Lightbringer
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OK folks, I took 4 hours of my time to make a transcript of what was said on 60 minutes australia interview with Adrian McManus - SINCE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THEM CLICKS AND WATCH THE VIDEO!
There may be some mispelling since I rushed it:
I am so angry at that idiot that I dont find words to describe it. She has seen nothing concrete, if anything at all and they are putting on a show based on her lies and ASSUMPTIONS. DESPICABLE! I just want to cry, these horrible persons just ruining Michael, I feel worse than in 2005 even :-(
I need to rest now, my head is spinning from writing the transcript.....
----
Host: She know the life of the star too well, after cleaning up for him, for 4 years.
And tonight for the first time, tells us what the maid saw:
Adrian: I think he was starting to realize maybe I was catching on, because I got a call from him, he called me on mothers day, it was a sunday morning at my home. He said I want to ask you something and I said yeah OK. I kid you not, he asked me about 8 times, what do you kow? Mr.Jackson I do not know what you want me to tell you. What do you know Adrian?
Host, that was the question, what do you know Adrian?
Adrian What do you know? I was starting to get really really frightened. I was scared to hell, I was terrified of him.
Host: Adrian was once a trusted member of Michael Jacksons inner circle. Now she is his accuser. From 1990 to 1994, she was his housemaid, with intimitate access to the inner sanctum of the most famous person on earth.
Host: Its often said that he could be a very generous man when he wanted to be, did you find that? There was some different sides to him, there was a kind side, and there was a dark side, and I feel that he was manipulator and I feel that anybody that come in contact with him, he destroyed them! I´ve been destroyed!
Host: And these accusations are not being made by Adrian alone. New explosive allegations by two men, who were once very close and very loyal to the singer, claims they were abused as children, and there familys exploited in the worst possible way. So now why, whats driving these claims. Was Michael Jackson really a harmless troubled genious, or a cold calculating predator?
Host: Adrian is nervous, during the drive through Santa Ines valley to her old place of work. She has not been back to Michael Jacksons neverland ranch in 20 years.
Host. Just coming up this road gives you anxiety?
Adrian: Its kind of like facing your nightmare, you know.
Host: The singers fans still flock here to get a glimpse of their idols refugee. But for Adrian, its far from a happy place. Up for sale the 67 million dollar, neverland remains empty and off limits to visitors. A place frozen in times from when Michael Jackson ruled the world. From child prodigy to moonwalking megastar. There was no artist like him before, or since.
Host: When you started working at neverland, what was it like?
A: There were rules, alot of rules you had to follow! You dont stare at him, you dont ask him for an autograph, you do what he tells you to do, you dont question him.
Host. Within 3 months of becoming a member of the team, she begun cleaning Michael Jacksons bedroom.
Host: Michael Jackson must have trusted you?
A: Yeah, he told me I was excellent. I did tell him, maybe I am not the right person for you. And he said, "no Adrian your excellent, loyalty means alot to me, you could be with me forever.
The first time I cleaned his beedroom, I did not even know where to start.
Host: Was he the kind of rockstar that would just drop everything behind him and let you pick up?
A: Yeah, it was like that.
Home videos from the time, captured the singer relaxing at neverland. It was a place to live out his fantasies. And he shared the fun with the childrend he surrounded himself with.
What was the first thing for you, what made you first suspect that Michael Jackson had an unhealthy interest in children?
A: I noticed that were a lot of little boys, that all would hang around there, you would not see little girls, and I eeh knew the little boys were there. When they would arrive, they would put their clothes in a suitcase in his room. I started realizing, thinking, wondering, when was taking baths with them or sleeping in his bed.
Host: With sleepings its sleeping?
A: Yeah.
Host: You are talking about about the WORST KIND OF SLEEPING WITH CHILDREN?
A: Yeah, I know the truth, I was there. And I when I would go in the next day, there little boys underwear, either on the floor with Michaels or they were in the jacuzzi.
Host: So you were suspicious as soon as you saw that?
A: Yeah, I got suspicious and then I would also find underwear in his bed. I find undwerwear that were mens briefs in the walking closet, and they were, I dont like saying this, they were like cringy hard with yellow stains all over them. I did not know who they belonged too, because the little boys started wearing MIchaels briefs. And they would live their underwear in his drawer.
Host: The more adrian saw, the more convinced she was a predator. A feeling she says were shared by other staff at neverland. There was alot of vaseline at neverland, sometimes it was found in the golf cart, when Michael Jackson would take off with the boys.
Host: Vaseline?
A: Yeah, vaseline. And there was alot of vaseline in Michaels bedroom. It was actually all over the ranch.
Host: Is there possible an innocent explanation to that?
A: I dont think so.
Host: What disturbed Adrian the most was the way the popstar would be physical with the kids who were intrusted to his care.
A: They were sitting on his lap, the kids, I just saw alot of maybe fondling, him rubbing his his hands in the kids hair. Eeeh, kissing them.
Host: When you say fondling?
A. Hugging, kind of patting them...
Host: Patting them were?
A: Kind of by their rear end. I dont think it was approriate because it was not his children you know. I just did not think it was right.
Host: Did you talk to anyone about it?
A: You know, I signed up confidentilality agremeents, and I was already conditioned and programmed, you dont question it. We were told, stay away from the family. You are just maid doing your job.
Host: Would you think 14 years later this would all be repeated?
Thomas Mesereau: I would never have imagined such a thing would happen. I just still have trouble comprehending it.
Host: The lawyer Tom Mesereau means the latest allegations are claims of oppurtunists, out to make a buck.
Thomas Mesereau: I cant get over it. I just dont put any credibility to it to any of this, I just dont.
Clip from 2005:
Thomas Mesereau: Justice was done, the man is innocent, he always was."
Host: in 2005, he helped clear Jackson of child molestation charges. And defends the singer to this day.
Thomas Mesereau: I am 100% convinced, Michael never abused a child, never harmed a child, certainly never molested a child, I think this is hogwash.
Host: Are you on any sort of retainer from the Jackson estate?
Thomas Mesereau: No I am not a retainer at all (looks disgusted by the question)
Host: So no one is paying you money to say nice things about Michael Jackson?
Thomas Mesereau: No, I will always say he was a nice person, he was, he was one of the nices people I ever met.
Host: But you of all people know the smoke and fire argument? Is there any fire?
Thomas Mesereau: There no fire here whatsoever.
He was enourmous, it shouldnt have been king of pop, it should have been god of pop, emperor of pop. Charisma is not even word he had on people, I was caught up, everthing around him was a fantasy.
Host. Jamie Would is an old school entertainment reporter, who followed Michael Jacksons career from the start. She regarded Jackson as the ultimate creating genious. But also saw a dark side, I could not help but observe, what a spoiled king of pop he was. How he used his fame and power, in very loving and very childish, and mean ways.
Host: Jamie remembers at the height of Jacksons fame, it was easy for starstruck families and their kids to be drawn into the singers magical world.
Host: Surrounding himself with children, did not you find that unusual?
J: We did not find that unusual, he tried to be the piper, when I was around him, there was groups, some in costume, some just regular kids, following him. And it just seemed like a comfort for him, his explanation was he did not have a childhood. Yes, did it seems strange, did it seem eccentric, yes. But that eccentrity let get away with much, because its Michael.
Host: In the 1990s busloads of children would be invited to neverland to enjoy the themepark and the zoo. But Jacksons maid Adrian, says there was always a lucky few who seemed to receive special attention. Young boys like child actor M.Culkin. Who she says she saw being toucher innapropriately by the singer.
Host: You are on record, you are on public record, court record talking about M.Culkin. Do you stand by that story?
A: I stand by what I said in n my deposition, yeah. I think its best to you just leave it at that.
Host: Because M.Culkin is saying its prepostrous, doesnt he?
A: Yeah:
Host: He denies it to this day.
A: He does
Host: But you say it did happen?
A: I say, I saw what I saw.
Host: M.Culkin has always supported Michael Jackson, and denies the singer ever molested him. But back in 1993 another of Jacksons young male friends turned against him. 13 year old Jordan Chandler accused Jackson of sexually abusing him during sleepovers at neverland,
Host: Did you ever see Michael Jackson molest Jordan Chandler?
A: I saw some stuff that I did not think was approriate between Mr.Jackson and Jordy.
Host: What sort of things did you see with Jordan Chandler?
A: Michael kissing on him, Michaels hands very close Jordans crouch. It was terrible to see.
Host: Police launched an investigation into the abuse allegations an Jordan Chandlers family accouned they were preparing a civil case, but despite her strong suspiciouns to the contrary, in a sworn deposition said she had never seen Jacksn molester children.
A: I was scared to say anything bad about Mr. Jackson. And then uuuh, after that after I did the deposition. Probably 30 days after, Michael called my at my home.
Host: She claims Michael demanded to know what his private maid had told investigators about his behaviour. Adrian found herself in a hard position.
A: I did not think I was supposed to do that, I was worried about that, but then I thought you better do it, so I did it. And then one day in the afternoon, he came up to me and said Adrian, this is for you, he handed me a little index card, that was like stapleds on the side, and it said, thanks for everything!
A: I opened the envelope and it was 300$. I covered for him he paid me 300$.
Host: He was buying your silence for 300$
A: Yeah.
---
Michael Jackson fired back his accusers, in a live televised announcement from neverland.
Michael Jackson: "There has been many disgusting statements recently concerning allegations of improper conduct on my part. These statements are totally false, dont treat me like a criminal, because I am innocent."
A: I remember that, I was working there the day that video was shoot.
Host: It was 1993. "Dont treat me like a criminal, because I am innocent" Does that bring back strong memories?
A: It takes me back to that day, it makes me mad that I had to be involved in something like that. Why me?
Host: So you dont believe that statement from Michael Jackson one tiny bit?N
A: No.
Host: Jackson was never charged with molesting Jordan Chandler, but the young boy and his family received a 20$ dollar settlement from the singer. It led to intense critisism that Jackson was buying the silence of his accuser of his victims.
CLIP from Diane Saywer interview:
Diane: Did you ever sexually fondle, have sexual contact with this child or any other child?
Michael: No, never, I could never harm a child or anyone. Its not in my heart, its not who I am, I am not even interested in that.
Host: After Jackson paid millions to settle the case with Jordan Chandler, things changed for the worst for the workers at neverland. Adrian claims she and other staff were victimized by Michael Jacksons security guards, because they knew too much.
A: I was threatened, his bodyguards, told me that if ever came up on TV they could hire someone and take me out. Slice my neck and they would never find me body.
Host: And you believed him?
A: Yeah, I did. I lived in fear for many many years.
Host: Adrian lived with the fear, and Michae Jackson lived with the rumours. But in 2003 he made a monumental mistake. By inviting Martin Bashir, to show his life at neverland. The documentary living with Michael Jackson. Jackson gave an insight of the madness that engulfed the singers every move. Michael Jackson hope it would turn his reputation around. Instead it destroyed him.
Thomas Mesereau: I think the Martin Bashir documentary was a disaster for Michael Jackson. I think he never have trusted Martin Bashir to do an objective, professional documentary.
Host: Jacksons lawyer believes it was a turning point.
Host: Why do you think that? You think the results was slanded against him?
Thomas Mesereau: I think Mr.Bashir turned it all against him, try to created sensationalism documentary, for his own game. Thats my opinion. And it was cut together in my opinion designed to make Michael look bad.
Host: What looked particulary bad was this, twelve year old Gavin Arvizo, bad been recovering from cancer, when Jackson met and befriended him. In the documentary, Martin Bashir asked the young boy about the sleeping arraingments at neverland.
After the broadcast, Michael Jackson accused Bashir of betraing his trust, and manipulating the the interview. But the fuse was lit, and police raided neverland,
Thomas Mesereau: Aprox 70 sheriffs raided neverland, searched every building, every room, for computers for documentarie evidence, anything they could find. They were relentless in their efforts to find evidence to convict Michael Jackson.
Host: And the size of that raid, what did they find?
Thomas Mesereau: Nothing in my opinion.
Host: Michael Jackson was arrested and charged. It was a humiliating downfall. That would see Jacksons dirty laundry aired before the world.
Adrian claims she has been left penniless from working 4 years for Michael Jackson as his house maid. When she left in 1994, she and 4 other employees sued the singer for wrongful termination and lost.
Host: Do you still owe the Jackson estate money?
A: Uuuum, uuuum, I probably do but you know, Michael is dead now
Host: You must know that?
A: I know that, I cant remember, it might have been, oh god it was alot of money.
Host: You were ordered to pay legal fees initially.
A: Yeah, for breach of contract, for suing Michael Jackson
Host: Which was 1.6$ million.
A. It was probably that.
Host: Just to refresh your memory.
A. Yeah.
Host: The sheriff hasnt come knocking on the door?
A: no.
Host: And you hope they dont?
A: Well, if they do they do.
Host: In a counter-suit Jacksons estate accused her of stealing belongings of Michael Jackson from neverland to sell to the media.
A: There waa scetch that I found in thrash.
Host: You sold that scetch of elvis you found?
A. I figured that if it was in thrash it did not mean anything to me, uh, I should not have did that, but I did.
Host: And the jury in the case said that you owed Michael Jackson 32 000$ for stealing and selling that.
A: Yeah.
Host. Did you pay that?
A. No I did not.
Host: Did not pay back that either?
Adrian: No
Host the credibilty of Adrian has again been questioned, because of her changing account of what she saw at neverland. Sworn evidence she gave in 1993, that she never saw any inappropriate behvaiour by Jackson to any child.
Host: At Michael Jacksons trial, you were found to have lied under oath,
Host: So admit to lying under oath?
A: OK, uum, I am going to explain that, when Michael threatened me, I was scared of what was going to happen to me, my family my son.
Host: So admit not telling the truth?
A: Yeah because he threatened me.
Host: How do we know you are telling the truth now?
A: Well, lets put it this way, I know the truth, I did not sleep very good at night. Eeehm, I am happy that I did the right thing by tring to stand up.
HHost: So admit to lying under oath?
Thomas Mesereau: You got to look very careful at peoples motives, and you got to look very carefully at the facts, you got the most famous person in the world, one of the wealthiest people in the world, perceived as very vulnerable. Okay, and people contantly exploited him throghout his life.
Host, for Thomas Mesereau so much of what was aimed at Michael Jackson, was about cash,
Thomas Mesereau: People wanted to make so much money from Michael Jackson rising so high, and then splatter. They wanted the story to have an miserable ending for him, they hope they would see him in the court room in chains, in jail clothes, without make up, without his hair fixed, without the clothing he liked to wear, they were looking forward to the final chapter were Michael *****n gets destroyed. And it was very disheartening to observe.
Host: So you think its all ties into money?
Thomas Mesereau: Yes, money, fame and publicity.
Host: Including what he views as the latest trumped up charges of child abuse
Host: Some of these accusers have not just changed their story slightly, they have don a U-TURN, is there a possible explanation in the metoo movement, where people are now more comfortable to say "look I was abused, can we please do something about?"
Thomas Mesereau:Right now if you were accused of this worst type of thing, you would almost be found guilty before you can defend yourself. I think right now we are going a little too far. And alot of people that are not honest, were trying to capatilize on this particular movement, are raising accusations that needs to be challenged.
Host: You dont think the freedom of the metoo movement can explain why the recent 2 accusers have come forward and saying Michael Jackson abused them?
Thomas Mesereau:I think the freedom of the metoo movement has allowed false accusations as well as real accusations. And we got to be really careful to make sure whats real and whats false.
Host. By agreeing to partipicate in the Martin Bashir documentary, with the innocent assistence of his 12 year old friend Gaving Arvizo had given the police all they they need to investigate. America, or the world had never seen anything like it. In 2005 Jacksons case came to court. And so the stage was set for what would be one of the biggest trials of the century. If was a showdown of a decade in making, covered by twice as many media as turned up for the OJ Simpson trial. Jackson faced 14 counts, from child molestation, to conspiring to inprison the accuser and his family at the neverland ranch. If found guilty he would face at least 20 years in prison.
Thomas Mesereau: These are horrific charges, these are ugly nasty charges, I think its worse to be charged with something like this than homocide. I really do. The 14-week trial was a circus.
Thomas Mesereau in 2005: "This case is about one thing only, its about the dignity, the integrity, the decency, the honer, the charity, the innocence and the complete vindication of a wonderful humanbeing named Michael Jackson.
Host: Hollywood jorunalist Jamie saw things very differently:
J: I saw people that were out to get MichaeL Jackson, I saw people who were angry at Michael Jackson, I also saw people who adored him, then I saw a bunch of people who I felt very deeply was lying, were getting paid, gettng influence, and I found the whole thing frightning.
Host: On which side do you think people were lying?
J: Oh, they were lying in favour of Michael Jackson, in his defense saying nothing ever happened.
Host: Adrian took the stand against her former employer:
A: It was pretty crazy. I was not shocked it was happening again, because I knew it was going to happend again. Do you know what I am saying?
Host: You thought a trial was going to happen sooner or later?
A. Sad to say it, but I did.
Wade Robson whos now accusing Jackson of abusing him, was the star witness for the defense.
Thomas Mesereau: He was very very strong in his defense of Michael Jackson. And he told me in no uncertain terms that he had not been molested, he had not been touched, he had not been abused and these claims for ridicolus. I man this man was so strongly of Michael Jackson, so powerful in his defense of Michael Jackson that is just shocks me that he as changed his story, in recent years, I just cant get over it.
Host: As the trial reached a conclusion, the strain on Michael Jackson was starting to show.
Thomas Mesereau: I watch him detoteriate physicly and emotionally during the trial, he lost weight, his cheeks became more sunken in, by verdict day he looked like just a shellow of his former self.
Host: After 8 days of deliberations, the jury reached its verdict. A unynamious decision of not guilty on all charges.
Host: That moment in the court room, then they said not guilty, how many times?
Thomas Mesereau: 14 times.
Host: 14 times. What was that like?
Thomas Mesereau: It was one of the most unique, powerful, unusual experiences in my lifetime.
Host. what did Michael Jackson say to you?
Thomas Mesereau: He said thank you, thank you, thank you! I will never forget it.
Host: For Michael Jackson it was vincidation, but the damage was done. And life at neverland would never be the same again.
Host: Were you suprised by the outcome?
A. No I was not surpised because, I think in todays world, alot of jurors, they dont like to say that a celebrity is guilty.
Host: Why not?
A: Because they think they are above everybody else, they look up to them and right away thinks, everybody want money, so celebrities can do no wrong in todays world, thats what I think.
Host: Michae Jackson may have been found guilty in the trial, but the trial and the headlines it made, damgaged his reputaion irreversibly. Never again would he hit the higs of the musical stardom, he had once known.
Thomas Mesereau: But for Thomas Mesereau, the man who defended him, Michael Jackson was the victim, not the boys who ended up in his bed at neverland.
host You dont think Michael Jackson has molested one single person?
Thomas Mesereau: Michael was a creative spirit, he danced to his own drummer, he saw things we do not see, he heard things we do no hear, he was a creative genius, he was eccentric, he was different and he was an artist. I dont believe he was a molester for five seconds.
Host: But what about the history? The number of accusers? Chandler, Arvizo, Robson, Safechuck. Are they all making it up?
Thomas Mesereau: Lets look at them individually: Safechuck swore under penatly of perjury he was never abused, Robson swore under penalty of perjury he was not abused, Arizo was not believed by the jury, 2 other people were paid of, to end litigation so he could get on with his career, if you look at evertone under a microscope, what do you really come up with, not much.
Host: Alot more than most humans face in their lifetime...
Thomas Mesereau: He is the biggest target on the planet, he was the most famous on the planet, he was immensly wealthy, he was perceived as immensly vulnerable, this made him a target throughout his life. And hes being attacked even in death by people that want money.
At neverland:
Adrian. I cant believe I am coming back here.
Host: Adrian is inisting she is telling the truth about Michael Jackson and neverland, a place she would rather forget.
Host, when you see these gates again, whats the memory?
A: Anxiety, misery, I would never go through these gates again ever.
Host: Thats how you think about all those years?
A: Misery, a bad choice that I made.
Host: If Michael Jackson was alive do you think you would speak out like this?
A. If he was alive, I would say it, I would say it to his face, I really would.You know I was 28 when I started working for him, these boys were young, if it was hard for me at that age, can you imagine how it was for them? There is another side to him and I saw it. I dont feel sorry for that, I feel sorry for the children.
There may be some mispelling since I rushed it:
I am so angry at that idiot that I dont find words to describe it. She has seen nothing concrete, if anything at all and they are putting on a show based on her lies and ASSUMPTIONS. DESPICABLE! I just want to cry, these horrible persons just ruining Michael, I feel worse than in 2005 even :-(
I need to rest now, my head is spinning from writing the transcript.....
----
Host: She know the life of the star too well, after cleaning up for him, for 4 years.
And tonight for the first time, tells us what the maid saw:
Adrian: I think he was starting to realize maybe I was catching on, because I got a call from him, he called me on mothers day, it was a sunday morning at my home. He said I want to ask you something and I said yeah OK. I kid you not, he asked me about 8 times, what do you kow? Mr.Jackson I do not know what you want me to tell you. What do you know Adrian?
Host, that was the question, what do you know Adrian?
Adrian What do you know? I was starting to get really really frightened. I was scared to hell, I was terrified of him.
Host: Adrian was once a trusted member of Michael Jacksons inner circle. Now she is his accuser. From 1990 to 1994, she was his housemaid, with intimitate access to the inner sanctum of the most famous person on earth.
Host: Its often said that he could be a very generous man when he wanted to be, did you find that? There was some different sides to him, there was a kind side, and there was a dark side, and I feel that he was manipulator and I feel that anybody that come in contact with him, he destroyed them! I´ve been destroyed!
Host: And these accusations are not being made by Adrian alone. New explosive allegations by two men, who were once very close and very loyal to the singer, claims they were abused as children, and there familys exploited in the worst possible way. So now why, whats driving these claims. Was Michael Jackson really a harmless troubled genious, or a cold calculating predator?
Host: Adrian is nervous, during the drive through Santa Ines valley to her old place of work. She has not been back to Michael Jacksons neverland ranch in 20 years.
Host. Just coming up this road gives you anxiety?
Adrian: Its kind of like facing your nightmare, you know.
Host: The singers fans still flock here to get a glimpse of their idols refugee. But for Adrian, its far from a happy place. Up for sale the 67 million dollar, neverland remains empty and off limits to visitors. A place frozen in times from when Michael Jackson ruled the world. From child prodigy to moonwalking megastar. There was no artist like him before, or since.
Host: When you started working at neverland, what was it like?
A: There were rules, alot of rules you had to follow! You dont stare at him, you dont ask him for an autograph, you do what he tells you to do, you dont question him.
Host. Within 3 months of becoming a member of the team, she begun cleaning Michael Jacksons bedroom.
Host: Michael Jackson must have trusted you?
A: Yeah, he told me I was excellent. I did tell him, maybe I am not the right person for you. And he said, "no Adrian your excellent, loyalty means alot to me, you could be with me forever.
The first time I cleaned his beedroom, I did not even know where to start.
Host: Was he the kind of rockstar that would just drop everything behind him and let you pick up?
A: Yeah, it was like that.
Home videos from the time, captured the singer relaxing at neverland. It was a place to live out his fantasies. And he shared the fun with the childrend he surrounded himself with.
What was the first thing for you, what made you first suspect that Michael Jackson had an unhealthy interest in children?
A: I noticed that were a lot of little boys, that all would hang around there, you would not see little girls, and I eeh knew the little boys were there. When they would arrive, they would put their clothes in a suitcase in his room. I started realizing, thinking, wondering, when was taking baths with them or sleeping in his bed.
Host: With sleepings its sleeping?
A: Yeah.
Host: You are talking about about the WORST KIND OF SLEEPING WITH CHILDREN?
A: Yeah, I know the truth, I was there. And I when I would go in the next day, there little boys underwear, either on the floor with Michaels or they were in the jacuzzi.
Host: So you were suspicious as soon as you saw that?
A: Yeah, I got suspicious and then I would also find underwear in his bed. I find undwerwear that were mens briefs in the walking closet, and they were, I dont like saying this, they were like cringy hard with yellow stains all over them. I did not know who they belonged too, because the little boys started wearing MIchaels briefs. And they would live their underwear in his drawer.
Host: The more adrian saw, the more convinced she was a predator. A feeling she says were shared by other staff at neverland. There was alot of vaseline at neverland, sometimes it was found in the golf cart, when Michael Jackson would take off with the boys.
Host: Vaseline?
A: Yeah, vaseline. And there was alot of vaseline in Michaels bedroom. It was actually all over the ranch.
Host: Is there possible an innocent explanation to that?
A: I dont think so.
Host: What disturbed Adrian the most was the way the popstar would be physical with the kids who were intrusted to his care.
A: They were sitting on his lap, the kids, I just saw alot of maybe fondling, him rubbing his his hands in the kids hair. Eeeh, kissing them.
Host: When you say fondling?
A. Hugging, kind of patting them...
Host: Patting them were?
A: Kind of by their rear end. I dont think it was approriate because it was not his children you know. I just did not think it was right.
Host: Did you talk to anyone about it?
A: You know, I signed up confidentilality agremeents, and I was already conditioned and programmed, you dont question it. We were told, stay away from the family. You are just maid doing your job.
Host: Would you think 14 years later this would all be repeated?
Thomas Mesereau: I would never have imagined such a thing would happen. I just still have trouble comprehending it.
Host: The lawyer Tom Mesereau means the latest allegations are claims of oppurtunists, out to make a buck.
Thomas Mesereau: I cant get over it. I just dont put any credibility to it to any of this, I just dont.
Clip from 2005:
Thomas Mesereau: Justice was done, the man is innocent, he always was."
Host: in 2005, he helped clear Jackson of child molestation charges. And defends the singer to this day.
Thomas Mesereau: I am 100% convinced, Michael never abused a child, never harmed a child, certainly never molested a child, I think this is hogwash.
Host: Are you on any sort of retainer from the Jackson estate?
Thomas Mesereau: No I am not a retainer at all (looks disgusted by the question)
Host: So no one is paying you money to say nice things about Michael Jackson?
Thomas Mesereau: No, I will always say he was a nice person, he was, he was one of the nices people I ever met.
Host: But you of all people know the smoke and fire argument? Is there any fire?
Thomas Mesereau: There no fire here whatsoever.
He was enourmous, it shouldnt have been king of pop, it should have been god of pop, emperor of pop. Charisma is not even word he had on people, I was caught up, everthing around him was a fantasy.
Host. Jamie Would is an old school entertainment reporter, who followed Michael Jacksons career from the start. She regarded Jackson as the ultimate creating genious. But also saw a dark side, I could not help but observe, what a spoiled king of pop he was. How he used his fame and power, in very loving and very childish, and mean ways.
Host: Jamie remembers at the height of Jacksons fame, it was easy for starstruck families and their kids to be drawn into the singers magical world.
Host: Surrounding himself with children, did not you find that unusual?
J: We did not find that unusual, he tried to be the piper, when I was around him, there was groups, some in costume, some just regular kids, following him. And it just seemed like a comfort for him, his explanation was he did not have a childhood. Yes, did it seems strange, did it seem eccentric, yes. But that eccentrity let get away with much, because its Michael.
Host: In the 1990s busloads of children would be invited to neverland to enjoy the themepark and the zoo. But Jacksons maid Adrian, says there was always a lucky few who seemed to receive special attention. Young boys like child actor M.Culkin. Who she says she saw being toucher innapropriately by the singer.
Host: You are on record, you are on public record, court record talking about M.Culkin. Do you stand by that story?
A: I stand by what I said in n my deposition, yeah. I think its best to you just leave it at that.
Host: Because M.Culkin is saying its prepostrous, doesnt he?
A: Yeah:
Host: He denies it to this day.
A: He does
Host: But you say it did happen?
A: I say, I saw what I saw.
Host: M.Culkin has always supported Michael Jackson, and denies the singer ever molested him. But back in 1993 another of Jacksons young male friends turned against him. 13 year old Jordan Chandler accused Jackson of sexually abusing him during sleepovers at neverland,
Host: Did you ever see Michael Jackson molest Jordan Chandler?
A: I saw some stuff that I did not think was approriate between Mr.Jackson and Jordy.
Host: What sort of things did you see with Jordan Chandler?
A: Michael kissing on him, Michaels hands very close Jordans crouch. It was terrible to see.
Host: Police launched an investigation into the abuse allegations an Jordan Chandlers family accouned they were preparing a civil case, but despite her strong suspiciouns to the contrary, in a sworn deposition said she had never seen Jacksn molester children.
A: I was scared to say anything bad about Mr. Jackson. And then uuuh, after that after I did the deposition. Probably 30 days after, Michael called my at my home.
Host: She claims Michael demanded to know what his private maid had told investigators about his behaviour. Adrian found herself in a hard position.
A: I did not think I was supposed to do that, I was worried about that, but then I thought you better do it, so I did it. And then one day in the afternoon, he came up to me and said Adrian, this is for you, he handed me a little index card, that was like stapleds on the side, and it said, thanks for everything!
A: I opened the envelope and it was 300$. I covered for him he paid me 300$.
Host: He was buying your silence for 300$
A: Yeah.
---
Michael Jackson fired back his accusers, in a live televised announcement from neverland.
Michael Jackson: "There has been many disgusting statements recently concerning allegations of improper conduct on my part. These statements are totally false, dont treat me like a criminal, because I am innocent."
A: I remember that, I was working there the day that video was shoot.
Host: It was 1993. "Dont treat me like a criminal, because I am innocent" Does that bring back strong memories?
A: It takes me back to that day, it makes me mad that I had to be involved in something like that. Why me?
Host: So you dont believe that statement from Michael Jackson one tiny bit?N
A: No.
Host: Jackson was never charged with molesting Jordan Chandler, but the young boy and his family received a 20$ dollar settlement from the singer. It led to intense critisism that Jackson was buying the silence of his accuser of his victims.
CLIP from Diane Saywer interview:
Diane: Did you ever sexually fondle, have sexual contact with this child or any other child?
Michael: No, never, I could never harm a child or anyone. Its not in my heart, its not who I am, I am not even interested in that.
Host: After Jackson paid millions to settle the case with Jordan Chandler, things changed for the worst for the workers at neverland. Adrian claims she and other staff were victimized by Michael Jacksons security guards, because they knew too much.
A: I was threatened, his bodyguards, told me that if ever came up on TV they could hire someone and take me out. Slice my neck and they would never find me body.
Host: And you believed him?
A: Yeah, I did. I lived in fear for many many years.
Host: Adrian lived with the fear, and Michae Jackson lived with the rumours. But in 2003 he made a monumental mistake. By inviting Martin Bashir, to show his life at neverland. The documentary living with Michael Jackson. Jackson gave an insight of the madness that engulfed the singers every move. Michael Jackson hope it would turn his reputation around. Instead it destroyed him.
Thomas Mesereau: I think the Martin Bashir documentary was a disaster for Michael Jackson. I think he never have trusted Martin Bashir to do an objective, professional documentary.
Host: Jacksons lawyer believes it was a turning point.
Host: Why do you think that? You think the results was slanded against him?
Thomas Mesereau: I think Mr.Bashir turned it all against him, try to created sensationalism documentary, for his own game. Thats my opinion. And it was cut together in my opinion designed to make Michael look bad.
Host: What looked particulary bad was this, twelve year old Gavin Arvizo, bad been recovering from cancer, when Jackson met and befriended him. In the documentary, Martin Bashir asked the young boy about the sleeping arraingments at neverland.
After the broadcast, Michael Jackson accused Bashir of betraing his trust, and manipulating the the interview. But the fuse was lit, and police raided neverland,
Thomas Mesereau: Aprox 70 sheriffs raided neverland, searched every building, every room, for computers for documentarie evidence, anything they could find. They were relentless in their efforts to find evidence to convict Michael Jackson.
Host: And the size of that raid, what did they find?
Thomas Mesereau: Nothing in my opinion.
Host: Michael Jackson was arrested and charged. It was a humiliating downfall. That would see Jacksons dirty laundry aired before the world.
Adrian claims she has been left penniless from working 4 years for Michael Jackson as his house maid. When she left in 1994, she and 4 other employees sued the singer for wrongful termination and lost.
Host: Do you still owe the Jackson estate money?
A: Uuuum, uuuum, I probably do but you know, Michael is dead now
Host: You must know that?
A: I know that, I cant remember, it might have been, oh god it was alot of money.
Host: You were ordered to pay legal fees initially.
A: Yeah, for breach of contract, for suing Michael Jackson
Host: Which was 1.6$ million.
A. It was probably that.
Host: Just to refresh your memory.
A. Yeah.
Host: The sheriff hasnt come knocking on the door?
A: no.
Host: And you hope they dont?
A: Well, if they do they do.
Host: In a counter-suit Jacksons estate accused her of stealing belongings of Michael Jackson from neverland to sell to the media.
A: There waa scetch that I found in thrash.
Host: You sold that scetch of elvis you found?
A. I figured that if it was in thrash it did not mean anything to me, uh, I should not have did that, but I did.
Host: And the jury in the case said that you owed Michael Jackson 32 000$ for stealing and selling that.
A: Yeah.
Host. Did you pay that?
A. No I did not.
Host: Did not pay back that either?
Adrian: No
Host the credibilty of Adrian has again been questioned, because of her changing account of what she saw at neverland. Sworn evidence she gave in 1993, that she never saw any inappropriate behvaiour by Jackson to any child.
Host: At Michael Jacksons trial, you were found to have lied under oath,
Host: So admit to lying under oath?
A: OK, uum, I am going to explain that, when Michael threatened me, I was scared of what was going to happen to me, my family my son.
Host: So admit not telling the truth?
A: Yeah because he threatened me.
Host: How do we know you are telling the truth now?
A: Well, lets put it this way, I know the truth, I did not sleep very good at night. Eeehm, I am happy that I did the right thing by tring to stand up.
HHost: So admit to lying under oath?
Thomas Mesereau: You got to look very careful at peoples motives, and you got to look very carefully at the facts, you got the most famous person in the world, one of the wealthiest people in the world, perceived as very vulnerable. Okay, and people contantly exploited him throghout his life.
Host, for Thomas Mesereau so much of what was aimed at Michael Jackson, was about cash,
Thomas Mesereau: People wanted to make so much money from Michael Jackson rising so high, and then splatter. They wanted the story to have an miserable ending for him, they hope they would see him in the court room in chains, in jail clothes, without make up, without his hair fixed, without the clothing he liked to wear, they were looking forward to the final chapter were Michael *****n gets destroyed. And it was very disheartening to observe.
Host: So you think its all ties into money?
Thomas Mesereau: Yes, money, fame and publicity.
Host: Including what he views as the latest trumped up charges of child abuse
Host: Some of these accusers have not just changed their story slightly, they have don a U-TURN, is there a possible explanation in the metoo movement, where people are now more comfortable to say "look I was abused, can we please do something about?"
Thomas Mesereau:Right now if you were accused of this worst type of thing, you would almost be found guilty before you can defend yourself. I think right now we are going a little too far. And alot of people that are not honest, were trying to capatilize on this particular movement, are raising accusations that needs to be challenged.
Host: You dont think the freedom of the metoo movement can explain why the recent 2 accusers have come forward and saying Michael Jackson abused them?
Thomas Mesereau:I think the freedom of the metoo movement has allowed false accusations as well as real accusations. And we got to be really careful to make sure whats real and whats false.
Host. By agreeing to partipicate in the Martin Bashir documentary, with the innocent assistence of his 12 year old friend Gaving Arvizo had given the police all they they need to investigate. America, or the world had never seen anything like it. In 2005 Jacksons case came to court. And so the stage was set for what would be one of the biggest trials of the century. If was a showdown of a decade in making, covered by twice as many media as turned up for the OJ Simpson trial. Jackson faced 14 counts, from child molestation, to conspiring to inprison the accuser and his family at the neverland ranch. If found guilty he would face at least 20 years in prison.
Thomas Mesereau: These are horrific charges, these are ugly nasty charges, I think its worse to be charged with something like this than homocide. I really do. The 14-week trial was a circus.
Thomas Mesereau in 2005: "This case is about one thing only, its about the dignity, the integrity, the decency, the honer, the charity, the innocence and the complete vindication of a wonderful humanbeing named Michael Jackson.
Host: Hollywood jorunalist Jamie saw things very differently:
J: I saw people that were out to get MichaeL Jackson, I saw people who were angry at Michael Jackson, I also saw people who adored him, then I saw a bunch of people who I felt very deeply was lying, were getting paid, gettng influence, and I found the whole thing frightning.
Host: On which side do you think people were lying?
J: Oh, they were lying in favour of Michael Jackson, in his defense saying nothing ever happened.
Host: Adrian took the stand against her former employer:
A: It was pretty crazy. I was not shocked it was happening again, because I knew it was going to happend again. Do you know what I am saying?
Host: You thought a trial was going to happen sooner or later?
A. Sad to say it, but I did.
Wade Robson whos now accusing Jackson of abusing him, was the star witness for the defense.
Thomas Mesereau: He was very very strong in his defense of Michael Jackson. And he told me in no uncertain terms that he had not been molested, he had not been touched, he had not been abused and these claims for ridicolus. I man this man was so strongly of Michael Jackson, so powerful in his defense of Michael Jackson that is just shocks me that he as changed his story, in recent years, I just cant get over it.
Host: As the trial reached a conclusion, the strain on Michael Jackson was starting to show.
Thomas Mesereau: I watch him detoteriate physicly and emotionally during the trial, he lost weight, his cheeks became more sunken in, by verdict day he looked like just a shellow of his former self.
Host: After 8 days of deliberations, the jury reached its verdict. A unynamious decision of not guilty on all charges.
Host: That moment in the court room, then they said not guilty, how many times?
Thomas Mesereau: 14 times.
Host: 14 times. What was that like?
Thomas Mesereau: It was one of the most unique, powerful, unusual experiences in my lifetime.
Host. what did Michael Jackson say to you?
Thomas Mesereau: He said thank you, thank you, thank you! I will never forget it.
Host: For Michael Jackson it was vincidation, but the damage was done. And life at neverland would never be the same again.
Host: Were you suprised by the outcome?
A. No I was not surpised because, I think in todays world, alot of jurors, they dont like to say that a celebrity is guilty.
Host: Why not?
A: Because they think they are above everybody else, they look up to them and right away thinks, everybody want money, so celebrities can do no wrong in todays world, thats what I think.
Host: Michae Jackson may have been found guilty in the trial, but the trial and the headlines it made, damgaged his reputaion irreversibly. Never again would he hit the higs of the musical stardom, he had once known.
Thomas Mesereau: But for Thomas Mesereau, the man who defended him, Michael Jackson was the victim, not the boys who ended up in his bed at neverland.
host You dont think Michael Jackson has molested one single person?
Thomas Mesereau: Michael was a creative spirit, he danced to his own drummer, he saw things we do not see, he heard things we do no hear, he was a creative genius, he was eccentric, he was different and he was an artist. I dont believe he was a molester for five seconds.
Host: But what about the history? The number of accusers? Chandler, Arvizo, Robson, Safechuck. Are they all making it up?
Thomas Mesereau: Lets look at them individually: Safechuck swore under penatly of perjury he was never abused, Robson swore under penalty of perjury he was not abused, Arizo was not believed by the jury, 2 other people were paid of, to end litigation so he could get on with his career, if you look at evertone under a microscope, what do you really come up with, not much.
Host: Alot more than most humans face in their lifetime...
Thomas Mesereau: He is the biggest target on the planet, he was the most famous on the planet, he was immensly wealthy, he was perceived as immensly vulnerable, this made him a target throughout his life. And hes being attacked even in death by people that want money.
At neverland:
Adrian. I cant believe I am coming back here.
Host: Adrian is inisting she is telling the truth about Michael Jackson and neverland, a place she would rather forget.
Host, when you see these gates again, whats the memory?
A: Anxiety, misery, I would never go through these gates again ever.
Host: Thats how you think about all those years?
A: Misery, a bad choice that I made.
Host: If Michael Jackson was alive do you think you would speak out like this?
A. If he was alive, I would say it, I would say it to his face, I really would.You know I was 28 when I started working for him, these boys were young, if it was hard for me at that age, can you imagine how it was for them? There is another side to him and I saw it. I dont feel sorry for that, I feel sorry for the children.
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