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Thread: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

   
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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Blood was always the crap remix on the DVDs I remember

    so annoying. I love the original one of michaels best songs. got a feel good vibe to it somehow

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    Default Re: Blood On The Dance Floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    Yes the Wyclef remix could be considered an "update". Although it still was a pretty old fashioned hip hop beat for that time. But it was clearly fitting better for the US market than the original. At that time Hip Hop sound wasn't really part of mainstream over here yet, so it was all about the original version.
    I don't know how popular New Jack Swing was outside of the USA. But it had been in the US since around 1985, but it really blew up in 1987. It was constantly on the radio in the late 1980s to the early 1990s. Bobby Brown was so popular, they got him to do the theme song for Ghostbusters II. Even Boy George had a New Jack Swing album in 1988 or 89 and the Rolling Stones had Teddy Riley remix one of their singles at the time. There were gospel singers and veterans like Aretha Franklin & Ray Charles doing NJS songs too. By the time Blood was released it was played out. There wasn't that much variety in the style, a lot of the songs sounded alike, and it was on the radio heavily for several years in a row, so it died. It wasn't popular anymore in 1997, so releasing Blood as a single didn't make much sense to me. I guess that was the reason Wyclef was hired to do a remix.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    I don't know why, but I always imagined him "returning to form" after This Is It. So instead of trying to chase the trends, I could have seen him working with people like Babyface, Teddy Riley, Jam & Lewis, or maybe even someone like Bruno Mars and doing more R&B style music.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothGangsta View Post
    Nothing on invincible is dubstep. This is another thing fans just like to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    The ever growing tree of electronic music genres and merging subgenres is a confusing mess.
    But be sure that this song has absolutely nothing to do with any flavour of dubstep at all.

    There's rather a small relation to "2step", but even that is far fetched.
    It's much closer to some of what Timbaland did in the 90s (which was 2step (a short-lived UK underground trend) inspired to some small degree).
    If you both still do not believe that ‘Heartbreaker’ is dubstep, then let me direct you also to Rodney Jerkins’ own words about that.

    … If you go back to even year 2001 when I worked on a project with Michael Jackson called ‘Invincible’, and there was a song we did on that project called ‘Heartbreaker’ and we were doing dubstep back then…" (Rodney Jerkins, Pensado’s Place)

    The song sounds dubstep, it has the characteristics of dubstep, and it has also been described as dubstep by other music critics when the album came out in 2001.

    Also, some music executives who got an exclusive sneak preview of that album (that took place in London, few months before the album’s official release), one of the first things they commented on while exiting the room (after listening to the album) was that ‘Heartbreaker’ as a dubstep track was going to be one of the pleasant surprises of that album.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    If you both still do not believe that ‘Heartbreaker’ is dubstep, then let me direct you also to Rodney Jerkins’ own words about that.

    … If you go back to even year 2001 when I worked on a project with Michael Jackson called ‘Invincible’, and there was a song we did on that project called ‘Heartbreaker’ and we were doing dubstep back then…" (Rodney Jerkins, Pensado’s Place)

    The song sounds dubstep, it has the characteristics of dubstep, and it has also been described as dubstep by other music critics when the album came out in 2001.

    Also, some music executives who got an exclusive sneak preview of that album (that took place in London, few months before the album’s official release), one of the first things they commented on while exiting the room (after listening to the album) was that ‘Heartbreaker’ as a dubstep track was going to be one of the pleasant surprises of that album.

    So mj_frency, what are your favourite Dubstep tracks then?

    Mainstream music executives and especially mainstream music journalists usually are not very well educated about tiny specific underground genres and usually can't care less about getting such details right. Back then they probably also called the HIStory remix single version "Techno".

    If you want to call all music that has this type of slow and syncopated beat "Dubstep", well then it's "Dubstep" for you. But for anyone who has a long enough background in electronic music underground genres, it's crystal clear that this song does not have the main characteristics of any form of "Dubstep".

    A more complete version of that Rodney quote is:
    "If you go back to even year 2001 when I worked on a project with Michael Jackson called ‘Invincible’ and there was a song we did on that project called ‘Heartbreaker’ and we were doing dubstep back then. And we ain’t even known what we were doing. If you listen to it now you’ll go ‘Wow!’ that’s dubstep. We were just trying things, not even knowing. (Rodney Jerkins)"

    In that longer quote it's clear that he thought to have done some form of prototype of the genre, long before it became known as "Dubstep". That's due to his american cultural mindset, where "Dubstep" is the americanized version of it (also called "Brostep") that came to the USA around 2010 and became global mainstream a few years later. But apart from this prototype claim being really far fetched (and probably not meant death serious) he also clearly didn't know what he was talking about when he used the word "Dubstep". He missed out on the fact that the original "Dubstep" that was a "Reggae"~"Dub"~"2-Step"~"Garage" rooted UK underground thing started in 1999~2001.


    See, you can't always take quotes as the gospel without trying to understand the whole context.
    Last edited by Electro; 21-11-2019 at 08:57 PM.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    So mj_frency, what are your favourite Dubstep tracks then?

    Mainstream music executives and especially mainstream music journalists usually are not very well educated about tiny specific underground genres and usually can't care less about getting such details right. Back then they probably also called the HIStory remix single version "Techno".

    If you want to call all music that has this type of slow and syncopated beat "Dubstep", well then it's "Dubstep" for you. But for anyone who has a long enough background in electronic music underground genres, it's crystal clear that this song does not have the main characteristics of any form of "Dubstep".

    A more complete version of that Rodney quote is:
    "If you go back to even year 2001 when I worked on a project with Michael Jackson called ‘Invincible’ and there was a song we did on that project called ‘Heartbreaker’ and we were doing dubstep back then. And we ain’t even known what we were doing. If you listen to it now you’ll go ‘Wow!’ that’s dubstep. We were just trying things, not even knowing. (Rodney Jerkins)"

    In that longer quote it's clear that he thought to have done some form of prototype of the genre, long before it became known as "Dubstep". That's due to his american cultural mindset, where "Dubstep" is the americanized version of it (also called "Brostep") that came to the USA around 2010 and became global mainstream a few years later. But apart from this prototype claim being really far fetched (and probably not meant death serious) he also clearly didn't know what he was talking about when he used the word "Dubstep". He missed out on the fact that the original "Dubstep" that was a "Reggae"~"Dub"~"2-Step"~"Garage" rooted UK underground thing started in 1999~2001.


    See, you can't always take quotes as the gospel without trying to understand the whole context.
    You have lost the dubstep argument, as well.

    The rest of Rodney Jerkins’ quote that I purposefully did not post earlier is quite irrelevant.

    It does not matter what their original intentions were (of Rodney Jerkins and Michael Jackson) when they started creating the ‘Heartbreaker’ song.

    It does not even matter if dubstep had a different term as a musical style, when they started creating that song.

    ‘Heartbreaker’ eventually became a song with a dubstep sound, so it is a dubstep song.

    Rodney Jerkins compared the sound of ‘Heartbreaker’ to the sound of the Justin Bieber’s ‘As Long As You Love Me’ song, and the three men in that interview (Dave Pensado, Herb Trawick and Rodney Jerkins, who are all musically knowledgeable), agreed that these two songs share a very similar dubstep sound.

    Which is true, because ‘As Long As You Love Me’ and ‘Heartbreaker’ do sound very similar (as both being dubstep songs).

    Anyway, the 'Heartbreaker' dubstep discussion is becoming off-topic here.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    You have lost the dubstep argument, as well.
    So you are still convinced that the "live" version of BOTDF was an "update" of the dated style of the song, just because someone you don't quote said so? Respect!


    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    The rest of Rodney Jerkins’ quote that I purposefully did not post earlier is quite irrelevant.
    You don't find it to be relevant because you don't seem to understand what exactly he is talking about nor what you are hearing.


    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Rodney Jerkins compared the sound of ‘Heartbreaker’ to the sound of the Justin Bieber’s ‘As Long As You Love Me’ song, and the three men in that interview (Dave Pensado, Herb Trawick and Rodney Jerkins, who are all musically knowledgeable), agreed that these two songs share a very similar dubstep sound.
    It is not the "sound" (meaning actual sounds: drum sounds, synth sounds / instruments / sound design) that is similar.

    What they mean is the rhythm that is remotely similar because of how the snare drum is placed in halftime. That's it.

    But if you only go by that one detail, you could also claim "Heartbreaker" to be some form of Reggae. Or claim that Disco and Techno are the same, because of the similar straight bassdrum and tempo.

    Within the lot of productions that Rodney has done over the years, "Heartbreaker" might be the first one that would come somewhat close to Dubstep. But that doesn't mean that it IS Dubstep outside of that narrow perspective.

    Here's a YouTube channel with over 10 years of Dubstep. Show me only 1 song that SOUNDS like "Heartbreaker".
    https://www.youtube.com/user/UKFDubstep/

    And then check some 90s Timbaland productions like this one:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5knq2Mbb2A


    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    ... because ‘As Long As You Love Me’ and ‘Heartbreaker’ do sound very similar (as both being dubstep songs).
    Trying to prove Dubstep with a Justin Bieber song is quite hillarious. But anyway...

    The whole sound design of "Heartbreaker" is completely different to what makes Dubstep Dubstep. Even that Bieber pop-cheese-Dubstep song demonstrates that perfectly.

    But if you lack the listening experience to understand the different sound patterns you just won't get it. And in your mind you will "win" every argument about this, just because Rodney said "Dubstep".
    Last edited by Electro; 23-11-2019 at 01:16 PM.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    If he was alive today he would’ve made collabs with The Weeknd and Bruno Mars. I’m sure of it. He would’ve probably also followed the current trend of making trap songs. Imagine Michael on a sick trap beat. It would most definitely go number 1 on the charts.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddlicious View Post
    If he was alive today he would’ve made collabs with The Weeknd and Bruno Mars. I’m sure of it. He would’ve probably also followed the current trend of making trap songs. Imagine Michael on a sick trap beat. It would most definitely go number 1 on the charts.
    Michael following trends?

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by dam2040 View Post
    Michael following trends?
    He did. Michael always had the perfect blend of following trends, updating trends and making his own innovate sound that later became trends.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Themidwestcowboy View Post
    He did. Michael always had the perfect blend of following trends, updating trends and making his own innovate sound that later became trends.
    Yeah but there's a difference between following a trend and making it your own. MJ never simply followed trends.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by dam2040 View Post
    Michael following trends?
    One could argue You Rock My World was him following the R&B trend of the late 90s.

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    Default neo-soul

    Quote Originally Posted by dam2040 View Post
    Michael following trends?
    I just said earlier in the thread that Invincible had several neo-soul tracks. Neo-soul was primarily popular with the R&B audience in the late 1990s to early 2000s, but not as much with the pop audience. So it was a trend. That's the reason Butterflies was a big R&B hit. Neo-soul was mostly mid tempo (aka "steppers" or steppin' songs) and slow jams, not much uptempo tracks.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by dam2040 View Post
    Yeah but there's a difference between following a trend and making it your own. MJ never simply followed trends.
    MJ followed the New Jack Swing trend with some tracks on Dangerous and followed the Rap sound that was popular in the the early 90s with This Time Around (Recruting Hip Hop producer Austin Dallas and even having BIG on the track). Invincible has many neo soul songs etc etc. Butterflies is MJ´s voice on a neo soul song.

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    Default Re: How would new MJ music sound in 2019/ the 2020s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Themidwestcowboy View Post
    MJ followed the New Jack Swing trend with some tracks on Dangerous and followed the Rap sound that was popular in the the early 90s with This Time Around (Recruting Hip Hop producer Austin Dallas and even having BIG on the track). Invincible has many neo soul songs etc etc. Butterflies is MJ´s voice on a neo soul song.
    I think an act starting a trend instead of than doing something already popular (like New Jack Swing or disco) is The Beatles or rather George Harrison. George introduced Indian traditional music & culture to mainstream pop music. After George started playing the sitar, a lot of rock & pop songs started having Indian sounds in them. Others are James Brown as one the originators of funk music and Larry Graham's with his bass thumping style. James' music has influenced acts in many genres. There's also Kraftwerk's influence with electronic dance music.

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