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Thread: The Change in Michael's Message and Image After 'Thriller'

   
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    Default The Change in Michael's Message and Image After 'Thriller'

    Michael was already showing his vocal range before the mid to late '80's.

    you had the soaring falsetto of 'don't stop til you get enough'.

    the urgency of 'say say say' and 'billie jean'.

    the tenderness of 'human nature' and 'she's out of my life'.

    of course, the aggression of 'beat it'.

    that's just to name a few at the top of my head.

    the only difference is that he took that aggression from 'beat it', multiplied it by 10, until it cancelled out almost everything else! it didn't add to anything.

    'beat it' was crucial and genuine in its message; fighting to prove how tough you are is foolish. keep your dignity and walk away with your head held high. don't be a macho man. it tackled toxic masculinity before it was even a trending topic! Michael was the only man in that video that didn't follow the crowd. yet he ended up being the coolest one there by being himself. he united the feuding gangs through dance. this is key in what made him a role model for young people. the song was used in the president's wife's stop drink driving campaign. parents actually wanted their children to look up to him.

    all of that changed with the next album..

    despite the previous good that Michael did, he was criticised by some in the media and his 'peers' for being too soft. he admitted that he didn't like his 'goody-goody' image (though one could argue that it wasn't an image in the first place). which is why he changed it to become the very thing that he spoke out against; he started grabbing himself, he stalked and harassed women ('the way you make me feel'), violence was now the solution to solving problems ('smooth criminal'/'moonwalker'). he gave in to the ways of the world instead of standing strong in his convictions. people could see through the act though - which was why it wasn't taken seriously.

    another reason why things became murky was because Michael began planting stories about himself in the tabloids (oxygen chamber/elephant bones). by cultivating such a reputation for himself, he consequently pushed his music and art into the background. despite complaining about the reaction he sought out in the first place, he continued such antics until a year before his death. it's a shame because he didn't need a persona, especially one that was so beneath him. he was already an interesting artist and person.
    'if 1983 isn't the year of Michael Jackson, it isn't the year of anybody' - dick clark

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    Default message

    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic View Post
    violence was now the solution to solving problems ('smooth criminal'/'moonwalker').
    I think you're reading a bit much into this. It's entertainment and Mike was never really just a message singer. Mike has said that one of his favorite movies is The Godfather which is a movie about the mafia. Smooth Criminal's video is based on Girl Hunt Ballet from the movie The Band Wagon. Girl Hunt is a parody of then popular noir movies which often had violence in them.

    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic View Post
    he stalked and harassed women ('the way you make me feel')
    Girlfriend is about telling the woman he's having an affair with that he might tell the girl's boyfriend about "what they're doing". The Girl Is Mine is about 2 guys fighting over the same woman, who both are apparently dating.

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    Default Re: Has Michael ever disappointed you in terms of his studio vocals?

    he stalked and harassed women ('the way you make me feel')
    No he didn't. If you watch the short film again, you can see Tatiana laughing and smiling when she's been chased around by him.

    The image quality isn't the best here

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    Default Re: message

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    I think you're reading a bit much into this. It's entertainment and Mike was never really just a message singer. Mike has said that one of his favorite movies is The Godfather which is a movie about the mafia. Smooth Criminal's video is based on Girl Hunt Ballet from the movie The Band Wagon. Girl Hunt is a parody of then popular noir movies which often had violence in them.


    Girlfriend is about telling the woman he's having an affair with that he might tell the girl's boyfriend about "what they're doing". The Girl Is Mine is about 2 guys fighting over the same woman, who both are apparently dating.
    'moonwalker' was rated pg, and was marketed towards children (the 'speed demon' segment in particular). yet it featured; drugs, guns and shooting, child abduction and abuse... it's the same as the 'black or white' promos using bart simpson and mac culkin to draw in children, whilst the panther segment had vandalism and excessive self grabbing. you can't have it both ways. you can't boast of being family friendly when you pull stunts like that. as evidenced by the 'dangerous short films' video compilation, he seemed to enjoy the controversy from that..

    Michael's message was always non violent and clean before then. these roots were established with the songs he and his brothers sang on the gamble & huff productions. the first short film that he had creative control over was 'can you feel it'. one that matched the lyrical concept of unity. there was a reason he was asked to do the e.t. children's story book (the grammy he said he was most proud of), and was due to play peter pan in '83. even though 'thriller' was a horror, no one actually got hurt. yet that was rated 15! (they should have swapped ratings with 'moonwalker') all the way up to 'captain eo', he transformed the witch and her guards with the power of music. i think the shift began when he disassociated himself from the Jehovah's witnesses. which I think was a mistake for many reasons..

    I don't understand the comparison between 'girlfriend', 'the girl is mine', and 'the way you make me feel'. those McCartney collaborations didn't have any visuals, and Michael didn't even write one of them. even so, Michael's character is already in a relationship the women. he's wasn't chasing them. if anything, the woman was the one being dishonest in 'the girl is mine', by declaring her love for different men behind their backs. I agree that 'girlfriend' was immoral - which is one of the reasons I dislike it, but again, Michael didn't write it.
    'if 1983 isn't the year of Michael Jackson, it isn't the year of anybody' - dick clark

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    Default Re: Has Michael ever disappointed you in terms of his studio vocals?

    Quote Originally Posted by analogue View Post
    No he didn't. If you watch the short film again, you can see Tatiana laughing and smiling when she's been chased around by him.

    The image quality isn't the best here
    what about her expression when she's cornered in the alley way on the first chorus? Michael made lewd gestures with his body, and placed his hands on her. it was completely inappropriate. he wasn't being the gentleman that he was known for. what's worse were his gang associates (the crips) who helped him literally close in on her. she tries her best to evade them, but she's at a complete disadvantage. how would she fight them all off by herself in those heels and tight dress? what other choice did she have but to play along every now and then? if she didn't stop after he shouted at her, it could have escalated into something dangerous.. she rolled her eyes. she placed her hands on her hips. she walked away. her signals were obvious; she wasn't interested. Michael saw this and couldn't care less. it only became somewhat equal when she met up with the other women. he stalked her until she gave in. compare this interaction with Michael and ola in 'thriller'. that was playful. this was predatory and creepy. again, it was all a ploy to project a false macho image.
    'if 1983 isn't the year of Michael Jackson, it isn't the year of anybody' - dick clark

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    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic View Post
    'moonwalker' was rated pg, and was marketed towards children (the 'speed demon' segment in particular). yet it featured; drugs, guns and shooting, child abduction and abuse... it's the same as the 'black or white' promos using bart simpson and mac culkin to draw in children, whilst the panther segment had vandalism and excessive self grabbing. you can't have it both ways. you can't boast of being family friendly when you pull stunts like that. as evidenced by the 'dangerous short films' video compilation, he seemed to enjoy the controversy from that..
    Have you even watched The Simpsons or Macaulay Culkin movies? The Simpsons have Itchy & Scratchy. Sideshow Bob is always trying to kill or torture Bart and there's all of the things that happen to Homer. There's also the biker gang leader Snake, the bullies at the school, the Springfield Mafia, and there's even Duff Man the spokesman for the beer Homer drinks at Moe's Bar. The Home Alone movies are basically live action Looney Tunes or Tom And Jerry. Although technically those old cartoon shorts weren't made for children, they were shown before movies for adults. But when they were later shown on TV, they were marketed towards kids and so were the 3 Stooges. Macaulay was also in a movie called The Good Son and he's not "good" at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic View Post
    there was a reason he was asked to do the e.t. children's story book (the grammy he said he was most proud of), and was due to play peter pan in '83.
    What was that? Because Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Ice Cube, Robin Williams, and others have done children's TV and movies. All of them were known for adult entertainment, especially Pryor, and his personal life wasn't clean either. Robin Williams was Peter Pan in Hook.

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    Default Re: Has Michael ever disappointed you in terms of his studio vocals?

    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic View Post
    'beat it' was crucial and genuine in its message; fighting to prove how tough you are is foolish. keep your dignity and walk away with your head held high. don't be a macho man. it tackled toxic masculinity before it was even a trending topic! Michael was the only man in that video that didn't follow the crowd. yet he ended up being the coolest one there by being himself. he united the feuding gangs through dance. this is key in what made him a role model for young people. the song was used in the president's wife's stop drink driving campaign. parents actually wanted their children to look up to him.

    all of that changed with the next album..

    despite the previous good that Michael did, he was criticised by some in the media and his 'peers' for being too soft. he admitted that he didn't like his 'goody-goody' image (though one could argue that it wasn't an image in the first place). which is why he changed it to become the very thing that he spoke out against; he started grabbing himself, he stalked and harassed women ('the way you make me feel'), violence was now the solution to solving problems ('smooth criminal'/'moonwalker'). he gave in to the ways of the world instead of standing strong in his convictions. people could see through the act though - which was why it wasn't taken seriously.
    Oh my goodness you're right. i never realize that to now.


    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic View Post
    another reason why things became murky was because Michael began planting stories about himself in the tabloids (oxygen chamber/elephant bones). by cultivating such a reputation for himself, he consequently pushed his music and art into the background. despite complaining about the reaction he sought out in the first place, he continued such antics until a year before his death. it's a shame because he didn't need a persona, especially one that was so beneath him. he was already an interesting artist and person.
    You are so right. that's why i'm not really a fan of his media songs and the dangerous and history eras. he's depressed in those eras. even though i'm not a fan of those songs he is right about them. so i guess you can say those songs are just him speaking out how the media is and still is saying fake lies about him.
    Last edited by Anna; 28-09-2019 at 10:37 AM. Reason: combined multiple posts



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    Default Re: message

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    I think you're reading a bit much into this. It's entertainment and Mike was never really just a message singer. Mike has said that one of his favorite movies is The Godfather which is a movie about the mafia. Smooth Criminal's video is based on Girl Hunt Ballet from the movie The Band Wagon. Girl Hunt is a parody of then popular noir movies which often had violence in them.
    Exactly.




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    Quote Originally Posted by NatureCriminal7896 View Post
    Exactly.
    There's also this from the 1970s where Mike shoots Jackie while performing I Shot The Sheriff by Bob Marley.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    Have you even watched The Simpsons or Macaulay Culkin movies? The Simpsons have Itchy & Scratchy. Sideshow Bob is always trying to kill or torture Bart and there's all of the things that happen to Homer. There's also the biker gang leader Snake, the bullies at the school, the Springfield Mafia, and there's even Duff Man the spokesman for the beer Homer drinks at Moe's Bar. The Home Alone movies are basically live action Looney Tunes or Tom And Jerry. Although technically those old cartoon shorts weren't made for children, they were shown before movies for adults. But when they were later shown on TV, they were marketed towards kids and so were the 3 Stooges. Macaulay was also in a movie called The Good Son and he's not "good" at all.
    To be honest with you The Simpsons not exactly for kids. i'm not sure how it was back in the day but The Simpsons are really for teens and adults. i know there are kids who do watch the simpsons. so i guess the simpsons would be more of an family show???? the simpsons not so bad but there are somethings in the show that is teens and adult topics.

    your right. some old cartoons were made for adults BUT as time when on they made them for kids and adults to enjoy. i also feel kids were much smarter back then because i wouldn't run off a cliff like Wile E. Coyote on looney toons.



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    Default the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    I was advised to start this new topic, as my comments in a previous thread about studio vocals were steering things in a different direction.

    I ask the moderator(s) to move my comments, and any other appropriate ones, here. I look forward to continuing a lively, insightful, and engaging discussion 2morrow. I must get some sleep first!
    'if 1983 isn't the year of Michael Jackson, it isn't the year of anybody' - dick clark

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    Default Re: Has Michael ever disappointed you in terms of his studio vocals?

    You got a point. people change up their vocals and image because doing the samething all the time can be repeated and boring. that's why Michael changed his image all though out his life because not only he was smart man and had other ideas but he knew it would get boring and repeated if he kept doing the samething all the time. for example. BAD. the reason alot changed during that era is because one he went solo. he was doing things REALLY on his own now and we see somewhat a "new" Michael. he an "bad boy" tough "criminal" image. which is one of my favorite eras next to Thriller. it's something about this era i love. i mean he doing alot. not only that his clothes styles gets even better. it's like he turned punky emo like he in a "street gang" he's an "gangster" etc. only thing that was difficult in this era was that his skin was really changing and he couldn't help it also fake news lies which was getting kind of bad no pun intended (LOL!) during this time after the Thriller era. not only that but also shows Michael tougher side like shows he's not a "softy" like people claims. read up somewhere Michael could actually beat someone up if he wanted to. but we all know he was too kind and gentleman to fight anyone. though, there are some people out there who really needed it and still needs it.



    Also Michael wanted his music and image to live on forever. if he kept doing the samething all the time he wouldn't be were he is now. i might don't like the Dangerous and HIStory eras. but it's great he changed up image. if he wasn't so depressed during these eras with his music. i probably would of like these eras more. but he was an true perfectionist. and i don't think we will ever see anything like him ever again.

    bless him.

    You guys do realize Michael were only acting right? i think we take stuff like this too seriously....

    In the way you make me feel video, Michael actually had sexual feelings for Tatiana. that's why though whole video he doing a lot of sexual suggestive gestures in front of her. i don't think Tatiana felt bad about it. she liked him. Remember this is the BAD era. his image is suppose be "bad boy" "criminal" "gangster" "street gang" image.

    You know looking back at smooth criminal and i just realize this why the heck Michael is taking the kids to a nightclub late at night? LOL! i know it's imagination but that still hilarious.

    Michael started it grabbing himself was because he wanted to try and be grown up alittle. he also started wearing tight clothing because remember, he was Prince rival. in reality, Michael use to grab his belt instead of himself but one day he was like hey, i'm gonna start grabbing myself now so i be more grown up alittle. in the orpah interview in 1993 he said he did it because everytime he dances he just did it. it's like he had to touch there. i don't know, after all he was a guy.

    Michael claimed he didn't dirty dance but it feels like an fib. i mean if he did he was an adult but i don't think it would of been right to be dancing like that in front of children.
    Last edited by NatureCriminal7896; 28-09-2019 at 01:42 PM. Reason: combined multiple posts



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    Default Re: Has Michael ever disappointed you in terms of his studio vocals?

    I think when he disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses he was able to express himself better. That's when the crotch grabs and shirt rips started and I think that came from a genuine place in him. It's common for serious dancers to be able to express some things through the dance better than they can at other times. And again common for performers to be able to magnify certain elements of themselves while on the stage. I think that's why people dance and perform, because they enjoy becoming that, but it is still part of them, it's not fake or some sort of ploy. MJ wasn't a technically trained dancer but he put his soul into it and got lost in his experience which is why he was so captivating to watch and many people's favourite (certainly mine).

    Sorry Anna, I wasn't sure if we are to start posting in the new thread straight away or if that would mess up the order of the posts!
    Last edited by WannaScream; 28-09-2019 at 07:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Has Michael ever disappointed you in terms of his studio vocals?

    Quote Originally Posted by NatureCriminal7896 View Post
    Michael claimed he didn't dirty dance but it feels like an fib.
    Maybe "sexy" dancing is more accurate and he might have admitted to that lol

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