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Thread: HD Short Films

   
  1. #16
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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by dam2040 View Post
    No, I think from Dangerous onward no short film was shot on film. Ghosts being an exception. Is there any source for this?
    No. They were all shot on film since Beat It, including Dangerous, HIStory, BOTDF and Invincible eras (as I posted in the list).

    The only problem is that some of them contain CGI (made in SD back in the times) that would need to be re-done to match in HD/4K. Unless they just do a simple upscaling.

    Here are some photos/videos taken on the "making of" showing Panavision cameras for each video:

    Billie Jean
    https://images.app.goo.gl/1YeDusPSrToFctde9
    No CGI used. Steve Barron, productor of Billie Jean stated:
    "We used 16mm film. The reason we didn’t use 35mm – I’d just shot Don’t You Want Me on 35mm – is that there wasn’t enough in the budget."
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...llie-Jean.html

    Beat It
    https://images.app.goo.gl/wQnjDBuCvED5FPoFA
    No CGI used.

    Thriller (at 9:30s)
    https://youtu.be/HFRMkCC8pCs
    No CGI used. Already restored in 4K.

    Bad
    https://images.app.goo.gl/VgcLBgybWPtRrJZ59
    https://images.app.goo.gl/kEqghmtNqLoccNWV9
    No CGI used.

    The Way You Make Me Feel
    No CGI used. No pic/video of the camera found. Any info is welcome.

    Smooth Criminal
    https://images.app.goo.gl/qoW19LR5k4bTYqPP8
    No CGI used.

    Dirty Diana
    No CGI used. No pic/video of the camera found. According to the superb PQ on Moonwalker (blu-ray), i have no doubt it was shot in 35m.

    Speed Demon
    https://images.app.goo.gl/NqXaAH23umqbTVip7
    No CGI used.

    Come Together
    No CGI used. No pic/video of the camera found. According to the superb PQ on Moonwalker (blu-ray), i have no doubt it was shot in 35m.

    Leave Me Alone
    https://images.app.goo.gl/3m36sQ1FdUXecHcDA
    No CGI used.

    Liberian Girl
    https://images.app.goo.gl/zMJB7AHS6LTXHd4s6
    No CGI used. I guess it was the same camera/type of camera used for the short film.

    Black or White
    https://imgshare.io/image/ppsue4e.R2I0q
    https://youtu.be/1KtVaihOEug (at 2:44s)
    Presence of CGI.

    Remember the Time (at 0:33s)
    https://youtu.be/AO_-Eb2xWIo
    Presence of CGI when Michael appears.

    In the Closet
    https://youtu.be/blzGvykyOr4
    We see the the 35mm camera from time to time.
    No CGI used.

    Jam (at 0:14s)
    https://youtu.be/8vJIs_lKqqM
    No CGI used.

    Give In To Me (at 0:45s)
    https://youtu.be/Q0ccRJtlePw
    Presence of CGI.

    Who Is It
    No pic/video of the camera found but it was shot by David Fincher, almost sure it was shot on film.

    Scream (at 2:14s)
    https://youtu.be/SPLy-E8ld0Q
    Presence of CGI.

    Childhood (at 1:35s)
    https://youtu.be/DchVf32b4pM
    Presence of CGI.

    You Are Not Alone
    I didn't find any pic or video showing the camera. Any info is welcome.

    Earth Song
    https://images.app.goo.gl/ag4UBbm1iY34XooY6

    They Don't Care About Us (at 11:14s)
    https://youtu.be/n4z0YSPhnUk
    No CGI used.

    Prison Version(at 3:44s)
    https://youtu.be/f7E2Nr50d0Y

    Stranger In Moscow (at 7:00s)
    https://youtu.be/Pgqz_VdcJO8
    Presence of CGI.

    Blood On The Dance Floor
    No pics or video of the camera found. Any info is welcome.

    Ghosts (at 10:32s)
    https://youtu.be/3EFkqn2TwIw
    Presence of CGI.

    You Rock My World
    https://twitter.com/Bobinti/status/1...872861186?s=19
    No CGI used.

    Cry
    No pics or video of the camera found. Any info is welcome.
    Last edited by Joce; 21-07-2019 at 04:55 PM.

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson112 View Post
    Content shot on tape doesn’t have to be stuck in standard quality if it’s upscaled. I know that it won’t be true HD but as long as it looks good, I think people should be happy. I have Blu-rays where the main content is all upscaled from video tapes and they look fine.
    Sure you can upscale the content in HD, 4K, 8K... It doesn't mean it will get any better. Watching on a computer screen, 40 to 55 inch TV will be ok, but after that it's another story. Unless you sit far from the TV.

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  4. #18
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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by Joce View Post
    Good point !

    Restoring Michael Jackson's videography is IMO the most important thing because as you pointed it, a camera negative doesn't live forever. Michael gave us a majestic videographic heritage.

    List of music videos shot on tape:
    - Blame It On The Boogie
    - Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough
    - Rock With You
    - She's Out Of My Life

    List of short films shot in 16mm film:
    - Billie Jean

    List of short films shot in 35mm film
    - Can You Feel It
    - Beat It
    - Thriller
    - Bad
    - The Way You Make Me Feel
    - Dirty Diana
    - Smooth Criminal
    - Speed Demon
    - Leave Me Alone
    - Liberian Girl
    - Black Or White
    - Remember The Time
    - In The Closet
    - Jam
    - Give In To Me
    - Who Is It
    - Scream
    - They Don't Care About Us
    - Childhood
    - You Are Not Alone
    - Earth Song
    - Stranger In Moscow
    - Blood On The Dance Floor
    - Ghosts (long version)
    - You Rock My World

    List of short film shot in 70mm:
    - Captain EO

    I didn't mention some videos like Man In The Mirror because they contains different archives footages, the quality varies.

    Everything shot in 35mm can be scanned and restored in 4K (with the original camera negative). Kodak states that a 35mm OCN can be up to 6K with a optimal condition.

    70mm is equivalent to ~ 8K

    16mm is equivalent to ~ 2K/HD

    Content shot on tape will be stuck in standard quality forever. Unlike film it's resolution has a fixed limit.

    To this day, Thriller is the only preserved short film as it was scanned and restored in 4K, thanks to John Landis.
    I didnt know that Captain EO was shot on 70mm. This would be great to remaster in 4/8k. Long overdue.

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    What's the difference between those then?
    The 35mm film itself was directly projected to a theater audience in 1983. The broadcast VHS copy (released to cable TV and home video) is nothing more than a dubbed version of the film on a lower quality medium.

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    I remember an article mentioning that the estate were remastering all the videos for Youtube/Vevo last year

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_brainiac View Post
    I remember an article mentioning that the estate were remastering all the videos for Youtube/Vevo last year
    Any chance you have a link?

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_brainiac View Post
    I remember an article mentioning that the estate were remastering all the videos for Youtube/Vevo last year
    Well that obviously wasn't true as i just wrote alicia & she said she'll make sure the estate receives my message. Im sure she wouldve hinted at something at the time

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    If they do remaster the videos, I hope the Estate releases the collection on UHD Blu-Ray and also updates the videos on YouTube like Dead Or Alive just did with their 4K remaster of You Spin Me Round. Imagine seing Michael's short films in this quality!

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderouzmj View Post
    Well that obviously wasn't true as i just wrote alicia & she said she'll make sure the estate receives my message. Im sure she wouldve hinted at something at the time
    I honestly think it's just a standard response, 'your comments will be passed on'. I wouldn't read too much into it.

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
    I honestly think it's just a standard response, 'your comments will be passed on'. I wouldn't read too much into it.
    🤦🏾*♂️dont give my hopes up lol...i hope thats not the case & i wonder if they update all the YouTube videos will they lose view count? Maybe they should leave the old videos up just so ppl can compare the differences.
    Last edited by wonderouzmj; 21-07-2019 at 07:43 PM.

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_brainiac View Post
    I remember an article mentioning that the estate were remastering all the videos for Youtube/Vevo last year
    By "remastering", i hope they scan the original camera negatives for ALL short films in 4K resolution, and then doing the restorations.

    After the "Vision" boxset fiasco using the same old VHS masters, they better not ruin the project this time.

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by Ctracy34 View Post
    The 35mm film itself was directly projected to a theater audience in 1983. The broadcast VHS copy (released to cable TV and home video) is nothing more than a dubbed version of the film on a lower quality medium.
    Not sure what you mean. Dubbed version?
    Unless it was cropped or anymore edits were done before the TV & VHS release, it must have been the same thing at at the little cinema premiere.

    Of course technically there is a difference between watching film in a cinema or VHS at home. But back then a newly released VHS looked great on the small tube TV screen that it was made for. I'm sure Michael wanted it to be on the medium that reached the most people and therefor made sure the TV / VHS version matched his vision.

    Analogue film projection also isn't perfect btw. Unless you're watching a remastered film transfer on a modern huge TV, inside the cinema it's usually a little too dark and blurry.
    Last edited by Electro; 21-07-2019 at 09:09 PM.

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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
    I honestly think it's just a standard response, 'your comments will be passed on'. I wouldn't read too much into it.
    I agree. i wouldn't get my hopes up. hopefully their serious.



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    Default Re: HD Short Films

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    Not sure what you mean. Dubbed version?
    Unless it was cropped or anymore edits were done before the TV & VHS release, it must have been the same thing at at the little cinema premiere.

    Of course technically there is a difference between watching film in a cinema or VHS at home. But back then a newly released VHS looked great on the small tube TV screen that it was made for. I'm sure Michael wanted it to be on the medium that reached the most people and therefor made sure the TV / VHS version matched his vision.

    Analogue film projection also isn't perfect btw. Unless you're watching a remastered film transfer on a modern huge TV, inside the cinema it's usually a little too dark and blurry.
    Dubbed, meaning it was a step down in quality from its original source. Watching the short straight from a 35mm copy is really a stark difference from VHS, even without restoration. The cinematography and any other effects of film don't all translate smoothly to VHS.

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    Default Re: HD Short Films




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