Guest Raps - those that work & those that don't

Tony R

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I'm sure I won't remember them all, but I know Black or White was the first one & then you also have Heavy D on Dangerous.

I think it works okay on BoW and also MJ didn't write that part, I love the line, "I'm not going to spend my life being a colour', & the accompanying face wipe gesture that goes with it. Ironic as MJ did unfortunately spend his life like that in the press.

Heavy D works really well on Jam, you only realise how good he raps it when you hear the other guy doing it on the Dangerous Tour!

Then we get to HIStory where we have This Time Around with Biggie & 2 Bad with Shaq. TTA isn't the best song in the world anyway and isn't enhanced or made worse than the rap. 2 Bad is one of the best songs ever and MJ's most street sounding song as Shaq's rap works really well.

So far we 2 tracks on 14/15 track albums. That's just nice and the key is that they are spread out.

Then it gets a bit crazy. I've said before that although I like most of Invincible's songs, many don't feel like they are Michael Jackson songs. The feeling is deepened by the massive overuse of rappers.

I know it's only one more than the albums above, but the first three songs have guest raps, and I'm not sure any add to the song. Plus Biggie's one from Unbreakable is from another song (a Shaquille O'Neal one).

I really like the track Invincible (although the production isn't great) especially the bridge, 'Now someday I'll have to prove all that I said I would do', then it leads into some dodgy rap. It would be much better if that track was rockier & it went into a searing guitar solo with some MJ ad-libs.

Anyway, I'm going on. What do you think?
 
There are three raps on the Dangerous album as well (SDMW, Jam and BorW), but it doesn't stand out as much compared to Invincible because the songs are spread out.

I dislike Heavy D on Jam. I think his rap dates the song, and the song is one of my favourite MJ tracks of all time, so I kind of wish it wasn't there. The rap on She Drives Me Wild is cringeful, but then it's not his best song anyway, so I'm not losing any sleep over it. Black or White rap is kinda fun though and made all the cooler by watching Macauley Culkin in his prime lip-synch it in the video.


I liked the raps on both This Time Around and 2 Bad.


I think the rap on Unbreakable works well. I know it's lifted from another song, but the beat to Unbreakable is probably the most hip-hop thing in any MJ song and so Biggie's rhyme fits it well.


I don't particularly rate Fats as a rapper and don't feel he really adds much to Heartbreaker or Invincible. But I love Heartbreaker so much it doesn't bother me.
 
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I don't like rap, period. I don't listen to any of these songs with the exception of "Black or White." It was cute on the video and that part of the song on the album eventually grew on me.

Oh, I take it back-I do like one other "rap" song-but it's not Michael's. It's "Nothin' On You'-it came on at 2 or 3 in the morning on TV and I snapped to, turned the sound up and then discovered Bruno.
 
I think all the raps on Dangerous work really well. None of them feel forced or out of place to me
 
You forgot Thriller! :D

I think in Michael's songs they all pretty much work. I think my least favortie rap is on Unbreakable but it doesn't change my opinion about the song.

I know it doesn't count as "guest rap" but I really can't stand one of the rappers on "We Be Ballin".
 
You forgot Thriller! :D

I think in Michael's songs they all pretty much work. I think my least favortie rap is on Unbreakable but it doesn't change my opinion about the song.

I know it doesn't count as "guest rap" but I really can't stand one of the rappers on "We Be Ballin".

Shaq or Ice Cube?
 
I'm sure I won't remember them all, but I know Black or White was the first one & then you also have Heavy D on Dangerous.

I think it works okay on BoW and also MJ didn't write that part, I love the line, "I'm not going to spend my life being a colour', & the accompanying face wipe gesture that goes with it. Ironic as MJ did unfortunately spend his life like that in the press.

Heavy D works really well on Jam, you only realise how good he raps it when you hear the other guy doing it on the Dangerous Tour!

Then we get to HIStory where we have This Time Around with Biggie & 2 Bad with Shaq. TTA isn't the best song in the world anyway and isn't enhanced or made worse than the rap. 2 Bad is one of the best songs ever and MJ's most street sounding song as Shaq's rap works really well.

So far we 2 tracks on 14/15 track albums. That's just nice and the key is that they are spread out.

Then it gets a bit crazy. I've said before that although I like most of Invincible's songs, many don't feel like they are Michael Jackson songs. The feeling is deepened by the massive overuse of rappers.

I know it's only one more than the albums above, but the first three songs have guest raps, and I'm not sure any add to the song. Plus Biggie's one from Unbreakable is from another song (a Shaquille O'Neal one).

I really like the track Invincible (although the production isn't great) especially the bridge, 'Now someday I'll have to prove all that I said I would do', then it leads into some dodgy rap. It would be much better if that track was rockier & it went into a searing guitar solo with some MJ ad-libs.

Anyway, I'm going on. What do you think?

Lol Tony, I wouldn't go THAT far! I've said it a million times, one of the major issues with Invincible is the track sequencing. It's too much having Unbreak/Heartbreak/Vince, all clung together at the start, your overwhelmed with hard-hitting aggressive dance pop, & all three are the tracks with guest raps. I think they work rather well on Unbreakable & Heartbreaker, & fit in quite good around the song structure, rhythms & beats. I think they sound & feel at home on those two. I know what you mean when you say 'the production isn't great' on Invincible, but recently I've come to feel this is more to do with the aggressive hip-hop style which is produced deliberatly to sound the way it does. I think the raps on the Invincible album sound a lot more street, or authentic in comparison to say Black Or White, a track which I love, but the rap sounds very user friendly or radio friendly, pop-rap more in the style of say 90's Will Smith.

Jam is a killer MJ track, but I'd have to agree with Matty that Heavy D's rap sounds very dated in this day & age, not perticulalry forced, just very early 90's. I still love it though & if this is another Dangerous vs Invincible conversation, then like most I would say Dangerous slays Invincible, but in the case of using raps, imo, MJ introduced them during Dangerous as a way to tap into what was becoming the biggest musical trend at that time, and almost perfected them by Invincible.

This Time Around' I've always been a bit meh about in general & 2Bad works quite well, but again there's something about both that feel very mid-90's to me, which they are i guess & there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. So what I'm trying to say is Invincible is actually a billion times better than Dangerous. :D









I kid. :D
 
I'll put it shortly. I like all Michael featuring raps, even his own, Can't Let Her Get Away, Money (although he's not a rapper per se) but the ones with Fats. Why is Vincent Price's part called rap? He recited it, I'd call it monologue.
 
I could do without the rap parts on the Invincible tracks, but that doesn't mean that I don't like the songs :)
 
As many times as I've listened to all the songs on Invicible, I don't know any of the words to the raps on that album, which is my mind telling me that they don't work.

All other albums, I have no issue with any of the raps. The fit the song for me. The Unbreakable one seems out of place to me actually.
 
As many times as I've listened to all the songs on Invicible, I don't know any of the words to the raps on that album, which is my mind telling me that they don't work.

All other albums, I have no issue with any of the raps. The fit the song for me. The Unbreakable one seems out of place to me actually.

The only raps I could recite word for word are Jam and Black or White. I think the raps on Invincible are a bit more wordy and not as simplistic.
 
Guest Raps

These are the ones I like the best:

Heavy D - Jam (I also like his part on Janet's remix for Alright and I already liked some of Heavy's songs before he worked with them)
Biggie Smalls - This Time Around
Eve - Butterflies remix
Treach - Scream (Naughty By Nature remix)
Wreckx-N-Effect - She Drives Me Wild
 
LL Cool J - Serious Effect.....

I hate that rap so much.

"Its serious, you're making me delirious...."
 
LL Cool J - Serious Effect.....

I hate that rap so much.

"Its serious, you're making me delirious...."

It annoyes me, because I know that LL Cool J is a really talented rapper and can do so much better
 
I never did like the rap in the "We Are The World" remake in 2010. I like Hip-Hop, but it doesn't go with everything. I never did like the remake anyway to begin with.
 
Best - Black or White (obviously). As cheesy as it is ,everyone knows it and it's just fun to rap along to.

Worst - 2 Bad? There's a probably one on Invincible that i'm forgetting, but yeah, Shaquille O'Neil rapping lyrics featuring "grab my crotch" is definitely no good.
 
Best raps: Biggie on This Time Around and Eve on the Butterflies Remix.
 
Best: Black Or White, Jam & Unbreakable

Worst: She Drives Me Wild, Invincible & 2 Bad
 
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Snoop

A few months ago Snoop Dogg said he recorded a song with Mike. I'm interested in hearing that. Snoop managed to get Stevie Wonder to sing the hook on California Roll in 2015, and Stevie rarely released any new stuff past 1987.
 
The only raps I actually like are:

Black or White
This Time Around
2Bad (ill admit its awful though)
She Drives Me Wild
Threatened
Jam
2Bad (Refugee Camp Remix)

All of the others I wouldnt care if they were just erased from the songs. Actually, I'd prefer the songs more. The Invincible raps are god awful and never found them good enough to remember as much as a line from them.

The worst:
Serious Effect
Unbreakable
Invincible
Heartbreaker
Serious Effect

Serious Effect
 
The only raps I actually like are:

Black or White
This Time Around
2Bad (ill admit its awful though)
She Drives Me Wild
Threatened
Jam
2Bad (Refugee Camp Remix)

All of the others I wouldnt care if they were just erased from the songs. Actually, I'd prefer the songs more. The Invincible raps are god awful and never found them good enough to remember as much as a line from them.

The worst:
Serious Effect
Unbreakable
Invincible
Heartbreaker
Serious Effect

Serious Effect

Good shout out for 2Bad Refugee Camp Remix. Apart from it being too short it's one of the very few MJ remixes to work. The Beat It refrain is genius.
 
innuendo141;4179050 said:
The Invincible raps
I listen to rap music and I've never heard of Fats, other than on this album. As far as I know, he's never released anything himself. There's no information about him either. The only thing I've seen about Fats is that he was a protégé of Darkchild. Maybe he's not a real rapper at all like Bill Bottrell on Black Or White.
 
Rod Serling

Speaking of Invincible, although it's spliced together, I thought Rod Serling rapping was cool. I used to watch Twilight Zone.
 
I like the raps, but they are so hard to sing :busted:
 
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I like the raps, but they are so hard to sing :busted:
That's why I don't get when people say it takes no talent to rap and that anybody can do it. Sure there's some that are simple, like any other genre. But other raps are complex, either lyric wise or the rap style of the MC. Sampling can be extravagant as well, it's not all Puff Daddy style. Weird Al has said when he does parodies of rap songs, he often has to write way more lyrics than with songs that just contain singing.
 
That's why I don't get when people say it takes no talent to rap and that anybody can do it. Sure there's some that are simple, like any other genre. But other raps are complex, either lyric wise or the rap style of the MC. Sampling can be extravagant as well, it's not all Puff Daddy style. Weird Al has said when he does parodies of rap songs, he often has to write way more lyrics than with songs that just contain singing.

That's true, it takes a lot of talent to rap!

Also, to answer the question of the thread, I would say that the most memorable (and the best) are the following:

- Jam
- Black Or White
- 2 Bad
- This Time Around

As much as I love songs like Unbreakable I hardly remember how the rap goes.
 
well while I like Unbreakable I thought it took sampling a little too far for Michael wit B.I.G. taking a verse from a song as a sample is already enough but they took both the song and the instrumental from BIG songs and sampled them? a bit much... I still like the song but it was a bit much for the innovator MJ
 
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