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MJ's Album and 'Unreleased' Songs

Psychoniff

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Is it me or are many of MJ's album oriented cuts and unreleased material more daring and challenging to the listener that many of his hit records?

That's What You Get For Being Polite
Destiny
Sunset Driver
Behind The Mask
Scared Of The Moon
Be Not Always
Speed Demon
StreetWalker
Prince Of Fame
Abortion Papers
Cheater
Al Capone
Do You Know Where Your Children Are
Somebody Put Your Hand Out
Money
Tabloid Junkie
Little Susie
In The Back
Morphine
SuperFly Sister
Is It Scary/Ghosts (minor release)
We've Had Enough
Shout
Much Too Soon
 
Psychoniff said:
Is it me or are many of MJ's album oriented cuts and unreleased material more daring and challenging to the listener that many of his hit records?
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If by 'daring and challenging' you mean 'less commercial' then well yeah. You'll find most artists release their most commercial music as their singles since they're more likely to reach the top of the charts.
 
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HIStoric said:
If by 'daring and challenging' you mean 'less commercial' then well yeah. You'll find most artists release their most commercial music as their singles since they're more likely to reach the top of the charts.
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True, but what about Prince and Bruce Springsteen?
 
I think this is the reason why Prince fans and... every MJ critic thinks that Michael only made songs which appealed to teens and kids (BoW, Thriller, Beat It, Bad etc etc.), and since people tend to forget his other huge hits from the 90s (In The Closet, Scream, BotDF, TDCAU) they think that his music was not "mature".

I personally think MJ's singles choices were spot on (except for Invincible - sadly)
 
Commercialism wasn't one of Michael's key concerns as time progressed. Starting with Dangerous he began to take more creative liberties with album oriented material ("Little Susie," "Morphine," "Will You Be There," "Speechless") and only pushed the most modern and commercially viable songs songs ("Black or White," "Scream," "Blood on the Dance Floor," "You Rock My World") to single releases.

This was also somewhat of his downfall. Some of his unreleased stuff ranks higher than anything he did release.

"Do You Know Where Your Children Are" trumps at least half of what was actually released on Dangerous, while almost every Invincible outtake ("Beautiful Girl," "Shout," "Fall Again") is stronger than what we were given.

Sometimes Michael was incredibly daring; sometimes not quite enough.
 
Prince Of Pop said:
^^Invincible wasn't MJ's call. That's all on Sony.
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Agreed. He was thinking more on the lines of Unbreakable and Threatened which essentially were in the same category as Scream, TDCAU and (though unreleased) WYWTOM.
 
MAQ said:
I think this is the reason why Prince fans and... every MJ critic thinks that Michael only made songs which appealed to teens and kids (BoW, Thriller, Beat It, Bad etc etc.), and since people tend to forget his other huge hits from the 90s (In The Closet, Scream, BotDF, TDCAU) they think that his music was not "mature".

I personally think MJ's singles choices were spot on (except for Invincible - sadly)
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I think he got song selection wrong though i.e. Girlfriend, The Girl Is Mine, I Just Can't Loving You, Just Good Friends, Heal The World, Gone Too Soon, Come Together, Smile. Yeck, did he not believe in the power of stand-alones? When Say say say dropped it shot to #1. He could have and should have released them all as stand-alones. It becomes even more stark when you look at the unreleased demo/outtakes from each era that would have been a better fit i.e. Got The Hots, Price Of Fame, Cheater, Streetwalker, In The Back etc.
 
Psychoniff said:
I think he got song selection wrong though i.e. Girlfriend, The Girl Is Mine, I Just Can't Loving You, Just Good Friends, Heal The World, Gone Too Soon, Come Together, Smile. Yeck, did he not believe in the power of stand-alones? When Say say say dropped it shot to #1. He could have and should have released them all as stand-alones. It becomes even more stark when you look at the unreleased demo/outtakes from each era that would have been a better fit i.e. Got The Hots, Price Of Fame, Cheater, Streetwalker, In The Back etc.
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From Off The Wall - Invincible, there are 5 songs in his catalogue (I think) that have another prominent singer on them. That's 6% of the songs on his CDs. I think we can be fairly confident that Michael Jackson believes in the power of stand-alones :p

I agree that some of his unreleased songs could've replaced the released songs for a better album (especially in the Invincible era) but honestly, for the most part I like the duet partners Michael has. My favourite is Say Say Say! Both the song and short film are really great and as a Beatles fan, I think having both MJ and Macca completes the whole package :) I actually wish MJ and Macca did more songs together but alas...
 
HIStoric said:
From Off The Wall - Invincible, there are 5 songs in his catalogue (I think) that have another prominent singer on them. That's 6% of the songs on his CDs. I think we can be fairly confident that Michael Jackson believes in the power of stand-alones :p

I agree that some of his unreleased songs could've replaced the released songs for a better album (especially in the Invincible era) but honestly, for the most part I like the duet partners Michael has. My favourite is Say Say Say! Both the song and short film are really great and as a Beatles fan, I think having both MJ and Macca completes the whole package :) I actually wish MJ and Macca did more songs together but alas...
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I think the Bad Era seems to me have made the strongest case for outtakes. I mean Cheater, Streetwalker, Abortion Papers, Al Capone and Price Of Fame? If those songs replaced the weakest tracks on Bad, goodness knows how much better the response may have been from critics.
 
Psychoniff said:
I think the Bad Era seems to me have made the strongest case for outtakes. I mean Cheater, Streetwalker, Abortion Papers, Al Capone and Price Of Fame? If those songs replaced the weakest tracks on Bad, goodness knows how much better the response may have been from critics.
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I don't think any of those songs are decisively better than the songs on the album. And I LOVE Cheater and Streetwalker (especially Cheater which is a big fave of mine) but Bad is perfect as it is. Bad is a greatest hits collection already with 5 #1 hits (and Smooth Criminal isn't even among those) so I don't think there's anything to complain about Bad.
 
respect77 said:
I don't think any of those songs are decisively better than the songs on the album. And I LOVE Cheater and Streetwalker (especially Cheater which is a big fave of mine) but Bad is perfect as it is. Bad is a greatest hits collection already with 5 #1 hits (and Smooth Criminal isn't even among those) so I don't think there's anything to complain about Bad.
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Hear hear. I wouldn't touch a hair on Bad's head! I enjoy Streetwalker being an amazing bonus track anyways. We still have it either way!
 
respect77 said:
Bad is a greatest hits collection already with 5 #1 hits (and Smooth Criminal isn't even among those) so I don't think there's anything to complain about Bad.
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That's an excellent way to describe Bad - a greatest hits collection. It was one of the last MJ albums I bought because so many of the songs were actually on The Essential Michael Jackson!
 
respect77 said:
I don't think any of those songs are decisively better than the songs on the album. And I LOVE Cheater and Streetwalker (especially Cheater which is a big fave of mine) but Bad is perfect as it is. Bad is a greatest hits collection already with 5 #1 hits (and Smooth Criminal isn't even among those) so I don't think there's anything to complain about Bad.
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innuendo141 said:
Hear hear. I wouldn't touch a hair on Bad's head! I enjoy Streetwalker being an amazing bonus track anyways. We still have it either way!
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HIStoric said:
That's an excellent way to describe Bad - a greatest hits collection. It was one of the last MJ albums I bought because so many of the songs were actually on The Essential Michael Jackson!
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Those songs would made the album less 'safe' and more edgy particularly Cheater and Streetwalker. Abortion Papers and Price Of Fame would have given it more social realism and lyrical dynamism. IJCSLY and JGF are weren't strong enough imho.
 
Psychoniff said:
Those songs would made the album less 'safe' and more edgy particularly Cheater and Streetwalker. Abortion Papers and Price Of Fame would have given it more social realism and lyrical dynamism. IJCSLY and JGF are weren't strong enough imho.
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So? At the end of the day, it's still a fantastic album and that's really all that matters.
 
Still baffled when people say Al Capone should have been on Bad.

The song has max. 8 words that are decipherable! The rest we are guessing haha
 
I personally would have loved to have seen Michael give Little Susie and Morphine the short film + single treatment. Would have been epic :D
 
Psychoniff said:
Those songs would made the album less 'safe' and more edgy particularly Cheater and Streetwalker. Abortion Papers and Price Of Fame would have given it more social realism and lyrical dynamism. IJCSLY and JGF are weren't strong enough imho.
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I liked the Bad25 demos/outtakes but I don't think any of them were strong enough to be on the album.

Cheater or Streetwalker maybe, but it's a close call and the album is already perfect as it is.
 
innuendo141 said:
Still baffled when people say Al Capone should have been on Bad.

The song has max. 8 words that are decipherable! The rest we are guessing haha
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I agree. And I am especially baffled when people say it's better than Smooth Criminal. Must be the relative novelty.
 
respect77 said:
I agree. And I am especially baffled when people say it's better than Smooth Criminal. Must be the relative novelty.
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It would have been the sequel to the Smooth Criminal. Yes, with better production it would have fit nicely like Streetwalker being the sequel to The Way You Make Me Feel.
 
Psychoniff said:
It would have been the sequel to the Smooth Criminal. Yes, with better production it would have fit nicely like Streetwalker being the sequel to The Way You Make Me Feel.
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It only would have made the album repetitive.
 
innuendo141 said:
Still baffled when people say Al Capone should have been on Bad.

The song has max. 8 words that are decipherable! The rest we are guessing haha
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But the vocal delivery on Al Capone is not too dissimilar to his vocal style on Smooth Criminal. So what's your point. It would have been a sort of sequel to Smooth Criminal.
 
respect77 said:
It only would have made the album repetitive.
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No way. That's why Mike wanted Bad to be a triple disc album seen as he have so many ideas. It would all been conceptual which only would enhanced the brilliance of that record.
 
Psychoniff said:
But the vocal delivery on Al Capone is not too dissimilar to his vocal style on Smooth Criminal. So what's your point. It would have been a sort of sequel to Smooth Criminal.
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Smooth Criminal is a fully produced completed song.

Al Capone is a demo with incomplete lyrics that are impossible to understand, and possibly some not even english (Michael had a tendency to do that).

Al Capone is incomplete early draft of Smooth Criminal. The magic of evolution. Smooth Criminal is a finished masterpiece.
 
innuendo141 said:
Smooth Criminal is a fully produced completed song.

Al Capone is a demo with incomplete lyrics that are impossible to understand, and possibly some not even english (Michael had a tendency to do that).

Al Capone is incomplete early draft of Smooth Criminal. The magic of evolution. Smooth Criminal is a finished masterpiece.
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Like I said in the post above: "with better production it would have fit nicely". What I would have liked to see from Mike was some sort of concept album, NOT a collection of hit records. It was fine with OTW and Thriller, but I think Bad could have and should have been that point where he took his newfound creative freedom and develop that concept album that folks were looking for.
 
Psychoniff said:
Like I said in the post above: "with better production it would have fit nicely". What I would have liked to see from Mike was some sort of concept album, NOT a collection of hit records. It was fine with OTW and Thriller, but I think Bad could have and should have been that point where he took his newfound creative freedom and develop that concept album that folks were looking for.
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I haven't seen the mass demonstrations for a concept album by MJ.
 
Psychoniff said:
Like I said in the post above: "with better production it would have fit nicely". What I would have liked to see from Mike was some sort of concept album, NOT a collection of hit records. It was fine with OTW and Thriller, but I think Bad could have and should have been that point where he took his newfound creative freedom and develop that concept album that folks were looking for.
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So keeping in line what you had said in the other thread you think that Michael could have, nay, SHOULD have outsold Thriller by releasing a 3 disc concept album.
 
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