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Thread: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

   
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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Michael Jackson’s new music in 2019/the 2020s would have sounded like the current sound from the current producers.

    If you look back at his career, whenever he released a new studio album, he would simply follow the current at the time sound.

    Unlike what many of his fans like to think, in terms of the sound of his music (from ‘Off The Wall’ to ‘Invincible’) Michael Jackson was almost always a trend settler, not a trendsetter.

    The main reason for that was that Michael Jackson’s philosophy was to create hits with great commercial success, and he knew that in order to achieve that he had to supply a sound that the audience was very familiar with at a given period.

    ‘Invincible’ is the most telling example, when he relied a lot to the sound of Rodney Jerkins’ music, a sound that at that period was the norm and also a sound that was already very successful by other artists that this producer was working with around those years.
    I understand and respect your opinion, don't get me wrong. I see your point, especially on Invincible (I think Mike listened to too many people on that record and lost a sense of his own artistry) but I will counter your point with Dangerous. I think that album was way ahead of it's time. When you listen to the sound of that record, it takes everything in music (especially New Jack Swing) that was familiar during the last 3 or so years and refines it, and gives it that Michael magic touch. Songs like In The Closet or Remember The Time, if done by anybody of that era, would have stayed rooted in that era but the level layering, the masterful hooks and the edge those songs had transcend the era.

    The best way to do that is, listen to other albums of that era by anyone and then listen to Dangerous, it still stands up today. The Michael and Teddy tracks are out of this world. I would also say you can do that with, Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad. The only album to me that sounds as comtempary as Bad, is Kick by Inxs which was also released in 1987, but there isn't a song on Kick as much as I love it, that has a sonic soundscape like Liberian Girl or a track that is as cutting edge as Smooth Criminal. Although I will say parts of Bad haven't aged as well

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Now in 2019, Speed Demon is still 20 years ahead of the times.

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    Default neo-soul

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    Invincible again overall sounded dated as hell on release.
    The neo-soul tracks were then current. Neo-soul didn't really crossover to Top 40 much, but it was popular on R&B radio like Maxwell, Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, D'Angelo, Anthony Hamilton, etc. Floetry who wrote and sang backgrounds on Butterflies was also a neo-soul group. Butterflies got a lot of airplay on R&B stations, way more than You Rock My World did. Butterflies is still occasionally played today on the adult R&B format and so is The Lady In My Life. Eve was on the remix for Butterflies and was also on a couple of Prince songs around the same time.

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    Default DJ Khaled

    Quote Originally Posted by wendijane View Post
    Duran Duran your post is epic.
    But Perish the thought!
    DJ Khaled is not much different from Puff Daddy/P. Diddy in the 1990s. Puffy was everywhere and in the music videos of the acts.

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    Default radiio

    Quote Originally Posted by wendijane View Post
    And guys just sayingif he did do more music like he used to right , how would that have been promoted? Through a tweet?..you've got to be kidding me. Through a story on his Instagram going live? Nah. No way. the magic had to end.
    Well it's unlikely he would have gotten any Top 40 radio airplay, because he would be over a certain age. They aren't going to play an singer/band that is in their 50s or 60s. Pop radio has always had an age limit, but is even moreso today where the age is younger. He might have a chance on adult R&B radio. Adult R&B does play new songs by veteran singers. But that foramt generally have older & smaller audiences than Top 40.

    The way the charts work today in the streaming era is different. All of the songs on an album by a currently mainstream popular act like Drake or Taylor Swift can make the singles chart at one time. But it's the actual single that usually stays there for a longer period.

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    Default Re: neo-soul

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    The neo-soul tracks were then current. Neo-soul didn't really crossover to Top 40 much, but it was popular on R&B radio like Maxwell, Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, D'Angelo, Anthony Hamilton, etc. Floetry who wrote and sang backgrounds on Butterflies was also a neo-soul group. Butterflies got a lot of airplay on R&B stations, way more than You Rock My World did. Butterflies is still occasionally played today on the adult R&B format and so is The Lady In My Life. Eve was on the remix for Butterflies and was also on a couple of Prince songs around the same time.
    Interesting. Must have been a USA thing mostly. I can't remember ever hearing Butterflies a single time on radio in Germany, but it also wasn't released as a promo-only single anywhere but in the USA.

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    Default Re: neo-soul

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    Interesting. Must have been a USA thing mostly. I can't remember ever hearing Butterflies a single time on radio in Germany, but it also wasn't released as a promo-only single anywhere but in the USA.
    Butterflies didn't get a lot of airplay on pop Top 40 stations, but it made it to #2 for several weeks on the R&B/Hip Hop chart. Like I mentioned, neo-soul artists in general did not get that much mainstream attention. The second item is the amount of times different songs got played on radio stations in the USA nationwide (called "spins") which is given awards for. Butterflies is at the 100,000 spins level by July 2002.


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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    Let me buy you an "I think"...

    I'm not arguing against your trendsettler point, but I think it was even worse.
    Sounding current and beyond might have been the approach and philosophy in his mind, but ultimately he was way behind trends with his last albums. There was absolutely nothing current about the HIStory album at the time. Apart from the songs with an otherworldly timeless feel (like Earth Song, TDCAU), the songs that did follow formulas (This Time Around, the Hiphop beat sections in the song HIStory etc) sounded years dated at release. The fresh exciting sound of the time (1994~1995) was Timbalands production style, which, by the time Michael finally adapted to it ("Heartbreaker" with Rodney), had been copied by the whole music industry a thousand times before. Invincible again overall sounded dated as hell on release.
    But ‘Heartbreaker’ is dubstep, which has nothing to do with Timbaland’s music.

    Quote Originally Posted by wendijane View Post
    And guys just sayingif he did do more music like he used to right , how would that have been promoted? Through a tweet?..you've got to be kidding me. Through a story on his Instagram going live? Nah. No way. the magic had to end.

    You don't think it's awkward/surreal /funny when mj tweets?
    We were only allowed a limited contact with Michael Jackson.
    Fan letters.
    Fan clubs.
    Fanmania.
    Rare appearances.
    Now all of this, the concept of it, is obsolete!
    And what he said in interviews, about no one understands me... Or, to quote him,

    "I sit in my room at home and sometimes cry. It’s so hard to make friends. Sometimes I walk around the neighborhood at night just hoping to find someone to talk to…but, I just end up coming home."

    ~"My fans truly are a part of me. We share something that most people never experience"

    Being a mj fan was more than being a fan of someone's... Anyone's!..
    The magic. The thrill of the magic. Someone spectacular. Someone resilient. Larger than life.. The hype. That was the whole point of it. And no, we couldn't relate So it doesn't make sense if he was now out there on the Internet being one of your Facebook (or equivalent) "friends " or "follows YOU".
    I don't know how he'd have promoted his art without it being.. Not *Michaelmagical * if that make sense?

    Sorry, time made it so. The electronic age made it so.Internetkilled the video star. I'm sorry...
    Mind you, any more short films would have killed you tube!
    I would loved to think, he'd have gone through that platform, and somehow retaliated with the current Internet situation.? and maybe pursued some kind of ground breaking something there... But then, you tube would have been too mediocre for him?..it goes around in circles to the point where nope I just can't see it.
    Michael Jackson would have chronicled/promoted his new music also through social networking platforms (Instagram, Twitter, etc) these days.

    He would have done that even through YouTube, by posting video/audio teasers from his new, upcoming music.

    It is a route that he had to take like many other very successful artists, and that way of promotion does not necessarily end the magic.

    Madonna’s magic did not end because she chronicles and promotes her new music through her personal social networking accounts.

    Besides, Michael Jackson in his final years was becoming fascinated by the Internet technology in terms of the direct communication between an artist and the fans.

    And Michael Jackson also knew that this modern way of promoting his new music was a very effective way in order to create younger fans who are most of them obsessed with the use of Internet in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothCriminal1995 View Post
    I understand and respect your opinion, don't get me wrong. I see your point, especially on Invincible (I think Mike listened to too many people on that record and lost a sense of his own artistry) but I will counter your point with Dangerous. I think that album was way ahead of it's time. When you listen to the sound of that record, it takes everything in music (especially New Jack Swing) that was familiar during the last 3 or so years and refines it, and gives it that Michael magic touch. Songs like In The Closet or Remember The Time, if done by anybody of that era, would have stayed rooted in that era but the level layering, the masterful hooks and the edge those songs had transcend the era.

    The best way to do that is, listen to other albums of that era by anyone and then listen to Dangerous, it still stands up today. The Michael and Teddy tracks are out of this world. I would also say you can do that with, Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad. The only album to me that sounds as comtempary as Bad, is Kick by Inxs which was also released in 1987, but there isn't a song on Kick as much as I love it, that has a sonic soundscape like Liberian Girl or a track that is as cutting edge as Smooth Criminal. Although I will say parts of Bad haven't aged as well
    The main problem with the ‘Dangerous’ album is that the majority of its new jack swing songs have stayed rooted in that era.

    These two songs (‘In The Closet’, ‘Remember The Time’) may sound like going a step further from that genre, but that is mainly because Michael Jackson and Teddy Riley decided to add a more pop sound to them next to the angular new jack swing beats of these two songs.

    Even ‘Jam’ dated a lot, which explains why they used in 2009 for that song a slightly different instrumentation (with real instruments) in order to make the song sound fresher for the ‘This Is It’ shows.

    The ‘Blood On The Dance Floor’ song (new jack swing, as well) is another example: when that song was released in 1997 just some years after the ‘Dangerous’ album, many people but also fans heavily criticized the song’s sound for being very dated at the time of its release.

    That was also the reason why Michael Jackson and his team used again a slightly different, fresher instrumentation for the HIStory Tour performances of that song in 1997.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Nothing on invincible is dubstep. This is another thing fans just like to say.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    But ‘Heartbreaker’ is dubstep
    The ever growing tree of electronic music genres and merging subgenres is a confusing mess.
    But be sure that this song has absolutely nothing to do with any flavour of dubstep at all.

    There's rather a small relation to "2step", but even that is far fetched.
    It's much closer to some of what Timbaland did in the 90s (which was 2step (a short-lived UK underground trend) inspired to some small degree).
    Last edited by Electro; 19-11-2019 at 03:20 PM.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Even ‘Jam’ dated a lot, which explains why they used in 2009 for that song a slightly different instrumentation (with real instruments) in order to make the song sound fresher for the ‘This Is It’ shows.

    The slight changes in instrumentation could simply be because the band couldn't replicate the original more precise in the given situation, or they just felt like it / had the freedom to do so, or because the approach simply was to have things sound "live" instead of 100% album this time, not necessarily because they saw a NEED to update.



    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    The ‘Blood On The Dance Floor’ song (new jack swing, as well) is another example: when that song was released in 1997 just some years after the ‘Dangerous’ album, many people but also fans heavily criticized the song’s sound for being very dated at the time of its release. That was also the reason why Michael Jackson and his team used again a slightly different, fresher instrumentation for the HIStory Tour performances of that song in 1997.

    Bad ears and bad logic leading to false fact.

    Firstly, by 1997 there was no way for fans to voice their opinion en mass about anything so it would cause immediate reaction by Michael.

    Secondly, Michael had just finalized the BOTDF song and album in a studio in Switzerland while being on the HIStory tour. It was released with the start of the second (west European) leg of the tour. The song was in the top 10 charts all over Europe, reached no.1 in the UK. There was no need and it would not have made any sense to deliberately update the sound at that point, especially that Michael is known to have said something in the vein of prefering the album sound at concerts to not "cheat" on the audience.

    And he didn't. Just listen properly.... apart from the mix being adjusted for the concert setting (vocals louder etc), all instruments were the exact same as in the studio version of the song. That's one reason, why (besides the nice blue jacket) I think that is one of the most boring parts of the show.




    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    And Michael Jackson also knew...

    Last edited by Electro; 20-11-2019 at 12:07 AM.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    The slight changes in instrumentation could simply be because the band couldn't replicate the original more precise in the given situation, or they just felt like it / had the freedom to do so, or because the approach simply was to have things sound "live" instead of 100% album this time, not necessarily because they saw a NEED to update.

    Bad ears and bad logic leading to false fact.

    Firstly, by 1997 there was no way for fans to voice their opinion en mass about anything so it would cause immediate reaction by Michael.

    Secondly, Michael had just finalized the BOTDF song and album in a studio in Switzerland while being on the HIStory tour. It was released with the start of the second (west European) leg of the tour. The song was in the top 10 charts all over Europe, reached no.1 in the UK. There was no need and it would not have made any sense to deliberately update the sound at that point, especially that Michael is known to have said something in the vein of prefering the album sound at concerts to not "cheat" on the audience.

    And he didn't. Just listen properly.... apart from the mix being adjusted for the concert setting (vocals louder etc), all instruments were the exact same as in the studio version of the song. That's one reason, why (besides the nice blue jacket) I think that is one of the most boring parts of the show.

    The sound of the ‘Blood On The Dance Floor’ song has a slightly different, funkier edge in the HIStory shows in 1997, although you are still unwilling to accept that.

    They did that because the song attracted a lot of negative criticism by many for its dated sound when it came out.

    Some of the negative reviews came also from sneak previews of that song (before its official release).

    The fact that the song had chart success at the time means nothing, because Michael Jackson was in 1997 a very active artist with big exposure and any newly released single from him would have achieved chart success during that period, especially in Europe.

    Also, according to information from his team, Michael Jackson (during those shows) was always very anxious right before re-entering the stage in order to perform that particular song because of those slight, sound modifications they did to it, hoping that the audience would now like its newer, slightly different version.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    The sound of the ‘Blood On The Dance Floor’ song has a slightly different, funkier edge in the HIStory shows in 1997, although you are still unwilling to accept that.
    Not sure what you are doing, but I'm listening to the outcome and think for myself.


    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    The fact that the song had chart success at the time means nothing, because Michael Jackson was in 1997 a very active artist with big exposure and any newly released single from him would have achieved chart success during that period, especially in Europe.
    Sure. But still, as Michael was success oriented and wanted to please the audience (as also implied by your theory), there was no need to change anything, as it already was a success.


    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Also, according to information from his team, Michael Jackson (during those shows) was always very anxious right before re-entering the stage in order to perform that particular song because of those slight, sound modifications they did to it, hoping that the audience would now like its newer, slightly different version.
    Why don't you post some full quotes about this with sources. So you can show that this is not again one of your self-constructed theories.

    I just had another listen to the Munich live version. There are a few tiny short overdub bits done by organ and a guitar in a few parts of the song, but that's so minimal, that the average listener will never notice. This was the case on most of the new songs in the HIStory shows. All the main tracks in the BOTDF song, guitars, the funky bassline, drums, percussion etc are all playback. So it makes no sense to call that "updating dated sound" or that Michael would have seriously sweated specifically over presenting those little details.

    The dated sound of BOTDF was not within the mix of the song and certainly could not be fixed by adding tiny overdub bits and bobs on top in a few parts. The dated sound was the music as a whole.
    Last edited by Electro; 20-11-2019 at 02:08 PM.

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    Default Blood On The Dance Floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    The dated sound of BOTDF was not within the mix of the song and certainly could not be fixed by adding tiny overdub bits and bobs on top in a few parts. The dated sound was the music as a whole.
    In the USA, I remember MTV & BET playing the Wyclef remix. That's also the version on one of Mike's video compilations. I don't recall any version getting much radio airplay locally. The only song from that period that got really heavy radio airplay in the US was You Are Not Alone, and Scream to a lesser extent. There's always big ballad hits like Whitney's I Will Always Love You that get a lot of radio play and You Are Not Alone fits that criteria. R. Kelly was popular at the time as well. Even Celine Dion did a song with him.

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    Default Re: Blood On The Dance Floor

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    In the USA, I remember MTV & BET playing the Wyclef remix. That's also the version on one of Mike's video compilations. I don't recall any version getting much radio airplay locally. The only song from that period that got really heavy radio airplay in the US was You Are Not Alone, and Scream to a lesser extent. There's always big ballad hits like Whitney's I Will Always Love You that get a lot of radio play and You Are Not Alone fits that criteria. R. Kelly was popular at the time as well. Even Celine Dion did a song with him.
    Yes the Wyclef remix could be considered an "update". Although it still was a pretty old fashioned hip hop beat for that time. But it was clearly fitting better for the US market than the original. At that time Hip Hop sound wasn't really part of mainstream over here yet, so it was all about the original version.
    Last edited by Electro; 20-11-2019 at 04:33 PM.

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