The Hurt - The Jacksons - Victory album

JichaelMackson

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Michael has writing credits on this song which opens up the question. How likely is the existence of a version with Michael as the lead singer? His falsetto would sound awesome on this song. Michael or no Michael I love the track anyway.

Michael's involvement on the Victory album is not that small when you think of it. 3 songs with writing and composing credits (the hurt, state of shock, be not always), one other duet (torture) and one song featuring ad libs (wait)

This is like The Beatles' white album where every group member has the chance to shine and for me it works. It's a tremendous album imo

Tito Jacksons contribution "we can change the world" is another great one, keeping up with the earlier visited themes of The Jacksons (and later Michael solo)

I love the songs so much in fact that I wouldn't have minded the Victory tour to be full of these songs despite Michael not being the lead singer!
 
Fab 4

This is like The Beatles' white album where every group member has the chance to shine and for me it works.
George & Ringo has at least 1 lead vocal song on every Beatles album (well maybe not Ringo on all of the USA versions of the albums). They weren't writing at first though.
 
Amazing song! BG vocals reminds me of Hollywood Tonight. Classic MJ track. I hope his demo exists in some form as we all know how he composed and wrote music.
 
If the Victory Tour was full of songs from the ‘Victory’ album, that would have made the Victory Tour a disaster.

Let’s face it: the ‘Victory’ album has only two good songs, that is ‘Torture’ and ‘State Of Shock’, which also explains why these two songs had such a big success when they were released as singles.

It was a missed opportunity that the ‘State Of Shock’ single did not come out with an accompanying music video.

All the other songs from that album are immediately forgettable and very mediocre songs (including the third and fourth single, ‘Body’ and ‘Wait’, that both failed completely to chart).

It is highly unlikely that a version of the ‘The Hurt’ song with Michael Jackson as the lead singer exists.

Also, I would prefer Janet Jackson’s cover version of the ‘One More Chance’ song (some years later) to the original version of the song from the ‘Victory’ album.
 
mj_frenzy;4299757 said:
If the Victory Tour was full of songs from the ‘Victory’ album, that would have made the Victory Tour a disaster.

Let’s face it: the ‘Victory’ album has only two good songs, that is ‘Torture’ and ‘State Of Shock’, which also explains why these two songs had such a big success when they were released as singles.

It was a missed opportunity that the ‘State Of Shock’ single did not come out with an accompanying music video.

All the other songs from that album are immediately forgettable and very mediocre songs (including the third and fourth single, ‘Body’ and ‘Wait’, that both failed completely to chart).

It is highly unlikely that a version of the ‘The Hurt’ song with Michael Jackson as the lead singer exists.

Also, I would prefer Janet Jackson’s cover version of the ‘One More Chance’ song (some years later) to the original version of the song from the ‘Victory’ album.


Speak for yourself partner. It might not be my favorite Jacksons album but I like many of the songs from Victory.
 
Wait was not a single. Body was 3rd and final single from the album. I disagree that State of Shock and Torture are only two good songs on the album. State of Shock is obviosly amazing but I don't like Torture at all. In my opinion both The Hurt and One More Chance are much better songs than Torture. Even Wait is better but is stuck in the 80s too much because of its classic 80s synths and instrumentation. The only good thing about Torture is second verse when Michael starts singing.
 
I think it is their best album after Destiny. I totally love the 80s sound on it and it doesn't have a weak point to me. Maybe this feeling is enhanced as it was one of my earliest bought records.
 
I think it is their best album after Destiny. I totally love the 80s sound on it and it doesn't have a weak point to me. Maybe this feeling is enhanced as it was one of my earliest bought records.

You think Victory is better than Triumph?
 
The Hurt is great, but you can feel it's not complete, I don't know how to explain. Wasn't there some posts explaining that the whole LP has been released in a rush and, therefore, songs were not completely finished? I could be wrong though.
 
I totally forgot about this album.... i guess you can say the victory album is the hurt album. i'm okay with old school sounds. to me it give you old school feelings and i love those feelings.
 
You think Victory is better than Triumph?

I tend to listen to it more regularly than to Triumph. It's pretty close overall. I have a great love for all Jacksons albums under Epic. It is the start of the independent adult Michael Jackson in 1976, it is pretty much the real start of his solo career with even more vocals coming from Michael and of course lots of writing credits. The two albums under the wings of Gamble & Huff are delicious as well.

My most played group albums are definitely Destiny, the Jacksons and victory
 
mj_frenzy;4299757 said:
If the Victory Tour was full of songs from the ‘Victory’ album, that would have made the Victory Tour a disaster.

Let’s face it: the ‘Victory’ album has only two good songs, that is ‘Torture’ and ‘State Of Shock’, which also explains why these two songs had such a big success when they were released as singles.

It was a missed opportunity that the ‘State Of Shock’ single did not come out with an accompanying music video.

All the other songs from that album are immediately forgettable and very mediocre songs (including the third and fourth single, ‘Body’ and ‘Wait’, that both failed completely to chart).

It is highly unlikely that a version of the ‘The Hurt’ song with Michael Jackson as the lead singer exists.

Also, I would prefer Janet Jackson’s cover version of the ‘One More Chance’ song (some years later) to the original version of the song from the ‘Victory’ album.

There is a certain arrogance about the way that you post that I just don't like. It is your opinion that Victory only has two good songs. It isn't a fact, just your opinion that many disagree with.

In my opinion, the good songs on Victory are Torture, One More Chance, Be Not Always, Wait, The Hurt and Body. I don't even think State of Shock is good. The Freddie Mercury version would have been good, but Mick Jagger is very average imo and he ruins the song for me. Michael would have been better off doing the song with one of his brothers.

I love Janet's version of One More Chance too but Randy's version is better in my opinion, as he is a better singer.
 
OnirMJ;4299763 said:
Wait was not a single. Body was 3rd and final single from the album.

"Wait" was a single (to some limited extent) in 1985 after "Body" but not released in the US, only UK, Canada and Brazil.
https://www.discogs.com/master/view/160680

The single version sounds a little different to the album version (additional guitar slap bass and some other synths etc):

[video=youtube;gDUdVCyaL1Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDUdVCyaL1Q[/video]

album version:
[video=youtube;7EnOIhNZIeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EnOIhNZIeE[/video]







mj_frenzy;4299757 said:
All the other songs from that album are immediately forgettable and very mediocre songs (including the third and fourth single, ‘Body’ and ‘Wait’, that both failed completely to chart).

Wrong. "Body" chart peaks:

#47 USA Billboard Hot 100
#39 USA Billboard Hot Black Singles
#73 USA Billboard Hot Dance Club Play
#94 UK Top 100
 
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I love The Hurt. Sometimes I get into a zone where I just have to repeat it a couple times. It gives me a total Who Is It vibe (and I wouldn't be surprised if there's something to that). Obviously would love to hear Michael on it, too.
 
michael555;4299787 said:
The Hurt is great, but you can feel it's not complete, I don't know how to explain. Wasn't there some posts explaining that the whole LP has been released in a rush and, therefore, songs were not completely finished? I could be wrong though.

The songs were completely finished and properly mixed when they were included on the ‘Victory’ album.

Then, the plan was the ‘Victory’ album to get its release in March (1984), but the album's release was shelved for some months later and until sales of the ‘Thriller’ album began to decrease.

In other words, the record company did not want to harm the sales of the ‘Thriller’ album while the ‘Thriller’ album was still selling a lot, so the record company delayed intentionally the release of the 'Victory' album.

Eventually, the ‘Victory’ album was released four months later (in July) when sales of the ‘Thriller’ album did begin to fall off.

The delay of the release of the ‘Victory’ album (by four months) was a strictly business move on the part of the record company.
 
mj_frenzy;4299872 said:
The songs were completely finished and properly mixed when they were included on the ‘Victory’ album.

Doesn't have to mean they were entirely happy with the results. The 1985 single version for "Wait" clearly shows that they still saw room for improvement.


mj_frenzy;4299872 said:
Then, the plan was the ‘Victory’ album to get its release in March (1984), but the album's release was shelved for some months later and until sales of the ‘Thriller’ album began to decrease.

The Victory Tour started in July 1984.
So to release the Victory album (basically a low effort bonus release to the "Thriller Tour" - much like the BOTDF album was a low effort bonus release to sell along the 2nd leg of the HIStory tour) in that same month only makes sense.

Where is the info from, that the Victory album was first sheduled for March 1984?
(Just to be sure it's not another thing you got wrong. ;) )
 
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"Wait" was a single (to some limited extent) in 1985 after "Body" but not released in the US, only UK, Canada and Brazil.
https://www.discogs.com/master/view/160680

The single version sounds a little different to the album version (additional guitar slap bass and some other synths etc):


album version:









Wrong. "Body" chart peaks:

#47 USA Billboard Hot 100
#39 USA Billboard Hot Black Singles
#73 USA Billboard Hot Dance Club Play
#94 UK Top 100

Wait is probably my favorite song from Victory. It would have been one of my all time favorite Jacksons songs if MJ sung the lead for sure. This version is awesome. Hadn't heard it before. The synth reminds me of Prince and the Minneapolis sound.
 
I personally prefer the album version of wait. There is more Michael ad libs and the longer a song the better imo
 
I personally prefer the album version of wait. There is more Michael ad libs and the longer a song the better imo

Must disagree here - the only problem I have with Invincible - an album I like a lot - is that many of the songs go on for waaay too long.
 
Must disagree here - the only problem I have with Invincible - an album I like a lot - is that many of the songs go on for waaay too long.

Yes it's not for everyone. But I prefer it over radio length singles. I love long songs, for example the album version of "shake your body", Isaac Hayes' "walk On", The Temptations' "papa was a rolling stone", Curtis mayfield' "move on up" etc
 
Must disagree here - the only problem I have with Invincible - an album I like a lot - is that many of the songs go on for waaay too long.

Tbh, you can say that about a long of MJ songs, starting from Dangerous.
 
Not my favourite Jacksons songs admittedly but it's not a bad song at all. Feels a bit of it's time, like it would have fit perfectly on the Beverly Hills Cop soundtrack from 1984. Michael's adlibs are great, the build up is exciting , it just lacks more Mike for me
 
The French wikipedia page for the Victory album lists these songs as outtakes for the album. Is more known about these songs, question goes for the songs not credited to Michael as well, particularly the Jackie songs as his contribution to the actual album is stellar imo

There Must Be More to Life Than This (avec Freddie Mercury)
Doing Dirty (Michael et Marlon Jackson)
Far Far Away (Michael Jackson)
Power (Jackie Jackson)
Bad Company
Nona (Jackie Jackson)
Born to Love (original des Temptations)
Still in Love with You
Tender
Victory (probably very rough demo from what I read)
Pyramid Girl (demo) (probably early version of Liberian girl)
Buffalo Bill
 
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JichaelMackson;4299952 said:
The French wikipedia page for the Victory album lists these songs as outtakes for the album. Is more known about these songs, question goes for the songs not credited to Michael as well, particularly the Jackie songs as his contribution to the actual album is stellar imo

There Must Be More to Life Than This (avec Freddie Mercury)
Doing Dirty (Michael et Marlon Jackson)
Far Far Away (Michael Jackson)
Power (Jackie Jackson)
Bad Company
Nona (Jackie Jackson)
Born to Love (original des Temptations)
Still in Love with You
Tender
Victory (probably very rough demo from what I read)
Pyramid Girl (demo) (probably early version of Liberian girl)
Buffalo Bill

‘Doing Dirty’ was not written for the ‘Victory’ album, but it was written in late '90s for his ill-fated ‘Decade’ greatest hits album.

‘Doing Dirty’ was indeed written by Michael Jackson and Marlon Jackson.

‘Power’ is an outtake from the ‘Victory’ album, and it was written by Jackie Jackson.

‘Nona’ is another outtake from the ‘Victory’ album, and it was written by Jackie Jackson.

‘Buffalo Bill’ is an outtake from the ‘Victory’ album, then it was re-worked for his ‘BAD’ album but it was not included on the ‘BAD’ album either.

There is another outtake from the ‘Victory’ album called ‘Still In Love With You’ with lead vocals by Randy Jackson.

Michael Jackson recorded with Freddie Mercury three songs: ‘There Must Be More To Life Than This’, ‘State Of Shock’ and ‘Victory’, but they did not manage to finish these three songs.

These three songs are unfinished as confirmed also by Brian May.

Two fans of Michael Jackson have allegedly a cassette with these, three unfinished songs, given to them by Brian May’s mother.

Also, there are contradictory accounts about ‘Pyramid Girl’ (if it is an early version of the ‘Liberian Girl’ song or not), because according to certain accounts ‘Pyramid Girl’ is a totally different song.

Finally, ‘Far, Far Away’ is an unreleased song written by Michael Jackson.
 
‘Doing Dirty’ was written of course in late '80s (not in late ‘90s, as I incorrectly said) for his ill-fated ‘Decade’ greatest hits album.

There is also the ‘Where Do I Stand’ outtake from the ‘Victory’ album, which was written by Marlon Jackson.
 
mj_frenzy;4299989 said:
There is also the ‘Where Do I Stand’ outtake from the ‘Victory’ album, which was written by Marlon Jackson.
This song is on Marlon's 1987 solo album
[video=youtube;B-KvA1phI4E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-KvA1phI4E[/video]
 
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