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Does it matter who puts together an album/project?

Does it matter who puts together an album/project?

  • Yes - only people Michael would have approved of!

    Votes: 5 23.8%

  • No - as long as the material is of good quality!

    Votes: 6 28.6%

  • Neutral - can't quite give a solid answer!

    Votes: 10 47.6%
  • Total voters
    21

AlwaysThere

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When discussing posthumous albums, I often see fans ask questions along the lines of, "Why wasn't Quincy Jones involved with this song?" or "How come they don't ask Brad Buxer and Michael Prince to come back and finish these tracks up properly?" And this begged a question that has been lying dormant for a while...

Does it really matter who puts together an album and/or project?

My answer is a simple no. And here's why:

Teddy Riley is a producer who worked with Michael frequently during the Dangerous and Invincible sessions. Riley is often criticized for ruining "Hollywood Tonight" with pedestrian production and a spoken-word bridge that completely negates the central concept of the song.

Lenny Kravitz is a singer/songwriter who produced "Another Day" with Michael in 1999 and returned to complete it eleven years later. This posthumous version is often considered much weaker than the original version.

L.A. Reid is a producer/songwriter who worked with Michael temporarily during the Dangerous sessions. Reid handed innumerable tracks to a number of producers and gave them free reign to do whatever the hell they wanted with them, including doing away with the original instrumentation and essentially writing their own song around Michael's pre-existing vocal tracks.

John Branca is a businessman who worked with Michael sporadically over the course of several decades. Branca is easily the most criticized man in Michael's entire inner circle due to his poor handling of the Estate and its posthumous projects - he pushed for the Cascio tracks heavily in 2010 and is the front runner of the planned HIStory Tour theatrical release, which has been met with predominantly negative opinions from fans.

These are men who spent countless combined hours with Michael - speaking to him, observing his work ethics, nothing his borderline obsessive approach to his music and its presentation to the public. It only goes to negate the belief that only collaborators and caretakers should be in charge of posthumous material.

Birchey is a producer and fan of Michael Jackson. He's put together several remixes which have all been heavily acclaimed by the fan community - particularly his take on "Hollywood Tonight," which is considered by some to be the best available version. This is a man who never came into contact with Michael in his entire life.

I personally do not care who is involved with the production of a posthumous project. It could be Quincy Jones and Brad Buxer or Justin Bieber and Skrillex for all I care. If the final product is respectful towards the material Michael had left behind and was enjoyable in itself, I consider it to be a success.
 
If they have to go the route of 'finishing' already existing tracks, then I do prefer it to be done by the people who originally worked on the song. However, this only works if they are given the guideline to stick to the plans Michael had with the song, polish things up and not take liberties with the material (the 2014 version of Xscape, for instance, is obviously just a Rodney Jerkins remix, rather than a 'finished' track).

As for being in charge of the projects overall (so the creative side of the Branca/McClain position), I don't think this has to be someone who worked with Michael necessarily. It's much more important that this person is a genuine fan of Michael's work, has a great deal of respect for his artistry, and is detail-oriented. If we can find someone like Ernst Jorgensen (the man who runs Follow That Dream, the Elvis collectors label), who fits all of the above PLUS had experience in the music business before he started running FTD, that would be absolutely ideal.
 
Keep Michaels vision and make a perfect final song - then I do not care who does it really. - But it is very important they stay true to MJ's vision with the song and DO NOT change (remove) lyrics or bridges..!!
 
If the song is great it doesn't really matter who made it. But always I want to hear the original version too.
 
I don't mind who it is produced by, as long as it keeps Michael's music integrity in tact. I also believe they should continue releasing the original recording's. Mainly focusing on the fan base, i enjoy hearing what Michael originally intended.
 
I would love to see Quincy Jones, Brad Buxer and Michael Prince back.

Teddy Riley did masterful job producing Hollywood Tonight. Spoken bridge is awful and he shouldn't have cut out that one line from the song even though Sony probably insisted on doing that. His work on fake songs is also very good - so I want Teddy Riley back also. Maybe to produce new version of Joy.

Lenny Kravitz did great job producing new version of Another Day. I love the album version, never liked the original one too much. MJ vocals are so powerful in it but the original music is so demo/midi sounding. Nice that he added real drums, bass and guitars instead of synths. I don't want him back though unless he has more unreleased MJ tracks.

LA Reid did amazing job with Xscape. I love the concept of the album. Still, it could have been done better. But definitely the best posthumous release since This Is It movie, so yes I want him back to do another posthumous album similar to Xscape. He obviously knows how to pick right producers for doing the job, select the right tracks and how to promote the record (for 1 month - this can be drastically improved, but still better than other posthumous releases).

John Branca fu*ked up massively by pushing the release of fake tracks and that is the biggest mistake he ever did. Huge stain on MJ's career and catalog. But I pray for HIStory Tour theatrical release and blu-ray release after that. Can't wait for that, counting days..

Birchey?? Why is he even mentioned here. I respect him for doing all he did for exposing fake Cascio tracks but his mix of Hollywood is just fanmade amateur mix. Nothing special.
 
Xscape was a remix album and the only reason I bought it was because of the originals. As long as they give us the untouched demos I will continue to support these album releases.

As for who should work on them? It's really a double edge sword to say the least. You have Teddy Riley who worked with MJ and made what is arguably MJ's finest work but still managed to somewhat butcher Hollywood Tonight, in my humble opinion of course, I know you disagree with me on this Alwaysthere;). What's important to remember is that these producers that worked with Michael may be, and I believe this is the case for many, influenced by todays music. Even if they bring back someone who worked on a song from with MJ from the 80's who is to say that they won't turn it into something that sounds contemporary by todays standard alá APWNN and Xscape?

It's easy to say just "Finish Michael's Vision for the songs" but what exactly was Michael's vision for these songs? Nobody can be 100% sure. I do agree that they have to respect the integrity of the artist and sell out to fads or hollow contemporizations (is that even a word?) The best way I can explain it is by a quote that I saw from someone that was working on restoring the movies that was getting archived in the National Film Registry, it goes like this:

" We're not creating anything what we're doing is to try and take what people made and try to preserve it and make it look like what it was suppose to look like. The trick is not to change it."
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
It's easy to say just "Finish Michael's Vision for the songs" but what exactly was Michael's vision for these songs? Nobody can be 100% sure. I do agree that they have to respect the integrity of the artist and sell out to fads or hollow contemporizations (is that even a word?) The best way I can explain it is by a quote that I saw from someone that was working on restoring the movies that was getting archived in the National Film Registry, it goes like this:

" We're not creating anything what we're doing is to try and take what people made and try to preserve it and make it look like what it was suppose to look like. The trick is not to change it."
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This is a very valid point. We cannot be 100% sure. However, this does of course differ from track-to-track. There are songs which Michael worked on for years, for which he told people what it was that he was looking for, or for which he left notes behind. Another thing to remember is that Michael tended to record vocals pretty late during the process of creating a song. Thus, one could say it is fair to assume that if a song has complete or semi-complete vocals that go beyond mumbling, he at least must have liked the direction they were going in. Of course he could have changed his mind later on, but still, right?

I think in the situation of uncertainty, it is best to stick as closely as possible to what Michael did leave behind. There's no absolute guarantee that it would have sounded like that had he gotten to finish it, but it is still more likely to have sounded like that than like a totally new creation by a producer he never worked with.

I totally agree with the quote you posted as well. A song finished by whomever is never going to be exactly what it would have been if Michael would have gotten to finish it (this is exactly why I personally am not really interested in anything but the originals). But you can make an attempt to get it as close as possible. Having the people who originally worked with Michael on the track finish it, with the explicit guideline that they should try to stick to his idea for the song, would probably the closest they could get to that. Also, be honest about what they are - attempts at presenting a finalized version of his vision (emphasis on 'attempts'), don't market them as if they are the songs Michael definitely would have made. And have the producers share their stories with us. Let them tell us the history of the song, from the moment they started working on it with Michael to the point they started working on it to 'finish' it. Have them explain why they added the parts they did (they could show notes, tell us anecdotes about Michael telling them he wanted a certain bass sound, etc). It would make for a much more interesting piece than the self-congratulatory Xscape documentary, as the focus would actually be on Michael and HIS music. As it should be.
 
No thankyou to the book. Forword by Charles Thomson,really doesn`t make it credible.
 
Annita said:
No thankyou to the book. Forword by Charles Thomson,really doesn`t make it credible.
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It doesn't have a foreword by Charles Thomson. The foreword is written by Matt Forger, Michael's engineer from Thriller through HIStory. Charles Thomson only wrote a short piece about the book, he had no role in the creation of it whatsoever.

To me this book actually seems to be extremely credible, because many of the people originally involved with the creation of the songs were exclusively interviewed for this. And as is explained in the video on Facebook, they basically get to share their stories, without the author inserting his own opinion or analysis (as you sometimes see happen with music books). Furthermore, he has given us some of the best stories about MJ's creative process already on his website (the detailed story full of previously unknown info about the One Night Only concerts a few months ago being a recent example). He has a great track record.

I am definitely getting this book and I think any fan with an interest in Michael's creative process should.
 
Hess, the code is FriendOfMine

Foreword is by Matt Forger and it's beautifully written.
 
SoCav said:
It doesn't have a foreword by Charles Thomson. The foreword is written by Matt Forger, Michael's engineer from Thriller through HIStory. Charles Thomson only wrote a short piece about the book, he had no role in the creation of it whatsoever.

.
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Thankyou for the correction
 
:coffee: I voted neutral, because it's not like I'd have a choice in the matter, anyway...

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Well I would ideally go for the first one ...Only people Michael approved of. But I voted for the last one neutral....cause of time, but I'd always, always, always , want to hear Michaels original work/idea.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I personally do not care who is involved with the production of a posthumous project. It could be Quincy Jones and Brad Buxer or Justin Bieber and Skrillex for all I care. If the final product is respectful towards the material Michael had left behind and was enjoyable in itself, I consider it to be a success.
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Thanks for mentioning my beautiful Sonny [Skrillex] :huggy: appreciated.
 
Every MJ song after 2009 should have remained untouched. I prefer a demo to a version that has been finalized without MJ’s vision & approval.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I personally do not care who is involved with the production of a posthumous project. It could be Quincy Jones and Brad Buxer ]or Justin Bieber and Skrillex for all I care. If the final product is respectful towards the material Michael had left behind and was enjoyable in itself, I consider it to be a success.
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Are you drunk? I don't want that teeny bopper anywhere near Michael
 
analogue said:
Are you drunk? I don't want that teeny bopper anywhere near Michael
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Bieber was only used as an example.

But my point stands. If his name was officially attached to a project and it turned out wonderful, I wouldn't have any complaints. And I'm sure most fans wouldn't either - they would only be picky because it's Justin Bieber.
 
Justin has no business being anywhere near a Michael Jackson recording. It's bad enough he appears on the We Are The World remake.
 
But the point remains: would the fan community really be that angry if Justin ended up serving an absolutely wonderful release?
 
AlwaysThere said:
But the point remains: would the fan community really be that angry if Justin ended up serving an absolutely wonderful release?
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It could be an amazing song with Justin giving some really great vocals and the fans would still shit all over it simply because Bieber's on the record. While I'm not too big on artist's dueting with Michael on songs that aren't intended to be duets or have complete vocals, as long as we have access to solo versions then I'm content. What they did with LNFSG was perfect. Give us a contemporised song and the original demo, then on top of that provided us with Justin Timberlake's awesome rendition. They got it perfect from the get-go, which gives me confidence.

Personally, I don't mind if Bieber's on a track with Michael. When his version of STTR leaked in 2013, I actually rather liked it, Bieber gave some great vocals and the instrumental was kickass. I'd be lying if I said I haven't danced to it recently. You know, Bieber might've been an asshole back in 2013/2014 (he seems to have realised his stuff-ups now) but unless artists have done something really drastic (like rape or murder) I almost always separate the artist from the person. So no, as long as he gives it his all, I don't mind if Bieber's on a track with Michael.
 
HIStoric said:
It could be an amazing song with Justin giving some really great vocals and the fans would still shit all over it simply because Bieber's on the record. While I'm not too big on artist's dueting with Michael on songs that aren't intended to be duets or have complete vocals, as long as we have access to solo versions then I'm content. What they did with LNFSG was perfect. Give us a contemporised song and the original demo, then on top of that provided us with Justin Timberlake's awesome rendition. They got it perfect from the get-go, which gives me confidence.

Personally, I don't mind if Bieber's on a track with Michael. When his version of STTR leaked in 2013, I actually rather liked it, Bieber gave some great vocals and the instrumental was kickass. I'd be lying if I said I haven't danced to it recently. You know, Bieber might've been an asshole back in 2013/2014 (he seems to have realised his stuff-ups now) but unless artists have done something really drastic (like rape or murder) I almost always separate the artist from the person. So no, as long as he gives it his all, I don't mind if Bieber's on a track with Michael.
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I don't mind duets with General accepted artists, like JT or Bruno Mars. Or with people Michael worked with or wanted to. And they have to be respectful. I don't want to have someone on a duet whenhe believes Michael was guilty...
 
HIStoric said:
It could be an amazing song with Justin giving some really great vocals and the fans would still shit all over it simply because Bieber's on the record. While I'm not too big on artist's dueting with Michael on songs that aren't intended to be duets or have complete vocals, as long as we have access to solo versions then I'm content. What they did with LNFSG was perfect. Give us a contemporised song and the original demo, then on top of that provided us with Justin Timberlake's awesome rendition. They got it perfect from the get-go, which gives me confidence.

Personally, I don't mind if Bieber's on a track with Michael. When his version of STTR leaked in 2013, I actually rather liked it, Bieber gave some great vocals and the instrumental was kickass. I'd be lying if I said I haven't danced to it recently. You know, Bieber might've been an asshole back in 2013/2014 (he seems to have realised his stuff-ups now) but unless artists have done something really drastic (like rape or murder) I almost always separate the artist from the person. So no, as long as he gives it his all, I don't mind if Bieber's on a track with Michael.
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Very, very wonderful points, though I actually didn't mean that Justin would record anything. By 'involvement,' I meant that he oversaw the outcome of the release - song selection, production, so on and so forth.
 
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