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Thread: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

   
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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    For those of us who believe in prayer:

    Psalm 27

    Of David.

    1 The Lord is my light and my salvation—
    whom shall I fear?
    The Lord is the stronghold of my life—
    of whom shall I be afraid?

    2 When the wicked advance against me
    to devour[a] me,
    it is my enemies and my foes
    who will stumble and fall.
    3 Though an army besiege me,
    my heart will not fear;
    though war break out against me,
    even then I will be confident.

    4 One thing I ask from the Lord,
    this only do I seek:
    that I may dwell in the house of the Lord
    all the days of my life,
    to gaze on the beauty of the Lord
    and to seek him in his temple.
    5 For in the day of trouble
    he will keep me safe in his dwelling;
    he will hide me in the shelter of his sacred tent
    and set me high upon a rock.

    6 Then my head will be exalted
    above the enemies who surround me;
    at his sacred tent I will sacrifice with shouts of joy;
    I will sing and make music to the Lord.

    7 Hear my voice when I call, Lord;
    be merciful to me and answer me.
    8 My heart says of you, “Seek his face!”
    Your face, Lord, I will seek.
    9 Do not hide your face from me,
    do not turn your servant away in anger;
    you have been my helper.
    Do not reject me or forsake me,
    God my Savior.
    10 Though my father and mother forsake me,
    the Lord will receive me.
    11 Teach me your way, Lord;
    lead me in a straight path
    because of my oppressors.
    12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes,
    for false witnesses rise up against me,
    spouting malicious accusations.

    13 I remain confident of this:
    I will see the goodness of the Lord
    in the land of the living.
    14 Wait for the Lord;
    be strong and take heart
    and wait for the Lord.

    Mike's PYT

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    Quote Originally Posted by Staffordshire Bullterrier View Post
    Holy shit. And these lies are being said in the new "doc" as well? I know there are tons of disgusting things claimed in the "doc", but a lot actually are based on that book by Victor? Unbelievable, and people just eat it up. This needs to be out there!
    Yes, unfortunately. And what's more ironic, Victor was involved in some MJ related documentaries and he presents himself as investigative journalist. I think he might be also in this one, but I'm not sure, don't trust me on that.

    We need to spread this around as much as we can.

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"


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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    I disagree with this idea of a 'loving relationship' being anything like what really happens with pedophilia. That benign depiction is all part of the con. It gives cover to someone trying to explain why he/she 'didn't know until later," or didn't realize it at the time, etc. It also is totally aligned with the NAMBLA/Gutierrez narrative. When a child is violated sexually by an adult--and we know this happens, sadly--it is horrible, traumatic, a deep betrayal of trust--because it is usually a relative or a neighbor or friend that has that kind of access to a child, unless the child is just abducted/kidnapped. This is not a 'loving relationship" and the child knows it!! You have to read about experts on child abuse and what they say it does to victims. I think it's a fantasy that the child can somehow be brought to a state where he/she does not realize what is happening is wrong, painful, and not normal adult behavior. One expert on this subject wrote a book "True and False Accusations of Child Sex Abuse" by Richard Gardner, the doctor who interviewed Jordan Chandler. He talks about how children respond to this sexual violation and it is things like nightmares, depression, anxiety, not wanting to go to school. etc. This is not a pleasurable experience. It's the NAMBLA agenda that is describing it that way.

    I think the Estate should hire Oliver Stone to direct a documentary on how MJ was smeared by corrupt individuals, a corrupt media, and a corrupt legal system. It is true, as someone posted, the media will not want this story to come out, because it will expose their "laziness and bias," as well as their corruption. Oliver Stone has done a lot of investigative type movies--about real life events, such as his movies about Nixon, JFK, Wall St. I think he is the best for the job.

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    Quote Originally Posted by terrell View Post
    For those of us who believe in prayer:

    Psalm 27

    Of David.

    1 The Lord is my light and my salvation—
    whom shall I fear?
    The Lord is the stronghold of my life—
    of whom shall I be afraid?

    2 When the wicked advance against me
    to devour[a] me,
    it is my enemies and my foes
    who will stumble and fall.
    3 Though an army besiege me,
    my heart will not fear;
    though war break out against me,
    even then I will be confident.

    4 One thing I ask from the Lord,
    this only do I seek:
    that I may dwell in the house of the Lord
    all the days of my life,
    to gaze on the beauty of the Lord
    and to seek him in his temple.
    5 For in the day of trouble
    he will keep me safe in his dwelling;
    he will hide me in the shelter of his sacred tent
    and set me high upon a rock.

    6 Then my head will be exalted
    above the enemies who surround me;
    at his sacred tent I will sacrifice with shouts of joy;
    I will sing and make music to the Lord.

    7 Hear my voice when I call, Lord;
    be merciful to me and answer me.
    8 My heart says of you, “Seek his face!”
    Your face, Lord, I will seek.
    9 Do not hide your face from me,
    do not turn your servant away in anger;
    you have been my helper.
    Do not reject me or forsake me,
    God my Savior.
    10 Though my father and mother forsake me,
    the Lord will receive me.
    11 Teach me your way, Lord;
    lead me in a straight path
    because of my oppressors.
    12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes,
    for false witnesses rise up against me,
    spouting malicious accusations.

    13 I remain confident of this:
    I will see the goodness of the Lord
    in the land of the living.
    14 Wait for the Lord;
    be strong and take heart
    and wait for the Lord.
    Thank you for this.

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    Quote Originally Posted by MJTruth View Post
    I think JC08 was referring to the fact that many (if not most people) consider that "not guity" is not the same as "innocent", especially when it comes to MJ. I agree with you though "innocent until proven guilty" must mean that if you're acquitted then you are innocent in the eyes of the law. Public perception is different.

    Trolls will use that all the time - "Not guilty" is not the same as "innocent".

    I have stated your point to them very clearly so many times, but they don't agree. Of course, they're idiots.
    Defendants in court are called 'defendants' BECAUSE they are defending their innocence.

    Otherwise we might as well use the old English method of trying witches - dunk them underwater, and if they drown they are innocent, but if they live they are guilty (and they were burned).
    'We may not change the world in one day but we still can change some things today, in our small way.'[/SIZE][/SIZE]

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    people are called "not guilty" even when they are innocent. That is the only term we use. That is why I talk about the trial, who lied, who changed stories, etc on MJ and the testimony. That proved HIS INNOCENCE. MJ did not get a not guilty due to evidence being illegal search, mistake in evidence tampering, etc. Yeah, those people say that until they are in this kind of mess.
    Mike's PYT

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/28/e...ary/index.html

    CNN saying he paid 24 million to settle in 2004. Am, no?

    No force of nature can break your will to self motivate.

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZXK0guINF8

    Start at 34:15, it's short, but right on!

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    Ok, y'all betta get ready to read cause it's been a while since I've been in this thread and I got plenty to say, perhaps too much. But here it goes anyhow.

    Quote Originally Posted by innuendo141
    CNN saying he paid 24 million to settle in 2004. Am, no?
    ^^^It's only CNN, Nigel. You can't expect them to be accurate. 2004/1994, it's all the same to them. What difference does it make, right? Plus the exact sum, the whys......they don't matter, just as long as they get to paint him as a monster and his fans as delusional, cult-like staunch defenders.

    But to be fair to them, in this particular article they did try to show both sides of the story. Although they could have chosen much better tweets from fans. I still remember good ole' Jeffrey Toobin being sooooo sure of himself back on June 13th 2005 that Michael would be found guilty of at least one count. They sure had to eat some crow that day, didn't they? Maybe they need reminding what it tastes like.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamba View Post
    I disagree with this idea of a 'loving relationship' being anything like what really happens with pedophilia. That benign depiction is all part of the con. It gives cover to someone trying to explain why he/she 'didn't know until later," or didn't realize it at the time, etc. It also is totally aligned with the NAMBLA/Gutierrez narrative. When a child is violated sexually by an adult--and we know this happens, sadly--it is horrible, traumatic, a deep betrayal of trust--because it is usually a relative or a neighbor or friend that has that kind of access to a child, unless the child is just abducted/kidnapped. This is not a 'loving relationship" and the child knows it!! You have to read about experts on child abuse and what they say it does to victims. I think it's a fantasy that the child can somehow be brought to a state where he/she does not realize what is happening is wrong, painful, and not normal adult behavior. One expert on this subject wrote a book "True and False Accusations of Child Sex Abuse" by Richard Gardner, the doctor who interviewed Jordan Chandler. He talks about how children respond to this sexual violation and it is things like nightmares, depression, anxiety, not wanting to go to school. etc. This is not a pleasurable experience. It's the NAMBLA agenda that is describing it that way.

    Jamba, I agree with many of the points you make, especially the most disturbing inference to be made from the director’s words and perspective. He truly sounds like a NAMBLA spokesperson, doesn’t he? And by the way of that horrible interview with the LA Times. Is anyone actually surprised they would stoop so low? I mean really, that 'newspaper' has been hating Michael's royal self since before he was born basically. Couldn't expect anything else from them really.

    However, I am sad to hear that USA Today allowed themselves to be used like this. If I remember correctly, they were one of the few publications which back in 1994 had the courage to admit that Jordan Chandler's description did NOT match the photographs taken of Michael during that whole ordeal. It's sad to see them now give a platform to this propagator of lies.

    It's all quite tragic because they still don't seem to get it, after all these decades, after all these trials - people all over the world, including in America, still love Michael Jackson, people still believe in his innocence, people still embrace his message. They've been sold to the erroneous idea that portraying him as a monster brings in the clicks, the ratings, the sells of their more or less horrid magazines and silly papers, but the reality is the exact opposite - most people, normal, level headed, decent people would much rather tune into the story of the frail, innocent, eccentric man who thrilled the world with his songs and moves than their concocted version of the monster that never was, except only in their dirty minds. And then they have the audacity to wonder why people mistrust them, call them fake news and propaganda tools.


    Quote Originally Posted by jamba
    I think the Estate should hire Oliver Stone to direct a documentary on how MJ was smeared by corrupt individuals, a corrupt media, and a corrupt legal system. It is true, as someone posted, the media will not want this story to come out, because it will expose their "laziness and bias," as well as their corruption. Oliver Stone has done a lot of investigative type movies--about real life events, such as his movies about Nixon, JFK, Wall St. I think he is the best for the job.
    The one thing I cannot agree with is the assertion of the ‘corrupt legal system’, which I find to be a misplaced generalization. After all, the American legal system, beyond all its limits and failures, by most and where it mattered, it has done right by Michael – two grand juries and no indictment, a not guilty verdict on 14 counts and a decade long FBI investigation which further proved Michael’s innocence, the cases of these latest scammers thrown out of court, hence their need for these despicable performances now.

    Do not mistake Sneddon’s prosecutorial misconduct, most probably motivated by racism and need for notoriety, the grifter methods of more than questionable characters that went on to accuse Michael or the collusion of the tabloid media, which in Michael’s case included almost all of the MSM as well, please do not mistake any and all of those for the American legal system. Although there are innocent men who have suffered uselessly, at times for decades, we cannot truly pin point any major issue in which the courts failed to do Michael justice. We must hope and pray it will stay the same.


    Same as others, I find the appearance of certain people and certain arguments in this thread slightly worrying, if not disturbing. In today’s age of artificial outrage and contrived cases the presumption of innocence and the right to a fair trial seem to have gone out of the proverbial window. In days of old, they used to be considered basic legal principles and in criminal trials, the burden of proof used to be on the prosecution. Nowadays, it falls on the defendants to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that they are innocent. Such a perspective completely skews the entire process in favor of outlandish, baseless accusations.



    Terrell, thanks so much for posting Psalm 27. It really is very special to me, more than you can imagine. It truly feels like we’re back in 2004/2005, doesn’t it? Praying and fasting yet again, hoping that the world will see, same as we, that Michael is so far from the monster they portray him to be. And although there’s no thread goin’ “Is he there yet?”, we still root and fight for him, because we know that truth is on his side and no matter how long it’s gonna take, now, same as then, his good name will be vindicated.

    And now, same as then, a most appropriate psalm is also Psalm 35………

    Psalm 35
    Of David.

    1 Contend, Lord, with those who contend with me;
    fight against those who fight against me.
    2 Take up shield and armor;
    arise and come to my aid.
    3 Brandish spear and javelin[a]
    against those who pursue me.
    Say to me,
    “I am your salvation.”

    4 May those who seek my life
    be disgraced and put to shame;
    may those who plot my ruin
    be turned back in dismay.
    5 May they be like chaff before the wind,
    with the angel of the Lord driving them away;
    6 may their path be dark and slippery,
    with the angel of the Lord pursuing them.

    7 Since they hid their net for me without cause
    and without cause dug a pit for me,
    8 may ruin overtake them by surprise—
    may the net they hid entangle them,
    may they fall into the pit, to their ruin.
    9 Then my soul will rejoice in the Lord
    and delight in his salvation.
    10 My whole being will exclaim,
    “Who is like you, Lord?
    You rescue the poor from those too strong for them,
    the poor and needy from those who rob them.”

    11 Ruthless witnesses come forward;
    they question me on things I know nothing about.
    12 They repay me evil for good
    and leave me like one bereaved.
    13 Yet when they were ill, I put on sackcloth
    and humbled myself with fasting.
    When my prayers returned to me unanswered,
    14 I went about mourning
    as though for my friend or brother.
    I bowed my head in grief
    as though weeping for my mother.
    15 But when I stumbled, they gathered in glee;
    assailants gathered against me without my knowledge.
    They slandered me without ceasing.
    16 Like the ungodly they maliciously mocked;[b]
    they gnashed their teeth at me.
    17 How long, Lord, will you look on?
    Rescue me from their ravages,
    my precious life from these lions.

    18 I will give you thanks in the great assembly;
    among the throngs I will praise you.
    19 Do not let those gloat over me
    who are my enemies without cause;
    do not let those who hate me without reason
    maliciously wink the eye.
    20 They do not speak peaceably,
    but devise false accusations
    against those who live quietly in the land.
    21 They sneer at me and say, “Aha! Aha!
    With our own eyes we have seen it.”
    22 Lord, you have seen this; do not be silent.
    Do not be far from me, Lord.

    23 Awake, and rise to my defense!
    Contend for me, my God and Lord.
    24 Vindicate me in your righteousness, Lord my God;
    do not let them gloat over me.
    25 Do not let them think, “Aha, just what we wanted!”
    or say, “We have swallowed him up.”

    26 May all who gloat over my distress
    be put to shame and confusion;
    may all who exalt themselves over me
    be clothed with shame and disgrace.
    27 May those who delight in my vindication
    shout for joy and gladness;
    may they always say, “The Lord be exalted,
    who delights in the well-being of his servant.”

    28 My tongue will proclaim your righteousness,
    your praises all day long.


    I was very happy to see the latest statements from the Estate and the family. I trust they will do all they can to defend Michael. I still remember how fans were doubting Michael’s change of lawyer from Mark Geragos to the now legendary Thomas Mesereau. We all know how baseless those worries were.

    I suggest we do the same now and have faith that there are plenty of good people out there who will once again fight the good fight on Michael’s behalf. I’m sure plenty of them will be faces known to us all and hopefully even some new ones will join them. All we can do is encourage them, pray for them and try to make others see the righteousness of our cause – the defense of a beautiful soul of a man, who tried to bring solace and light into the world and in return was faced with so much of its darkness.

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    I think the way the estate is handling this is shambolic. All they did was put out some statement but didn't do anything else (that we know of) it's like they don't really care about MJ and just want to release compilation albums every 2-3 years. No wonder Michael felt isolated and couldn't trust anyone.

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    Terrell
    , thanks so much for posting Psalm 27. It really is very special to me, more than you can imagine. It truly feels like we’re back in 2004/2005, doesn’t it? Praying and fasting yet again, hoping that the world will see, same as we, that Michael is so far from the monster they portray him to be. And although there’s no thread goin’ “
    Is he there yet?
    ”, we still root and fight for him, because we know that truth is on his side and no matter how long it’s gonna take, now, same as then, his good name will be vindicated.


    You are welcome. I am taking this to a higher power who can take care of all of MJ's enemies. And thank you for Psalms 35.
    Mike's PYT

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thriller_MJ View Post
    I think the way the estate is handling this is shambolic. All they did was put out some statement but didn't do anything else (that we know of) it's like they don't really care about MJ and just want to release compilation albums every 2-3 years. No wonder Michael felt isolated and couldn't trust anyone.
    Give it time. It is too early to judge them. Everything is timing. We will see.
    Mike's PYT

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    Quote Originally Posted by innuendo141 View Post
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/28/e...ary/index.html

    CNN saying he paid 24 million to settle in 2004. Am, no?
    I spoke too soon. At least it not being talked about on air and all the other headlines.
    Last edited by terrell; 29-01-2019 at 01:50 AM.
    Mike's PYT

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    Default Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

    For a little lighting up...
    Michael Trapson will take care of them.


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