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Thread: Randall Sullivan's book "Untouchable"

   
  1. #31
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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    Thanks, respect77, I now vaguely recall that story. But correct me if I'm wrong, I think Schaffel only claimed that he delivered money to someone in Argentina, and he didn't say what it was for (other than it being a private matter). The insinuation about payoff was made by the press. Even if he completely made that payment up, it wasn't necessarily to suggest that Michael was a pedophile - he may have done it just to demand more money. And if the whole story about Michael knowing about his past and pretending like he didn't is true (which seems likely), Schaffel was understandably hurt and fired back. Plus, we don't know what exactly cаme from him and what cаme from his lawyer (which is not always the same thing).

    I'm not trying to whitewash Schaffel, I'm just seeing that the mess was pretty complicated with many people involved, and although it did play out badly for Michael in the press, especially considering the criminal trial, it wasn't necessarily Schaffel's intention to destroy him or portray him as a child molester. And I've seen too many times that judging people's supposed intentions by press coverage can be misleading. I guess I'm just not comfortable with seeing people related to Michael in black and white, and for me there is a difference between, say, Diane Dimond who trashes Michael openly and absolutely cannot be trusted, and people like Schaffel, who may have been angry and stoop to low strategies at times, but in general have respect for Michael and did a number of good things for him.

    Anyway, thanks for the links, they were helpful.
    Last edited by morinen; 12-11-2012 at 09:37 AM.

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  3. #32
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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    [QUOTE=Petrarose;3736484
    Then, he talks about how this guy said Michael could not find his room and look at what conclusions he made with this. It is like everything Michael does and say has to be analyzed. So if I cannot find my hotel room it means that I cannot take care of my daily life? I don't know about Sullivan and his source, [/QUOTE]

    Marc Schaffel was his source for MJ's inability to deal with normal life:ermm:

    I guess I'm not able to deal with normal life either. More than once I have "lost" my hotel room, sometimes when park my car in the shopping mall, quite ofter I cannot remember where did I parked it :smilerolleyes:

    I'm not surprised if MJ could find his hotel room, he spent most of his life in hotels, and probably after a while they all look the same for his eyes. Then again, when MJ cannot find his hotel room, it is immediately seen as he cannot deal with normal life (then again, MJ didn't live normal life).
    Last edited by Bubs; 12-11-2012 at 01:23 PM.

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  5. #33
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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    @ morinen

    "The insinuation about payoff was made by the press."
    No. The insinuation was made by Schaffel and his lawyer.
    Schaffel is also the source for Friedman's articles.

    Schaffel badly wanted a settlement and since Michael refused he tried to pressure him into it with bad publicity. It's the same tactic that the Neverland 5 tried with Michael back in the 90s...
    Why should I give Schaffel a pass on it?


    "Even if he completely made that payment up, it wasn't necessarily to suggest that Michael was a pedophile - he may have done it just to demand more money."
    Yeah, just like the Chandlers and Arvizos "may have done it just to demand more money". Let's have some understanding for them?

    Sorry, but nothing justifies Schaffel making innuendo about Michael's sexuality. Especially considering what a sensitive issue it was for him one year after the trial.

    "And if the whole story about Michael knowing about his past and pretending like he didn't is true (which seems likely), Schaffel was understandably hurt and fired back. Plus, we don't know what exactly cаme from him and what cаme from his lawyer (which is not always the same thing)."
    Evan Chandler too may have been "understandably" hurt that Michael did not take his phone calls or something.

    Sorry but I have no understanding for such tactics. It's not some innocent claim to imply that Michael was paying off parents of young boys left and right. (And it was not true, of course.)

    I'm not trying to whitewash Schaffel, I'm just seeing that the mess was pretty complicated with many people involved, and although it did play out badly for Michael in the press, especially considering the criminal trial, it wasn't necessarily Schaffel's intention to destroy him or portray him as a child molester.

    You know, Evan Chandler's intention was not necessarily to destroy Michael either. His primary goal was getting money. But because he did not, he destroyed Michael and portrayed him as a child molester. Again, how can one say let's have some understanding for people who claimed or insinuated that Michael molested children? Be it Evan or Marc Schaffel? And I don't care about their "reasons". To me nothing justifies such a lie, sorry!

    I guess I'm just not comfortable with seeing people related to Michael in black and white, and for me there is a difference between, say, Diane Dimond who trashes Michael openly and absolutely cannot be trusted, and people like Schaffel, who may have been angry and stoop to low strategies at times, but in general have respect for Michael and did a number of good things for him.

    Seeing people black and white? Well, I acknowledge that his documentary on Michael was a good documentary. Perhapsh he had regrets after Michael's death. Perhaps he just wanted to jump on the bandwagon that the world now loved Michael again. That does not change my opinion on him.

    It seems to me we have different sensitivities about people who make allegations or insinuations about Michael and his relationship with children. The other day you defended that Peter Pan book which also made pretty bad innuendo about Michael's sexuality/relationship to children in one chapter. You defended that book because you said the rest of the book is good. I said in that thread and I will say it again: no matter how great the rest of the book is, I will NEVER compromise about people/books etc. which make allegations/innuendo about Michael's relationship with children. It's not "black or white" thinking. It's just something I won't let people get away with. The allegations are the worst that happened to Michael. They made his life hell. They stained his legacy. There are still people out there who mock him for something he did not do and people who refuse to listen to his music because they think he was a child molester. How could I then say: "let's turn a blind eye on what this author implied about Michael's sexuality because she said nice things about him as an artist"? Sorry, but I won't. Same with Schaffel. Just because he made a nice docu on MJ after his death (whether out of regret or out of jumping on a bandwagon) I won't consider him suddenly a good and trustworthy guy.

    And even besides this thing, I don't think the good he did for Michael outweighs the bad. He ripped him off financially (some of that came out during that 2006 trial) and IMO he, Wiesner and Koinitzer were a bad influence on Michael at the beginning of the 2000s and a lot of his business and PR problems at the time were because he relied on these guys as his advisors.
    Last edited by HIStory; 12-11-2012 at 11:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    I too will never understand or have any compassion for those who falsely accused michael - NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL!

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by morinen View Post
    Beginning of the book, from Amazon sample:
    http://www.mediafire.com/view/?cb4vgam9va3x8gb

    The whole ebook is out on Tuesday.

    He wrote Trudy Green told to M Jthat he needs to get mould made of his face for You Rock My World video! Crap!
    Wasn't it Frank Cascio in his book who said that Michael was very upset that John McClain suggested such a thing to him?
    Last edited by Bubs; 12-11-2012 at 01:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    Schaffel is also the one that released the Anti-semite recordings. And as for the lawsuit between then they found out that Michael own Schaffel money but they also determined that Schaffel also scammed Michael.
    Twitter : Ivy_4MJ

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by respect77 View Post
    Later in court it turned out that the story about $300,000 had no basis in reality. He clearly made this claim, as well as making insinuations about Michael's sexuality to try to extort Michael, put pressure on him and make him settle with him.
    For what Michael used the $300,000? I remember that Schaffel did not have the receipts for this transaction, this can mean that Schaffel could have used the $300,000 for his own expenses without Michael ever knowing.

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    I have the book and reading it. It's such a crappy book filled with mistakes. He calls Aldo Cascio as Eddie all through the book. He says TJ has 3 sons, he doesn't. Has Mark Lester's paternity claims, a lot of talk about plastic surgery, says Michael is a virgin and so on. This is not a good book for anyone.
    The whole ****ery in one book SMH...

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathy MJ View Post
    For what Michael used the $300,000? I remember that Schaffel did not have the receipts for this transaction, this can mean that Schaffel could have used the $300,000 for his own expenses without Michael ever knowing.
    Schaffel implied it was to pay off a Brazilian/Argentinian family of a child he'd abused.

    The forensic accountant who went through all of Schaffel's transactions found absolutely no evidence this $300,000 ever existed.

    They did find out he would transfer half a million to his own account from Michael various times though.

    Debbie Rowe also testified about Schaffel in 2005, saying he would brag all the time about the money he'd make off Michael, and that he had plants in the media who were selling negative stories about Michael. I know she seems "friendly" with him now, but she hung him out to dry in 2005 and exposed a lot of his crap.
    Last edited by la_cienega; 12-11-2012 at 04:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    "and that he had plants in the media who were selling negative stories about Michael."

    He did it

    http://www.contactmusic.com/news-art...jackson-tapesl

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    Sigh:o
    I hope Zack's book(from Forbes) is properly researches and accurate.

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by respect77 View Post
    Sorry, but nothing justifies Schaffel making innuendo about Michael's sexuality. Especially considering what a sensitive issue it was for him one year after the trial.
    Hey, I'm not saying it justifies what he said, or made it okay, or that we all should love and embrace Schaffel. I personally have no emotions toward him whatsoever - certainly no sympathy or compassion, and if someone want to hate him - it's their right. I also agree that those 3 were poor managers for Michael. What I'm saying is one can see why he said those things back then (same as one can see the reason why Chandler and Arviso turned on Michael, same as I see why that Peter Pan author had her doubts) - again, it doesn't justify them in my eyes, it's simply understanding the cause and the effect. And that gives me context for people's words and allows me - among other things - predict what can and what cannot be believed. While I wouldn't listen to what Arviso have to say today, because I know they still hold animosity towards Michael and are very likely to lie, I would give more attention to Wiesner or Schaffel because while they still tell their side of the story, it's unlikely they would badly twist or completely make up things about Michael now.

    We probably read books for different reasons. Besides celebrating Michael - which not all books do - I read also for information, my goal is to understand what happened and understand each side's motives and reactions (however decent or indecent they might have been) because that gives me the full picture and allows me to see why Michael let certain people in or shut them out, and how he approached certain matters etc. Again, it doesn't mean I think everything those people said about Michael was justified. But it also doesn't mean I will automatically write off their every word as a lie.

    I'm sorry, I don't want to digress from the topic anymore.

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    ^Trying to imply mj is a pedo and an anti-semite at a time when mj's reputation in the usa was in tatters is a bit of a red flag that a friend/colleague isn't to be trusted on anything he says, even if it's some pathetic little tale about mj getting lost in a hotel coridor. And personally speaking, i do have emotions towards people who deliberately try to destroy another human being's reputation for money - i despise them, and tend to regard with huge suspicion their credibility and character.

    MJ was such a vulnerable target for these type of opportunists, absolute nonsense can and was printed about him in his lifetime with complete impunity, that i find i have to be so careful of everything that is written.

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    Default Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

    MARK WAHLBERG
    Michael Jackson, 9/11
    Plane Story Is BS
    It's an amazing story -- Michael Jackson and Mark Wahlberg fighting over a private plane in the days after 9/11. The only problem ... IT'S JUST NOT TRUE ... this according to sources close to Wahlberg.


    A new book, entitled "Untouchable," recounts the tale of MJ and MW both jockeying for a Sony private jet. Sony eventually let MJ have it, claims the book.


    But sources close to Wahlberg tell TMZ the whole thing is a work of fiction. We're told Mark had no need for a plane from Sony to fly back to Los Angeles because he had his own.


    We knew it was too good to be true.



    Btw the airline were grounded for 7 days after 9/11. No matter how many airplanes Sony have they are useless. Just show how much truth in this stupid book. tired of BS
    “I had good luck,” Liza says, comparing her life to the late King of Pop. “I had good friends. I had great parents, and I did not have people using me every second of my life. … I did not have people looking at me as a commodity without somebody else there to say, ‘Don’t treat her like that.”

    Liza said of her friend Michael, “Think about it, that kid did more good for people than anybody will ever know, and all of his friends know it.”

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