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Thread: Could the Dangerous Album Have Been Better?

   
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    Default Re: Could the Dangerous Album Have Been Better?

    Trim In The Closet down to about 5 minutes
    Trim Can't Let Her Get Away down to about 3 and a half minutes
    Keep the instrumental part of the Black Or White intro but remove the talking parts.

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    Default Re: Could have the Dangerous album been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    Almost everyone who claims otherwise only did so after his death. That alone tells me all I need to know.
    See, I would be open to this argument if two of the claimants weren't Greg Phillinganes and Brad Buxer.

    Also, none of the claimants have sued the Estate for royalties, attempted to cause any sort of high-profile scandal, or demanded that the credits are legally amended; they've all just mentioned it during interviews and effectively said, "Whatever." Compare that to the men and women who claimed Michael plagiarized "The Girl is Mine" and "Dangerous," both of whom dragged him into court.

    It's no secret that Michael hasn't always been the most honorable person when it comes to credits. Of course, we shouldn't believe any credit dispute at face value, but not all of them are hollow claims.

    For example, listen to the writer's demo of "Heaven Can Wait." It is melodically, structurally, and lyrically indistinguishable from the album version... and yet Michael received co-writer's credit. Meanwhile, Phillinganes created the entire bridge for "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough" from scratch and was only given arrangement credits. How is one okay, but the other isn't?

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    Default Re: Could the Dangerous Album Have Been Better?

    Don't mess with Dangerous. On second thought, I hate Heal the World the song. Mike would have hated me 😄

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    Default Re: Could have the Dangerous album been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysThere View Post
    See, I would be open to this argument if two of the claimants weren't Greg Phillinganes and Brad Buxer.

    Also, none of the claimants have sued the Estate for royalties, attempted to cause any sort of high-profile scandal, or demanded that the credits are legally amended; they've all just mentioned it during interviews and effectively said, "Whatever." Compare that to the men and women who claimed Michael plagiarized "The Girl is Mine" and "Dangerous," both of whom dragged him into court.

    It's no secret that Michael hasn't always been the most honorable person when it comes to credits. Of course, we shouldn't believe any credit dispute at face value, but not all of them are hollow claims.

    For example, listen to the writer's demo of "Heaven Can Wait." It is melodically, structurally, and lyrically indistinguishable from the album version... and yet Michael received co-writer's credit. Meanwhile, Phillinganes created the entire bridge for "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough" from scratch and was only given arrangement credits. How is one okay, but the other isn't?
    Brad Buxer keeps changing his story about the creating/writing process of SIM, first it was, "he randomly played a few chords on piano, Michael liked what he heard and picked it up and developed it" and then it evolved to him (Brad) writing most of the song almost himself. Which one is true? Also, all of these claims started to arise after Michael's death, if he was that bothered by not getting enough credit, why didn't he speak about it before Michael passed away? Why didn't he choose to talk about it with Michael?

    We don't know the reason why Michael changed his mind about not giving writing credits to Greg, he (Michael) seemed dismissive about the subject while talking about it on Mexico deposition though, again Michael is not here to tell his side of the story, a common theme among the claims like these.

    I agree with you about the credits of Invincible.

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    Default Re: Could have the Dangerous album been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikky Dee View Post
    I guess you were sitting next to Michael when he was writing songs, so you'd know this, from a personal perspective??

    He deserves credit for picking a damn song and putting it on his album and blessing it with his voice. That's what he deserves credit for.
    Let me remind you also the ‘Stranger In Moscow’ case, where Brad Buxer co-wrote the song, yet Michael Jackson took sole writing credit on it.

    Another example (in terms of production, now) is the ‘Black Or White’ case, where Michael Jackson only hummed the rhythm melody of the song to his tape recorder and in front of Bill Bottrell.

    Michael Jackson did not even specify which instruments they should use on that song.

    Then he gave the cassette to Bill Bottrell, and days later Bill Bottrell chose the instruments, he played them, and he formed and finished the song.

    Michael Jackson only approved the final result, yet he took co-production credit on that song.

    Another example where Michael Jackson took undue credit is the ‘Morphine’ song, where the album booklet credits him with playing the percussion, drums and guitar.

    But in actual reality, Michael Jackson could not play any instruments at all during his life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    Invincible and Michaels limited lyric WRITING efforts on that album are a different pair of shoes.

    By the time of Invincible Michael had been there, had done it all before and now had two little children to care about.

    During Dangerous he was at the height of his international fame and at the peak of his creativity and worked his ass off to proof himself after leaving Quincy.

    And just for the record:
    The term "production" is often misused, and even Teddy Riley doesn't quite seem to get it in that interview.

    Quincy Jones PRODUCED three albums for Michael, yet he never wrote or played a single note or tweeked one knob for any of the songs.

    That's not what "production" means. It's about deciding who does what, what direction to take, deciding what's good, what has to be done better and saying "that's it" at some point.

    Please proof that Michael - the perfectionist - Jackson did NOT do all of that next to Riley for those songs, so that he would not deserve the co-production credit!

    Said the same person that knowingly helped the Estate forge fake Michael Jackson songs for the "Michael" album and went on national TV to defend their authenticity. All for his own gain and covering his own ass.

    Riley in the same interview about the song Dangerous:

    "Michael came in with the hook, I did the music and then we finalised the song. We used a drum machine, the Akai MPC-60, and a lot of the sounds from that and samples I had on my sample CDs. There's no science to it, I just feel my way through the production. I always feel my way - I never do anything the same."

    Me me me... Totally "forgetting" that he basically only remixed the Bill Botrell demo.

    Teddy Riley operates like a sleazy car salesman. Integrity is optional. So never take his words 1:1.

    Geek-p.s.:
    It doesn't even makes sense what he said about Dangerous and the "drum machine". The Akai MPC's are SAMPLERS. They don't come with any sounds. I know that because I own said MPC 60 and others. Another example that Teddy Riley is full of blah blah blah....
    Production in music is more than that.

    A producer can do one or more of the following things:

    Among others, he can run the soundboard, can arrange and adjust the microphones, can play one or more certain instruments, can tune these instruments, can adjust the effects, can do the mixing, and in some cases can do the mastering.

    Michael Jackson never learned to do the above things, so he always needed a producer next to him during the sessions (such as, Teddy Riley for the new jack swing songs of the ‘Dangerous’ album).

    And the new jack swing genre was a genre that Teddy Riley was conversant with, not Michael Jackson.

    Or take the example of the Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, who were the primary instrumentalists for the recording (including, playing instruments like percussion, piano and drums) of Janet Jackson’s ‘Control' album which was released in 1986.

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    Default Re: Could have the Dangerous album been better?

    https://www.recordingconnection.com/...c-producer-do/

    Maybe Michael was insecure. I don't know how true this is of course, but Quincy Jones said he "stole a lot of stuff from other artists without paying them". Which is interesting given what's been said in here.

    As for the Dangerous album, I think WYWTOM, CLHGA and SDMW could easily all go, and then add For All Time somewhere. That song is sublime.


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    Default Re: Could have the Dangerous album been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysThere View Post
    See, I would be open to this argument if two of the claimants weren't Greg Phillinganes and Brad Buxer.

    Also, none of the claimants have sued the Estate for royalties, attempted to cause any sort of high-profile scandal, or demanded that the credits are legally amended; they've all just mentioned it during interviews and effectively said, "Whatever." Compare that to the men and women who claimed Michael plagiarized "The Girl is Mine" and "Dangerous," both of whom dragged him into court.

    It's no secret that Michael hasn't always been the most honorable person when it comes to credits. Of course, we shouldn't believe any credit dispute at face value, but not all of them are hollow claims.

    For example, listen to the writer's demo of "Heaven Can Wait." It is melodically, structurally, and lyrically indistinguishable from the album version... and yet Michael received co-writer's credit. Meanwhile, Phillinganes created the entire bridge for "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough" from scratch and was only given arrangement credits. How is one okay, but the other isn't?
    I really appreciate that these guys are doing those interviews. They do have some interesting stories to tell. The thing is, if someone feels they’ve been treated unfairly, why not bring it up while the person is still alive and sort it out with them? The music business is messy, and with so many people involved in each project, and projects spanning a couple of years, it’s easy to lose track of some details. You bring it up then. Or if you don’t, then don’t bring it up at all. I’m just generally not a fan of one-sided stories where the other side doesn’t have a chance to offer their perspective. That’s all. I’m not saying they made it up.
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    Default Re: Could have the Dangerous album been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna View Post
    Maybe Michael was insecure. I don't know how true this is of course, but Quincy Jones said he "stole a lot of stuff from other artists without paying them". Which is interesting given what's been said in here.
    Quincy better prove those claims or keep his mouth shut. He’s a bitter old man.
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    Default Re: Could have the Dangerous album been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Production in music is more than that.

    A producer can do one or more of the following things:
    ...

    You know, in the studio some producers even make their own coffee. I guess if someone told you that Michael couldn't handle a coffee machine, to you and your upside-down thinking that would mean more proof that he didn't deserve the "co-producer" credit.

    What I described in my last post is the core job of a producer in music. And Michael most likely DID all that. So the credit is deserved.
    If he next to that also writes music, plays instruments, does the job of a sound engineer etc (like some producers especially nowadays do), then that would result in further separate credits.
    Last edited by Electro; 17-08-2020 at 03:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Could the Dangerous Album Have Been Better?

    Btw, for some serious indepth Dangerous album appreciation and new perspectives,
    check out the "Dangerous 25 roundtable" episode of the MJCast. (It's on YouTube).

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    Default Re: Could the Dangerous Album Have Been Better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna View Post
    https://www.recordingconnection.com/...c-producer-do/

    Maybe Michael was insecure. I don't know how true this is of course, but Quincy Jones said he "stole a lot of stuff from other artists without paying them". Which is interesting given what's been said in here.

    As for the Dangerous album, I think WYWTOM, CLHGA and SDMW could easily all go, and then add For All Time somewhere. That song is sublime.
    Quincy has said a lot of stuff. Not sure I’d pay it any attention.

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    Default Re: Could have the Dangerous album been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    2021! I’m ready!
    If it's ever happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson Rules View Post
    BOTDF was also intended for Dangerous. Sad it didn't make the final tracklist
    it was suppose to be for history as well and didn't make it to the first album but the remix one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themidwestcowboy View Post
    The only song I would replace would be gone too soon with Someone put your hand out. Other than that the Dangerous album is a masterpiece.
    i agree. but gone too soon was for his friend who died from aids.
    Last edited by NatureCriminal7896; 17-08-2020 at 02:08 PM.



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    Default Re: Could the Dangerous Album Have Been Better?

    In my opinion the album is prefect and it's not even my favorite album but my mom love it. it is so 90's and "black". if a dangerous ever gets an anniversary release i would put all the unrelease songs on it. including outakes etc.

    also QJ don't realize michael wrote of his songs so he needs stop saying michael stole from artists. he probably was inspires but didn't steal from them. OJ just mad that Michael want it to move on and grow. it happens to all artists i'm not sure why QJ thought Michael was gonna be with him forever. OJ want it that money.

    it's so sad i use think Q was cool now i realize he kind of like the rest MJ backstabbers.



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    Default Re: Could have the Dangerous album been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by NatureCriminal7896 View Post
    If it's ever happens.



    it was suppose to be for history as well and didn't make it to the first album but the remix one.



    i agree. but gone too soon was for his friend who died from aids.
    He could still release the song as a charity song as a standalone single. I adore Gone Too Soon !

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    Default Re: Could have the Dangerous album been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna View Post
    https://www.recordingconnection.com/...c-producer-do/

    Maybe Michael was insecure. I don't know how true this is of course, but Quincy Jones said he "stole a lot of stuff from other artists without paying them". Which is interesting given what's been said in here.

    As for the Dangerous album, I think WYWTOM, CLHGA and SDMW could easily all go, and then add For All Time somewhere. That song is sublime.
    Wasn't a part of this discussion about how MJ supposedly didn't give some producer their due credits and not about him stealing anything? Cause Quincy accuses him, with no proof, of stealing from other artists.

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