USA's attitude towards MJ

mj_frenzy

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What was the USA's attitude towards MJ ?

Indifference, dislike or even hatred ?

MJ didn't perform at all in his own country during the Dangerous World Tour and neither did he during the HIStory World Tour (with the exception of Hawaii).

More recently, the fifty "This Is It" shows were scheduled to take place in a european city (London) with no intention of bringing them back to USA.

Moreover, even in the 00's MJ was still held in high regard in Europe and Asia (especially in Japan) and was respected even higher than presidents and prime ministers in many of them.
 
In terms of the media, it was definitely hatred. I don't think I've ever seen another celebrity attacked so harshly by the media. And for years.

As for the general public, I'd say it was mixed. He's always had his hardcore fanbase here in the states, but I think it dwindled during the various scandals. Unfortunately, the media was very persuasive in terms of turning people off from him.
 
Michael did perform at Super Bowl in 1993 so I don't think he was trying to avoid US.
 
I'm just gonna leave this here...


That is all.
 
I guess you have to split it to 1970-1990...adored

1990 - 1993... Still loved by many but started to be disliked my some

1995-1997.... Sharp decline. After initial History release.

1997 onwards more disliked than liked.

It's unfair to say the whole country disliked him.

What is so sad is that when it all started to turn bad about 1993, he did some great PR with Oprah and that fabulous Grammys speech and I thought it was all going to turn round for him, then the bastard allegations came and ruined any chance of a turnaround.
 
I think Invincible was planned to be his big US comeback, with the MSG shows, the TRL interview and Virgin megastore signing. Even the music was far more catered to a US audience than European. And the album did stick around on the US charts for a good three months or so thanks to the radio success of Butterflies, which is a lot better than here in the UK where it had completely fallen off the radar after the first three weeks.


Perhaps if circumstances had been different back in 2001, then Sony and MJ could've really made Invincible a massive success Stateside. I do think there was a certain amount of good-will for Michael in the US around that time, with the likes of Justin, Britney and Destiny's Child all lining up to sing his praises. Just look at the turn-out at Times Square when he did the Invincible signing, people were going nuts for him.


Unfortunately MJ/Sony didn't build on the momentum and it all kind of fizzled out. Then came 2003 arrest and it was all back to square one again.
 
I think Invincible was planned to be his big US comeback, with the MSG shows, the TRL interview and Virgin megastore signing. And the album did stick around on the US charts for a good three months or so thanks to the radio success of Butterflies, which is a lot better than here in the UK where it had completely fallen off the radar after the first three weeks.


Perhaps if circumstances had been different back in 2001, then Sony and MJ could've really made Invincible a massive success Stateside. I do think there was a certain amount of good-will for Michael in the US around that time, with the likes of Justin, Britney and Destiny's Child all lining up to sing his praises. Just look at the turn-out at Times Square when he did the Invincible signing, people were going nuts for him.


Unfortunately MJ/Sony didn't build on the momentum and it all kind of fizzled out. Then came 2003 arrest and it was all back to square one again.

Yes exactly. Plus also race is such a big issue in the US and the constant accusation of him wanting to be white hurt him more than anything else I think.
 
I think Invincible was planned to be his big US comeback, with the MSG shows, the TRL interview and Virgin megastore signing. Even the music was far more catered to a US audience than European. And the album did stick around on the US charts for a good three months or so thanks to the radio success of Butterflies, which is a lot better than here in the UK where it had completely fallen off the radar after the first three weeks.


Perhaps if circumstances had been different back in 2001, then Sony and MJ could've really made Invincible a massive success Stateside. I do think there was a certain amount of good-will for Michael in the US around that time, with the likes of Justin, Britney and Destiny's Child all lining up to sing his praises. Just look at the turn-out at Times Square when he did the Invincible signing, people were going nuts for him.


Unfortunately MJ/Sony didn't build on the momentum and it all kind of fizzled out. Then came 2003 arrest and it was all back to square one again.

yes, it was more r'n'b-oriented.

But, MJ during that period looked a little bit depressed even when he celebrated his birthday at NASDAQ
 
In terms of the media, it was definitely hatred. I don't think I've ever seen another celebrity attacked so harshly by the media. And for years.

Yes, but the media were far more malicious in the UK, the British press are notorious for being the worst in the world and even coined the "W-acko J-acko" moniker we knew he so loathed. And yet he never stopped touring over here and even announced his comeback residency in London.

I think his reticence to tour the US was more because he felt unjustly persecuted and let down by the authorities in the US than anything to do with the media.
 
Yes, if the public were more behind him it would been irrelevant what the press said. Let's face it, the press hate anyone who is too successful and want to see them fall.

It was more the authorities, if you don't feel safe then you do t want to be there.
 
I guess you have to split it to 1970-1990...adored

1990 - 1993... Still loved by many but started to be disliked my some

1995-1997.... Sharp decline. After initial History release.

1997 onwards more disliked than liked.

It's unfair to say the whole country disliked him.

What is so sad is that when it all started to turn bad about 1993, he did some great PR with Oprah and that fabulous Grammys speech and I thought it was all going to turn round for him, then the bastard allegations came and ruined any chance of a turnaround.

Why so much hatred during HIStory era ?
 
I think until Thriller he was more popular in the US than anywhere else. Thriller was a global phenomenon, but then from Bad on his popularity started to shift to other parts of the world, outside of the US. That does not mean he was not still popular in the US, but his popularity declined a bit but stayed the same or even grew in other countries. (Just some signs of it: Bad and Dangerous being a bigger seller in some countries than Thriller, Earth Song being MJ's most popular single ever in some countries etc.)

I think the decline in popularity in the US has many reasons: the allegations are of course the main one, but even before that there was a certain decline which probably had to do with his changing appearance and the fact that people were unsure what to make of it (esp. before he announced his vitiligo on Oprah). I think it wasn't that much of a problem for other countries, but in the US with its history with racism, slavery, black and white issues - it was a bigger issue for people, both black and white.

Also there were new trends emerging (notably hip-hop among black youth and grunge among whites) which kind of made MJ "uncool" in certain circles. And yes, yet another reason is that he kind of abandoned the US in touring for other markets. All that played a role. Mainly, of course the allegations and the subsequent brainwash and limitless slander by the US media. And yes, the UK media can be just as bad, if not worse, yet it seems to me the Brits just do not take their media as seriously because it did not seem to affect MJ's popularity in Britain. Blood on the Dance Floor was Nr 1. in the UK, This Is It sold out in no time etc.
 
Why so much hatred during HIStory era ?

I think HIStory era is really 1993-1997 from this aspect, because it really starts with the allegations. The album is mostly in answer of those. So the hate for and unfair treatment of HIStory in certain media has to do with that. Most of US media criticism for the album accused him of whining about issues that supposedly no one cares about but him and that he has no right whining about. It was just a deliberately cynical and stupid attitude towards him, not even wanting to understand his POV. I think those writers believed the allegations. I cannot see how any other way one can label the album as whining or treat it as cynically as they did. Another reason was MJ's media criticism, which the press of course did not like, so they rather dismissed it as unimportant.
 
Why so much hatred during HIStory era ?

I never used the word hatred, but like I say, allegations, plus skin colour, plus like Respect77 says it just wasn't cool.

Don't forget once an artist gets to a certain level it just isn't cool to like them anymore. People like to believe they have discovered a new artist etc and not following the crowd.
 
Do you guys think if he had bought the HIStory tour to the States that he could've sold out stadiums like he was doing in Europe at the time?

I personally believe he could've. I think his popularity was so often underestimated Stateside. I remember a lot of media folks acting surprised when Invincible topped the Billboard album chart... and I was like.... ummm... yeah... duh, it's Michael Jackson for God's sake.
 
^ I think he would have got a lot of flak for lip-synching.
 
I think HIStory era is really 1993-1997 from this aspect, because it really starts with the allegations. The album is mostly in answer of those. So the hate for and unfair treatment of HIStory in certain media has to do with that. Most of US media criticism for the album accused him of whining about issues that supposedly no one cares about but him and that he has no right whining about. It was just a deliberately cynical and stupid attitude towards him, not even wanting to understand his POV. I think those writers believed the allegations. I cannot see how any other way one can label the album as whining or treat it as cynically as they did. Another reason was MJ's media criticism, which the press of course did not like, so they rather dismissed it as unimportant.


right, and maybe the song "Tabloid Junkie" irritated them even more.
 
Do you guys think if he had bought the HIStory tour to the States that he could've sold out stadiums like he was doing in Europe at the time?

I personally believe he could've. I think his popularity was so often underestimated Stateside. I remember a lot of media folks acting surprised when Invincible topped the Billboard album chart... and I was like.... ummm... yeah... duh, it's Michael Jackson for God's sake.

Maybe the had already calculated the pros & cons (profits, etc...) and decided not to proceed
 
He didn't get any flak for it anywhere else, so I'm not sure if it would've been much different in the US.

But the US media would have waited for him with their knives out, so any mistake, fault would have been heavily criticized. The extensive lip-syncing on that tour is not a good look and actually with that they would have had a legit reason to harshly criticize him (unlike for the album). Of course, it would have been different if he had sung live.
 
But the US media would have waited for him with their knives out, so any mistake, fault would have been heavily criticized. The extensive lip-syncing on that tour is not a good look and actually with that they would have had a legit reason to harshly criticize him (unlike for the album). Of course, it would have been different if he had sung live.

Agree, any excuse.

Plus I admit if I was writing a review I would have criticised him, and I'm a hardcore fan!
 
The '93 allegations destroyed his reputation here and was the beginning of a persistent unpopularity. The media never let up on him and I'd say the majority of the general public believed he was guilty and weird. However, the reception was very good for Invincible, Virgin signing, MSG concerts... and then the second set of allegations came and the media was so horribly vicious. :(

I'm not sure he could've sold out stadiums here during HIStory. :unsure:

I hope I don't sound like Debbie Downer here. :blush: I would've been the first in line for any concert of his during History since I never had the chance with the Victory, Bad, or Dangerous tours.
 
I think on one hand, yes his popularity declined due to the allegations and the resulting hostile media campaign against him, but on the other hand his career still survived. Yes, he was not as popular as during Thriller or even Bad, Dangerous but his music still sold (Thriller 25, Number Ones, Essential etc.). Look at this in this way: I can't see any other artist for whom two rounds of child abuse allegations (1993, 2005) would not have been a total career-finisher. Heck, for Michael's own sister a bare titty was a career-finisher. But Michael's career surived the most horrible slander one can imagine. Twice. Not unscatched, but it still survived. That speaks for the strenght of his legacy.
 
I think on one hand, yes his popularity declined due to the allegations and the resulting hostile media campaign against him, but on the other hand his career still survived. Yes, he was not as popular as during Thriller or even Bad, Dangerous but his music still sold (Thriller 25, Number Ones, Essential etc.). Look at this in this way: I can't see any other artist for whom two rounds of child abuse allegations (1993, 2005) would not have been a total career-finisher. Heck, for Michael's own sister a bare titty was a career-finisher. But Michael's career surived the most horrible slander one can imagine. Twice. Not unscatched, but it still survived. That speaks for the strenght of his legacy.

lol@ the bolded part.
 
On the Janet point, she didn't have the quality of material to drag her out of that particular hole.

Don't get me wrong, from '86-'95 I was a massive fan, her janet album is one if my favourites. But after the Super Bowl only a great album would have fixed her career. But she never released a good album again. At least MJ kept releasing g great stuff so he still had Number One records even if his popularity never soared the same heights.
 
^ Well, after the trial MJ did not release anything new. Just compilations and the Thriller anniversary. Still once he announced This Is It everyone lost their minds and wanted to see him. Meanwhile Janet begged Michael to go on tour with her and their brothers because Janet was not able to sell out venues by herself. I don't think this is all just about current strong material. MJ did not have anything current out when he announced TII. It's about his legacy which could not be destroyed even by the most horrible slander. I don't think most artists would survive that.

In fact, when you compare the number of spins MJ's music gets on Spotify to his peers (eg. Prince, Madonna, George Michael etc.) you can see how much more presistent his legacy is. And those artists did not even go through hardships which are comparable to MJ's. Yes, Prince had his falling out with Warner, George Michael was forced out of the closet by an incident with the police and Madonna had her usual provocative stuff, but none of that is comparable to what MJ went through and his music is still standing strong despite of all the slander.
 
^ Well, after the trial MJ did not release anything new. Just compilations and the Thriller anniversary. Still once he announced This Is It everyone lost their minds and wanted to see him. Meanwhile Janet begged Michael to go on tour with her and their brothers because Janet was not able to sell out venues by herself. I don't think this is all just about current strong material. MJ did not have anything current out when he announced TII. It's about his legacy which could not be destroyed even by the most horrible slander. I don't think most artists would survive that.

In fact, when you compare the number of spins MJ's music gets on Spotify to his peers (eg. Prince, Madonna, George Michael etc.) you can see how much more presistent his legacy is. And those artists did not even go through hardships which are comparable to MJ's. Yes, Prince had his falling out with Warner, George Michael was forced out of the closet by an incident with the police and Madonna had her usual provocative stuff, but none of that is comparable to what MJ went through and his music is still standing strong despite of all the slander.

Thats it, and the end of the day good, nay great music will never die, but it does mean that most people still presume MJ was an 80s/early 90s act and that annoys me somewhat.

Bit I guess that's the same with most strong fans of any artist. The stuff they love isn't the stuff that radio/general public know of.

But MJ is the only act where you can play people full studio albums and even non fans will know half to most of the tracks.

You can't do that with anyone else including Beatles and Elvis.
 
Thats it, and the end of the day good, nay great music will never die, but it does mean that most people still presume MJ was an 80s/early 90s act and that annoys me somewhat.

Well, MJ only released one studio album in the 2000s (2001), so of course he will not be presumed as a current artist, so I'm not sure what you mean by this. Actually one of his most played songs both on Spotify and YouTube is TDCAU, so his later stuff gets some love as well. But of course, Billie Jean, Beat It, Man In The Mirror, all the usual suspects are on top. That's only natural. But like you said that's same with any artist. In fact, I'm glad for MJ Billie Jean is his most played song on Spotify. I'd be somewhat annoyed if I was a George Michael fan and saw that his most played track is Careless Whisper. :p

Madonna is still active and has been putting out records in the last decade as well (unlike MJ), yet her most played song remains Like A Prayer. And Prince's is When Doves Cry. I think it's just natural that all artists have a popularity peak and one or a couple of signature songs that are associated with him/her the most by the general public.
 
Well, MJ only released one studio album in the 2000s (2001), so of course he will not be presumed as a current artist, so I'm not sure what you mean by this. Actually one of his most played songs both on Spotify and YouTube is TDCAU, so his later stuff gets some love as well. But of course, Billie Jean, Beat It, Man In The Mirror, all the usual suspects are on top. That's only natural. But like you said that's same with any artist. In fact, I'm glad for MJ Billie Jean is his most played song on Spotify. I'd be somewhat annoyed if I was a George Michael fan and saw that his most played track is Careless Whisper. :p

Madonna is still active and has been putting out records in the last decade as well (unlike MJ), yet her most played song remains Like A Prayer. And Prince's is When Doves Cry. I think it's just natural that all artists have a popularity peak and one or a couple of signature songs that are associated with him/her the most by the general public.

I mean that everyone knows the songs from Thriller and Bad but forget most of the songs from History, most of Dangerous, songs like BOTDF and YRMW. Yes there is the odd exception like TDCAU but mostly it's 80s stuff. Especially when we all agree 90s was his creative peak.
 
I just wanted to say this thread is awesome & due to the sheer quality of posts by Respect, Tony, Matty & others, I have nothing to add. Ladies & Gentlemen, it's a pleasure. Please continue. :reading: :read:
 
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