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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by respect77 View Post
    According to a girl who went to school with him in NY ca. 2003-04 (she was also on the defense's witness list), yes, he did throw parties with Michael's music...
    Wasn't he also spotted wearing a Michael Jackson T.shirt about 2008ish?

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    Are there any pictures from Jordan from the last years. I never have seen anything. The only photos I know are the pictures from him as a child together with Michael.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by bluetopez View Post
    Um... Jordan was never confused about MJ of whether he was truly a molester and thinking he was helping others, that's B.S. Jordan never believed for real that MJ molested anyone! Guess some forgot that Jordan lied about MJ molesting others like Barnes knowing that wasn't true, he lied on purpose to help his father out. Jordan named Barnes back then, accusing MJ himself. As we know many yrs later Barnes and others in the 05 trial testified MJ never touched them, the same thing they said as kids to those stupid cops during the 93 investigation. Jason Francia was the only one who fell for the trap and then continued to lie about it in the 05 trial, just to help his greedy ass mom!
    He may have been convinced MJ was a pedophile because of Victor Gutierrez and his father. Hence why he listed the kids he did in his interview, those were the kids Victor had fantasized about being abused.

    So maybe in 2003/5 when the trial was happening he was hearing all of it and it confirmed maybe Victor was telling the truth.

    Jordan knows he wasn't molested, and maybe he realizes that nobody else was, but he could also have tried justifying why he did what he did by trying to believe MJ was guilty of something with someone based on what Victor/Evan were obsessing about, and how the media ran away with it. We know that's what Evan and Ray have tried to do, tried claiming there are other victims and using the same ones Victor did, Ray tried the same thing in the book again this time, claiming Jordan had been saved by Evan from "anal sex" with Michael. The only person who claimed anal sex had ever happened was Victor. Jordan lived with his father on and off until 2005, and lived with him throughout 2003-2005, and Evan is a crazy obsessive freak who admitted to collecting as many news cuttings and things about MJ being a pedophile as he could, so I imagine he had to listen to Evan go on and on about it at the time.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    ^ Exactly, all the grown ups round jordan were assuming the worst things about mj - father, lawyers, police, da's office - he was only 13 and so would be heavily influenced by their views. It would also explain his estrangement with june, if he felt that she hadn't done anything to protect him.

    Quote Originally Posted by La cienega
    We know that's what Evan and Ray have tried to do, tried claiming there are other victims.
    I wonder if that was the intention behind all the info we have on how well jordan's investments are doing. Sullivan reports via ray presumably that jordan's doubled his payout from mj by investing in oil and so on. If you're scared stiff of crazed mj fans, why would you crow about how super rich on mj's money jordan has become - we're not going to be going, 'aww that's nice'. It seems more like an invitation to those 'victims' out there to cash in, so the chandlers won't feel so isolated.

    @ Annita http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/0...acksons-money/
    Last edited by Bonnie Blue; 15-12-2012 at 06:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    Jordan Can't say anything about the 93 case because that breaks the confidentiality Contracts he had to sign?

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by la_cienega View Post
    He may have been convinced MJ was a pedophile because of Victor Gutierrez and his father. Hence why he listed the kids he did in his interview, those were the kids Victor had fantasized about being abused.

    So maybe in 2003/5 when the trial was happening he was hearing all of it and it confirmed maybe Victor was telling the truth.

    Jordan knows he wasn't molested, and maybe he realizes that nobody else was, but he could also have tried justifying why he did what he did by trying to believe MJ was guilty of something with someone based on what Victor/Evan were obsessing about, and how the media ran away with it. We know that's what Evan and Ray have tried to do, tried claiming there are other victims and using the same ones Victor did, Ray tried the same thing in the book again this time, claiming Jordan had been saved by Evan from "anal sex" with Michael. The only person who claimed anal sex had ever happened was Victor. Jordan lived with his father on and off until 2005, and lived with him throughout 2003-2005, and Evan is a crazy obsessive freak who admitted to collecting as many news cuttings and things about MJ being a pedophile as he could, so I imagine he had to listen to Evan go on and on about it at the time.
    I don't think Jordan believed MJ molested other kids. I agree that the names of other kids, such as Brett, Wade etc. where thrown in by Gutierrez and that's why they used their names so boldly in their story. But IMO it was Evan who (at least initially) believed him, not Jordan. I doubt Jordan believed whatever he was told about other kids. He knew he was expected to lie about Michael, why would he believe his father about other kids? The whole story was Evan's, not Jordan's. And Jordan definitely did not believe it in 2003/05, if we believe Josephine Zohny who said when the Arvizo allegations came out Jordan told her that in his opinion MJ was innocent. If he believed all these stories about Brett and other kids he definitely would not have said that.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by respect77
    And Jordan definitely did not believe it in 2003/05, if we believe Josephine Zohny who said when the Arvizo allegations came out Jordan told her that in his opinion MJ was innocent.
    I didn't know that, is there more info on zohny apart from that mesereau video? In that tmez just says he had witnesses saying that jordan told them he had never been touched, there was nothing about what jordan thought about mj's innocence.

    I'm sure we're all in agreement that jordan's story to the psychiatrist re the 'other victims' was obviously planted by evan, who would have been well aware of the importance of the need for other victims. Jordan wouldn't have even known some of the names he provided, corey for eg.
    Last edited by Bonnie Blue; 15-12-2012 at 06:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie Blue View Post
    I didn't know that, is there more info on zohny apart from that mesereau video. In that tmez just says he had witnesses saying that jordan told them he had never been touched, there was nothing on what he thought about mj's innocence.
    Well, what I read (I think on VMJ) was that she said that when the Arvizo crap was ongoing Jordan told her that in his opinon Michael was innocent and also that his father made him do things he did not want to do.

    Maybe it's just hearsay, maybe it's what he said, maybe it's not. On the other hand all this thing about Jordan believing other kids were molested is not supported by anything IMO. There could be many reasons speculated about why he eventually went along with his father's plan. It could have been emotional blackmail (like his father telling him if he doesn't support him he could go in jail), there could have been physical threat (we know Evan was violent) - there could be a lot of reasons and we may never know until he chooses to tell.

    I think about Jordan telling Pellicano "yeah, my father only wants money" and I really think he was pretty much aware of what his father was doing.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    ^ See your point.

    I think there's something in frank's book, can't quite remember it now, when he quotes jordan telling him back in 93 when they met at neverland, that his father was jealous of mj.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie Blue View Post


    I wonder if that was the intention behind all the info we have on how well jordan's investments are doing. Sullivan reports via ray presumably that jordan's doubled his payout from mj by investing in oil and so on. If you're scared stiff of crazed mj fans, why would you crow about how super rich on mj's money jordan has become - we're not going to be going, 'aww that's nice'. It seems more like an invitation to those 'victims' out there to cash in, so the chandlers won't feel so isolated.

    @ Annita http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/0...acksons-money/
    Reading Ray's book I get the impression that both Evan and him are narcissists. It's incredible how much they tell on themselves in that book and I think the reason for that is because they are narcissists who can't help but boast about their own greatness. I feel they view it almost like a game that they "won" - they managed to beat the system, get the money wanted, made the world believe MJ was a child molester etc. They also like to boast about how good looking both Evan and Jordan are. What a financial genius Jordan is etc. They are always boasting. Evan and Ray are narcissists IMO.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    I can see Jordan believing maybe it happened because of Victor, "I did my part", which goes in with the idea he may have believed he did something good just by lying about it because he could let others come forward. He knew nothing happened to himself but he could've been convinced by the others that Michael did these things in other ways. Like, though Jordan knew many of the other kids like Brett, Cascio's, Macaulay, Wade, etc, and saw none of them seemed molested or anything weird happening, his father and Victor were making up fantasies to explain it, that Michael only did it at certain times, in certain ways, blah blah. Evan was disturbed, Victor was a man on a mission.

    I think he was convinced to go along with it for other reasons (father being abusive, money), but I still can believe he was partly convinced just because Victor was so convincing. We have Evan on the phone acting like child abuse is not abuse, in the book he even says that, the graphic details about Brett being sexually abused on that penis drawing. Victor had everyone convinced, Diane Dimond, the entire DA in Santa Barbara who used his book as the absolute gospel and Sneddon would raise questions to witnesses directly using that book, Maureen Orth, Bashir. Sneddon was also trying to convince people from 1993-2004 about Michael by claiming the penis description was an "exact match", he kept telling everyone that though the Chandler's themselves didn't want to use it in their own civil lawsuit, and he was also telling people that MJ had books full of naked kids. We got to see what those books really were in 2005, but because of that Ray got to walk around everywhere claiming MJ had hardcore child porn for a while. So they could've justified it in that way. Also Jason Francia and the endless news coverage from 1993-2003 which obsessed over every male child photographed with Michael, at one point Michael was in his garden with his cousins flying kites and playing with water balloons and Carole Lieberman told the National Enquirer the photos showed Michael was aroused around children, and MJ was photographed with a "nephew" named Anthony while on his "honeymoon" with Debbie and the National Enquirer said, "but Michael doesn't have any nephews named Anthony!!!!" like Mike lied about being related to him, when it was Anthony Jackson, Michael's cousin whose father had just died (Taraborrelli also included this story in his book making MJ sound creepy, saying MJ just "called him" his cousin, like MJ was just making it up). Evan Chandler was collecting everything like that.

    It's interesting he shut out June, who was the one who didn't believe it until the psychiatrist interview, so she never spoke to him again. Never got to ask him about it, never got to see how he would respond about it. I wonder what Evan told Jordan about June to get her out for good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie Blue View Post
    LOL how dare you post a Jordan Tracking Blog!

    --- Signed the entirely slanted real Josephine Zohny
    Last edited by la_cienega; 15-12-2012 at 07:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    ^I suppose i have to agree with respect that it is all ultimately just our conjecture as to jordan's motivation, but i do support the idea that jordan justified what he did by believing mj was not the great guy he thought he was because of what evan etc told him. I guess it gives me hope that jordan may eventually be moved to admit what he did.

    MJ was photographed with a "nephew" named Anthony while on his "honeymoon" with Debbie.
    Just looked up jrt on this - you missed out that he was supposedly best man at mj's wedding. Also that he was 'good looking...and in the opinion of most observers, he was a dead-ringer for jordie chandler'. Sullivan learnt well from jrt.

    Victor had everyone convinced, Diane Dimond, the entire DA in Santa Barbara who used his book as the absolute gospel.
    It could be important to remember this was california in the early 90s - there was child abuse hysteria. There was a clinical theory developed in the 80s in calif called child sexual abuse accomodation syndrome which seems to explain very well the acceptance of these accusations against mj (and of course against the many other victims of false accusations). Any inconsistencies or oddities in the childs' statements are normal of abuse victims, and also outright and repeated denials of abuse are also to be expected - this would explain to them the lack of collaboration, mj had little chance of being believed in a climate like this. Victor would be pushing at an open door, esp against a public figure some people might not feel much sympathy for to begin with.

    LOL how dare you post a Jordan Tracking Blog!
    Whoops sorry about that lac. BTW how were jc's grades at college?
    Last edited by Bonnie Blue; 15-12-2012 at 08:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    I always thought the "I did my part" thing was just to get the prosecution off his back without telling them that MJ didn't do anything to him.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie Blue View Post

    Just looked up jrt on this - you missed out that he was supposedly best man at mj's wedding. Also that he was 'good looking...and in the opinion of most observers, he was a dead-ringer for jordie chandler'. Sullivan learnt well from jrt.
    And people wonder why I've always hated Taraborrelli.

    But I like that, because I've always told people that MJ's cousins and nephews look just like Jordan, so if MJ was going to molest anyone, why not molest those he had the most access to, with parents (or only one in Anthony's case!) he could easily buy off?

    It's nice he wanted to say a young under age boy was good looking though, gee, and MJ was the big pervert. Carrie Fischer's comments about how "grotesque" all of that was is so accurate.

    And just to say again, I hate Taraborrelli and his book sucks dirt.
    Any inconsistencies or oddities in the childs' statements are normal of abuse victims, and also outright and repeated denials of abuse are also to be expected - this would explain to them the lack of collaboration, mj had little chance of being believed in a climate like this. Victor would be pushing at an open door, esp against a public figure some people might not feel much sympathy for to begin with.
    I was just reading stories about him from 1993, the reaction to the 1993 Oprah interview, you can see how much of a sitting duck he was for some awful story, even the cover of the magazine makes me think of what they did to OJ Simpson's photo:

    http://jetzi-mjvideo.com/books-jetzi...ew/93ew0a.html

    Whoops sorry about that lac. BTW how were jc's grades at college?
    He had a terrible habit of just memorizing what other people had written down.

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    Default Re: Redemption: A New Michael Jackson Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by respect77 View Post
    According to a girl who went to school with him in NY ca. 2003-04 (she was also on the defense's witness list), yes, he did throw parties with Michael's music...
    That's just unbelievable to me. The nerve to even do that.

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