desperation and calculated how to best serve his interests. He stockpiled proprofol, wouldn’t administer it until he was assured he was getting a deal, and then proceeded to systematically debilitate MJ and make him dependent on him. I don't think he debilitated him purposely, but his actions on June 25th showed he definitely didn't give a d@mn about him. He manipulated both sides of the TII equation. AEG and no one else could have possibly known he was the lowlife he is, even MJ. A bad credit rating certainly wouldn’t have revealed it.



Elusive, I agree about going around in circles. It is a merry go around. But sometimes, just when you’re about to hop off, you see a comment that has you hang on for a little longer.

Tygger, IMO has been one of the reasons the thread has been interesting. No one has hung onto the merry go around more steadfastly with opposing opinion and rationale, and even though that rationale can have me head scratching at times, I think the perspective has been helpful, especially considering nearly half of this community who voted in our poll share Tygger’s opinion about AEG’s liability, and that has not been reflected in the five months of discussion here of the case.

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Well, I agree Tygger has been 'steadfast' but what is frustrating is that you never get anywhere--just a repeat of what was said before--so IDK how 'interesting' that is, but I agree that it is a good thing that someone with an alternate viewpoint has joined the thread from start to finish. There have been others but I think they ended up insulting the other posters and the entire forum, so they got banned. I appreciate that Tygger has stayed away from that approach. What ever happened to Bouee btw???

Seems to me that the anti-AEG faction of the MJ fans can't handle the verdict or the lack of evidence that AEG should have known, etc, so they just get into what IMO are outlandish theories (like RP was there the night MJ died telling CM what to do or that Wade Robson is being paid by AEG to make those charges, etc). They even think that Juror #27 is an AEG plant, along with most of us of course.

marebear said:

No one here supports Murray but him doing whatever and saying whatever against Michael is wrong. It has nothing to do with AEG or the Jacksons. How many times do people get away with this and we wish there were laws or something to stop people from doing that? Restitution against Murray would have helped.

I don't want to hear anything from him. I don't want read he did this interview and said he loved Michael. I don't want to see pictures of him laughing when Michael is buried at Forest Lawn. I don't want to hear him say he is writing a book. We don't have to pay attention to anything he does but the fact that he will have the opportunity to basically trash Michael who is the VICTIM here is disgusting. Whether you like the Jacksons or not the fact is that they had the opportunity to do that for Michael. To make sure he doesn't profit of killing him. He killed Michael and it feels like it is no big deal. I guess I am in the minority here but it feels so wrong to me.

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Yes!!! Beautiful!!

I am sure I'm in the minority; however, NO ONE will EVER make me believe that Katherine filed this lawsuit against AEG for "justice" for Michael. She attempted to SETTLE several times and was turned down by AEG. Why would a mother seeking "justice"want to settle? IF she wanted to expose AEG, why want to settle? It doesn't make any sense. Why not want restitution from the REAL killer, Conrad Murray? This lawsuit was about MONEY for her "cubs" (grown children) to have to take care of them for the rest of their lives. That's the bottomline and it is a shame that the Jackson Family supporters refuse to see that. I have said this many time and I will say it again, AEG are son-of-a-bitches, but they did not kill Michael, Conrad Murray's negligence and incompetence is the cause of Michael's death. The verdict was correct.

marebear said:

No one here supports Murray but him doing whatever and saying whatever against Michael is wrong. It has nothing to do with AEG or the Jacksons. How many times do people get away with this and we wish there were laws or something to stop people from doing that? Restitution against Murray would have helped.

I don't want to hear anything from him. I don't want read he did this interview and said he loved Michael. I don't want to see pictures of him laughing when Michael is buried at Forest Lawn. I don't want to hear him say he is writing a book. We don't have to pay attention to anything he does but the fact that he will have the opportunity to basically trash Michael who is the VICTIM here is disgusting. Whether you like the Jacksons or not the fact is that they had the opportunity to do that for Michael. To make sure he doesn't profit of killing him. He killed Michael and it feels like it is no big deal. I guess I am in the minority here but it feels so wrong to me.

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No, you are not in the minority. I feel the same way. Michael's family is giving his murderer a free pass to get out of jail and make MONEY by saying anything he wants. You can bet the Jackson family will not say anything in defense of Michael. They will sit back and ALLOW the murderer, Conrad Murray, to say what he wants. Seriously, They sold out Michael when he was alive and they will do it again FOR MONEY.

marebear said:

Whether you like the Jacksons or not the fact is that they had the opportunity to do that for Michael. To make sure he doesn't profit of killing him. He killed Michael and it feels like it is no big deal. I guess I am in the minority here but it feels so wrong to me.

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you aren't the minority here IMO. It does feel like Murray was given a free pass because there was a bigger fish to fry.

serendipity said:

How can you have no issue with the family rejecting restitution, but have an issue with the fans? I can't take seriously your "I don't want Murray to profit" claims when you have no issue with the family letting him freely to profit. To me there's no logic in that.

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and I don't get the focus on the fans. Not everything will be in the hands of the fans, there will be a public as well. Katherine explained herself as she believed Murray had several kids and his money would be needed on his kids. Logically asking how does anyone or Katherine expect Murray to earn any money? His medical licenses are suspended and probably would be revoked for good - if/when his appeal hopefully gets denied. So he can't earn money from being a doctor - unless I guess he leaves US and becomes a doctor in another country. So I'm curious in that regard that what income source does people expect Murray to have other than trying to profit from Michael? Are you really expecting him for example to get a 9 to 5 job making minimum wage? and if the logic is "support Katherine" then why are the fans expected to go against Katherine's wishes of allowing Murray to earn money for his kids?

jamba said:

Well, I agree Tygger has been 'steadfast that it is a good thing that someone with an alternate viewpoint has joined the thread from start to finish. There have been others but I think they ended up insulting the other posters and the entire forum, so they got banned. I appreciate that Tygger has stayed away from that approach. What ever happened to Bouee btw???

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I agree that an alternative viewpoint that makes a discussion interesting and even heated but there's nothing interesting in the same things being repeated and everything the opposite side saying being rejected. That's not really a discussion and it had been a serious turn off for me.

There haven't been many banned. Only one person was banned in connection to this topic which was before the trial started and that was because they were talking negatively about MJJC, staff and members- it got nothing to do with their opinions on the trial. As Gaz says this is like our home, you can't really expect to be welcome here if you are disrespecting the other people in this home. Other than that a few people were given temporary time outs just to give them time to calm down. Banning is really the last resort on MJJC.

Seems to me that the anti-AEG faction of the MJ fans can't handle the verdict or the lack of evidence that AEG should have known, etc, so they just get into what IMO are outlandish theories (like RP was there the night MJ died telling CM what to do or that Wade Robson is being paid by AEG to make those charges, etc). They even think that Juror #27 is an AEG plant, along with most of us of course.

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u realized that? I mean I can't believe it, for some people everything - and I mean literally everything - is a conspiracy. what I don't get it is these people know and cherish that the legal system in America determined Michael was innocent - hence worked as it should in the past. But now that there is a verdict they don't agree with the system and everyone in it (lawyers, judge, jury) and the fans with opposing views are either corrupt or bought. It's a little cuckoo for my taste.

somewhereinthedark said:

I am sure I'm in the minority; however, NO ONE will EVER make me believe that Katherine filed this lawsuit against AEG for "justice" for Michael. She attempted to SETTLE several times and was turned down by AEG. Why would a mother seeking "justice"want to settle? IF she wanted to expose AEG, why want to settle? It doesn't make any sense. Why not want restitution from the REAL killer, Conrad Murray?

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minority? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure most people would agree with the above portion. Jacksons offering two settlements that would be paid by AEG's insurance had been a very interesting bit of information and yes it does make me question the seeking truth and justice claims. On the other hand AEG never considering or offering settlement is also another interesting bit of information.

gerryevans;3920027 said:

Tygger, IMO has been one of the reasons the thread has been interesting. No one has hung onto the merry go around more steadfastly with opposing opinion and rationale, and even though that rationale can have me head scratching at times, I think the perspective has been helpful, especially considering nearly half of this community who voted in our poll share Tygger’s opinion about AEG’s liability, and that has not been reflected in the five months of discussion here of the case.

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jamba;3920048 said:

Well, I agree Tygger has been 'steadfast' but what is frustrating is that you never get anywhere--just a repeat of what was said before--so IDK how 'interesting' that is, but I agree that it is a good thing that someone with an alternate viewpoint has joined the thread from start to finish.

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Gerryevans, Jamba, that was kind. Thank you.

Jamba, while you may feel I have been repetitious, I am one poster expressing my own view that I have to continually defend against several posters who do not agree thus, repetition. From the opposite side, I have read the same, shared concept restated countless times by several posters. It would have been amusing and a much shorter thread if those who agreed with each other nominated a spokesperson for their views.

I believe Bouee would have made a great juror and had great posts with detailed evidence and testimony. I understand why Bouee may have felt the need to remove him/herself from the discussion. I do wonder how Bouee felt about the verdict.

Gerryevans, you asked me why Michael was left with the doctor if it was not an unethical treatment. Adams agreed to join TII however the doctor prevented him from joining. That question is still not the same as saying Michael knew the doctor was unethical and I have said there is no evidence that Michael knew the doctor was unethical. I also said, to your point, if Michael knew the doctor was unethical, he was deceptive and possibly fraudulent. That still does not absolve AEG from their actions and responsibilities when they decided they would indeed hire the doctor.

perhaps it explains why I don’t believe Dr. Conrad Murray was conflicted AT ALL. He got lucky with MJ's interest in him and took full advantage of the situation. He was an opportunist who saw MJ's desperation and calculated how to best serve his interests.

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????

That is the very definition of a conflicted doctor. The Hippocratic Oath is ignored and the patient is not first.

Serendipity, I already answered your question and you are free to not take my response seriously. Some fans do not want to take any accountability for a part they may play in the doctor's potential profit from his fatal crime. Better to save their energy and blame the Jacksons for their own personal actions. There is no logic in monies going to the Jacksons as opposed to going directly to the doctor as there should be no monies going either place! He can only profit from his fatal crime if he is supported and the Jacksons are not going to support him so again, who is?

I have noticed you did not answer my question to you.