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Thread: Surprisingly modern sounding MJ songs

   
  1. #31
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    Default Natalie Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Diamond Princess View Post
    Also Biggie's rap on Unbreakable (as great as it is) isn't the same as shooting a whole video, and having an entire song laced with someone else's vocals then advertising it as a "collab."
    What's the difference in that and this, although not the first posthumous duet, is probably the 1st to get major popularity. It also has a music video




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    Default Re: Natalie Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    What's the difference in that and this, although not the first posthumous duet, is probably the 1st to get major popularity. It also has a music video



    Natalie is Nat's own daughter.
    Also, I thought we were discussing MJ posthumous duets and not those of other artist.

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    Default Re: Surprisingly modern sounding MJ songs

    ^^When this came out, I thought it would be awful, but it turned out to be one of the best performances I've ever seen. Natalie really found her true voice as a jazz singer. Just incredibly lovely.

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  5. #34
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    Default Re: Natalie Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Diamond Princess View Post
    Natalie is Nat's own daughter.
    Also, I thought we were discussing MJ posthumous duets and not those of other artist.
    Mike is not related to Minnie Riperton. These types of collaborations have been going on for decades. What makes Mike exempt from the practice when he has done it himself.

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  7. #35
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    Default Re: Natalie Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    Mike is not related to Minnie Riperton. These types of collaborations have been going on for decades. What makes Mike exempt from the practice when he has done it himself.
    It's just not the same as what was done with LNFSG.
    We all know how much of a perfectionist MJ was, and the fact that they shot an entire video, heavily edited the song (which if I can remember was just MJ and a piano in its original form), and advertised it as a "collab" when MJ himself wasn't here to have any input on the creation or the final product just doesn't sit right with me.
    I'd even be okay with it if he had recorded a duet with someone and it was released posthumously because then at least it would be a legit duet/collab.

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    Default collabs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Diamond Princess View Post
    It's just not the same as what was done with LNFSG.
    We all know how much of a perfectionist MJ was, and the fact that they shot an entire video, heavily edited the song (which if I can remember was just MJ and a piano in its original form), and advertised it as a "collab" when MJ himself wasn't here to have any input on the creation or the final product just doesn't sit right with me.
    I'd even be okay with it if he had recorded a duet with someone and it was released posthumously because then at least it would be a legit duet/collab.
    Minnie, John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, and none of the other acts had any input into whatever was released on them after they died, so there's still no difference. So basically what you're saying is "do as I say, not as I do". If Mike had no problem with singing on Minnie's song and using vocals from Biggie Smalls, Rod Serling, Martin Luther King, etc. when they had no input in its use, then saying that it shouldn't be done with Mike's songs doesn't make sense to me. In many cases, remixes that are released while an act is alive have no input from them, unless they record exclusive vocals for the remix (ig. Bell Biv DeVoe, Mariah Carey) or remix it themselves (ig. Al B. Sure!, Prince, DJ Jazzy Jeff). That's why professional remixers or DJs are hired, to put their sound on the songs. Some acts don't even have a say in approving a remix or choosing the people doing the remix, the label does. In some cases background singers, guest musicians, or rappers are added to remixes that had nothing to do with the original song. Janet Jackson has a song called What'll I Do and there's a remix with the Red Hot Chili Peppers playing on it. They weren't on the album mix.

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  10. #37
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    Default Re: Surprisingly modern sounding MJ songs

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    Minnie, John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, and none of the other acts had any input into whatever was released on them after they died, so there's still no difference. So basically what you're saying is "do as I say, not as I do". If Mike had no problem with singing on Minnie's song and using vocals from Biggie Smalls, Rod Serling, Martin Luther King, etc. when they had no input in its use, then saying that it shouldn't be done with Mike's songs doesn't make sense to me. In many cases, remixes that are released while an act is alive have no input from them, unless they record exclusive vocals for the remix (ig. Bell Biv DeVoe, Mariah Carey) or remix it themselves (ig. Al B. Sure!, Prince, DJ Jazzy Jeff). That's why professional remixers or DJs are hired, to put their sound on the songs. Some acts don't even have a say in approving a remix or choosing the people doing the remix, the label does. In some cases background singers, guest musicians, or rappers are added to remixes that had nothing to do with the original song. Janet Jackson has a song called What'll I Do and there's a remix with the Red Hot Chili Peppers playing on it. They weren't on the album mix.
    The Minnie Riperton song still isn't the same.
    It doesn't have a music video and it didn't have half the marketing push that LNFSG had.
    With the LNFSG "duet" it was pushed as the main attraction of Xscape.
    Also Rod Serling wasn't dueting with MJ thoughout the entire song on Threatened he was only used for the rap, Biggie wasn't dueting with MJ thoughout Unbreakable he was only featured for his rap, and a Martin Luther King sound bite ( that if I can recall is from HIStory) is hardly a collab.

    Additionally Biggie had actually knowingly recorded his rap for This Time Around while he was alive, so he had rapport with MJ and we actually know that he wouldn't have had a problem with being on an MJ song.

    Lastly, there have been lawsuits when songs so much as have similar instrumental sounds.
    When it comes to that kind of stuff it really all depends on whether or not someone wants/cares to sue, and if there are legit legal grounds to do so.

    TBH we could discuss/debate about this all day, but my feelings on it won't change. :/

  11. #38
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Diamond Princess View Post
    It doesn't have a music video and it didn't have half the marketing push that LNFSG had.
    With the LNFSG "duet" it was pushed as the main attraction of Xscape.
    Does not matter if Minnie's song was promoted, how much of Mike's vocals was used, or it has a music video or not. The process behind the songs is still the same. They took Minnie's vocals, recorded new music, and had guest singers who were not originally involved. What you're saying is like because a vegan restaurant is not promoted like McDonald's with TV commercials, then it's not food like McDonald's. A music video is a commercial for a record. Just because something is not advertised or is more popular does not make it a different thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Diamond Princess View Post
    Additionally Biggie had actually knowingly recorded his rap for This Time Around while he was alive, so he had rapport with MJ and we actually know that he wouldn't have had a problem with being on an MJ song.
    Just becuase they did a song together does not necessarily mean that Biggie would automatically apporove. Mariah Carey & Nicki Minaj made a song and music video together, but it has been said that they didn't get along when they hosted American Idol. Anyway, going by what you're saying, *NSYNC performed with The Jacksons in 2001, Mike appeared with the group on MTV, and *NSYNC was also on What More Can I Give, so Mike would have no problem with Justin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Diamond Princess View Post
    but my feelings on it won't change.
    I'm not trying you change your mind, but it's hypocritical to say that Mike should be exempt, when it's done for other acts and Mike has participated in doing it. Mike was an employee of a record company just like all the rest of the acts. Thinking he should get special treatment is unrealistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Diamond Princess View Post
    Also Rod Serling wasn't dueting with MJ thoughout the entire song on Threatened he was only used for the rap
    How much or how little is irrelevant, it's still the same thing. Rod had no approval or input. If a person steals a penny or $20,000, it is still stealing. What about these then?





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  13. #39
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    Default Re: Surprisingly modern sounding MJ songs

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    Does not matter if Minnie's song was promoted, how much of Mike's vocals was used, or it has a music video or not. The process behind the songs is still the same. They took Minnie's vocals, recorded new music, and had guest singers who were not originally involved. What you're saying is like because a vegan restaurant is not promoted like McDonald's with TV commercials, then it's not food like McDonald's. A music video is a commercial for a record. Just because something is not advertised or is more popular does not make it a different thing.
    You can't compare the music industry to the fast food industry because whether you know it or not they are very different.
    And once again, LNFSG wasn't advertised as MJ featuring a guest singer, it was advertised as a legit collab.
    If it were advertised as MJ featuring Justin Timberlake then I would have a lot less problem with it.

    Just becuase they did a song together does not necessarily mean that Biggie would automatically apporove. Mariah Carey & Nicki Minaj made a song and music video together, but it has been said that they didn't get along when they hosted American Idol. Anyway, going by what you're saying, *NSYNC performed with The Jacksons in 2001, Mike appeared with the group on MTV, and *NSYNC was also on What More Can I Give, so Mike would have no problem with Justin.
    AFAIK Biggie and MJ never had a falling out whereas Nicki Minaj and Mariah obviously held contempt for one another, and NSYNC and Justin Timberlake are not one and the same.


    [FONT=comic sans ms]I'm not trying you change your mind, but it's hypocritical to say that Mike should be exempt, when it's done for other acts and Mike has participated in doing it. Mike was an employee of a record company just like all the rest of the acts. Thinking he should get special treatment is unrealistic.[/FONT
    I'm not requesting special treatment.
    Michael was/is known for being a perfectionist, he liked to work on or at least have input on every aspect of a project, so I just don't like the idea of something which wasn't a true collab in any way being advertised as such.


    How much or how little is irrelevant, it's still the same thing. Rod had no approval or input. If a person steals a penny or $20,000, it is still stealing. What about these then?





    [/QUOTE]

    There are cases where it does matter just how much is stolen.
    One can claim the rights to the lyrics of a song, but very rarely is a single word or a few lines copyrighted, so the comparison you made to money doesn't work.

    Rod Serling's words in threatened were also not originally part of a song (that I know of) they were just him speaking on the Twilight Zone, so how could MJ "steal" someones words (not a script for the Twilight zone, or a whole speech), which were public domain?
    Anyone could have used those words while Serling was still alive and I doubt there would've been anything he could've done about it other then complain about unoriginality.

    If it is indeed possible to copyright speech (not a whole speech, but just a few lines of human language) then it's a law that I myself haven't heard of.

    Overall, I don't think everybody and their mama should just be able to "collab" with MJ, nor do I think it should be the norm.
    Last edited by Pink Diamond Princess; 23-07-2016 at 09:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Surprisingly modern sounding MJ songs

    To get the thread semi-back on track I think this song sounds like could've been released yesterday.

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    Default sampling

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Diamond Princess View Post
    Rod Serling's words in threatened were also not originally part of a song (that I know of) they were just him speaking on the Twilight zone, so how could MJ "steal" someone words (not a script for the Twilight zone, or a whole speech), which were public domain? Anyone could have used those words while Serling was still alive and I doubt there would've been anything he could've done about it other then complain about unoriginality.

    If it is indeed possible to copyright speech (not a whole speech, but just a few lines of human language) then it's a law that I myself haven't heard of.

    Overall, I don't think everybody and their mama should just be able to "collab" with MJ, nor do I think it should be the norm.
    I didn't say Mike stole. He obviously got permission to use the voice. It says in the credits "Audio snippets of Rod Serling courtesy of CBS Broadcasting". If it was public domain, no such credit is needed. But Rod himself did not participate in the song, nor gave approval himself. I'm saying it's no different than putting Justin Timberlake on a recording with Mike. Rod was not alive when Threatened was made, but he was put in it.

    Copying words and using someone's actual voice are two different things. That's why people don't have to get permission to remake a song, but have to clear samples, which is using a previous recording. When Mike or anyone else uses Martin Luther King's voice, they have to get permission and credit it on the album. Mike got sued for using a recording of an orchestra on Will You Be There without permission or crediting them. If Mike hired an orchestra himself and recorded it, then that is different than the sampling of a classical record without clearing it. Legally, Weird Al does not have to get permission to do parodies as long as he credits the original writers. But he does so out of courtesy.
    Technically he's doing a remake with different lyrics, because he and his band usually reproduces the music themselves, not using a sample or an instrumental version of the original song.

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  18. #42
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    Default Re: Surprisingly modern sounding MJ songs

    ^^^^
    Even then it's not the same as LNFSG.
    MJ may have credited Rod Serling because of the sound bites, but he didn't push it as some big collab because Serling wasn't there to do it with him.
    Hadn't LNFSG been pushed as a collab and instead been market as Michael Jackson featuring Justin Timberlake then I wouldn't have had as much of a problem with it as I do now.

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    Default Re: Surprisingly modern sounding MJ songs


    This is IMO one of MJ's best aged songs.

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    Default Re: Surprisingly modern sounding MJ songs

    I think Princess is in denial lol. IT'S THE SAME DAMN THING

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  22. #45
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    Default Re: Surprisingly modern sounding MJ songs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Ced View Post
    I think Princess is in denial lol. IT'S THE SAME DAMN THING
    Nah, you just don't see it from my POV, which is that it's not "THE SAME DAMN THING."
    And even if you think it's the same thing that's been done in the past that doesn't mean that I nor anyone else has to be okay with posthumous duets with Michael.

    I'm sure you'll all see it when they have MJ's hologram perform with Justin Bieber or something though. :/
    Last edited by Pink Diamond Princess; 24-07-2016 at 12:37 AM.

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