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"Unoffical Estate"

Billyjeanplxiv

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Our goal should be to create a "Organized group of fans" .

As fans i think, we should have a bigger, more important say in future posthumous releases.
I believe it is possible for us to ban together and find a common ground on all topics.
We are all together all ready in a fan fourm. We are together, but we arent...organized.
I think it is possible for us, to do a better job with many situations: Aaron Carter, Cascio songs, Promotion of Michael.
We all have voices, i think its time we do something about it. A big voice is more powerful than a small one.


I dont want this to be a idea that will die with this post, i want it to be a official reality.
 
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I agree firmly and if we raise our voice as one we can prove that people still care about Michael and we can help with many things
 
I mean we should be able to do something, we just need to start somewhere and work our way up.
 
I respect this and am all for it. Good initiative. We need ALL of the fan base to move ahead with anything. This benefits us all, and helps to preserve Michael's legacy.
 
Arklove said:
I respect this and am all for it. Good initiative. We need ALL of the fan base to move ahead with anything. This benefits us all, and helps to preserve Michael's legacy.
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Well, how would we organize? we are allready here on MJJC, and theres many more MJ fan fourms out there. I think we all should take part and spread the word about this idea. I also believe we should organize a bit so we can get some things done. you know?
 
Wait a second... is this thread always in the Controversy section? Or, it got moved? I thought I first saw it in the Immmortal section??? :scratch:

Anyway, what's so controversial about banding together to form an equivalent of unofficial estate to check and balance the official one?
 
The idea, was first mentioned by me in the "Great Album Debate" section. Since then ive considered to it to be a project of mine to try to get this going.

woah, and it was moved? ....how is it controversial? It is something i hope can be a reality.
 
My humble opinion : a good idea, but the wording "Unofficial Estate" not so good, IMO, too provocative.
 
Obviously we wouldn't have an official say in decisions but I think we could sway decisions with petitions, maybe fair ultimatums.

We do have strength in numbers. If there were a lot of people involved, I believe we could make a difference. The only thing is, the actions of an unofficial estate should be based on the majority of the members' opinions. A poll before a petition, for example.

These are just my thoughts. I would want to be involved if it was fair, ie, each individual having a say in the actions made, not a few people in charge who make the decisions.

Btw, when the basics are worked out, a lot of people a have Facebook page. If someone were to create a page, people could "like" it and stay updated that way ;)
 
Mundy said:
Obviously we wouldn't have an official say in decisions but I think we could sway decisions with petitions, maybe fair ultimatums.

We do have strength in numbers. If there were a lot of people involved, I believe we could make a difference. The only thing is, the actions of an unofficial estate should be based on the majority of the members' opinions. A poll before a petition, for example.

These are just my thoughts. I would want to be involved if it was fair, ie, each individual having a say in the actions made, not a few people in charge who make the decisions.

Btw, when the basics are worked out, a lot of people a have Facebook page. If someone were to create a page, people could "like" it and stay updated that way ;)
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I think this was well put. Now we have a start :) So, i say we dont use the word: "Leader"
I dont think this "Unnoffical Estate" should have a leader. I this we should have a group of maybe 5-10 people who represent the "hopefully 100s" of fans who vote in these polls, and speak their idea in a petition. We may not have a say in official desicions made by the real estate....but we spoke pretty loud when the Cascio tracks came along, and we havent got any Cascio singles.
 
love is magical said:
Wait a second... is this thread always in the Controversy section? Or, it got moved? I thought I first saw it in the Immmortal section??? :scratch:

Anyway, what's so controversial about banding together to form an equivalent of unofficial estate to check and balance the official one?
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I guess it's the same thing as how the Aaron Carter thread got moved to the controversy section as well...I just think these types of initiatives shouldn't be hidden...Why is that?
 
I think this topic should be open for everyone to find.....i can see how Aaron Carter is controversy. but an "unoffical estate"
???
 
Thank you Billyjean :)

I agree, there would need to be a few people to deal with setting up the actions people want to take and give the updates, etc. United and equal, with some people doing work decided by the majority as opposed to being in charge.

I think it's a great idea. I'm so sick of decisions being based on profit. Our opinions matter because we care about Michael's vision, artistry and legacy.
 
So i think we should decide who the 5-10 representives should be? Maybe we all nominate some people. Then vote?

I dont want this to be a burden on anyone, as i dont know how complex this whole tjing can get.
 
Hmm, well no one would have to do it. Maybe people could volunteer themselves for voting, or nominate others if the people they nominate are willing to do it?
 
Haha, sorry. I didn't realise I repeated what you said! :lol: / :doh: If it turns out to be a bigger burden than people anticipated, hopefully there would be enough members that someone would be willing to take their place.

Well, let's get it started. This was your idea so I'd like to nominate you as a representative, assuming you're willing! :p
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
Our goal should be to create a "Unoffical Michael Jackson Estate" . -nonprofit.
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love is magical said:
Anyway, what's so controversial about banding together to form an equivalent of unofficial estate to check and balance the official one?
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Garden said:
My humble opinion : a good idea, but the wording "Unofficial Estate" not so good, IMO, too provocative.
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Ashtanga said:
The name of the thread is not a little aggressive? :unsure:
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first of the name needs to better explained. what is this "unofficial estate". does it aim to provide friendly feedback or does it aim to go head to head with the estate and argue about stuff.

for example is it going to run campaigns such as "we want bad tour on dvd" or is it going to be a campaign house for let's say "no more cascio songs" or "protest the album if there's cascio songs".

i personally would have a problem with "we know better" attitude towards the estate - and your name kinda suggests this. "this is what we like and what we want please consider them" will be a lot more user friendly and more bigger in numbers.

As fans i think, we should have a bigger, more important say in future posthumous releases.
I believe it is possible for us to ban together and find a common ground on all topics.
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common ground is important. for example there's no common ground in regards to the cascio songs, i hope you realize that.


Mundy said:
Obviously we wouldn't have an official say in decisions but I think we could sway decisions with petitions, maybe fair ultimatums.
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honestly, you lost me with "ultimatums".

Billyjeanplxiv said:
but we spoke pretty loud when the Cascio tracks came along, and we havent got any Cascio singles.
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i have to ask, is this about cascio songs
 
Im willing. Lol thanks. ...i have a question...what would the fan estate do? Lol i mean...there must be something we can do
 
ivy said:
first of the name needs to better explained. what is this "unofficial estate". does it aim to provide friendly feedback or does it aim to go head to head with the estate and argue about stuff.

for example is it going to run campaigns such as "we want bad tour on dvd" or is it going to be a campaign house for let's say "no more cascio songs".




common ground is important. for example there's no common ground in regards to the cascio songs, i hope you realize that.




honestly, you lost me with "ultimatums".



i have to ask, is this about cascio songs
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Ok. Well i think it should be called "the fan estate" do you all agree, if so i think a name change is in order. As for my last post: what would the estate do?
Ivy i think you awnsered that: bad tour 25 dvd/bluray? That would be a good start. This isnt exactly about cascio songs. In fact it could have nothing to do with the tracks if the fan estate supporters agree/disagree.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
As for my last post: what would the estate do?
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before anything else - before facebook pages and selecting people etc. this question needs to be answered - in detail.

you will find that a request and feedback type of organization would be more widely received that ultimatums and protests.

fan estate could be a like what would we have done if we run the estate type of thing. and for example if it said "regardless of authenticity such controversial songs (cascio) shouldn't be included in the album" it would be a "feedback" but if it got a stand of "no more cascio songs" or " don't buy next albums if there are cascio songs" it would be a "protest" and "against official estate" type of fan action.

a nice middle ground has to be established imo.

edited to add: i don't think there should be animosity or fight between the estate and the fans , it should be a "working together" experience.
 
What is this exactly? It sounds like a protest against the Cascio tracks.
 
Considering theres alot to shuffle setting this Fan Estate. I think we should honestly brainstorm a bit. Im honestly not the best at organizing. Lol
I think tackling the Cascio subject would be tricky and it would divide and rip this new estate apart.
I think we should start with a petition to appeal the whole Bad 25 DVD/Bluray.
I think we should also request to keep Michael's songs the way they were meant to be. (no new bridges, no crowd noises"

As for being run with feedback and request, wouldnt that be simalar to coming up with ideas, voting etc?

I also think if we organize the represenitives now that would save us some trouble later. Ivy would you accept if i nominate you for the chance to be a represenitive?
 
This sounds very disrespectful to Michael Jackson's wishes based on how it is worded and sounding right now. Michael Jackson chose who he wanted to run his estate and nothing else should carry his name and the word estate together other than what he created. In creating his Estate, he didn't say he wanted family, friends, or fans to share in the discussions, ideas, plans, etc. He could have but he did not.

There would be nothing wrong with asking if the Estate would be open to suggestions, feedback, or comments (however, doesn't the Estate already have contact with fans as well as a twitter or facebook page that can be used for such) from fan clubs for just that only. Ultimatums or demands have no business being a part of it because frankly it sounds confrontational, condescending, and childish. The Estate is a business that will put out products that people can choose to buy. Fans are not partners with voting rights in that business no matter how much they may want to be or think they should be. I suggest that you try this with any other business and see what happens. Michael's business should be treated with no less respect than you would give to any other corporation whose products you buy or care about.

But, I will ask again . . . aren't there already outlets for feedback? And why wouldn't those that are already there be used versus bogging down the Estate with one more thing while they are obviously dealing with fires after fires? How in the world can they ever get down to just planning material when they are hit from all sides with everyone wanting a voice in their business? Will people just let them do what they need to do in order to get through probate?
 
classic said:
This sounds very disrespectful to Michael Jackson's wishes based on how it is worded and sounding right now. Michael Jackson chose who he wanted to run his estate and nothing else should carry his name and the word estate together other than what he created. In creating his Estate, he didn't say he wanted family, friends, or fans to share in the discussions, ideas, plans, etc. He could have but he did not.

There would be nothing wrong with asking if the Estate would be open to suggestions, feedback, or comments (however, doesn't the Estate already have contact with fans as well as a twitter or facebook page that can be used for such) from fan clubs for just that only. Ultimatums or demands have no business being a part of it because frankly it sounds confrontational, condescending, and childish. The Estate is a business that will put out products that people can choose to buy. Fans are not partners with voting rights in that business no matter how much they may want to be or think they should be. I suggest that you try this with any other business and see what happens. Michael's business should be treated with no less respect than you would give to any other corporation whose products you buy or care about.

But, I will ask again . . . aren't there already outlets for feedback? And why wouldn't those that are already there be used versus bogging down the Estate with one more thing while they are obviously dealing with fires after fires? How in the world can they ever get down to just planning material when they are hit from all sides with everyone wanting a voice in their business? Will people just let them do what they need to do in order to get through probate?
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I take it your not for the idea. Well i understand your views, but i dont think its disrespectful torward MJ. I dont believe the fan estate should be based soley on demands and give me, give me, give me more. Its not all about we want this and that. The fan estate could do so much more than that. Would it be possible to help with album promotion? i dont think it would hurt.

If there is any outlets for feedback, the estate sure has ignored the whole "Cascio evidence subject" and "Aaron Carter matter"...isnt the estate only two people? if so would it be so bad if the Fans tried to help a bit?
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
I take it your not for the idea. Well i understand your views, but i dont think its disrespectful torward MJ. I dont believe the fan estate should be based soley on demands and give me, give me, give me more. Its not all about we want this and that. The fan estate could do so much more than that. Would it be possible to help with album promotion? i dont think it would hurt.

If there is any outlets for feedback, the estate sure has ignored the whole "Cascio evidence subject" and "Aaron Carter matter"...isnt the estate only two people? if so would it be so bad if the Fans tried to help a bit?
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There are people who are fans of Coca-Cola or certain sports teams but do you think they can help run the company or franchise? No. Heck, this can even be said about this very fan board. Would you suggest that we have an "unofficial mjjc committee"? Feedback is just that. There is nothing that says the Estate has to change any plans based on negative feedback because I'm sure at the same time they are getting positive feedback.

This sounds like the argument that some family members make about participating in the Estate. They too say what is the harm in letting us help. Well, the harm is that Michael didn't set his Estate up to be run that way. Again, as much as Michael loved, loved, loved his fans, he did not incorporate them into running his Estate. People should respect that. The Estate is not only two people. Two people are the Executors charged with carrying out Michael's wishes as expressed in his will/trust. If people would stop tugging at them in all different directions, then they may even get around to doing something similar to what you wish. They have their priorities based on information that we don't have, so how much can you really help. People can't change that and should stop trying to do so. I'm not opposed to people giving them feedback through the methods already in place or when they want the feedback. Don't we actually have people on this board who have some type of contact relationship with the Estate? I'm sure they see the feedback but that doesn't mean your feedback is right.

I will ask again. Do you all do this with any other corporation and if not why only Michael's? He didn't leave his Estate in the hands of the fans. People should just keep repeating this. I'm not trying to be rude. But at some point I just want everyone to stop and let Michael's wishes be the only thing that matters when it comes to his Estate and that includes who runs it based on his selection (which again did not say who could or could not "help").
 
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Ivy, it was just an example and I couldn't think of a better word for what I was trying to say. It's irrelevant to the overall discussion. I apologise if what I said sounded aggressive in any way, it's not the way I feel about this at all.

I didn't think of it as going head to head with the estate, just that it would be nice to be able to give our opinions and that if there was an "organisation" for that, it might be a way for the fans to be united and possibly get majority-decided fan suggestions noticed.

I don't think that we have to sit back and "like it or lump it" if a significant number of us disagree with actions taken but I can see now that we would never be united in this anyway.
 
well no, to my knowledge its not done with any other corporation. As for fans running the estate...thats not what im getting at. The Estate is MJ's estate. This estate is sorta...fan based, not official, isnt even organized yet. It was a idea for the fan to be more united, as a group, not just a forum. As much as i appreciation your thoughts, may i ask that you hold them back a little bit longer so we can organize, group, and start kicking off whatever we think to do? I wish not to start off with controversy, but with a open mind to all the possibilities.

Mundy said:
Ivy, it was just an example and I couldn't think of a better word for what I was trying to say. It's irrelevant to the overall discussion. I apologise if what I said sounded aggressive in any way, it's not the way I feel about this at all.

I didn't think of it as going head to head with the estate, just that it would be nice to be able to give our opinions and that if there was an "organisation" for that, it might be a way for the fans to be united and possibly get majority-decided fan suggestions noticed.
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It did sound aggressive, but that is perfectly fine for now. I just hope once we are together, we don't have to be aggressive. Just passive and helpful, not just being a "lump" and just taking what they give us. Some fans felt passionate about the Cascio tracks being false. So whoever it is, decided to start a campaign to not have Cascio singles/songs on the current and future MJ albums.
 
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