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Thread: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

   
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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    Quote Originally Posted by analogue View Post
    I'm gonna say something which I know many will consider to be blasphemy because lots of fans love the performance of this song. But I honestly wouldn't have minded if Michael replaced Human Nature with Liberian Girl on the BAD Tour.
    I kind of agree with you. while human nature was one of Michael favorite songs (and mines too.) I think he should of at least dropped a few songs older songs and more BAD songs. he could of at least kept a few older songs. it was the BAD tour after all.



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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    Quote Originally Posted by analogue View Post
    I'm gonna say something which I know many will consider to be blasphemy because lots of fans love the performance of this song. But I honestly wouldn't have minded if Michael replaced Human Nature with Liberian Girl on the BAD Tour.
    Oof, that hit hard

    Quote Originally Posted by analogue View Post
    Because of the lack of songs from that album at the 1987 shows I sometimes forget that those are even BAD Tour shows. The 87 shows feel more like a warm up to the real BAD Tour.
    Makes sense, but I still enjoy some remarkable 87 shows, like Tokyo (first performances of some songs like Bad and Thriller, and Black and Red shirts) and Brisbane (different outfits and Stevie Wonder In Bad)

    Quote Originally Posted by analogue View Post
    I just wanna say
    Triumph Tour > Victory Tour.
    Gonna have to agree. As much as I like watching Victory Tour shows, even if they are a little scant in availability, Triumph Tour is so much more superior in terms of energy, vocals, and overall atmosphere on stage. I could just perceive the raw energy and resolve in Michael that shined on the Triumph Tour, brighter than on the Victory Tour, as sad as that is to say. I just wish a new Triumph Tour concert would manifest itself on the net already, at an expense or none whatsoever!

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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    Quote Originally Posted by analogue View Post
    I'm gonna say something which I know many will consider to be blasphemy because lots of fans love the performance of this song. But I honestly wouldn't have minded if Michael replaced Human Nature with Liberian Girl on the BAD Tour.
    Interesting take. I'd rather him replace She's Out Of My Life with Liberian Girl.

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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Themidwestcowboy View Post
    I'd rather him replace She's Out Of My Life with Liberian Girl.
    I agree with you with this one. I don't like sofml. great idea.



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    Default videos

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Let’s be honest about that: the only two talented siblings from the Jackson family are Michael Jackson and his sister Janet Jackson.
    Can they sing and play bass at the same time? That is a hard thing to do.

    You picked the 2 known for dancing, which has nothing to do with recorded music. Neither does music videos. Would Janet's music be as popular without videos or Jam & Lewis. Her records without them did not do as well like the one produced by Jermaine Dupri or Dream Street. Janet records would not have sold as well if she came out in the 1960s or 1970s. Janet benefited from music videos becoming popular in the 1980s. So did others like Madonna, Paula Abdul, & the glam metal bands. Milli Vanilli is proof of the power of MTV & music videos. Rob & Fab sold multi-platinum in the USA and did not sing a note on their album. They won a Grammy too. Video killed the radio star.


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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Let’s be honest about that: the only two talented siblings from the Jackson family are Michael Jackson and his sister Janet Jackson.
    Just because someone isn't a musical genius (like Michael Jackson) doesn't mean that he isn't musically talented.

    The brothers and sisters weren't on Michael's level, obviously. No one is! However, the Jackson brothers could play instruments quite well (which by the way, you need talent for) and they had pretty good singing voices (they could harmonize nicely).

    They also co-wrote some of The Jacksons biggest hits (Jackie wrote Can You Feel It with Michael and Torture and Randy wrote Lovely One and Shake Your Body with Michael)

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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    Quote Originally Posted by dethorro View Post
    They also co-wrote some of The Jacksons biggest hits (Jackie wrote Can You Feel It with Michael and Torture and Randy wrote Lovely One and Shake Your Body with Michael)
    The brothers and only the brothers wrote all of the songs on Destiny and Triumph, with the exception of Blame It On The Boogie and Everybody.

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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
    The brothers and only the brothers wrote all of the songs on Destiny and Triumph, with the exception of Blame It On The Boogie and Everybody.
    Correct. How can anybody say that they aren't talented?

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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    What's with this BS that the only talented siblings were Michael and Janet? First of all, Janet was only a great dancer. She isn't and was never a great singer. She was also heavily reliant on Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis for the songwriting and production of her songs. I didn't see her play any instruments either. In contrast, the brothers wrote their own songs starting from Destiny and played instruments. Jermaine, Marlon, Jackie & Randy were all better singers than Janet. So to make it seem like Janet was on Michael's level and so much better than the brothers is complete nonsense.

    Jermaine, Randy & Tito were all better than Michael at playing instruments and it takes talent to play instruments. Talent isn't just about how well you can moonwalk or how high notes you can hit. I know all the arrogant and hateful Michael fans will attack me for this, but I don't care.

    I don't care if people don't like the brothers. I am not the biggest fan of their music either, but to say that they are untalented is complete bullshit and I'm not accepting that.

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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    Quote Originally Posted by dethorro View Post
    Correct. How can anybody say that they aren't talented?
    A lot of Michael fans are arrogant and think that Michael was the only talented one in the family. All of Michael fans get a bad rep because of some of these crazy Michael fans.

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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    I's probably the most musically talented family in the world. You can clearly see they are talented in the Hayvenhurst demos, for example working day and night consist of only family members creating the backbone of a world class funk song. Tito, Jermaine, Randy are as good as anyone on their instrument, they can all sing, they can all write, they are versatile. They are touring now without Michael which means they know how to perform and play music. The 3 sisters all had varying success as singers. They have been living and breathing music since they were kids, they know nothing else but instruments, recording studios, performing, singing. Young Michael grew up in the studio looking at masters as Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye, Janet grew up looking at her brothers writing material in the home studio. You can hear her in some of the demo's.

    It's incredibly disrespectful to call them untalented. When they all were on the same page creating Destiny and Triumph they were absolute world class song crafters, all of them together as a unit.
    In a way I always was sad that Thriller became so big, if it didn't happen, the brothers would probably continue recording and touring together and belting out albums every other year. Because of thriller's success MJ became anxious which resulted in only an album every 5 years or so.
    Last edited by JichaelMackson; 25-05-2020 at 04:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite Line View Post
    What's with this BS that the only talented siblings were Michael and Janet? First of all, Janet was only a great dancer. She isn't and was never a great singer. She was also heavily reliant on Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis for the songwriting and production of her songs. I didn't see her play any instruments either. In contrast, the brothers wrote their own songs starting from Destiny and played instruments. Jermaine, Marlon, Jackie & Randy were all better singers than Janet. So to make it seem like Janet was on Michael's level and so much better than the brothers is complete nonsense.

    Jermaine, Randy & Tito were all better than Michael at playing instruments and it takes talent to play instruments. Talent isn't just about how well you can moonwalk or how high notes you can hit. I know all the arrogant and hateful Michael fans will attack me for this, but I don't care.

    I don't care if people don't like the brothers. I am not the biggest fan of their music either, but to say that they are untalented is complete bullshit and I'm not accepting that.
    My friend, I agree with you on most of your points except for this one. You're diminishing MJ's talent to only moonwalking or hitting high notes as an argument which is wrong because what is implied here that MJ was only considered talented because he could Moonwalk or hit high notes. We all know that is not the truth.

    For the other part of the argument I agree with you. All the brothers were talented. They knew how to play instruments, write songs and dance. To suggest that they weren't talented would be insane in my book.

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    Default sales

    Quote Originally Posted by dethorro View Post
    Correct. How can anybody say that they aren't talented?
    Some people here seem to think sales & popularity equals talent, like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Without him, they could not have achieved anything because they were untalented, and the ‘2300 Jackson Street’ album (1989) is one proof for that.

    That album (without Michael Jackson’s involvement) went totally unnoticed, and its poor success even made the Epic label end the contract with the band.
    Milli Vanilli's Girl You Know It's True album sold more than any individual album by The Jacksons or Jackson 5. So by that kind of logic that means Rob & Fab are more talented than any member of The Jacksons. Most of the leads on their songs are by Mike. Drake has more hits on the Hot 100 than any other act. So he is more talented than everybody else who made recordings. 2300 had 2 Top 10 hits on the R&B charts. So it did have some success. Some of the singles The Jacksons had with Mike did not reach the pop Top 10, because they were not promoted to pop radio. Something like Triumph came out after the disco backlash and the baseball game riot when some pop radio stations stopped playing R&B acts because it was considered disco in the early 1980s. Black artists are often considered R&B by default in the USA even if their music is not actually R&B. Rolling Stone magazine would not put Mike on the cover during that period after the mainstream success of Off The Wall and it was mostly nominated in R&B categories at the award shows. The mainstream music media gave more attention to rock and maybe pop artists. David Bowie even asked MTV why they did not show many black artists. Early MTV was basically showing videos by acts on Top 40 and there wasn't that many black artists/songs on pop radio at the time.

    I know some people think that if a record is not a mainstream Top 40 radio hit (code for a lotta white people liking/buying it) then it isn't popular or is a flop. That is also why a movies/TV with a majority black cast are labeled "black movies", "black TV shows", or "blaxploitation". But there are none called "white movies", because white is considered the default. People made a big deal about the Black Panther movie being a success and was called the first black superhero movie. But there was Meteor Man in the mid-1990s, but it did not cross over to mainstream audiences. There's a reason networks like BET & Telemundo exist, because the mainstream doesn't do as much promotion on non-white entertainment. The 2300 album didn't sell that well because Epic did not do a lot of promotion on it, and it was mostly promoted to R&B radio (code for primarily black audience). Mainstream Top 40 will promote a white artist doing R&B related music over a black one (Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Bee Gees, Hall & Oates, Average White Band, Wham!/George Michael, Phil Collins, Madonna, New Kids On The Block, KC & The Sunshine Band, Justin Timberlake, Michael Bolton, Adele, Doobie Brothers, etc). Black performers had to "crossover" to the mainstream to get the bigger sales and media recognition. Most didn't and were mostly popular to the black audience (Teddy Pendergrass, Stephanie Mills, Tyrone Davis, Johnnie Taylor, Cameo, Gap Band, Lakeside, etc).

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    Default Re: Lack of songs from the BAD album at the 1987 shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Themidwestcowboy View Post
    My friend, I agree with you on most of your points except for this one. You're diminishing MJ's talent to only moonwalking or hitting high notes as an argument which is wrong because what is implied here that MJ was only considered talented because he could Moonwalk or hit high notes. We all know that is not the truth.

    For the other part of the argument I agree with you. All the brothers were talented. They knew how to play instruments, write songs and dance. To suggest that they weren't talented would be insane in my book.
    I'm sorry but that wasn't my intention. I wasn't trying to say Michael could only moonwalk and hit high notes.

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    Default Re: videos

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    The Jacksons worked very well as a band for years because of Michael Jackson.
    It was more than that, watch a J5 concert (e.g. Goin' Back to Indiana): great shows full of energy and every member contributed to the experience. Sure, MJ always stood out to some extent (that's not something unusual, many bands have front men), but the brothers got great chemistry and completed each other's performances. It looked like they enjoyed working together and boosted each other's creativity at the time (within the limits of Motown's control).

    By the time they finally got full creative control MJ started to establish a league on his own and with very different ideas, so the collaboration was about to stop at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Without him, they could not have achieved anything because they were untalented, and the ‘2300 Jackson Street’ album (1989) is one proof for that.
    You mix up quality with success but they won't always go hand in hand. The brothers are "less talented" only compared to MJ, not to their musical peers in general, and that's an unfair situation without being their fault (or MJ's for that matter). After MJ's solo success they were outshined by him, in that regard their surname only hindered their carriers ironically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite Line View Post
    First of all, Janet was only a great dancer. She isn't and was never a great singer. She was also heavily reliant on Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis for the songwriting and production of her songs. I didn't see her play any instruments either. In contrast, the brothers wrote their own songs starting from Destiny and played instruments.
    But there are many people who can sing well and play instruments, that in itself isn't enough to stand out. There must be some plus unique quality, message, vision, etc and yes, also luck. These things all worked for Janet. Yes, it was a lucky turning point for her to meet Jimmy & Terry, but it was her material and goal to achieve (she had a complex vision while T&J were the instruments in realizing it). Yes, she's not the best singer around, but!...T&J's wrote the songs for her range (I think it was intentional) so as a result it was still Janet who could sing these songs the best, as they were hers in every sense. Yes, she benefited from music videos and choreography, but that's not a bad thing - these are other types of art forms. So I can actually understand why she had more impact on a wider audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite Line View Post
    Reading some of the comments by some MJ fans, it gives me the impression that you guys have horrible relationships with your families.
    That was uncalled-for.
    Last edited by ozemouze; 25-05-2020 at 07:27 PM.
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