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Thread: Things That You Believe Weren't Necessary/Didn't Add Value to MJ's Performances

   
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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna View Post
    Michael puts his arms out and has the people surrounding him come up and touch/hug him like he's their saviour, with those fake amazement/relief expressions, all while wearing white and backlit. Making himself out to look like a saviour is not "spiritual" it is messianic.
    I already found this ridiculous when I was a kid myself.
    Compare this with the bad tour where he just invited kids on stage to dance together, it's much more fun and loose and simply sympathetic.

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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Getting hugged and smothered on stage during YANA while continuing lip synching. Very embarrassing imo
    The more I think about HIStory tour , the more I hate it, don't hate me for it.

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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby34 View Post
    All this stuff is what makes his shows fun. I know it is all silly, but they add an element to the concert that other artists don't.

    He can just come out and perform songs, but to me I enjoy these events happening during the concerts.

    Remember that before youtube, concerts were once in a lifetime in person experiences. Michael's intent was not for people to be able to watch him do these "routines" at multiple locations. This was supposed to be an in person fun part of the show.
    Thank You.



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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    Jarvis or whatever his name was, the dude who exposed his butt that day, didn’t seem to be educated on these matters.
    I wouldn't rule out he was just drunk that night, the critics of course loved his little "performance" and tried to make it into something more profound.

    Quote Originally Posted by terrell View Post
    I see no problem with any of it. Remember not everyone is able to see a MJ show twice. Also, when he did "she is out of my life", he use to sit on the edge of the stage but he could not later. He would get pulled off.
    That's a good point. After some point he became way too successful and had to choose between doing shows in arenas and perform to a wide audience all around the world, or in smaller, more intimate environment where he could be spontaneous but more people would have been excluded then those who could attend. He chose the first option and even though it's a pity we don't really have that latter kind of show I'm sure there's also a lot of fans who are grateful for the opportunity to be able to see him perform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby34 View Post
    All this stuff is what makes his shows fun. I know it is all silly, but they add an element to the concert that other artists don't.
    Another good point. Some things can be seen as silly/not convincing on record which actually works really well and have a totally different effect during the show when you're in the audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by JichaelMackson View Post
    I already found this ridiculous when I was a kid myself.
    Compare this with the bad tour where he just invited kids on stage to dance together, it's much more fun and loose and simply sympathetic.
    It's perfectly fine to not like the performance, but it shouldn't be taken out of its cultural context either:

    Quote Originally Posted by terrell View Post
    That kind of thing is done in many black churches.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    I mostly know rock shows, so for example Iron Maiden always bring their huge mascot monster Eddie in one form or another, and Alice Cooper has a real horror show going on, complete with guillotines and stuff.
    Sounds like fun.
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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by ozemouze View Post
    Sounds like fun.
    It is! Here’s an amateur recording. So, yeah, I’d say over-the-top theatrical performances with a dash of magic tricks sprinkled in are not exclusive to MJ.



    I’m also just posting this video as an example because someone said they don’t have anything to compare MJ’s stage shows to. I’m not intending to divert the thread. We’ll be right back on topic!

    At the end of the day, those kind of gimmicks wear off after a while, so I agree it’s not something you’d necessarily want to see for 10 shows in a row, but as someone has pointed out, usually you’d go and see one show and then that’s it. Or, as in Alice Cooper’s show, the gimmick sticks and his fans expect him to do it on every tour since the early 1970’s. As far as I know, Alice was the first to incorporate magic tricks into his stage shows.

    Nowadays, in the YouTube age, we have the luxury to watch all those concerts over and over, and particularly with the HIStory tour I can see why people don’t enjoy some elements of the performance so much anymore after they’ve seen them in 10 different shows. But that’s just not how they were intended to be watched when they were created. Instead, you’d probably go home after that one show in disbelief that he really brought a giant tank on stage for that one song. So, I think we have to keep the context in mind when we talk about these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozemouze View Post
    I wouldn't rule out he was just drunk that night, the critics of course loved his little "performance" and tried to make it into something more profound.
    Yup. No doubt he wouldn’t have pulled it off if he hadn’t been drunk.
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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    And if you zoom out and look at the whole stage act at the Brits, it essentially looks like a living painting of an apocalyptic scenario. Just as if a painting in a museum came to life. Personally, I like that whole performance a lot. There’s a version on YouTube where they cut out the butt-dude, so that’s actually nice to watch.
    Wow, thanks for pointing it out! I love these kind of things, I even attended an iconography class at the Uni, so I'm sort of embarrassed I didn't notice. I guess I tend to avoid the performance because of the Jarvis dude :/, but now that we have a butt-dude free version (clever idea! ) I'll search for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    Or, as in Alice Cooper’s show, the gimmick sticks and his fans expect him to do it on every tour since the early 1970’s.
    Those screams (I guess it came from the audience as well, not just from the performers). Now this seems typically that kind of thing that can really work in the middle of a concert, but might look silly on record. But even on record it's obvious the audience is in for the game and plays along with it. Personally it made me want to attend an Alice Cooper concert, it must be fun and great mood.
    Last edited by ozemouze; 07-05-2020 at 09:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by ozemouze View Post
    Wow, thanks for pointing it out! I love these kind of things, I even attended an iconography class at the Uni, so I'm sort of embarrassed I didn't notice. I guess I tend to avoid the performance because of the Jarvis dude :/, but now that we have a butt-dude free version (clever idea! ) I'll search for that.
    I think the butt-dude free version is just the official broadcast that went on air a couple of days after the event. So they had time to edit him out.
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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by JichaelMackson View Post
    I already found this ridiculous when I was a kid myself.
    Compare this with the bad tour where he just invited kids on stage to dance together, it's much more fun and loose and simply sympathetic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anna View Post
    Michael puts his arms out and has the people surrounding him come up and touch/hug him like he's their savior, with those fake amazement/relief expressions, all while wearing white and backlit. Making himself out to look like a savior is not "spiritual" it is messianic.
    Okay i saw the performances on youtube. yeah that was pretty mess up. I understand Michael was spiritual. but that was too much. this probably why he have so many crazy fans see him as a angel. it was nice but way too much.




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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by JichaelMackson View Post
    Compare this with the bad tour where he just invited kids on stage to dance together, it's much more fun and loose and simply sympathetic.
    I agree. that would of been a best better choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by NatureCriminal7896 View Post
    Okay i saw the performances on youtube. yeah that was pretty mess up. I understand Michael was spiritual. but that was too much. this probably why he have so many crazy fans see him as a angel. it was nice but way too much.

    MITM was more spiritual and better performance then this. sorry Michael I love you but that, that was too much.



    a female with major depression,generalized anxiety,behavioral and emotional disorder,ocd mild retardation, and learning disability. i'm not contagious but my smile is.

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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    About this Earth Song "foul-up," I'll just leave this text here, from the book "Earth Song: Inside Michael Jackson's Magnum Opus," by Joseph Vogel:

    Because of the religious symbolism and the passionate response of the crowd (audience members are often shown sobbing), perhaps the most common criticism associated with “Earth Song” was that Jackson, or the song (or both), were “messianic.” This label gained more currency after a performance at the 1996 BRIT Awards in which Pulp singer, Jarvis Cocker, stormed the stage to protest what he perceived as Jackson’s “offensive” Christ-like portrayal.

    This reading of Jackson’s performance(s)—which has been recycled by numerous journalists and critics—is staggeringly literal-minded. There is no question Jackson used iconic messianic gestures in his performances. What isn’t taken into consideration, however, is how, as a dancer/performance artist, his body acted as his canvas. He used specific gestures and symbolism to communicate meaning and express emotion. Would a critic claim Michelangelo is “messianic” and “narcissistic” for painting Jesus on the cross? What is far more interesting is considering how Jackson is deploying such symbols and gestures.

    “When Jackson embodies a particular archetypal stance,” notes Constance Pierce, “his physical body transfigures into a kind of symbolic, elegant calligraphy wherein the Divine may channel gestures of explosive emotion or intimate compassion. The artist becomes shamanic, taking on our massive cumulative “shadow” and sweeping it whole into the light.

    Jackson, then, uses messianic gestures, not because he thinks he is the messiah, but because of what such symbols can express and communicate. It is not about him personally, but how his body can translate the emotions of the song.

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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna View Post
    Michael puts his arms out and has the people surrounding him come up and touch/hug him like he's their saviour, with those fake amazement/relief expressions, all while wearing white and backlit. Making himself out to look like a saviour is not "spiritual" it is messianic.
    It's embarrassing is what it is.

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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by M.J. Content View Post
    About this Earth Song "foul-up," I'll just leave this text here, from the book "Earth Song: Inside Michael Jackson's Magnum Opus," by Joseph Vogel:

    Because of the religious symbolism and the passionate response of the crowd (audience members are often shown sobbing), perhaps the most common criticism associated with “Earth Song” was that Jackson, or the song (or both), were “messianic.” This label gained more currency after a performance at the 1996 BRIT Awards in which Pulp singer, Jarvis Cocker, stormed the stage to protest what he perceived as Jackson’s “offensive” Christ-like portrayal.

    This reading of Jackson’s performance(s)—which has been recycled by numerous journalists and critics—is staggeringly literal-minded. There is no question Jackson used iconic messianic gestures in his performances. What isn’t taken into consideration, however, is how, as a dancer/performance artist, his body acted as his canvas. He used specific gestures and symbolism to communicate meaning and express emotion. Would a critic claim Michelangelo is “messianic” and “narcissistic” for painting Jesus on the cross? What is far more interesting is considering how Jackson is deploying such symbols and gestures.

    “When Jackson embodies a particular archetypal stance,” notes Constance Pierce, “his physical body transfigures into a kind of symbolic, elegant calligraphy wherein the Divine may channel gestures of explosive emotion or intimate compassion. The artist becomes shamanic, taking on our massive cumulative “shadow” and sweeping it whole into the light.

    Jackson, then, uses messianic gestures, not because he thinks he is the messiah, but because of what such symbols can express and communicate. It is not about him personally, but how his body can translate the emotions of the song.
    This. It’s a theatrical performance, and that needs to be taken into account when talking about it. To claim MJ was likening himself to Jesus or something like that is to completely misrepresent him as a person.
    Last edited by ScreenOrigami; 07-05-2020 at 10:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Snek View Post
    Also the people that say he cried at the end of the song because Brad messed up, when in actuality he always cried at the end of the song.
    The one that annoys me most about that are the people who insist MJ yells "job gone" at Brad, even though it's 1 of about a 1000 times that he sang "doggone" during live shows.

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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    - The excessive length of "Workin' Day And Night" and "Shake Your Body" in every tour he performed those songs

    - Performing the "Off The Wall medley" during the HIStory Tour with a pre-recorded voice from almost 20 years before

    - Those useless giant speakers at the end of "Black Or White" during the HIStory Tour

    - The fake cry during "SOOML" or "I'll Be There"

    - The tent in the middle of the stage during the 2nd leg of the Bad Tour (who the hell thought that it was a great idea?)

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    Default Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

    Quote Originally Posted by M.J. Content View Post
    About this Earth Song "foul-up," I'll just leave this text here, from the book "Earth Song: Inside Michael Jackson's Magnum Opus," by Joseph Vogel:

    Because of the religious symbolism and the passionate response of the crowd (audience members are often shown sobbing), perhaps the most common criticism associated with “Earth Song” was that Jackson, or the song (or both), were “messianic.” This label gained more currency after a performance at the 1996 BRIT Awards in which Pulp singer, Jarvis Cocker, stormed the stage to protest what he perceived as Jackson’s “offensive” Christ-like portrayal.

    This reading of Jackson’s performance(s)—which has been recycled by numerous journalists and critics—is staggeringly literal-minded. There is no question Jackson used iconic messianic gestures in his performances. What isn’t taken into consideration, however, is how, as a dancer/performance artist, his body acted as his canvas. He used specific gestures and symbolism to communicate meaning and express emotion. Would a critic claim Michelangelo is “messianic” and “narcissistic” for painting Jesus on the cross? What is far more interesting is considering how Jackson is deploying such symbols and gestures.

    “When Jackson embodies a particular archetypal stance,” notes Constance Pierce, “his physical body transfigures into a kind of symbolic, elegant calligraphy wherein the Divine may channel gestures of explosive emotion or intimate compassion. The artist becomes shamanic, taking on our massive cumulative “shadow” and sweeping it whole into the light.

    Jackson, then, uses messianic gestures, not because he thinks he is the messiah, but because of what such symbols can express and communicate. It is not about him personally, but how his body can translate the emotions of the song.
    You can't compare someone painting a picture of literal Jesus to what Michael did. The fact they're even trying to use that as a justification is hilarious. Michael made himself out to be a saviour and it was pure cringe. It's the same uncomfortable megalomania vibe as the HIStory promo and having paintings done of himself as a king, etc.


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