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Thread: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

   
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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikky Dee View Post
    Are you talking about my pic? The 2nd one down? Yes, he was attending court on the day this was taken (2002).

    The problem is that it's his left foot that is in a sock in that pic and the spider bite was on the right leg, so I think they are two separate injuries that are being mixed up by fans and media alike. Especially as the spider bite was in 2003.

    This could be the spider bite. Lots of swelling and no moon boot.

    I’m not sure about this. This photo is Oxford 2001.

    https://www.gettyimages.de/detail/na...?adppopup=true

    The spider bite photo was on the cover of the January 2003 issue of a magazine (see upthread), so it must have happened earlier than that.
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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    I’m not sure about this. This photo is Oxford 2001.

    https://www.gettyimages.de/detail/na...?adppopup=true

    The spider bite photo was on the cover of the January 2003 issue of a magazine (see upthread), so it must have happened earlier than that.
    Well if that's the case, then it must be another sprain, or else it's the foot break, before he got a moon boot on it. That would make sense, actually, because the image I posted of him in the moon boot at Uri Geller's wedding (renewal of vows) is when he was best man on 7th March 2001 and the Oxford speech was the night before, on 6th March 2001. Much was said in the Daily Mail (of course) about Michael being two hours late for the wedding....it was perhaps something to do with his foot and the required treatment of it, I would think.

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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikky Dee View Post
    Well if that's the case, then it must be another sprain, or else it's the foot break, before he got a moon boot on it.
    I found the article about the spider bite. He says he was bitten in the right leg and left foot, and you can actually see it in the photos. So, the sock was on the swollen left foot, and he still “walked” on the right leg. Man, that must have hurt.





    And the hand also. There’s a photo from the court room where he has a swollen hand. I can’t find it right now, but I think I have it somewhere.
    Last edited by ScreenOrigami; 07-09-2020 at 12:50 AM. Reason: added another page from the article
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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Michael had several big events in his life that led to his decline. The first being the Pepsi hair burning fiasco in 1984 which introduced him to pain medications. Before this, Michael had never taken a Tylenol forget about prescription meds. The Pepsi debacle caused severe burns to his scalp, permanently burning a patch of hair so he needed a hair piece and an irritating balloon like piece in his scalp. He also started taking sleeping pills and pain meds for the pain sporadically from this period onwards.

    The 2nd major event was the 1993 molestation accusations which hit his ego and bank account. This led him to stop trusting people, he fired all his advisors and managers and started to take more control of his life. Michael was deeply embarrassed and angry about this event which again led to anxiety, insomnia, and more pain. He responded with more prescription drugs. He still had lots of money at this point....but things really started to go south after this sad to say.

    This unfortunately opened the door to shady business partners, sharks and leaches, etc. His popularity declined especially in the USA, to the point where Michael's dream of becoming a movie star was dead in the water. No big movie labels would touch him due to the stigma. Falling from grace can be hard, especially for a competitive person like MJ.

    The final nail in the coffin for Michael was the big stage fall in 1999 in Munich for the benefit concerts. He was never himself after that. His dancing, his mobility skills all suffered. This led to more pain killers unfortunately as well as sleeping aids. He was spiralling downhill. Then came Invincible and the feuds with Sony, etc. Michael spent like a drunken sailor through the 1990's living like it was still the Thriller-Bad era when he was making $50 million a year. Try affording a staff of 50+ people, a massive entourage, a private jet, lawsuits, lawyers, payouts, insane shopping sprees, hotel charges, lavish gifts, music videos, recording studio fees, etc. Add the leaches and sharks on top of that and Michael from 1995 onwards was spending about $20-25 million more each year then he was bringing in. He stopped touring after 1997 and had basically no income other than the music copyrights (MIJAC, Sony/ATV).

    Michael basically had his shit together right up to Dangerous....after that it was a long drop down. To the point where come 2006 he was $300 million in debt, living on crumbs. It's very sad because if Michael had done things differently he could have easily been worth billions. But nobody is perfect, and he went through hell and back. We can only imagine how hard that was on him.

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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikky Dee View Post
    Well if that's the case, then it must be another sprain, or else it's the foot break, before he got a moon boot on it. That would make sense, actually, because the image I posted of him in the moon boot at Uri Geller's wedding (renewal of vows) is when he was best man on 7th March 2001 and the Oxford speech was the night before, on 6th March 2001. Much was said in the Daily Mail (of course) about Michael being two hours late for the wedding....it was perhaps something to do with his foot and the required treatment of it, I would think.
    Makes sense. He did also wear the “moon boot” when he arrived in London, though:



    So, to expand on your theory: maybe he took it off for Oxford and also tried to go to the wedding without it, but that didn’t work out, so they had to take the time to put it back on?
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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
    Michael basically had his shit together right up to Dangerous....after that it was a long drop down.
    Come on now.

    HIStory sold over 20 million copies and is one of the best selling albums of all time.

    The HIStory tour took him to 35 countries and grossed $ 165 million (if Wikipedia is accurate).

    Michael made some excellent short films for HIStory.

    Ghosts is one of his short film masterpieces.

    Michael also got married twice and raised 3 wonderful children, which he would probably count as his greatest success in life.

    It’s not like it all went downhill after Dangerous.
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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    I started this thread to get thoughts of people who were fans in the period mentioned - observations and opinions. Didn't start it as a fact finding mission to prove in a court of law on when he appeared sober during this time or days when he had injuries. If you believe nothing happened during this time, you are free to not contribute to this thread. Pls don't jump on anyone contributing stating that their opinion is wrong. If something is not clear: When someone says thing A happened in a 6 year period, it does not mean that thing B did not happen in the same time period. Going on and on about thing B, when no one claimed that B didn't happen will just derail any discussion. A,B,C, D and E can all happen in the same period.

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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
    Michael had several big events in his life that led to his decline. The first being the Pepsi hair burning fiasco in 1984 which introduced him to pain medications. Before this, Michael had never taken a Tylenol forget about prescription meds. The Pepsi debacle caused severe burns to his scalp, permanently burning a patch of hair so he needed a hair piece and an irritating balloon like piece in his scalp. He also started taking sleeping pills and pain meds for the pain sporadically from this period onwards.

    The 2nd major event was the 1993 molestation accusations which hit his ego and bank account. This led him to stop trusting people, he fired all his advisors and managers and started to take more control of his life. Michael was deeply embarrassed and angry about this event which again led to anxiety, insomnia, and more pain. He responded with more prescription drugs. He still had lots of money at this point....but things really started to go south after this sad to say.

    This unfortunately opened the door to shady business partners, sharks and leaches, etc. His popularity declined especially in the USA, to the point where Michael's dream of becoming a movie star was dead in the water. No big movie labels would touch him due to the stigma. Falling from grace can be hard, especially for a competitive person like MJ.

    The final nail in the coffin for Michael was the big stage fall in 1999 in Munich for the benefit concerts. He was never himself after that. His dancing, his mobility skills all suffered. This led to more pain killers unfortunately as well as sleeping aids. He was spiralling downhill. Then came Invincible and the feuds with Sony, etc. Michael spent like a drunken sailor through the 1990's living like it was still the Thriller-Bad era when he was making $50 million a year. Try affording a staff of 50+ people, a massive entourage, a private jet, lawsuits, lawyers, payouts, insane shopping sprees, hotel charges, lavish gifts, music videos, recording studio fees, etc. Add the leaches and sharks on top of that and Michael from 1995 onwards was spending about $20-25 million more each year then he was bringing in. He stopped touring after 1997 and had basically no income other than the music copyrights (MIJAC, Sony/ATV).

    Michael basically had his shit together right up to Dangerous....after that it was a long drop down. To the point where come 2006 he was $300 million in debt, living on crumbs. It's very sad because if Michael had done things differently he could have easily been worth billions. But nobody is perfect, and he went through hell and back. We can only imagine how hard that was on him.


    Somehow I never figured that the 1999 injury had such far reaching consequences. Michael was 40 at the time - some age related slowing down is to be expected. I think he knew very well even before History that he shouldn't be touring anymore. I think that impacted his health more than anything and he wanted to diversify his income sources. It's very sad that his movie dreams never came to fruition. He got in the game pretty early on with Wiz - I'm surprised he didn't get more offers in the eighties to act. Coming back to the point though, he didn't tour after Invincible, which is good. But it still does not seem to have helped keep him healthier than he would have been, had he toured.

    I've been on an MJ book binge and one thing that's clear is his spending went way out of control. It wasn't even on himself - his lifestyle had really spiraled. No doubt life was hard on him after a point. I often wonder if he had someone to talk to, post 2005. He seems to have lived to isolated and he'd been through so much. He probably had a lot to work out mentally post the trial.

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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    Come on now.

    HIStory sold over 20 million copies and is one of the best selling albums of all time.

    The HIStory tour took him to 35 countries and grossed $ 165 million (if Wikipedia is accurate).

    Michael made some excellent short films for HIStory.

    Ghosts is one of his short film masterpieces.

    Michael also got married twice and raised 3 wonderful children, which he would probably count as his greatest success in life.

    It’s not like it all went downhill after Dangerous.
    I agree.

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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    I am very skeptical about the validity of certain of his accidents (falling in the bathroom, spider bites, twisting his ankle, etc) that he cites when he had to appear in court on specific dates.

    The reason is that such alleged accidents apparently acted a way for him to gain people’s sympathy in the court or even to avoid a specific court day.

    Remember, his long-time, close friend Elizabeth Taylor once told him to feign such accidents because that was a trick that would help him to gain people’s sympathy, and that trick had already worked in Elizabeth Taylor’s case.

    There was also the case when he arrived an hour late to the Arvizo trial (on March 10th, 2005, which was the day when the boy Gavin Arvizo was to testify against him), and he was wearing pyjamas and slippers due to an alleged tripping and falling over while getting dressed.

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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    I am very skeptical about the validity of certain of his accidents (falling in the bathroom, spider bites, twisting his ankle, etc) that he cites when he had to appear in court on specific dates.

    The reason is that such alleged accidents apparently acted a way for him to gain people’s sympathy in the court or even to avoid a specific court day.

    Remember, his long-time, close friend Elizabeth Taylor once told him to feign such accidents because that was a trick that would help him to gain people’s sympathy, and that trick had already worked in Elizabeth Taylor’s case.

    There was also the case when he arrived an hour late to the Arvizo trial (on March 10th, 2005, which was the day when the boy Gavin Arvizo was to testify against him), and he was wearing pyjamas and slippers due to an alleged tripping and falling over while getting dressed.
    When did Taylor say such a thing?

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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjfan05 View Post
    I started this thread to get thoughts of people who were fans in the period mentioned - observations and opinions. Didn't start it as a fact finding mission to prove in a court of law on when he appeared sober during this time or days when he had injuries. If you believe nothing happened during this time, you are free to not contribute to this thread. Pls don't jump on anyone contributing stating that their opinion is wrong. If something is not clear: When someone says thing A happened in a 6 year period, it does not mean that thing B did not happen in the same time period. Going on and on about thing B, when no one claimed that B didn't happen will just derail any discussion. A,B,C, D and E can all happen in the same period.
    You asked what happened, so it’s just natural that people post proof for things we know have happened. Some people here are simply not into wild guesses and speculation. For example, I have yet to see any footage of Michael that shows him drunk or proof that he did in fact drink more than the occasional glass of wine. Yet, the speculation continues, and I believe this is simply not something we should contribute to.

    Michael had a lot of health issues that we know of, and since he only made them public when he was forced to, I think it’s safe to assume there’s more that we don’t know of. He still had to function as a businessman and a father, so if he used painkillers to handle his situation, that’s something everyone would do and also not really newsworthy.

    As for his business endeavors: the music industry as a whole faced some serious problems at the beginning of the new millennium, not only due to the rise of internet piracy, but also because of the 9/11 situation that put a rapid end to any kind of touring plans for most artists. Even if Michael had planned to tour for Invincible, he probably wouldn’t have taken the risk during those uncertain times when no one knew what was going to happen next.

    We know that Michael wanted to pull out of that Sony situation to gain more control over the music side of his business, and most likely to have more time to be there for his children, but his Plan B after Sony wasn’t just to become an actor. We know that he was exploring various possibilities of generating a steady flow of income. For example, he started Kingdom Entertainment in the late 90’s, explored the options for creating theme parks around the world, and at some point even tried to find a way to buy Marvel. These are just the things we know for sure he did, and I believe it’s safe to say that there were many more paths he was looking at at the time that we know nothing about.

    Now, you can say all of these projects were failures, but as someone who’s running a (small) business myself, let me assure you that failure is part of the process when you try to expand your business. There’s no safe way to go about this. Look at the careers of any of the big players out there, and you will find plenty of unsuccessful endeavors before that one plan finally worked out.

    In Michael’s case, we’re looking at a comparatively short period in time from the late 90’s to the end of 2002 where things didn’t go according to plan, and that’s just normal. He certainly didn’t expect to spend the following years tied up in litigation again, so at that point it was just a series of fairly normal business setbacks that needed to be addressed.

    Apparently he felt that his public image at the time played some part in this, so he tried to work on that with a documentary which we all know backfired terribly due to a mixture of poor judgement and too much trust in the wrong people.

    The following allegations and the trial definitely took their toll, but before that, I am convinced that the whole narrative of “something happened to him and he was never the same after that” is simply not rooted in facts.

    So, yes, when these topics come up, I am convinced it’s best to look at the facts and try to find evidence instead of just speculating and fanning the flames of the “Tabloid Michael” narrative.
    Last edited by ScreenOrigami; 07-09-2020 at 10:34 AM.
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  19. #43
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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    You asked what happened, so it’s just natural that people post proof for things we know have happened. Some people here are simply not into wild guesses and speculation. For example, I have yet to see any footage of Michael that shows him drunk or proof that he did in fact drink more than the occasional glass of wine. Yet, the speculation continues, and I believe this is simply not something we should contribute to.

    Michael had a lot of health issues that we know of, and since he only made them public when he was forced to, I think it’s safe to assume there’s more that we don’t know of. He still had to function as a businessman and a father, so if he used painkillers to handle his situation, that’s something everyone would do and also not really newsworthy.

    As for his business endeavors: the music industry as a whole faced some serious problems at the beginning of the new millennium, not only due to the rise of internet piracy, but also because of the 9/11 situation that put a rapid end to any kind of touring plans for most artists. Even if Michael had planned to tour for Invincible, he probably wouldn’t have taken the risk during those uncertain times when no one knew what was going to happen next.

    We know that Michael wanted to pull out of that Sony situation to gain more control over the music side of his business, and most likely to have more time to be there for his children, but his Plan B after Sony wasn’t just to become an actor. We know that he was exploring various possibilities of generating a steady flow of income. For example, he started Kingdom Entertainment in the late 90’s, explored the options for creating theme parks around the world, and at some point even tried to find a way to buy Marvel. These are just the things we know for sure he did, and I believe it’s safe to say that there were many more paths he was looking at at the time that we know nothing about.

    Now, you can say all of these projects were failures, but as someone who’s running a (small) business myself, let me assure you that failure is part of the process when you try to expand your business. There’s no safe way to go about this. Look at the careers of any of the big players out there, and you will find plenty of unsuccessful endeavors before that one plan finally worked out.

    In Michael’s case, we’re looking at a comparatively short period in time from the late 90’s to the end of 2002 where things didn’t go according to plan, and that’s just normal. He certainly didn’t expect to spend the following years tied up in litigation again, so at that point it was just a series of fairly normal business setbacks that needed to be addressed.

    Apparently he felt that his public image at the time played some part in this, so he tried to work on that with a documentary which we all know backfired terribly due to a mixture of poor judgement and too much trust in the wrong people.

    The following allegations and the trial definitely took their toll, but before that, I am convinced that the whole narrative of “something happened to him and he was never the same after that” is simply not rooted in facts.

    So, yes, when these topics come up, I am convinced it’s best to look at the facts and try to find evidence instead of just speculating and fanning the flames of the “Tabloid Michael” narrative.
    Bravo.

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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    None of us knew Michael personal. we can only go by what he told us and people who was around him. michael did drink but he drank wine if he drank it anything beside that we don't know.

    michael did take drugs for his head and sleep. like others mention before he was injury a couple of times so that was also a problem.

    in my opinion michael was fine until 2005 and after that he was done with the outside world except his fans etc.

    i think after 2005 he was done. i always heard rumors how this is it was plan because he wanted to be relevant and something with money. other then that we don't know for sure only by what was told us.

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    Default Re: What happened to Michael in the late nineties -2003?

    Security guy talks about alcohol issues here - https://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/05/s...ial/index.html

    Apparently there was also a similar drug and alcohol episode described by Frank Cascio in his book. And no, I don't have it and haven't read it, I'm just relaying information.

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