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Thread: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

   
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    Default Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    It dawned upon me while listening to Nick's remix of Walk Right Now that some songs on the Triumph album was very weirdly mixed. I hadn't listened to Triumph for a while so i went back and heard it with fresh new ears. Some of the songs that sticks out are Walk Right Now, Everybody and wondering who. Walk right now really sticks out because the voice feels like it's buried under the track the volume is so low on the lead vocals. I don't know but when I heard the remixes the quality was much, much better and made the songs sound better. It also sounds like the speed for some songs had been increased.

    Walk This Way from The Album



    Walk This Way Remix by Nick


    I would love to hear a remixed and remastered version of Triumph. What do you guys think?
    Last edited by Themidwestcowboy; 25-04-2021 at 11:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    Are these new “expanded” releases remastered?

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    Quote Originally Posted by dam2040 View Post
    Are these new “expanded” releases remastered?
    That’s a good questions! I have been wondering about that myself. Unfortunately I don’t think the problem was the mastering of the tracks. Even though a new remastered version of the album would make it sound much better, the issue that I have is with how they mixed the album.

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Themidwestcowboy View Post
    the voice feels like it's buried under the track the volume is so low on the lead vocals
    Album versions are not all equal. Even without changing the mixes, they depend on the whole mastering process which can emphasize certain frequencies and neglect other frequencies.
    What you are describing sounds like most post year 2K remixes with emphasis on drums and instrument at the cost of vocals clarity, and sometimes added overdubs, and most of the time "sound compression", which reduces recording dynamic range in order to make everything go as loud as "possible" (also search on critics about the "loudness war" phenomenon).
    This is why I always favor releases from early 90s or earliers if they are available.
    Though issues even with those, if you take Off The Wall late from 80s it sound nothing like early 80s CD (if I'm not mistaking, early 80s release used the same mastering as vinyl release, which has more emphasis towards high frequencies... but I could be mistaking).

    And I still need to mention that the 2008 remasters of the Jacksons, and Thriller, are among the less "destructive" remasters I heard. On the other hand, Off the Wall 2016 is pure garbage right out of the box. Which is why I'm skeptic about the coming Jacksons re-issues. Nice that they will include so many "rare" tracks ... but at what cost in terms of mastering?



    Edit: About this, in a recent conversation, someone reported that MJ himself thought the some releases mastering sounded awful, but was not sure if it was about the 2001 remasters, The Ultimate Collection or Invincible. (I personally don't think it was Invincible.) (<-- Info to be verified!) (<-- EDIT: Info shown to be "more or less unlikely" further in conversation.)
    Last edited by Maxym; 25-04-2021 at 02:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    I’d always heard the 2001 editions were the best versions.

    I know the 2012 Bad 25 is the worst one I’ve ever heard.

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    You may be right, I don't have Off the Wall and Bad 2001 (though I thinking of buying Bad 2001). As I already mentioned, I think the Thriller remasters are usually OK. Regarding Dangerous it depends on tracks, in example, right now I think that the remaster works well on Jam, not so well on Give In To Me (haven't compared the whole album). So yeah, the 2001 remasters may be better than in my memories. For TUC, it depends on tracks, I was focused on rared tracks and Someone Put Your Hand Out 2004 is awful compared to Someone Put Your Hand Out 1991. Someone In The Dark 2004 also sound very different compared to Someone In The Dark 1982, but not catastrophic.

    --> Seems like the MJ's early 2000 remasters don't seem as catastrophic as I remembered, but I was focusing on some specific tracks.
    Last edited by Maxym; 25-04-2021 at 02:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    Quote Originally Posted by dam2040 View Post
    Are these new “expanded” releases remastered?
    Somewhere else on this forum I asked "what's the difference between the deluxe and the regular mix? (can't listen paying attention right now)".
    And I got this reply: "On the album (regular mix), they cut the strings in the first part of the intro Including the sound of electric guitars and synths in album version
    also Nick* made the Deluxe Mix sound balanced and matched with the original mix."

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    OTW 01 sounds pretty good although it is still too loud. Bad and Dangerous do not sound great at all in my opinion. Also yeah the B25 remaster was even worse lol.
    Last edited by SmoothGangsta; 25-04-2021 at 02:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    I've never thought about it. I'll have to listen to that album on the way to work tomorrow and judge it, any excuse to listen to that masterpiece of an album

    Heads up Themidwestcowboy, was Walk This Way on the same album as Love Waits For No One 😁
    Last edited by SmoothCriminal1995; 25-04-2021 at 04:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    Walk this way? hhh? Its "Walk right now" !

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxym View Post
    Album versions are not all equal. Even without changing the mixes, they depend on the whole mastering process which can emphasize certain frequencies and neglect other frequencies.
    What you are describing sounds like most post year 2K remixes with emphasis on drums and instrument at the cost of vocals clarity, and sometimes added overdubs, and most of the time "sound compression", which reduces recording dynamic range in order to make everything go as loud as "possible" (also search on critics about the "loudness war" phenomenon).
    This is why I always favor releases from early 90s or earliers if they are available.
    Though issues even with those, if you take Off The Wall late from 80s it sound nothing like early 80s CD (if I'm not mistaking, early 80s release used the same mastering as vinyl release, which has more emphasis towards high frequencies... but I could be mistaking).
    I don't think that's the case, because some songs on triumph sounds just perfectly fine and clear with front and center lead vocals but some other songs sounds very muffled and unclear. The dynamics sounds very uneven.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothCriminal1995 View Post
    I've never thought about it. I'll have to listen to that album on the way to work tomorrow and judge it, any excuse to listen to that masterpiece of an album

    Heads up Themidwestcowboy, was Walk This Way on the same album as Love Waits For No One ��

    Quote Originally Posted by mjchris View Post
    Walk this way? hhh? Its "Walk right now" !
    HAHA! wow. I'm sorry guys. This is the second time I mix up the names of the songs for this album. I'll probably end up calling Everybody "Everyone"

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    This is interesting, I never thought they sounded too bad myself.

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    Quote Originally Posted by awaken450 View Post
    This is interesting, I never thought they sounded too bad myself.
    Neither did I, but when you hear the new mixes that talented producers/mixers make of this track you’ll clearly notice how the mixing on some songs sounds rather flat and dull. Destiny didn’t have this issue. Neither did any of MJ’s solo albums so I wonder what was going on with Triumph. Also on some songs his voice almost sound pitched up, giving him a bit of a chipmunk-y sound. I really believe that they sped up some songs on triumph.

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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    The mixing wasn't done thoroughly enough. For instance, listen to "Your Ways" - at around 03:48, Michaels "okay, ehem" shouldn't be on the final mix but it is.


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    Default Re: Why was some songs on The Triumph album mixed so badly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzball View Post
    The mixing wasn't done thoroughly enough. For instance, listen to "Your Ways" - at around 03:48, Michaels "okay, ehem" shouldn't be on the final mix but it is.

    Lol. This is the first time noticing that.

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