MJ being contradictory?

JichaelMackson

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As is well known MJ intended the bad tour as his final tour yet he it's also well known that he felt at home on stage. He was born to be on stage and perform so why did he want the bad tour to be his final tour?
Also why was he persuaded to do 2 more tours after bad? Was it financially motivated? Was he pressurized by fans demand or the record company?

Either way I've always felt his heart wasn't in it in the final two tours. I know many love them and his "energy" on stage but imo he wasn't half as energetic as in his former tours including those as the J5.
Why did I feel this? Because lots of miming obviously and also a lack of shaking up the setlist. He was an artist that always wanted to go to a next stage, to reinvent himself. His vocal style changed at least 3 times over his career, his dancing continued to evolve as well, it was always a surprise to me to find out what kind of style his next song was going to be. So for me it's surprising that he didn't have the same urge to try something different in concerts, his concert schedule never changed, he never did something unexpected while touring.

I personally was never a fan of MJ trying to recreate his music videos on stage, I didn't want his songs to sound exactly like they did on the albums. Obviously he had a different idea and that's fine but it's the one thing I wanted to be different.
 
Back in those days, tours served as promotion for the album. Today it’s pretty much the other way around, because record sales went down due to streaming etc. Nowadays everyone is on tour all the time, making money from concert tickets and from merchandise sold at the shows.

So, I guess touring to promote the new album was a factor in his unprecedented deal with Sony in 1991 (?). Add in a renewed sponsorship with Pepsi, and the idea of funding a foundation for the benefit of children, and you have some very good reasons to tour again.

I don’t really see the contradiction. People change their mind as their goals change.
 
But if you love being on stage , then why do you say publicly right at your peak that you will stop touring? I still find it contradictory.
I initially thought perhaps he meant to do one of concerts or smaller venues , no more world tours but since he never did those type of concerts either he clearly wanted to end every type of concert after 1989.

The only reason I can think of is that he eyed more acting jobs or work in the movie business in general but that never really worked out (thank God lol)
 
JichaelMackson;4289119 said:
But if you love being on stage , then why do you say publicly right at your peak that you will stop touring? I still find it contradictory.
I initially thought perhaps he meant to do one of concerts or smaller venues , no more world tours but since he never did those type of concerts either he clearly wanted to end every type of concert after 1989.

You can love ice cream, yet still at some point not want any more of it because you’ve had too much. Then, a while later when the belly ache is gone, you go and get some more. Where’s the contradiction?

JichaelMackson;4289119 said:
The only reason I can think of is that he eyed more acting jobs or work in the movie business in general but that never really worked out (thank God lol)

Yeah, keep being thankful that the man didn’t get to fulfill his lifelong dream.
 
ScreenOrigami;4289120 said:
Yeah, keep being thankful that the man didn’t get to fulfill his lifelong dream.

It's a good thing that MJ didn't get to become a full time actor, because he was a very average actor. He wouldn't have ever made it anywhere near the top of acting industry. I always believe that things happen for the best and it was good for MJ that he stayed in the music industry and kept on making music, because that was what he was good at, not acting.
 
Nite Line;4289121 said:
It's a good thing that MJ didn't get to become a full time actor, because he was a very average actor. He wouldn't have ever made it anywhere near the top of acting industry. I always believe that things happen for the best and it was good for MJ that he stayed in the music industry and kept on making music, because that was what he was good at, not acting.

This is a bold statement in MJ’s case … I wish he had gotten the chance to make a real movie and I’m convinced things would be very different today.
 
ScreenOrigami;4289120 said:
You can love ice cream, yet still at some point not want any more of it because you’ve had too much. Then, a while later when the belly ache is gone, you go and get some more. Where’s the contradiction?
Yeah, keep being thankful that the man didn’t get to fulfill his lifelong dream.

Hmm I don't think the ice cream comparison works :p

He had had many dreams, so many in fact he couldn't possibly fulfill them all. I wouldn't mind MJ turning into an actor provided he did musical films so I can at least still hear what he does best.
 
JichaelMackson;4289125 said:
I wouldn't mind MJ turning into an actor provided he did musical films so I can at least still hear what he does best.

Newsflash: You don’t get to decide other people’s choices. :)
 
JichaelMackson;4289127 said:
Whatever, it's clear I'm the villain again

No, you just don’t have a convincing point, in my opinion. When you start a thread you can’t expect everyone to agree with you. You asked for our opinion and I told you mine.
 
ScreenOrigami;4289128 said:
No, you just don’t have a convincing point, in my opinion. When you start a thread you can’t expect everyone to agree with you. You asked for our opinion and I told you mine.

Yes in a very derogatory way. I don't expect anyone to agree, I'm just opening a discussion, I don't even have a point I'm only saying I find it contradictory. Did MJ ever say why he wanted to stop touring?
 
Michael originally wanted to do film projects, but yeah other plans came into mind, like how successful the Dangerous album became, not much numbers as “Thriller”, but just as successful, he decided to support it for the Dangerous Tour and wanted to tour to donate his tour money to supports kids for his own Heal The World Foundation.
 
JichaelMackson;4289130 said:
Yes in a very derogatory way. I don't expect anyone to agree, I'm just opening a discussion, I don't even have a point I'm only saying I find it contradictory. Did MJ ever say why he wanted to stop touring?

Well, if you read back through our conversation, it’s pretty easy to tell at which point it went south. I think the ha ha lol comment about MJ’s movie career that never happened was a bit insensitive and out of place if you’re interested in a nice and polite discussion.
 
ScreenOrigami;4289132 said:
Well, if you read back through our conversation, it’s pretty easy to tell at which point it went south. I think the ha ha lol comment about MJ’s movie career that never happened was a bit insensitive and out of place if you’re interested in a nice and polite discussion.

I couldn't possibly see what was insensitive about that. A world class singer isn't automatically a world class actor either and vice versa. I'm sure he realized this himself at one point and that's why it never took off.
 
It's a good thing that MJ didn't get to become a full time actor, because he was a very average actor.

No, no, no, I strongly disagree! He acted way too little to conclude he was average or otherwise, but I honestly think he had potentials and it would have been great to be able to find it out. He/we certainly got nothing to lose by trying it, at best he could turn out to be phenomenal, at worst we would have some cheesy stuff to watch on lazy afternoons. :D
 
No, no, no, I strongly disagree! He acted way too little to conclude he was average or otherwise, but I honestly think he had potentials and it would have been great to be able to find it out. He/we certainly got nothing to lose by trying it, at best he could turn out to be phenomenal, at worst we would have some cheesy stuff to watch on lazy afternoons. :D

We basically got the cheesy lazy afternoon films with the wiz and moonwalker imo
But it's true we don't really have a clue if he could have done better.
 
we basically got the cheesy lazy afternoon films with the wiz and moonwalker imo
but it's true we don't really have a clue if he could have done better.

NOOOOOO. :girl_tantrum: Moonwalker is brilliant, even though we can't be quite sure whether it's a film, but whatever it is, it's pure genius and unique (so much that not even its genre can be classified, haha), and The Wiz is an underappreciated gem, with a strange, urban, alienated ambience, ahead of its time.
 
No, no, no, I strongly disagree! He acted way too little to conclude he was average or otherwise, but I honestly think he had potentials and it would have been great to be able to find it out. He/we certainly got nothing to lose by trying it, at best he could turn out to be phenomenal, at worst we would have some cheesy stuff to watch on lazy afternoons. :D

I think MJ did some good acting performances, like his performance in the Wiz or his performance as the Mayor in Ghosts, but I think there were some absolutely stinkers like his acting in Moonwalk and the Bad music video, which was really cringe. All in all, I think Michael was an average actor, and his talent definitely lied in the field of music and not acting.
 
ozemouze;4289140 said:
No, no, no, I strongly disagree! He acted way too little to conclude he was average or otherwise, but I honestly think he had potentials and it would have been great to be able to find it out. He/we certainly got nothing to lose by trying it, at best he could turn out to be phenomenal, at worst we would have some cheesy stuff to watch on lazy afternoons. :D

Exactly. His potential can easily be seen in his Ghosts and Bad short films, for example.

And Captain EO or Moonwalker were popcorn movies, I don’t think it’s fair to assess MJ’s acting capabilities based on those. :D

That said, I’m currently completely obsessed with everything Moonwalker. It’s just the best thing to watch during lockdown. The whole escapism that MJ always talked about totally does its thing there. :D
 
I actually liked his acting in thriller. He had that innocence in his conversations with Ola Ray which turned the werewolf scenes into something more sinister. Again at the end in the house he is so charming and relaxing and reassuring but when he turns around you see the most creepy eyes. Damn that was scary when I was a kid.
 
ScreenOrigami;4289145 said:
Exactly. His potential can easily be seen in his Ghosts and Bad short films, for example.

And Captain EO or Moonwalker were popcorn movies, I don’t think it’s fair to assess MJ’s acting capabilities based on those. :D

That said, I’m currently completely obsessed with everything Moonwalker. It’s just the best thing to watch during lockdown. The whole escapism that MJ always talked about totally does its thing there. :D

Moonwalker is like a dream where nothing ever makes sense you just go with the flow wherever your crazy sleepy imagination takes you. I enjoy it mostly for the smooth criminal and speed demon sections.
 
JichaelMackson;4289113 said:
As is well known MJ intended the bad tour as his final tour yet he it's also well known that he felt at home on stage. He was born to be on stage and perform so why did he want the bad tour to be his final tour?

I think Michael once explained he loves to perform, but doesn’t like to tour. Touring means being away from home for months, living in hotels. He didn’t like that aspect of touring. He did feel home on stage though.
 
Moonwalker is like a dream where nothing ever makes sense you just go with the flow wherever your crazy sleepy imagination takes you.

Yep! Accurate and poetic description! That's exactly what makes it great! :D

The whole escapism that MJ always talked about totally does its thing there.

He really did get the concept, in its most valuable sense.
 
Piek;4289149 said:
I think Michael once explained he loves to perform, but doesn’t like to tour. Touring means being away from home for months, living in hotels. He didn’t like that aspect of touring. He did feel home on stage though.

hmm yes, this makes a lot of sense, I should have thought of that :)
 
JichaelMackson;4289148 said:
Moonwalker is like a dream where nothing ever makes sense you just go with the flow wherever your crazy sleepy imagination takes you. I enjoy it mostly for the smooth criminal and speed demon sections.

ozemouze;4289150 said:
Yep! Accurate and poetic description! That's exactly what makes it great! :D


I agree. :)

Maybe I’m reading too much into it or I’m overthinking it because I’ve watched it so often recently, but for me, Moonwalker isn’t really that random. We see MJ going wild with all the things he can do on a movie set, and the whole thing is bookended by his concert performances. So basically he’s breaking out of his daily routine on stage to experiment with the possibilities of film. From claymation over film noir to tranformers – exploring all the possibilities of the dream factory. So, random and not random at the same time. To me, it makes a lot of sense, actually, in the context of where MJ was at, at the time.
 
ScreenOrigami;4289126 said:
Newsflash: You don’t get to decide other people’s choices. :)
Why are you so passive aggressive? Chill.

Piek;4289149 said:
I think Michael once explained he loves to perform, but doesn’t like to tour. Touring means being away from home for months, living in hotels. He didn’t like that aspect of touring. He did feel home on stage though.
Yeah, touring can be an ordeal. Physically and mentally. He talks a bit about why he doesn't like to tour in this clip:

[video=youtube;dLJ8eGSJ-Ks]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLJ8eGSJ-Ks[/video]
 
We have moved on with the conversation already. ;)

I don't care. I'm a moderator and that kind of antagonistic behaviour is against board policy, so stop doing it.

And that goes for everyone else too. I'm tired of the bickering.
 
I agree with the OP about his tours after Bad.

I know he got older, lupus, voice issues, mental health etc are all contributing factors but, there is absolutely no excuse for miming. He even had the backing vocalists, Moffet and Batten mime on the History tour. I find that totally unacceptable and one could see that as cheating an audience.

His live singing with The Jacksons at MSG in 2001 and the real vocals on This Is It show he could still do it
 
Like people in the thread have already said, one of the main factors is probably that the record companies wanted him to tour to promote his album. In the man’s own words, he didn’t like to do it because of how it affects his health.

During Dangerous Tour 1993 he became so addicted to painkillers that he had to cancel the final dates of the tour and go into rehab. I’ve read that during the HIStory tour was when he first started taking propofol to sleep. Touring was not good for him even though he was so good at performing.

MOR316;4289168 said:
I agree with the OP about his tours after Bad.

I know he got older, lupus, voice issues, mental health etc are all contributing factors but, there is absolutely no excuse for miming. He even had the backing vocalists, Moffet and Batten mime on the History tour. I find that totally unacceptable and one could see that as cheating an audience.

His live singing with The Jacksons at MSG in 2001 and the real vocals on This Is It show he could still do it

I know the backing vocalists mimed, but I was under the impression that Batten and Sugarfoot were performing live at least 99% of the time? I don’t think the audience felt cheated because they still saw the greatest entertainer in the world do what he does best. The vocals may be mimed 95% of the time but the band is live and the dancing can not be faked.
 
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