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Thread: The Change in Michael's Message and Image After 'Thriller'

   
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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    We get it, you don't like Michael post Thriller for some strange reasons that I believe you haven't confessed

    So?

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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    Michael did what he felt at the moment he felt it. He got inspired and then channelled that into music or dance. An artist cannot be restricted by labels of "role model" or "family friendly", if they want to be truly authentic. Michael experienced the wide spectrum of human emotions, thoughts, and desires just like every other mentally sound person and his music and dance is how he expressed himself.
    Being a Jehovah's Witness kept him in a box, creatively. Someone who lives and breathes artistic expression can't be contained in that way forever. Freedom is vital. And evolution is not only natural, it's inevitable and necessary. For the sake of their integrity and their sanity, a lot of artists can't just do the same thing over and over and over again. Breaking free from the JW's allowed him to fully bloom.
    If he had stayed in his box he would not have been being true to himself and a lot of his songs/dance/videos would never have made it past being ideas in his head. He would have ended up creatively stagnant and bland, trying to adhere to an image that only represents a part of who he was. People are not just black and white. Yes, Michael was gentle, sensitive, loving, innocent and childlike. But he was also fierce when he had to be, he got angry and frustrated, he hated injustice, intolerance, and suffering, he swore, he drank, he was a grown man who enjoyed sensuality and films containing violence. Whether you like some parts of his art or not is your personal preference, but it is all aspects of the same person expressing himself in the way he wanted to.

    Side note: I don't see anything sinister in the TWYMMF video. The whole thing is one long playful tease between both of them. The feel I get from that video is that if she actually wanted to she could have kneed him in his crown jewels at any time and strutted off to the sound of Michael's "gang" laughing in the distance. She's not running scared, her walk is confident and she even stops multiple times to watch him. She is playing hard to get - the conclusion of the video is confirmation of this, if it wasn't already evident. She's disappointed when he seems to disappear and gives him a hug when he comes back.


    'Immerse your soul in love.'


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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    Did interviewers even ask him about his art and what it meant? It feels like they focussed on the wrong things like plastic surgery.

    There was significance and meaning and a lot of it in the Black or White film when he was free of these confines of the JWs then. Not just in the overall sense in terms of the Panther dance within the context of the film (I don't think it's about overt racism, but it looked that way with the additional window signs added after the public complained - see 'Double Consciousness and the Uncanny Business of Performing While Black') but what about other smaller details that offer further insight to his thoughts? For example, why 'Royal Arms Hotel'? It's so prominent there is definitely meaning there, he is saying something with frustration and that's genuine. We can share thoughts but we will never really know if no one asked. Maybe he wouldn't answer questions because he was too polite to upset anyone directly.

    Just because moves require no training it doesn't mean they are not significant. If he was singled out I think it was because people misunderstood that. Ultimately we are left trying to decode it on our own.
    Last edited by WannaScream; 28-09-2019 at 09:18 PM.

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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic View Post
    unlike the moonwalk or the robot, grabbing oneself is not a dance step that requires years of practice to master. it's about context too; what was he trying to express in regards to racism by doing that? I seriously doubt that this had been building up inside him since was a young man, or that he was supressed by his religion. rather, he was influenced by what others were doing at the time, and more importantly, it was in response to the criticism that he was too clean cut. it wasn't genuine, which is why he was singled out for it. the public expected that kind of behaviour from those other artists. not Michael.

    he marketed himself a role model for the youth. no one made him do that. he (privately, and sometimes publicly) criticised other acts who were raunchy or used profanity. as the president said in '84, he was proof of what one could accomplish with a clean lifestyle. he compromised his values for popularity. it was a step backwards. before he created trends, now he was following them. he never would have commissioned paintings of himself in Jesus' place at the last supper (!) had he remained a witness. or paraded around in military jackets flanked by soldiers. he certainly wouldn't have erected a statue of himself to float down thames. he became larger than life and no one could tell him anything. there was a domineering and sinister energy that seeped into his music and the way he presented himself. what he represented before all of that was something positive and unique.

    Michael wore blue in 'the way you make me feel' which featured the crips. should that be looked at as an endorsement? the 'beat it' video may have been fictional, but at least the song was solutions based and represented Michael's true stance on violence (he spoke about this in his autobiography). it had more of an impact as well.

    wasn't 'bad' supposed to be about a young man who got shot by a plain clothes police officer? I didn't see any reference of that in the film..
    Although I do not agree with this, this is a rather interesting take. Thank you for making the effort to write this.

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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic View Post
    he marketed himself a role model for the youth. no one made him do that. he (privately, and sometimes publicly) criticized other acts who were raunchy or used profanity.

    So did Bill Cosby and look at where he is today. Eddie Murphy even talked about it in one of his comedy specials in the 1980s. Cosby did not approve of Lisa Bonet acting in the movie Angel Heart or doing the nude cover for Rolling Stone magazine. He fired the actor who played Theo's friend Cockroach on The Cosby Show because he started to grow dreads which Cosby did not want on the show. In his later years Cosby put down young black people who had their pants sagging and talking in Ebonics.Cosby had a clean cut image until a few years ago when the allegations about him surfaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic View Post
    as the president said in '84, he was proof of what one could accomplish with a clean lifestyle. he compromised his values for popularity. it was a step backwards. before he created trends, now he was following them.
    Did Reagan have a clean lifestyle though? Many rock groups were really popular without a clean lifestyle. Eddie Van Halen who played on Beat It definitely was not clean living. The motto is "sex, drugs, & rock n roll". Donny Osmond had a hard time being taken seriously past the 1970s because of his clean image.

    Mike always went with what was in, it wasn't like he made
    avant-garde music. He made music designed to be as commercial as possible and sell a lot. Destiny & Off The Wall were disco influenced. Thriller had the new wave, rock, light rock and the R&B bass groove sounds of the early 1980s. You can find a lot of early 1980s songs that sound similar to The Girl Is Mine, which in recent years labeled "yacht rock" by comedians. Victory & Bad was synth dance music based, Dangerous was New Jack Swing. Invincible had the slow jam and neo-soul sounds of that period. Butterflies got a lot of airplay on R&B radio stations and is still played today on the "adult R&B" format

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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    Quote Originally Posted by Themidwestcowboy View Post
    Although I do not agree with this, this is a rather interesting take. Thank you for making the effort to write this.
    It doesn't make any sense at all to me

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    Default Jehovah's Witness

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna View Post
    Being a Jehovah's Witness kept him in a box, creatively. Someone who lives and breathes artistic expression can't be contained in that way forever. Freedom is vital. And evolution is not only natural, it's inevitable and necessary. For the sake of their integrity and their sanity, a lot of artists can't just do the same thing over and over and over again. Breaking free from the JW's allowed him to fully bloom.
    Some people said this happened to Prince when he became a JW around 2000. He stopped using profanity and made his band members put money in a curse jar if they used it in his presence as a fine. Prince wouldn't perform a lot of his earlier music or he changed the words if the song had dirty language. He made an entire album based on being a Jehovah's Witness called Rainbow Children.

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    Default Re: message

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    [COLOR=#000080]I think you're reading a bit much into this. It's entertainment and Mike was never really just a message singer. Mike has said that one of his favorite movies is The Godfather which is a movie about the mafia. Smooth Criminal's video is based on Girl Hunt Ballet from the movie The Band Wagon. Girl Hunt is a parody of then popular noir movies which often had violence in them.
    I agree with you on these points. "Sling Blade" was another favourite movie of Michael's, also the Star Wars franchise. He was into music by Pearl Jam and Nine Inch Nails, etc. Michael didn't switch from "innocent goody-goody" to "controversial bad ass" from one album to the next.....he was always a complex, dichotomous artist with many layers to his personality. The later albums portrayed him exploring all of his personality in the music and also expressing what was going on around him, in terms of societal change. It showed him, with total creative control, spreading his wings. I think it's doing him a great disservice to say that he "created a persona" that was not really him and that the public didn't take seriously.

    Like you, I do not accept these interpretations from the other member:
    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic
    violence was now the solution to solving problems
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic
    he stalked and harrassed women (the way you make me feel)
    . Not at all. In visual art, the formula has always been good v/s bad, where some kind of violence is acceptable, if it means that good triumphs over bad. I do not see stalking and/or harrassment in TWYMMF - it's confident courtship, wooing, the thrill of the chase, the woman playing "hard to get" and so on (all with an audience, too).

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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    I'm sorry but this is absolute nonsense. Insanity.

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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    Quote Originally Posted by 83magic View Post
    Michael demonstrated more maturity and security in his individuality in 'beat it', than in 'bad' or 'the way you make me feel'. in a way, he was the 'adult' who had to get out of bed in the middle of the night to stop these 'kids' from fighting. the way he strutted into the hallway of his apartment building showed confidence. he didn't want or need to seek approval from any group.
    You got a point about the beat it video. even though people claiming it fake it does speak up some questions. this WAS grow up for Michael. insteading of letting the "kids" fight he stops them from fighting. yeah beat it was an great message and very grow up. so yes. i agree with this.

    Even though people saying the beat it video was fake it doesn't mean anything. it still speak out a good message so yes. i approved this video and message.

    not fighting doesn't make an person soft or anything. it means your are mature and knows better. what fighting and killing gonna do? nothing. it's only gonna make the problem worst. thank you for bringing this up.




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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    Beat It was fiction. Also notice that Mike wears a red jacket, which could represent the Bloods. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to try to stop a fight wearing the color of a gang that might be a rival of the 2 gangs in the video.
    Oh wow. i never thought of it that way. maybe he wore it because he knew they would stop. so it is still a good message. if he did it just to make them stop then i don't see nothing wrong with it.

    Just because Michael wore red jacket doesn't mean anything. Michael's favorite colors were red, black, gold, and i think also blue.



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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    I never took the BAD video seriously. so.... at the end of the video Michael (Daryll) song alittle message at the end saying his old "gang" friends were doing wrong etc. i don't take the video seriously but it is confusing. Michael first off playing a prep school teenager who been a rolled to an private expensive school then at the end he's still in a "gang" but his "gang" is much bigger and tougher then his old "gang". would that make him in two gangs? greez louise what Michael (Daryll) be doing on vacation? where is mother? does mother knows he's in these "gangs"? my word. they never show his mother but i feel his mom probably wasn't good neither due to the fact she said she would be home by 7 and that it was only an sandwiches in the refrigerator. either that or she working a job that don't pay a lot. which explains why their still living in the hood. also i just notice were his dad at?

    if video wasn't one of Michael blackish videos i feel sorry for Michael (Daryll) and his mom. wow.

    but yeah this video is confusing. maybe BAD was Michael alternative self. a lot people have this. i see it all the time. maybe Daryll was apart of Michael.

    in the jet/ebony interview in 1987 he said if your tough then you're BAD. back in the 80's the stuff Michael was wearing was popular and the word BAD mean it cool.

    so i don't know.



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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    The Bad video was based on the life of a real person who was killed. So it would have to follow the story of Edmund Perry, who had the peer pressure when he returned to his hood home from his prep school.
    Your right. Michael didn't say it was but did said he saw the story in the newspaper.



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    Default Bad

    Quote Originally Posted by NatureCriminal7896 View Post
    Michael first off playing a prep school teenager who been a rolled to an private expensive school then at the end he's still in a "gang" but his "gang" is much bigger and tougher then his old "gang".
    He couldn't have been that street with pictures of Luther Vandross, Quincy Jones, Stevie Wonder, & The Manhattans on the wall. Unless they're his mom's posters. I don't think any of them would have been seen as someone cool to listen to by young people in the area they lived in during that time period, especially gang members. I think they would more likely to be into rap or at least a then newer singer/group like Al B. Sure!, Janet Jackson, Midnight Star, Jody Watley, New Edition, Guy, Keith Sweat, or Full Force.

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    Default Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

    Like i said early in this thread the way you make me feel video Michael had sexual feelings for Tatiana. that's why though whole video he doing a lot of sexual suggestive gestures in front of her. Tatiana didn't feel bad about it. she already liked him. this was is the BAD era. his image was suppose be "bad boy" "criminal" "gangster" "street gang".

    Michael was actually one of people who pick her for the music video because he had sexual feelings for her. he found her beautiful. Tatiana was only wearing dress and high heels boots in the video. she wasn't half naked.

    yes it all an act but Tatiana should of known that it was acting. yet Michael was wrong too for only using her for his video just because he had sexual feelings for her.

    Michael said he liked her as an friend nothing else but Tatiana on the other hand actually really did like him. you can't help who fall in love with but tatiana should of known this was just for acting.

    i actually feel somewhat sad for her and Michael. but it's actually was more Michael who to blame. sorry mike but you should of known better buddy.

    also ola ray was in playboy and his sister latoya. Michael said he only liked her as an friend also.

    Michael was friends with tupac,biggie,jay-z,diddy beyoncé and many others.

    he actually went to the playboy mansion before claimed he wanted to see the "animals."



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