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Thread: Were Michael and Prince friends?

   
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    Default Re: Was Michael and Prince was friends?

    They weren't close but there wasn't any animosity between them either. They would just see each other here and there in the industry and had more of a professional buisness type of relationship. Musically Michael had a lot of respect for Prince just as he did for Michael.

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    Default Re: Was Michael and Prince was friends?

    Plus don’t forget MJ and Prince we’re originally both gonna do the Batman soundtrack with MJ doing the hero ballads and prince the funky up beat songs course it didn’t go down like that mainly cause MJ/Prince were on different labels Michael being Sony and Prince Warner Bros so idk how that would’ve managed out

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    Default Re: Was Michael and Prince was friends?

    Prince and Michael? I really don't think we will really know the truth about it.. it's surpasses the point of clarity between myth and reality there. Any answer you are going to get here is mixing personal opinion with educated guessing..

    There will never be a conclusive answer, we will always imagine what it was and what it wasn't.
    **He lives forever within us**

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    Default Re: Prince

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelD View Post
    Do you mean, you think?
    Why are you that certain?
    Quote Originally Posted by Themidwestcowboy View Post
    I don't think that's true at all. If Prince never wanted to collaborate with MJ then he wouldn't even have attended the meeting at hayvenhurst to discuss it in the first place. Also prince sent "Would you like to love me" to MJ for him to record on and put on Bad, that is also a form of collaboration.

    I personally think that Prince truly wanted to collaborate with MJ not just be featured on of his songs, like bad, cause that was set up for prince to lose the "Battle", no matter how you look at it and it would be a bad look for . Especially considering prince's ego at the time.
    Apart from these two cases (‘BAD’ song, ‘We Are The World’ song), there is also a third case in which Prince showed that he did not really want to collaborate with MJ on a song.

    It took place during the ‘HIStory’ recording sessions, when MJ called Prince to work together on a song, but Prince eventually did not want to begin working with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    Right after Purple Rain, he released Around The World In A Day and refused to release a single or film videos for it until Warner Brothers insisted he do it. People around Prince said he would lose interest in a project very quickly and want to go on to the next thing. Warners turned down many of his projects because they said he would saturate the market and the albums would cancel each other out. Also I doubt a guy that was only interested in commercial success would change his name to a symbol which resulted in comedians and the media making jokes about him for years. Or putting out instrumental funk jazz albums as Madhouse. He might have gotten a hit if he made Kenny G style smooth jazz instead. Prince also made flop movies like Graffiti Bridge & Under The Cherry Moon. I'm not sure that a lot of people in the 1980s were interested in paying to see a black & white movie at the theater. The plot of Graffiti Bridge didn't make a lot of sense. A lot of Prince's music was too weird to become mainstream hits like a song about incest (Sister). Batman sold because anything involved with the 1989 Batman movie was popular. Other than Purple Rain and 1999/Diamonds And Pearls, most of Prince's other albums were not huge sellers, and he did not get consistent hit singles like a Whitney Houston or Phil Collins.
    The change of his name to a symbol was a temporary move by which he wanted to get a specific message across (that artists are the ones that should have ownership of their master recordings, not the companies).

    He knew also that this name change would not really have a negative impact on his commercial success, in fact in Europe he increased his commercial success even more during that period (in 1993, for example, his concerts in Wembley Stadium in London became sold out in no time).

    Also, when certain of his albums did not perform commercially well, then he always wanted to find the reasons for that (like, when his ‘Love Symbol’ album did not sell well, he blamed the Warner Bros. Records for not promoting it adequately).

    Prince also wanted to please his fan base too, as he said it was a sophisticated fan base that expected the unexpected from him, so this explains why some of his music may appear not commercially strong enough.

    Also, with certain films, like the Graffiti Bridge one, he wanted to create a cult following as well (a practice that even Madonna exercised with some of her films).

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    Default Re: Was Michael and Prince was friends?

    At the Grammys in 1988, Prince was in the audience and after Michael's performance of TWYMMF and MITM, he stood up and clapped with the rest of the audience, you can see it on the video of that performance.
    I don't know if Michael ever saw a performance by Prince.

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    Default Re: Was Michael and Prince was friends?

    I believe MJ went to a Prince show in 07 or 08 in LV. I though I read that someplace. When I listen to 2bad with headphones on I hear a voice singing background and it sounds like Prince to me. I’m sure it’s not but dang it sure does sound like him.

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    Default Re: Prince

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    The change of his name to a symbol was a temporary move by which he wanted to get a specific message across (that artists are the ones that should have ownership of their master recordings, not the companies).

    He knew also that this name change would not really have a negative impact on his commercial success, in fact in Europe he increased his commercial success even more during that period (in 1993, for example, his concerts in Wembley Stadium in London became sold out in no time).

    Also, when certain of his albums did not perform commercially well, then he always wanted to find the reasons for that (like, when his ‘Love Symbol’ album did not sell well, he blamed the Warner Bros. Records for not promoting it adequately)
    Diamonds & Pearls was successful because Frank Dileo was working with Prince. Notice that the music videos from that album had higher production values than Prince's usual cheap looking videos. Frank wasn't involved with the symbol album. Also the general public wasn't checking for a gangsta Prince when there was the real thing with Geto Boys, Snoop Doggy Dogg, NWA, Nate Dogg, etc. They were selling lots of albums at the time. Coming out with a gun microphone and putting out records like "Gold N-word" and thinking that radio would play a song like Sexy MF with the cursing chorus. Then the 1970s James Brown sound was long out of style in the New Jack Swing era. Even James himself had released a New Jack Swing record. That 3 Chains O'Gold movie did not help. Doing stuff like this probably did not help him win the hip hop audience either.
    Last edited by DuranDuran; 07-05-2019 at 06:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Prince

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Apart from these two cases (‘BAD’ song, ‘We Are The World’ song), there is also a third case in which Prince showed that he did not really want to collaborate with MJ on a song.

    It took place during the ‘HIStory’ recording sessions, when MJ called Prince to work together on a song, but Prince eventually did not want to begin working with him.


    Also, with certain films, like the Graffiti Bridge one, he wanted to create a cult following as well (a practice that even Madonna exercised with some of her films).
    That's a rumor about him turning down a collaboration for HIStory because as Brad Sundberg said nobody heard the phone conversation that he and MJ had. Prince worked with Madonna and somehow MJ was beneath him?? Oh please. As I said before I'm sure prince would have collaborated with MJ on Bad had it been a fair match.

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    Default Re: Was Michael and Prince was friends?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson Rules View Post
    At the Grammys in 1988, Prince was in the audience and after Michael's performance of TWYMMF and MITM, he stood up and clapped with the rest of the audience, you can see it on the video of that performance.
    I don't know if Michael ever saw a performance by Prince.
    MJ saw a couple of Purple Rain concerts in LA IIRC

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    Default Re: Prince

    Quote Originally Posted by Themidwestcowboy View Post
    That's a rumor about him turning down a collaboration for HIStory because as Brad Sundberg said nobody heard the phone conversation that he and MJ had. Prince worked with Madonna and somehow MJ was beneath him?? Oh please. As I said before I'm sure prince would have collaborated with MJ on Bad had it been a fair match.
    It is not a rumour.

    It was one of those type of meetings that MJ used to make while working on an album during the sessions.

    MJ ordered his managers to contact Prince.

    Prince came, they discussed in person, but in the end Prince stood up & walked away, turning in that way down for one more time a MJ’s offer for a possible collaboration (on the ‘HIStory’ album, this time).

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    Diamonds & Pearls was successful because Frank Dileo was working with Prince. Notice that the music videos from that album had higher production values than Prince's usual cheap looking videos. Frank wasn't involved with the symbol album. Also the general public wasn't checking for a gangsta Prince when there was the real thing with Geto Boys, Snoop Doggy Dogg, NWA, Nate Dogg, etc. They were selling lots of albums at the time. Coming out with a gun microphone and putting out records like "Gold N-word" and thinking that radio would play a song like Sexy MF with the cursing chorus. Then the 1970s James Brown sound was long out of style in the New Jack Swing era. Even James himself had released a New Jack Swing record. That 3 Chains O'Gold movie did not help. Doing stuff like this probably did not help him win the hip hop audience either.
    But it is very common for commercially successful artists (or bands) to decide at some point to experiment with a different music genre.

    Even Duran Duran did that with their ‘Medazzaland’ album in 1997, when they experimented with electronica/ambient music.

    Prince in early ‘90s did the same but with rap/hip-hop, after having enjoyed commercial success with some of his previous releases (including his ‘Batman’ album in 1989).

    He did not really want to become tougher than the real thing (that was already out there), or to create a gangsta personality that would replace that real thing.

    It was just part of his multi-faceted musical personality, to try new things for a given period of time, something not unusual in his fans' eyes.

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    Default Prince & hip hop

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    But it is very common for commercially successful artists (or bands) to decide at some point to experiment with a different music genre.

    Even Duran Duran did that with their ‘Medazzaland’ album in 1997, when they experimented with electronica/ambient music.

    Prince in early ‘90s did the same but with rap/hip-hop, after having enjoyed commercial success with some of his previous releases (including his ‘Batman’ album in 1989).

    He did not really want to become tougher than the real thing (that was already out there), or to create a gangsta personality that would replace that real thing.

    It was just part of his multi-faceted musical personality, to try new things for a given period of time, something not unusual in his fans' eyes.
    Duran Duran was kinda electronic music already, so it wasn't changing their image. Prince wasn't just doing rap, he was trying to have a gangsta image, which is about street cred and "keeping it real". It's not like he was doing Kid & Play, Technotronic, C+C Music Factory, Betty Boo, Tone Loc, or Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince. There's nothing about Prince that's street or gangsta. He's a guy with a lot of makeup and high heel boots and sings in falsetto. Look at how Prince dressed and how the average rapper dressed during that era. Most rappers wore just ordinary clothes that the audience wore. Like Run DMC & Adidas sneakers and LL Cool J's Kangol hats & track outfits or NWA's LA Raiders caps & t-shirts. They did not wear a buttless yellow outfit like Prince.

    MC Hammer tried to go gangsta too and it did not work that well for him either, which is kinda ironic since it's been said that Hammer was really a street dude, although that wasn't his music image. If Prince was really trying to get in the hip hop world, then he would have gotten a legit rapper. Not Tony M, TC Ellis, or Carmen Electra. Hip hop is not like getting some pretty girls to make a group that he could control like Vanity 6. A lot of people did not take Tony M serious.
    He wasn't even Vanilla Ice level and Ice became a joke to the public after it was found out he wasn't from "the streets" like he claimed. Vanilla Ice's debut album sold over 10 million copies in the US, the next one flopped pretty bad. Then there was that incident with Suge Knight where Ice was hung from a balcony. Prince did not fit in with all that. The rap world was serious, not just entertainment. Look at what happened to Tupac & Biggie Smalls and also that big fight at the Source Awards one year.

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    Default Re: Prince

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    It is not a rumour.

    It was one of those type of meetings that MJ used to make while working on an album during the sessions.

    MJ ordered his managers to contact Prince.

    Prince came, they discussed in person, but in the end Prince stood up & walked away, turning in that way down for one more time a MJ’s offer for a possible collaboration (on the ‘HIStory’ album, this time).
    Ok i'll take your word for it. It still proves to me that prince was interested and very open to collaborate with MJ. Why else would he even entertain that idea and agree to business meetings with him? It's a shame because I think it would have been good.

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    Default Re: Prince & hip hop

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    Duran Duran was kinda electronic music already, so it wasn't changing their image. Prince wasn't just doing rap, he was trying to have a gangsta image, which is about street cred and "keeping it real". It's not like he was doing Kid & Play, Technotronic, C+C Music Factory, Betty Boo, Tone Loc, or Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince. There's nothing about Prince that's street or gangsta. He's a guy with a lot of makeup and high heel boots and sings in falsetto. Look at how Prince dressed and how the average rapper dressed during that era. Most rappers wore just ordinary clothes that the audience wore. Like Run DMC & Adidas sneakers and LL Cool J's Kangol hats & track outfits or NWA's LA Raiders caps & t-shirts. They did not wear a buttless yellow outfit like Prince.

    MC Hammer tried to go gangsta too and it did not work that well for him either, which is kinda ironic since it's been said that Hammer was really a street dude, although that wasn't his music image. If Prince was really trying to get in the hip hop world, then he would have gotten a legit rapper. Not Tony M, TC Ellis, or Carmen Electra. Hip hop is not like getting some pretty girls to make a group that he could control like Vanity 6. A lot of people did not take Tony M serious.
    He wasn't even Vanilla Ice level and Ice became a joke to the public after it was found out he wasn't from "the streets" like he claimed. Vanilla Ice's debut album sold over 10 million copies in the US, the next one flopped pretty bad. Then there was that incident with Suge Knight where Ice was hung from a balcony. Prince did not fit in with all that. The rap world was serious, not just entertainment. Look at what happened to Tupac & Biggie Smalls and also that big fight at the Source Awards one year.
    Prince wanted to approach the rap/hip-hop world in his own way, which was more of a lighthearted way.

    With his gun microphone at that time for example, Prince wanted sarcastically to show that for him trying to rap was like shooting himself in the face.

    The way, also, he raps on certain songs from that period proves his rather humorous approach to that genre.

    Prince never said that he wanted to be exactly like the real thing, nor did his fans have such expectations from him.

    That explains also why, during his rap period, he did not want to conform stylistically to the real thing (by not wearing the clothes that an ordinary, real rapper does).

    The commercial success of some of his previous releases gave him also the luxury to experiment for a while (mainly for fun) with that genre.

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    Default Re: Prince & hip hop

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Prince never said that he wanted to be exactly like the real thing, nor did his fans have such expectations from him.
    But the singles with rap elements (My Name Is Prince, Sexy MF) did not become big hits in the USA. It was the songs that didn't have rap that were more popular (Cream, 7, Diamonds And Pearls, The Most Beautiful Girl In The World). They became Top 10 hits on the Hot 100 in Billboard. Insatiable & Gett Off were Top 10 hits on the R&B chart. Gett Off is the only song out of these hits that might have hip hop elements, but it did not become a big pop hit. If you go to a Prince fansite, many do not think much of Tony M or Prince's rapping. But a lot of people posting on those sites do not like hip hop at all though. They don't consider rap "real music by real musicians" as they like to say. They're like "Prince plays several instruments and can make his songs by himself and rap is just some guys talking over somebody else's record and they can't play an instrument to make their own music". They say Jughead is probably the worst Prince song. It's also unlikely that many hip hop only fans rate Prince's rap songs. Like a rap fan is not likely to give the rapper on Black Or White a high rating.

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    Default Re: Prince & hip hop

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    But the singles with rap elements (My Name Is Prince, Sexy MF) did not become big hits in the USA. It was the songs that didn't have rap that were more popular (Cream, 7, Diamonds And Pearls, The Most Beautiful Girl In The World). They became Top 10 hits on the Hot 100 in Billboard. Insatiable & Gett Off were Top 10 hits on the R&B chart. Gett Off is the only song out of these hits that might have hip hop elements, but it did not become a big pop hit. If you go to a Prince fansite, many do not think much of Tony M or Prince's rapping. But a lot of people posting on those sites do not like hip hop at all though. They don't consider rap "real music by real musicians" as they like to say. They're like "Prince plays several instruments and can make his songs by himself and rap is just some guys talking over somebody else's record and they can't play an instrument to make their own music". They say Jughead is probably the worst Prince song. It's also unlikely that many hip hop only fans rate Prince's rap songs. Like a rap fan is not likely to give the rapper on Black Or White a high rating.
    People who do not like rap/hip-hop at all are expected to say that.

    But, there is also the other side of the coin: in a sense, rap is also real music with the rappers being real musicians who use their mouth as a musical instrument.

    So, it depends on the definition that one gives to real music/real musicians.

    Also, many of the rappers just decide to focus on rapping, so we do not really know if they cannot play a real musical instrument to make their own music.

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