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Thread: Could ECMO saved MJ?

   
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    Question Could ECMO saved MJ?

    Check out this heart-lung maching ECMO. Would it has saved MJ if the doctors use this machine on MJ on June 25th, 2009?


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    Default Re: Could ECMO saved MJ?

    No.
    MJ was dead when he came to the hospital.
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    Default Re: Could ECMO saved MJ?

    What could have saved MJ was if he chose to get proper help for his health issues instead of relying on money hungry Conrat Murray.

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    Default Re: Could ECMO saved MJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MIST View Post
    No.
    MJ was dead when he came to the hospital.
    I read this report that MJ has some heartbeat at the emergency room. Was there a ECMO machine at UCLA Hospital that they could have tried on MJ?


    3. The emergency room’s resuscitation efforts.

    23. At 13:21 hours or 1:21 p.m., the nurses and physicians at UCLA detected a weak femoral pulse and cardiac activity for Michael Jackson. At 13:22 hours he showed cardiac activity. At 13:33 he showed a weak ventricular rhythm (contracting of the lower heart chambers). Dr. Cooper reported that when Michael Jackson was intubated with an endotrachial tube he had good breath sounds and “The initial cardiac rhythm appeared to be wide and slow in the 40s.” At 13:52 or 1:52 p.m. he had a pulse of 53 beats per minute, with a MAE complex (major arrhythmic event).

    24. At 14:05 the physicians inserted an intra aortic balloon pump (mechanical device placed in the aorta to assist blood flow) to attempt resuscitation and obtain circulation with a spontaneous heart-beat. The pump was placed in the aorta just above the heart, and his diastolic blood pressure (blood pressure between heart beats) went from 20 to approximately 40 at times and sometimes to 60 mmHg. Despite these efforts, Michael Jackson did not regain a spontaneous pulse or heart-beat. Following failure of the balloon pump to restore circulation, and the lack of a heart-beat, pulse, or spontaneous respirations, Michael Jackson was pronounced dead at 14:26 hours or 2:26 p.m. on June 25, 2009.

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    Default Re: Could ECMO saved MJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MJJFan105 View Post
    I read this report that MJ has some heartbeat at the emergency room. Was there a ECMO machine at UCLA Hospital that they could have tried on MJ?


    3. The emergency room’s resuscitation efforts.

    23. At 13:21 hours or 1:21 p.m., the nurses and physicians at UCLA detected a weak femoral pulse and cardiac activity for Michael Jackson. At 13:22 hours he showed cardiac activity. At 13:33 he showed a weak ventricular rhythm (contracting of the lower heart chambers). Dr. Cooper reported that when Michael Jackson was intubated with an endotrachial tube he had good breath sounds and “The initial cardiac rhythm appeared to be wide and slow in the 40s.” At 13:52 or 1:52 p.m. he had a pulse of 53 beats per minute, with a MAE complex (major arrhythmic event).

    24. At 14:05 the physicians inserted an intra aortic balloon pump (mechanical device placed in the aorta to assist blood flow) to attempt resuscitation and obtain circulation with a spontaneous heart-beat. The pump was placed in the aorta just above the heart, and his diastolic blood pressure (blood pressure between heart beats) went from 20 to approximately 40 at times and sometimes to 60 mmHg. Despite these efforts, Michael Jackson did not regain a spontaneous pulse or heart-beat. Following failure of the balloon pump to restore circulation, and the lack of a heart-beat, pulse, or spontaneous respirations, Michael Jackson was pronounced dead at 14:26 hours or 2:26 p.m. on June 25, 2009.
    You need more than a pulse to sustain life. You need a suitable blood pressure to enable oxygenated blood to reach all parts of the body, you need a heart that will spontaneously beat and pump from all 4 chambers in correct rhythm and you need voluntary breathing effort. You also need an undamaged brain to keep everything going, and undamaged organs (kidneys, liver etc) to keep your other systems functioning.

    My understanding is that only Murray said that he could detect a faint pulse at Carolwood, and that the paramedics would otherwise have ended CPR then. (Murray had not been undertaking CPR correctly or effectively).

    LA hospitals have excellent equipment and excellent Emergency room medics, who know very well if and when life is sustainable by mechanical means or not. No ethical medic would ever place a patient on mechanically-assisted support if they know that patient will never be able to come off the support...it would then become a decision about when to 'turn off the machines', which is a horrendous decision for any family to be involved in.

    ECMO is only suitable for a limited spectrum of patients, and only for those who are expected to regain full unaided circulation and voluntary respiration within 3 weeks. Sadly Michael had had very extended efforts at CPR and any further mechanical assistance would have been futile.

    Edited to add: I also understand that Murray did not tell he ER staff immediately about the meds that MJ already had in his system- propofol etc. and these could have had an adverse effect on CPR efforts:
    ''Several medications commonly administered after CA may affect cardiovascular function, including antiarrhythmics and sedatives. Antiarrhythmics such as amiodarone and beta-blockers have negative inotropic effects which may impair systemic hemodynamics in the setting of PAMD. Propofol often produces hypotension from systemic vasodilation and direct myocardial depression and may impair the response to vasopressors and inotropes, particularly in patients with cardiovascular dysfunction''.
    Last edited by myosotis; 08-06-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Could ECMO saved MJ?

    If Conrad Murray told the medics and the UCLA doctors that he gave MJ propofol, would that truth has saved MJ's life? What would the medics or doctors do differently if they know MJ has propofol in his system?

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    Default Re: Could ECMO saved MJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MJJFan105 View Post
    If Conrad Murray told the medics and the UCLA doctors that he gave MJ propofol, would that truth has saved MJ's life? What would the medics or doctors do differently if they know MJ has propofol in his system?
    He was already gone by the time the paramedics got to the house, it wouldn't have made a difference. Murray waited far too long to call 911 after finding Michael unresponsive and didn't take the necessary steps to bring him back while it was still possible.


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    Default Re: Could ECMO saved MJ?

    With a cardiac arrest if you dont get treatment within minutes you wont survive as the brain becomes starved of oxygen and you become brain dead.

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