The perception of Michael within the USA from the 90's -2009

mjawb2009

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This question may have been answered before, but... How was Michael perceived within the US from the early 90's - 2009?
What was the reaction to his comeback in 2009?
Why didn't Michael tour the United States fully after the Bad Tour?

Many Thanks
 
I think the happenings of 1993 really compromised Michael’s presence in the USA, in a sense. He chose to tour in foreign countries like England and Germany instead to escape the unrighteous view the USA as an entirety had of him. Of course, like fans in other countries, there were fans in the US that still supported him and did not believe the allegations, but Mike just did not wish to face his soiled reputation (at the time) there anymore. From there, he only did special performances in the nation such as the one at the 1995 MTV Video Music Awards. Another factor that could explain less concerts in the USA is that Mike simply wanted to meet fans globally in Germany, England, Denmark, Norway, everywhere. He did not want to only meet and perform for fans in his home country. His message was to Heal The World after all, not Heal The USA.
 
Serious Effect;4304495 said:
I think the happenings of 1993 really compromised Michael’s presence in the USA, in a sense. He chose to tour in foreign countries like England and Germany instead to escape the unrighteous view the USA as an entirety had of him. Of course, like fans in other countries, there were fans in the US that still supported him and did not believe the allegations, but Mike just did not wish to face his soiled reputation (at the time) there anymore. From there, he only did special performances in the nation such as the one at the 1995 MTV Video Music Awards. Another factor that could explain less concerts in the USA is that Mike simply wanted to meet fans globally in Germany, England, Denmark, Norway, everywhere. He did not want to only meet and perform for fans in his home country. His message was to Heal The World after all, not Heal The USA.
Weeeelllllllll.....he did do heal l.a (just throwing that out there)
 
A main reason that he did not plan to tour in USA (for the Dangerous Tour) was because there were (relatively to the rest of the world) smaller stadiums, and even if these concerts were sold-out they could not cover the cost of the giant production of the Dangerous Tour.

And also his popularity in USA started to decrease (from the early ‘90s onwards), when his skin colour was becoming gradually lighter and because of that he also started to lose a large part of his black, American fan base.

After the 1993 allegations, there was also the general negative atmosphere towards him, and the reactions to him in USA generally ranged from indifference to even hatred.

Finally, the reaction in USA (in 2009) to his ‘This Is It’ comeback was lukewarm, which also explains why there were no plans at all to perform in USA for the ‘This Is It’ Tour (after the London shows).
 
mj_frenzy;4304531 said:
Finally, the reaction in USA (in 2009) to his ‘This Is It’ comeback was lukewarm, which also explains why there were no plans at all to perform in USA for the ‘This Is It’ Tour (after the London shows).

What tour? There were no plans for a tour. Michael wanted to do 10 concerts in London and that was going to be it. He reportedly complained to fans that AEG extended it to 50 concerts in London. Tour?

And why would it be anything but a side note in the USA if Michael announces concerts somewhere on the other side of the planet?

As always you're twisting things to appear in the most negative way possible.
 
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mj_frenzy;4304531 said:
Finally, the reaction in USA (in 2009) to his ‘This Is It’ comeback was lukewarm, which also explains why there were no plans at all to perform in USA for the ‘This Is It’ Tour (after the London shows).

In fact....there were. Michael was going to tour all over the world after the London shows and the tour was going to last between 3-5 years. He was even going to perform on the Super Bowl again. This was confirmed by Michael Prince.
 
dethorro;4304541 said:
In fact....there were. Michael was going to tour all over the world after the London shows and the tour was going to last between 3-5 years. He was even going to perform on the Super Bowl again. This was confirmed by Michael Prince.

Michael Durham Prince also said that Michael Jackson planned to tour for the ‘Invincible’ album.

In actuality, Michael Jackson never planned to tour for the ‘Invincible’ album (he confided the reason to the American producer Cory Rooney in the early ‘00s).

Also, Michael Durham Prince cannot even remember songs that he along with Michael Jackson together worked on.

Michael Durham Prince is an unreliable source generally, so I cannot see why what he said about the Super Bowl performance (in the ‘This Is It’ era) has to be taken as a fact.
 


From the end of the article:
"It has been reported that while AEG claimed they were very confident about Jackson's health leading up to his concerts, they also took out a very hefty life insurance policy on him to protect their assets should something happen to his health that prevented the costly performances going ahead."


This was written a few days after Michaels death. So with their eyes on the life insurance payout, this claim about alleged plans beyond the London concerts would surely demonstrate AEG's "confidence" in Michaels health.

It definitly contradicts what fans reported hearing from Michael directly.
 
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mj_frenzy;4304543 said:
Michael Durham Prince is an unreliable source generally, so I cannot see why what he said about the Super Bowl performance (in the ‘This Is It’ era) has to be taken as a fact.

Oh, the irony...
 
In fact....there were. Michael was going to tour all over the world after the London shows and the tour was going to last between 3-5 years. He was even going to perform on the Super Bowl again. This was confirmed by Michael Prince.

He didn't perform in US on previous tours so its possible that he didn't plan to do it for This Is It either.
 
Hi Electro,

There were plans for more concert series like the 'This Is It' one in London, MJ having a permanent residence and performing in the same venue for some time. I came through some documents that detailed this including some possible locations (as I remember Tokio and Paris were mentioned as locations) with MJ's signature.
 
Michael may have not been aware but this was AEG's plan for the tour:

''Documents displayed for a jury Wednesday showed the promoter of Michael Jackson's ill-fated comeback concerts had contemplated a worldwide tour for the entertainer in the year before his death.

The documents prepared by AEG Live LLC envisioned 186 shows, with Jackson earning $132 million for his performances - far less than the $835 million that an accountant who previously testified for the Jackson family had projected the singer would pocket from 260 shows around the globe.''
- Billboard

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/2347771/michael-jacksons-this-is-it-tour-would-have-gone-global-court-told
 
Hi Electro,

There were plans for more concert series like the 'This Is It' one in London, MJ having a permanent residence and performing in the same venue for some time. I came through some documents that detailed this including some possible locations (as I remember Tokio and Paris were mentioned as locations) with MJ's signature.

Hi,
I actually remember something like this as well. It just never correlated with those fan reported comments by Michael.
Well, who knows. The fact this would have not been a "tour" in the old way (that he hated doing), might have made him agree once he saw that people wanted more.

So you saw contracts for those? Were they brought up in one of the trials?
Can we be sure that the signatures were not fake?
 
A few things I want to point out.

Michael did agree to tour for Invincible in America and Europe in spring 2002, but changed his mind after 9/11, every other major artist also cancelled their tours due to 9/11. But him being tired of touring was also a major factor in the decision.

And after the 50 shows in London, This Is It was planned to be taken around the globe for three years and 186 shows. (This plan sounds crazy considering Michael’s mental and physical state but it is what it is.) He was going to go to such places as Germany, Japan, India, Australia, etc. and then finally ending the tour in Canada and the US.
 
Hudson112;4304569 said:
And after the 50 shows in London, This Is It was planned to be taken around the globe for three years and 186 shows. (This plan sounds crazy considering Michael’s mental and physical state but it is what it is.) He was going to go to such places as Germany, Japan, India, Australia, etc. and then finally ending the tour in Canada and the US.

Is there any source for that besides what Randy Phillips said after Michael died?
 
Is there any source for that besides what Randy Phillips said after Michael died?

There were documents in the Katherine vs. AEG trial confirming this. Now whether Michael agreed to do it is up to question.
 
Electro: Yes, I have seen these documents filed in legal cases. Though I have no idea of the other concerns you have.

Also, I think that the language of the original AEG-MJ contract clearly refers to having multiple legs and other locations. I'm attaching a screenshot here of an example.

https://ibb.co/w0t4CgW
 
Well, he performed in Hawaii (USA) during the HIStory Tour so I never understood why he didn't performed for the people in the mainland too.
 
Yeah, TII was always planned to be a bigger thing than MJ initially let on.
 
Arena dates in the US on the Bad tour.
Stadium shows all over Europe and Asia. Multiple nights in multiple cities. Popularity was already on the way down in America in comparison to Europe. I do know that was mainly down to people thinking he was trying to be white, both in looks and in his music. Which is a shame because if he came out publicly about his skin condition, Bad would have sold more than Thriller IMO

I have no clue what the American public's perception of Michael was, in the majority, in terms of allegations and his skin condition but, in Europe and certainly in my country, it falls into 3 categories

1. "He didn't do it and he had a skin condition"
2. "He did do it and he bleached his skin"
3. "Don't know and don't care. He was great"

Certainly those two, rightly or wrongly, affected his popularity and the public's perception of him. We know how fickle and ignorant the world can be.
 
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I know I might be waay of.

But I think I remeber hearing rumours about MJ wanted to have concerte like TII in poor country to help their economy - when people would have to travel to the concert from around the world - like TII in London. -I think I once heard a rumour about Sri Lanka?

Has anyone else ever heard about a such thing or is it my memory that is totally off. :)
 
Hudson112;4304569 said:
A few things I want to point out.

Michael did agree to tour for Invincible in America and Europe in spring 2002, but changed his mind after 9/11, every other major artist also cancelled their tours due to 9/11. But him being tired of touring was also a major factor in the decision.

Michael Jackson never agreed to tour for the ‘Invincible’ album.

Aside from his health issues that he revealed to Cory Rooney (that a tour would literally kill him), there was also an additional reason for him:

He was aware that if he toured for the ‘Invincible’ album at that time, then this would benefit Sony (because with the touring sales of that album would increase).

But he did not want to benefit Sony in any way, considering how much disgusted he was with them, and especially with Tommy Mottola.

There is also another thing: during the recording sessions of that album, he decided to end his contract with Sony prematurely, which he did later (in 2002).

So, having no contract with Sony, a tour for that album would have been impossible at the time.
 
mj_frenzy;4304660 said:
Michael Jackson never agreed to tour for the ‘Invincible’ album.

Aside from his health issues that he revealed to Cory Rooney (that a tour would literally kill him), there was also an additional reason for him:

He was aware that if he toured for the ‘Invincible’ album at that time, then this would benefit Sony (because with the touring sales of that album would increase).

But he did not want to benefit Sony in any way, considering how much disgusted he was with them, and especially with Tommy Mottola.

There is also another thing: during the recording sessions of that album, he decided to end his contract with Sony prematurely, which he did later (in 2002).

So, having no contract with Sony, a tour for that album would have been impossible at the time.

I am not saying this is not correct... BUT...

Knowing MJ's mindset - writing on mirrors that his albums should sell 100+ million copies etc. I doubt very much that his dislike for SONY was enough for him to release an album and then not try to make it sell as many copies as possible.

MJ knew that succes was weighted from albumsales. - Media would write he was done if it only sold 2 million copies etc. - some even wrote that anyway even though it sold very well for an album released in 2001 - where illegal downloads where high and legal streaming not inventet yet...

So I think MJ woud promote his album and try to make the album sale as many copies as possible - MJ wanted his album (and therefore himself) to succed more than he wanted to hurt SONY. - At least that's my belief.
 
mj_frenzy;4304660 said:
Michael Jackson never agreed to tour for the ‘Invincible’ album.


Yes, he agreed. On December 21 2001 Barry Siegel, MJ's then accountant, created Invincible Tours Inc in California. The setup was very similar to History Tours I Inc and History Tours II Inc, that were handling the financial and legal aspects of the tours.

Here is the Article of Incorporation: https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/Document/RetrievePDF?Id=02370186-4965222
 
So, Michael Prince was right about both of these things.
 
LeslieMJ;4304673 said:
Yes, he agreed. On December 21 2001 Barry Siegel, MJ's then accountant, created Invincible Tours Inc in California. The setup was very similar to History Tours I Inc and History Tours II Inc, that were handling the financial and legal aspects of the tours.

Here is the Article of Incorporation: https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/Document/RetrievePDF?Id=02370186-4965222

This document does not prove that Michael Jackson agreed to tour for the ‘Invincible’ album.

Just like the AEG Live’s document (of him doing 50 shows) which does not also prove that he agreed to do 50 shows.

And there was not a single word from Michael Jackson himself (in his interviews during the ‘Invincible’ era) which suggested that he wanted or that he agreed to tour for that album.

For example, from USA TODAY (2001):

Edna Gundersen: “If you don't tour, how will you satisfy public demand as well as your need to perform?”

Michael Jackson: “I want to direct a special on myself and do songs that touch me. I want something more intimate, from the soul and heart, with just one spotlight.”

It is also extremely unlikely that Michael Jackson agreed to begin a world tour at that particular period of the aftermath and global fear due to the 9/11 terrorist attacks when most artists and bands were cancelling their planned concerts that were meant to take place in the late 2001 and also in 2002.
 
mj_frenzy;4304783 said:
This document does not prove that Michael Jackson agreed to tour for the ‘Invincible’ album.

Just like the AEG Live’s document (of him doing 50 shows) which does not also prove that he agreed to do 50 shows.

And there was not a single word from Michael Jackson himself (in his interviews during the ‘Invincible’ era) which suggested that he wanted or that he agreed to tour for that album.

For example, from USA TODAY (2001):

Edna Gundersen: “If you don't tour, how will you satisfy public demand as well as your need to perform?”

Michael Jackson: “I want to direct a special on myself and do songs that touch me. I want something more intimate, from the soul and heart, with just one spotlight.”

It is also extremely unlikely that Michael Jackson agreed to begin a world tour at that particular period of the aftermath and global fear due to the 9/11 terrorist attacks when most artists and bands were cancelling their planned concerts that were meant to take place in the late 2001 and also in 2002.


Having MJ's accountant set up a company under the name of "Invincible Tours" from his money, on his then business address, making him the President and sole shareholder of the company (what would require his signature on some of the documents) could be hardly interpreted differently than that at one point he agreed to tour for the Invincible album.

I can list you dozens of MJ projects that MJ never talked about but there is clear evidence that he was working on.

With the AEG/MJ contract I did not reflect on him agreeing to do 50 shows in London, but that from the beginning he planned to tour multiple cities.

And here is a list of the tours in 2002 (that includes Jon Bon Jovi, U2, Pink, Billy Idol, etc): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:2002_concert_tours
 
I think the 1993 lies really mess him up. michael was still very popular in the 90's and early 2000's but the lies. smh. michael never liked touring in the first place. the bad tour was suppose to be his last tour. michael loved his fans all around the world. so he decided to tour for us in reality he didn't have to.

when this is it was announce tickets sold out. the world still loved Michael and was missing him. but due to Michael health and the fact he was 50 he should of done 10 shows like he asked for. i mean Michael probably would have died on stage while touring. :(
 
Michael was going to tour all over the world after the London shows and the tour was going to last between 3-5 years. He was even going to perform on the Super Bowl again. This was confirmed by Michael Prince.

a big no-no in my opinion.
 
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