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Do anyone else feel this way? Murray acted with intent

Gif9gud

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I believe Murray killed Mike intentionally.

Let me clearify: I dont think it was a conspiracy. If it had been a "grand conspiracy", it would have been done with more "elegance".

But MJ had a history of trusting ppl with bad/selfish intentions. The doctor do fit this category.

I think Murray saw Mike as a tool for getting what he wanted: monies, strippers... But then something happend that threatend Murray´s position.
(We have seen many times just how crazy ppl can become when they lose access to MJ.)

Perhaps Mike told him no to some request. Perhaps Murray discovered that he wasnt going to London. Perhaps all the talk about MJ being sick, missing rehearsels made him feel unsafe...

I dont think it was a carefully planned murder. His actions afterward does seem somewhat desperate.
Perhaps it was done in a moment of anger: "You told me no so I am just gonna let you lie there and suffocate, becuz I have the power to do so". Maybe he thought that if he was gonna lose his gold ticket(Mike) nobody else could have it. Maybe he thought he could save most of his money and prestige if MJ died before anyone could fire him.

At last I think Murray presumed that he wasnt putting himself in great danger, becuz afterall everybody knew that MJ was a "self-hating addict weirdo", so nobody was gonna blame the doctor...

Ofcourse this is just my opinion.

But it does seem very clear at this point, that Murray either did not care about MJ´s life, or he wanted him dead. And Why shouldnt he care for Mike´s life? There has been many claims that he was a good doctor to other patients, and Mike was his ONLY patient, and a very high profil patient. The old "negligence" argument just doesnt cover it for me.
The conclusion: He killed him...
 
I think some how some way....he meant to kill Michael. I mean CPR on a bed...smh....what a fail.
 
I do often wonder what really happened in those moments before Michael died. The endless list of things that Murray did wrong leading up to that and afterwards just don't add up. We will never know I guess.

I also wonder if there are more taped audio recordings Murray made of Michael and what's on them. If he did it once, I'm sure he did it other times...
 
Gif9gud your theory makes a lot of sense.
It was a grotesque way to get Michael out of the way, which implies that emotion was involved.
On the other hand, I don't rule out the bigger scheme based on Michael's fears and the powerful entities that eyed his assets for a very long time. It could be they saw right through Murray's greed and snapped him as the right tool for the right job.
 
Sorry, but I don't think so. If, like you said, he hadn't planned it, but had done it in the moment of anger, so in which moment of the timeline he did it? This is imporatnt question, beacuse we have the Sade's call. He kept talking on the phone without break..To do something intentionally you need a little more time..He didn't have the time to think about all the datails you are talking about…It's just my opinion..

However I thought, that I got some answers during the trial. So far, nothing...
 
Although we will probably never know the truth, I wouldn't discount this possibility. In the police interview, Murray said Michael was talking about canceling -- not just a rehearsal, but the tour! What if he DID tell Murray he was going to cancel, or what if he fired Murray that night? That contract was in Murray's car, and Michael hadn't signed it. The expression on Murray's face in the courtroom often projects anger! And didn't he have a charge of spousal abuse in the past? So, I do think it's possible that he SNAPPED, pushed the propofol, and Michael died. He didn't try to save him because he was angry? If the tour was canceled, or if Murray was fired? There goes the money (and there go the hoes)?
 
I don't think he wanted Michael dead, not only because of the consequences (he's facing now) of having a high profile celebrity dying in his hands, but also MJ represented a golden eggs chicken for him. He would never find someone to pay U$ 150,000,00 dollars per month. No way.

His behaviour, the way he hangs up, after noticing MJ is not breathing. His despair trying to make MJ come back. Even this phone call to to Michael Amir saying Michael had a bad reaction and asking him to come immediately.

In his own negligent way, Murray was trying to make Michael sleep and unfortunately he ended up killing Michael.
 
Abusers make the best assassins... Part of me thinks that LAPD ran Murray's name through a certain database, stumbled upon his domestic violence arrest and subsequent trial- and that they then decided to look a bit deeper.

Take that and compare that to Murray DISSING his dead patient- what Doctor on earth disses a patient he lost- 2 (!!!) days later???
You don't softly murmur that you 'loved' your patient- while you diss him in the next sentence. That just SCREAMS creepy.

Whatever the details are- yes, I am sure that this is not just a royal screw-up. Hanging around, calling every person on the planet- that IS sick. It's like a passive-aggressive way of 'getting back at Michael'- "see Michael, I am doing JUST what you told me to do it. This is is your own set-up, your insisting on privacy, so I'm not calling 911, calling your assistant now."

Somebody with a history like Murray would absolutely be capable of that kind of 'thinking'. Insidious.
 
To kill Michael? I don't think so. It was in his best economic interest to keep Michael alive. He was drowning in a sea of debt from unpaid C.S. and other lawsuits against his practice ($400,000 from that). That's why he wanted $5M before, but eventually settled for $150,000 per month...quite a small fraction of what he initially wanted...due to his desperation. He was not in a position to call the shots. With that said, look at all he's lost now, his house got taken from him, his whole life is being dragged into public view (don't get me wrong, he TOTALLY deserves it). It is very obvious he was NOT at all prepared for Michael Jackson to die under his "care."

However...that is not to say his other actions were not without intent on 6.25.2009. While I do not think Murray intended to kill him, I do think he intended to delay calling 911 etc. in an effort to attempt to hide evidence and hope the propofol would not be detected by the hospital staff, etc. He desperately wanted to buy time, and he even more desperately wanted to hide evidence of his own wrongdoing. It is also glaringly obvious that he wanted to muddy the waters by involving as many extraneous people as humanly possible, which is how he dragged in both Kai Chase and Alberto Alvarez, who would have had nothing to do with anything had Murray chosen to call 911 himself. But then, it would be Murray and the paramedics...no one else, that would only allow the jury to zone in on him. If he ran around like a headless chicken barking directions at Chase and Alvarez, he would (he hoped) look concerned and competent--by not telling either of them what exactly was wrong, he hoped to give the impression that he did not know what was wrong, when we all know he knew EXACTLY what was wrong.

The fact that he went to such lengths to delay 911/paramedics from coming on the scene, that he consciously withheld the mention of propofol to everyone involved, and that he tried to return to the house (under the excuse of being hungry) to attempt to tamper with evidence and save his own ass, proves he was totally unprepared to deal with the situation, but it also shows that he knew giving propofol to Michael for insomnia was WRONG. Finally, it proves he's morally bankrupt and utterly self-centered, interested only in his own welfare, and not that of anyone else. He was well-prepared to throw Chase and Alvarez under the bus if it meant possibly shifting the blame from himself. Hopefully the jury will see that for what it is, and not fall under that trap. Neither Chase nor Alvarez knew what exactly was wrong with Michael, so their 911 call would have been missing crucial info. (as we see in Alvarez's call). ONLY Murray knew the whole story, and his call would have possibly saved Michael's life, but at the cost of revealing him as the negligent and reckless POS he is.

He made his choices.
 
Murrary said in the police interview he ask Michael would he need propofol treatments after the concerts in London, and Michael answered No I think I will be alright. and thats when murrary's plan went into action. he knew after London he would'nt have a job with Michael. I think he was paid, how do you not call 911 and thats just the beginning of things he didn't do. He allowed Michael to die same as murder.
 
I do agree that it is hard to find the motive for the murder. Murray´s life has definitely not improved. But murder is rarely based on logic. Emotions (hurt, anger, confusion, desperation etc.) tend to be the reason.

One thing that is pretty clear by now is that Murray did not care for/loved MJ. And Murray is a arrogant, selfish and perhaps violent man. The situation meant that MJ was completely helpless and vulnerable to the doctor´s every whim. It would have been so so easy for Murray to just push him over the edge and just let him fall.

Offcourse he realized at some point at he was going to work really hard to cover his ass, and he did.

But there is nothing in Murray´s actions, or even words, that suggest that he wanted Mike to survive.

Murray intented Michael to die...
 
I'm struggling a bit to find the motive in this theory? Revenge? It was in murray's best interest to keep Michael alive. I think Murray was probably tired and fed up by the time he gave Michael the propofol and was careless in setting up a drip, knocked him out and left much sooner than he said he did.
 
I think Murray left Michael other nights too,I don´t know if he thought it was safe if he just watched Michael for a while.

The only thing that would make sense to me is that Michael was dead when Murray finally decided to watch him otherwise I don´t know why Murray acted so stupid with his rescue efforts.He was in panic.
 
One of the aspects that has confused me is why Murray wanted to wean Michael off propofol and yet order so much of it. I wonder if Murray knew how dangerous it was and wanted to stall until he had the equipment he needed, but then again, why was he concerned then when he had already been administering for two months prior. Had something happened? Before you say it, yes I know I'm using Murray's account here.
 
Michael didn´t get sick 19/6 because of propofol.
Someone here said the symthoms had to do with Lorazepam.
It seems Murray was mixing the drugs all the time
Why did Michael become so skinny the last weeks?
Some says you use ephedrine together with propofol to keep the bloodpressure.
It could explain why Michael got skinny but I haven´t heard that Murray ordered any epedhrine
 
I don't believe that Michael intended to cancel the tour! If he had wantred to cancel it I don't believe he would have gone to the rehearsal on june 24th. Besides, why would he want to cancel it? Obviously he wasn't fragile and worn out during the rehearsals, otherwise the defence would have insisted to show footage from the rehearsals that would show how fragile he was supposed to have been.

I'm not to sure about the intent. The only possible intent would consist of Murray's anger of being fired before London. Why would Michael fire Murray? Hmm, maybe if he didn't feel like he needed him anymore? Maybe he thought he was feeling better and could manage without propofol? In that case it would be in Murray's interest to keep him on propofol and not to wean him off as he's saying I believe. Maybe Murray was acting in afect and got seriously carried away in his actions.

Regardless if there was an intent or if there wasn't, his actions were so dangerous that that alone should be enough for murder 2 - I believe in California intent is not necessary for murder 2, extremely dangerous behaviour is enough.
 
I don't think it was done intentionally in all honesty. Why would he want to kill his meal ticket? He was reckless and clouded by celebrity and greed.
 
The only intent i see was the intent to cover his actions after the fact. He was clearly disregarding the dangers and got to confident with the dangerous drugs he was administering and also lazy in his monitoring Michael. His actions were dispicable but I dont believe his intent was to kill.
 
Gif9gud;3512551 said:
I do agree that it is hard to find the motive for the murder. Murray´s life has definitely not improved. But murder is rarely based on logic. Emotions (hurt, anger, confusion, desperation etc.) tend to be the reason.

One thing that is pretty clear by now is that Murray did not care for/loved MJ. And Murray is a arrogant, selfish and perhaps violent man. The situation meant that MJ was completely helpless and vulnerable to the doctor´s every whim. It would have been so so easy for Murray to just push him over the edge and just let him fall.

Offcourse he realized at some point at he was going to work really hard to cover his ass, and he did.

But there is nothing in Murray´s actions, or even words, that suggest that he wanted Mike to survive.

Murray intented Michael to die...
Click to expand...

He would have no reason to feel resentment/anger towards Michael Jackson. He was his meal ticket. Murder is actually very often based on (subjective) "logic", at least as far as murder with intent goes. It is very clear that the benefits of killing Michael are zilch compared to the very many drawbacks and challenges it has created for Murray. On the other hand, the benefits of keeping him alive, economically, were astronomical for debt-ridden Murray. Furthermore, murders which have emotion as their fueling force are most often committed using fast-acting and violent means, such as shooting, stabbing, mauling, beating, etc.

Therefore, it was in his every best interest to keep Michael around for as long as possible. You are right in saying he did not care for/love Michael, that's pretty transparent, especially given the stealthily recorded phone conversation. However, disregard for his patient does not directly point to the opposite field (hatred, etc.) It is clear Murray did not hate Michael. It is clear he did not love him. It is clear he looked upon him coldly, as a person whom he intended to use to fit his own agenda, that one being making money. Therefore, keeping him around for the time being would prove of benefit to Murray, who, as you say, was arrogant and selfish.

Therefore, he would always be thinking of what was best for himself, if he was so selfish (and he is). Thus, killing Michael Jackson is directly opposite to his best interests, economic and otherwise, as we have seen. He did not intend for Michael to die, and it is painfully obvious in his actions that he was completely unprepared to deal with the consequences his actions ultimately brought about.

There is no indication that Murray is a violent man (at least in a professional setting), he was however tried and acquitted in 1994 for supposed domestic violence charges, but as the method of death in this case is anything but violent,I do not see why you are bringing this up. However, there is every indication that he is negligent and reckless, as seen from the liquified mess that is his personal life. Unpaid child support for his many b--tard children (I use that term literally, and it is not meant to insult them), as of yet unpaid sums from misc. lawsuits against his Las Vegas practice ($400,000 from what I have read), etc. It is also clear that he is reckless (spending money on strippers even while he is drowning in debt, to such a degree that he has now lost his home--clear disregard for even his own long-term welfare).

He is a man of immediate gratification--all he cared about was getting as much money from Michael Jackson as humanly possible, without regard for his safety, and without regard for the consequences which would fall upon him in the event something were to go tragically wrong. This much is crystal clear.
 
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I really do think he did it intentionally. But then again with my depression and my insomnia being as bad as it is anymore. And my mind which hasn't work right since before it happen. I really don't know what to think any more of what had happen that day.:sad:
 
Never thought it was intentional as there were no reason for it. but i dont blame ppl for thinking it. look at what he did. all the violations. he couldnt do the most basic thing right. can a dr truely be that negligent by accident?
 
I have said before that if in fact murray was 'sleeping' michael for, what...6-8 weeks, with either the benzos and or propofol, what happened to make 25 June different in terms of outcome? Why would he stop monitoring, in his primitive fashion, michael, abandon him to make phone calls or whatever, then f**up the CPR. Why was it more important for him to be on the phone than to watch his patient? Is this what he had been doing all along?
I would love for an accrediting agency such as JCAHO to audit his clinics' medical records and see what kind of care and documentation he normally practices.
 
This 'negligent' mess is just a bunch of crap and I'm appalled that alot of people are willing to believe it....not to mention the crap that Michael demanded that propofal to be pumped into him.

Michael was murdered PERIOD. Conrad Murray did not have the required, resuscitating equipment because it wasn't needed. Why would he need to take such precautions if he had no intention of Michael surviving? As for the arguement that Murray 'couldn't have' killed Michael with intent because that would mean he wouldn't get paid the $150,000.00: Did it ever occur to anyone Murray would intentionally kill Michael for a higher more profitable price offered to him by people who wanted Michael gone? Why did Murray tape Michael when Michael was obviously under the effects of sedatives? What was Murray going to do with those recordings? Donate them to a sleep clinic? Why did Murray on those police tapes made it an effort to highlight Michael's 'drug use' and how he tried to wean him off propofal? Not to mention other things that just doesn't past the smell test of plain old negligence. I've heard of doctors making mistakes that costed patients their lives; but in this instance, there was NOTHING there that would serve as a precaution to aid Michael if something went wrong...not to mention the way this propofal was put into Michael....how Murray dragged his feet to take action to save Michael's life.

Murray is an immoral, perverse man who's not above carrying out a hit for the right price. I don't care what anyone says; I don't care if anyone disagrees with me. Murray was carrying out a hit. It is not unheard of nor uncommon. Doctors make the best assassins. 'What better way to murder someone than to lethally inject them----especially if that victim is a person who has had troubles with drugs (whether prescription or street drugs). Murder by lethal injection can easily be persuaded to the clueless as an accidental overdose or a suicide. Look at how Michael has been portrayed these past 2 years since he died. So much so people, including so called friends of his have been convinced Michael was taking 'irresponsible' means of escaping and expressing feeling sorry for Murray. It's an outrage. Murray belongs under the prison and so does the rest of them that are in on it too.
 
enlightnu: I do agree with you most of the way, but I think we should be really careful about declaring Murray "an payed assasin" because we simply dont have direct evidence of that being the case.
But what seems pretty clear to me is that MJ was not suppose to wake up...
 
Yes, with more and more details being brought up in the trial things really start to point in that direction.
 
I agree with everything you have written below. YES, Conrad Murray intentionally killed Michael Jackson.
Conrad Murray is a "Corporate Hit Man". Murray was paid to kill Michael Jackson by either AEG or Sony; and/or
Murray killed Michael Jackson in a fit of rage because Michael figured out Murray was an incompetent doctor, and
refused to sign his AEG contract. ( Michael Jackson DID NOT AND WAS NEVER GOING TO SIGN Murray's contract for the London shows.)

God is not mocked. Hell awaits Conrad Murray and his cohorts who helped him kill Michael Jackson.



enlightenu said:
This 'negligent' mess is just a bunch of crap and I'm appalled that alot of people are willing to believe it....not to mention the crap that Michael demanded that propofal to be pumped into him.

Michael was murdered PERIOD. Conrad Murray did not have the required, resuscitating equipment because it wasn't needed. Why would he need to take such precautions if he had no intention of Michael surviving? As for the arguement that Murray 'couldn't have' killed Michael with intent because that would mean he wouldn't get paid the $150,000.00: Did it ever occur to anyone Murray would intentionally kill Michael for a higher more profitable price offered to him by people who wanted Michael gone? Why did Murray tape Michael when Michael was obviously under the effects of sedatives? What was Murray going to do with those recordings? Donate them to a sleep clinic? Why did Murray on those police tapes made it an effort to highlight Michael's 'drug use' and how he tried to wean him off propofal? Not to mention other things that just doesn't past the smell test of plain old negligence. I've heard of doctors making mistakes that costed patients their lives; but in this instance, there was NOTHING there that would serve as a precaution to aid Michael if something went wrong...not to mention the way this propofal was put into Michael....how Murray dragged his feet to take action to save Michael's life.

Murray is an immoral, perverse man who's not above carrying out a hit for the right price. I don't care what anyone says; I don't care if anyone disagrees with me. Murray was carrying out a hit. It is not unheard of nor uncommon. Doctors make the best assassins. 'What better way to murder someone than to lethally inject them----especially if that victim is a person who has had troubles with drugs (whether prescription or street drugs). Murder by lethal injection can easily be persuaded to the clueless as an accidental overdose or a suicide. Look at how Michael has been portrayed these past 2 years since he died. So much so people, including so called friends of his have been convinced Michael was taking 'irresponsible' means of escaping and expressing feeling sorry for Murray. It's an outrage. Murray belongs under the prison and so does the rest of them that are in on it too.
Click to expand...
 
elusive moonwalker said:
Never thought it was intentional as there were no reason for it. but i dont blame ppl for thinking it. look at what he did. all the violations. he couldnt do the most basic thing right. can a dr truely be that negligent by accident?
Click to expand...

I can't see how he could. It's like the doctor in him completely left the room concerning Michael. Not one of his other patients would he treat with such disregard. With such carelessness. The motive may not be obvious but anything else is just unexplainable. The man works out of two offices. He as access to the proper equipment. If not all of it at least the basic stuff. There is no other logical explanation except intentional murder.

Murray is not this ignorant. He is a doctor. Doctor's are smarter than the average person.
 
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