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Thread: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

   
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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galactus123 View Post
    Some of the short films were edited in the Vision box set too.
    I find it hard to place a 4 minute music video - by design for television - in the same bracket as a 90 minute feature film designed for cinemas. It doesn't massively bother me if a different image is seen over the music for a split second. But removing a scene (shortening its runtime) or removing important dialogue from a movie does. That said, Michael Jackson videos sometimes found themselves in the space between video and film, and when MTV used to air the Bad long form version certain scenes were indeed cut. It would definitely bother me if there were scenes from these long form videos cut on Vision.

    However, I did think Vision gave us the fullest version of Bad yet...including the original credits and the reprise of Bad with the Dance Extended Mix adlibs and instrumentation. Out of curiousity, what specifically is cut on Vision?

    DuranDuran, thanks for the informative post but it is patently clear why movies and television shows are cut on television. And this clearly will differ from network to network and country to country - and indeed time of the day of broadcast - for a multitude of reasons. But it is mostly irrelevant in a discussion regarding theatrical movies and their subsequent release on physical media.

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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Quote Originally Posted by ozemouze View Post
    I'm mixing the versions released on different DVDs . I thought the non-angel YANA was the original version but I could be wrong. Will You Be There has a quite charming version with scenes inserted from Free Willy, but I don't remember if it was released officially.
    I’m currently building my MJ DVD collection, and it’s really a mess with all those different versions, especially since there’s no way to tell by looking at the cover which version of the short film is on each DVD.

    I have the Free Willy version on my computer, and it’s without any TV logo, so I suppose it was officially released on a DVD at some point, but it’s really a mess to go through all those disks to find something specific.

    Do we have a list of all versions of each short film and where to find them?
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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    That explains why Michael was so mad when people cut his short films. for example, you rock my world was cut. you rock my world is actually longer that's why there two versions of this video. i don't like it either.



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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
    DuranDuran, thanks for the informative post but it is patently clear why movies and television shows are cut on television. And this clearly will differ from network to network and country to country - and indeed time of the day of broadcast - for a multitude of reasons. But it is mostly irrelevant in a discussion regarding theatrical movies and their subsequent release on physical media.
    I mentioned Fantasia which is a theatrical movie and the Sunflower scenes have never been on home video. They were edited out when the movie was re-released to theaters in the 1960s, long before there was home video. Also what about directors cuts or extended versions which sometimes replace the original version on home video? Some of these alternate versions delete scenes from the original. How about when studios fire directors after the movie is in production or change the movie before it is released? Like all those people talking about the Snyder cut of Justice League. There was a 1990s movie called The Program in which people were copying a certain scene in the movie which resulted in their deaths or being injured, and it was removed before it was released on VHS. On the DVD set of the 1970s TV show Hawaii 5-0, there is an episode about suicide that was left off. Some TV shows have also been edited when they were released on home video. Movies and TV shows have had songs changed on VHS/DVD because the song publisher, artist, or record company wanted too much money. That's not censorship, but it's still changed from the original.

    There's also the case of album covers being changed because people found them offensive like this:



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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    I mentioned Fantasia which is a theatrical movie and the Sunflower scenes have never been on home video. They were edited out when the movie was re-released to theaters in the 1960s, long before there was home video. Also what about directors cuts or extended versions which sometimes replace the original version on home video? Some of these alternate versions delete scenes from the original. How about when studios fire directors after the movie is in production or change the movie before it is released? Like all those people talking about the Snyder cut of Justice League. There was a 1990s movie called The Program in which people were copying a certain scene in the movie which resulted in their deaths or being injured, and it was removed before it was released on VHS. On the DVD set of the 1970s TV show Hawaii 5-0, there is an episode about suicide that was left off. Some TV shows have also been edited when they were released on home video. Movies and TV shows have had songs changed on VHS/DVD because the song publisher, artist, or record company wanted too much money. That's not censorship, but it's still changed from the original.

    There's also the case of album covers being changed because people found them offensive like this:


    An ever better example would be George Lucas’s Star Wars and the countless versions that has been released on home video.

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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    Also what about directors cuts or extended versions which sometimes replace the original version on home video.
    That should be forbidden.

    Seriously though, there are two cases usually:

    - When the original intent was indeed a longer cut, and distributors/censorship shortened it by cutting out important scenes - in this case the extended cut is perfectly justified, moreover the best possible option.

    - And there's when directors just can't let go of useless scenes and want to bundle everything into their film, losing focus and proportion (creative work is just as much about what to include as what to leave out). Or desperately try to "update" their oeuvres or give "meaning" where it isn't needed. Don't believe them if they say "it's art evolving itself", it's just insecurity and proof that directors don't always have the best judgement either.

    While we're at it: if you ever intend to watch Cinema Paradiso, please watch the theatrical cut first (a charming love letter to cinema) versus the director's one (a perfect example of how can added scenes actually take away from the movie).
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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    DuranDuran what does the Moonwalker change have to do with directors cuts or extended cuts of movies? Or album covers? I'm completely lost.

    Are you just summarising things that change?

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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
    DuranDuran what does the Moonwalker change have to do with directors cuts or extended cuts of movies? Or album covers? I'm completely lost.

    Are you just summarising things that change?
    You said Moonwalker was censored. I said society changes and older things might be edited/changed. I then said lots of things are censored like CDs sold at Walmart, comic books in the 1950s, and album covers. The album cover was changed because people complained about it. I also said that entertainment can be censored in the USA because of religious & civil rights groups, like when Jewish groups complained about They Don't Care About Us, so the offensive parts were bleeped out. You didn't understand that. So I don't know what to tell you. If the parts of Smooth Criminal that were edited out are about drugs, then probably people today complained about drug references to children and/or in a movie marketed to kids. If Mr. Big tried to get an adult addicted, it probably wouldn't have been cut. Just like a lot of parents said that Joe Camel was marketing cigarettes to children, so they complained & started petitions. So the character was dropped.

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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    You said Moonwalker was censored. I said society changes and older things might be edited/changed. I then said lots of things are censored like CDs sold at Walmart, comic books in the 1950s, and album covers. The album cover was changed because people complained about it. I also said that entertainment can be censored in the USA because of religious & civil rights groups, like when Jewish groups complained about They Don't Care About Us, so the offensive parts were bleeped out. You didn't understand that. So I don't know what to tell you. If the parts of Smooth Criminal that were edited out are about drugs, then probably people today complained about drug references to children and/or in a movie marketed to kids. If Mr. Big tried to get an adult addicted, it probably wouldn't have been cut. Just like a lot of parents said that Joe Camel was marketing cigarettes to children, so they complained & started petitions. So the character was dropped.
    There's nothing in here about extended cuts of movies or directors cuts.

    I don't recall any discussion on They Don't Care About Us, so I don't think it's fair for you to assume I don't understand why that change was made. Actually it's quite an interesting discussion to have. But then Michael Jackson himself, signing off on a minor lyrical change, after significant media pressure and controversy, is a little different to a decades old movie that absolutely nobody was complaining about or even talking/writing about. And Michael made the TDCAU change mere months after the release of the album, I highly doubt society shifted from 'we are okay with these lyrics' to 'we are no longer okay with these lyrics' in that very short space of time. Actually, if you ask me, I think he was wrong to bow to the pressure, but I completely understand why he did it. Especially in the wake of the Triumph of the Will controversy and how Michael's image was in a 'rebuild' phase. Not to mention how a song isn't considered a work of fiction, necessarily. When a songwriter writes a song and sings it, it is assumed, by and large, to be their voice/their words - not a character in a play. And then we have Michael himself explaining the lyrics, and we have the before and after versions easily available for people to make up their own minds and choose which to listen to (if they are so inclined). For these many reasons it very different to the Moonwalker situation. I feel as though you just want to throw everything into the pot that ever changed in the field of entertainment. The reality is that these examples you cite are all wildly different circumstances on different types of media that are consumed in different ways and in different cultures with different values.

    There are plenty of movies out there, as I said earlier in this thread, that feature children and drugs and other 'controversial' content that are increasingly available on home media whether it be physically or digitally - with the appropriate age restrictions - and nobody is going back en masse and deleting all these scenes quietly. But something you did touch on in your post is definitely relevant here, and that's specifically "for a movie marketed to kids". While I'd say that was the case at the time - and let's all remember millions of children all over the world saw the film on original release and, as far as I'm aware, there was zero controversy over this scene - would a 2010 blu-ray release of this film still be marketing at children? Admittedly the content still has more of a kids appeal than an adults one, there's no getting away from that if we consider it on those levels alone.

    The Moonwalker film was passed in 1988 with a PG restriction by the BBFC (meaning anyone of any age can see it but the parent may decide some content is unsuitable for their child). The Moonwalker film again had its certificate reviewed by the BBFC as late as 2005 and again was passed uncut. What was considered "safe" for children to watch in 1988 was still considered so almost 20 years later albeit with the parent signing off and making that decision for their children. And when Moonwalker appeared quietly on DVD for the first time this was no big event in society - the audience by now was pretty small - and nobody cared or complained about the drug scene. Then in 2010 suddenly everything changed? Despite no one caring about what had been freely available on a modern media for years. They were selling to a small audience, and were overly concerned about a very small fraction of that already small audience getting offended and decided to quietly remove it just in case. Which is just cheap to me. As I asked earlier in the thread, were the filmmakers given the opportunity to make the edits themselves or consulted somehow?

    And hey, the DVD is still in shops. Perhaps all the DVDs have been withdrawn from sale and have been replaced with the 'safely' sanitised version? Has anyone bought it in the last 10 years to confirm? If I was betting I'd say absolutely no change whatsoever has been made to the DVD because nobody cared about this scene in the first place. And I dare say, if the film ever receives an anniversary release or treatment (where any kind of effort or care is made) I would not be in the least bit surprised to see the scene back where it was before.

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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    You said Moonwalker was censored. I said society changes and older things might be edited/changed. I then said lots of things are censored like CDs sold at Walmart, comic books in the 1950s, and album covers. The album cover was changed because people complained about it. I also said that entertainment can be censored in the USA because of religious & civil rights groups, like when Jewish groups complained about They Don't Care About Us, so the offensive parts were bleeped out. You didn't understand that. So I don't know what to tell you. If the parts of Smooth Criminal that were edited out are about drugs, then probably people today complained about drug references to children and/or in a movie marketed to kids. If Mr. Big tried to get an adult addicted, it probably wouldn't have been cut. Just like a lot of parents said that Joe Camel was marketing cigarettes to children, so they complained & started petitions. So the character was dropped.
    The fact that it always happened doesn't make it right or safe from criticism.

    Plus there's a major difference about censoring Joe Camel, a cartoon character (= may appeal to children) smoking (making it look "cool" to kids), so it basically shows smoking in positive light, or if there's a drug reference in e.g. Moonwalker, connected to the bad guy (= not exactly what the kids relate to) and the whole message is clearly about condemning drug use/trading (it's a threat in the film, not something cool).
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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Quote Originally Posted by ozemouze View Post
    The fact that it always happened doesn't make it right or safe from criticism.

    Plus there's a major difference about censoring Joe Camel, a cartoon character (= may appeal to children) smoking (making it look "cool" to kids), so it basically shows smoking in positive light, or if there's a drug reference in e.g. Moonwalker, connected to the bad guy (= not exactly what the kids relate to) and the whole message is clearly about condemning drug use/trading (it's a threat in the film, not something cool).
    Also a great point!

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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    oh my goodness we really gonna fight about this? every place is different and have different rules etc. time has change and not everything was made in the past wouldn't get away today. lol! boy we all have too much time in our hands. please give us a cure for this virus so we all can live life again.



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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Quote Originally Posted by NatureCriminal7896 View Post
    oh my goodness we really gonna fight about this? every place is different and have different rules etc. time has change and not everything was made in the past wouldn't get away today. lol! boy we all have too much time in our hands. please give us a cure for this virus so we all can live life again.
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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    okay i'm gonna leave this thread because people don't get it. it was nice knowing all of you have a blessed day and stay safe.



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    Default Re: Has Moonwalker been released uncut on blu-ray?

    Oh the drama!

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