Dirty Diana – let's discuss

[Piek]

On the website Stereogum, Tom Breihan has a column called The Number Ones. He is reviewing every single #1 in the history of the Billboard Hot 100. It's actually a fun column to check frequently. He is now in 1988... so he has some more writing to do. One of his last posts is about Michaels fifth #1 from the album Bad: Dirty Diana. It's a very thorough analysis, and a nice read. With some fun facts I didn't know (Quincy Jones to Steve Stevens: "Could you put a little more custard in your cone, man?"). You can read it here:
https://www.stereogum.com/2147147/the-number-ones-michael-jacksons-dirty-diana/columns/the-number-ones/

Tom is very positive about the song, but then I read the comments, and two questions popped up. I am curious what you think.

The first question has to do with this: I was 13 when Bad was released. I wasn't a big fan of the song. I skipped it most of the time. Actually, I skipped most of the album, because I wanted to play Smooth Criminal the whole day. I loved that song. (And still do.) When I grew older, I noticed other students and people I saw on the dance floor, reacted very positive to Dirty Diana. Like that was a really OK song, even for non-fans. That has always been my impression of the song: that it was a popular track, positively reviewed. It also grew on me, I started to admire Michaels incredible vocal performance. However, reading the comments at Sterogum, and also reading some other reviews from that time, many people don't like the song at all. What is you impression – how did people around you respond to Dirty Diana?

Secondly, quit some people refer to it as a misogynistic song. I don't agree with that at all; the song isn't labeling all women. It's describing certain behaviour in some people – not saying every woman is behaving like this. Yet some people already take offense in the title of the song. What do you think?

 

[king_of_style]

The first question has to do with this: I was 13 when Bad was released. I wasn't a big fan of the song. I skipped it most of the time. Actually, I skipped most of the album, because I wanted to play Smooth Criminal the whole day. I loved that song. (And still do.) When I grew older, I noticed other students and people I saw on the dance floor, reacted very positive to Dirty Diana. Like that was a really OK song, even for non-fans. That has always been my impression of the song: that it was a popular track, positively reviewed. It also grew on me, I started to admire Michaels incredible vocal performance. However, reading the comments at Sterogum, and also reading some other reviews from that time, many people don't like the song at all. What is you impression – how did people around you respond to Dirty Diana?

As for the first question I can't answer it since I wouldn't be born until the Invincible era -- but I will say that while it's not my favorite song on Bad (that honor goes to the title track), I do agree that it's one of his best vocal performances on any of his albums until probably "Earth Song".

Secondly, quit some people refer to it as a misogynistic song. I don't agree with that at all; the song isn't labeling all women. It's describing certain behaviour in some people – not saying every woman is behaving like this. Yet some people already take offense in the title of the song. What do you think?

I think that those who call this song misogynistic would say that there's an entire genre of MJ songs/lyrics like it (they'd probably cite "Dangerous" too). I don't know if it is misogynistic, but if it is then it comes from his Jehovah's Witnesses background. From what I've read that religion is very repressive about sexuality and very unfair to women. MJ didn't exactly get a healthy education in relationships and sex growing up, so I think it makes sense that he would express his frustrations with them through some of his songs.

 

[Diana22]

Secondly, quit some people refer to it as a misogynistic song. I don't agree with that at all; the song isn't labeling all women. It's describing certain behaviour in some people – not saying every woman is behaving like this. Yet some people already take offense in the title of the song. What do you think?

Perhaps it could have been mislabeled in this way in the 80s where many themes were considered as taboos but today there are many songs that far exceed the concept so criticism just doesn't find space.

I think that those who call this song misogynistic would say that there's an entire genre of MJ songs/lyrics like it (they'd probably cite "Dangerous" too). I don't know if it is misogynistic, but if it is then it comes from his Jehovah's Witnesses background. From what I've read that religion is very repressive about sexuality and very unfair to women. MJ didn't exactly get a healthy education in relationships and sex growing up, so I think it makes sense that he would express his frustrations with them through some of his songs.

I can't see any kind of frustration with women in any of his songs, I'd rather say he maybe had different and shy ways, which is neither a fault nor a religious imposition and however this concerned his personal life, not his songs to me

 

[AlwaysThere]

I don’t quite understand the mentality behind claiming some MJ songs as sexist. Then again, as a straight male, I acknowledge that my perspective can be skewed.

 

[Nite Line]

You have female singers like Taylor Swift who have made a career out of bashing their ex boyfriends who are men. But when a male singer bashes women in his songs, that’s sexist and misogynistic. What a load of absolute nonsense. But I don’t expect anything else from these modern day feminists. In the name of equality, they want to **** on men and demean them.

There is absolutely nothing sexist or misogynistic about Dirty Diana. Anyone who thinks that lacks brain cells.

 

[mj_frenzy]

I think that those who call this song misogynistic would say that there's an entire genre of MJ songs/lyrics like it (they'd probably cite "Dangerous" too). I don't know if it is misogynistic, but if it is then it comes from his Jehovah's Witnesses background. From what I've read that religion is very repressive about sexuality and very unfair to women. MJ didn't exactly get a healthy education in relationships and sex growing up, so I think it makes sense that he would express his frustrations with them through some of his songs.

I don’t quite understand the mentality behind claiming some MJ songs as sexist. Then again, as a straight male, I acknowledge that my perspective can be skewed.

The mentality behind claiming some Michael Jackson's songs as sexist or misogynistic stems from the fact that he lost an amount of his trust towards women.

He began to mistrust women because he believed that they approached him only because of his fame and wealth.

He also started to witness how some types of women approached other men in order to benefit from these men in certain ways.

This was confirmed also by the singer’s own words to his friend and spiritual guide Rabbi Shmuley Boteach (‘The Michael Jackson Tapes&#8217.

That is why he began writing and recording songs that can be considered sexist or misogynistic (‘Give In To Me’, ‘Blood On The Dance Floor’, ‘Who Is It’, ‘Dirty Diana’, ‘Dangerous’, ‘Superfly Sister’, ‘Billie Jean’, etc).

So, even if these songs are indeed sexist or misogynistic, then there is nothing wrong about that because they reflect how he honestly felt about certain women or about certain types of women.

 

[Galactus123]

Dirty Diana is one of the best songs on Bad. I really like Michael's rock songs. Give In To Me is also great.

 

[Piek]

He began to mistrust women because he believed that they approached him only because of his fame and wealth.

You could probably say his mistrust was directed at all adults, not just women. Listen to Money.

 

[king_of_style]

You could probably say his mistrust was directed at all adults, not just women. Listen to Money.

Yeah, I imagine he spent his whole childhood singing about love and making the world a better place, and then when he became an adult he found that people are far meaner and selfish than they ever are in the songs he would sing.

 

[R1chard]

Dirty Diana was one of the songs that got me into MJ when I was about 10. The other being TWYMMF.

Like, before that, my favourite MJ song was Beat It, but I wouldn't call myself a MJ fan until I heard stuff from Bad. DD is a great song, it always stood out for me.

I was always confused why HIStory missed out Dirty Diana and Smooth Criminal.

 

[Piek]

I was always confused why HIStory missed out Dirty Diana and Smooth Criminal.

Michael has too many hits to chose from!
It's amazing, actually... an album like BAD is a greatest hits album in itself!

 

[Hess]

One of my favorite live performances.

Human Nature and Dirty Diana are probably my two favorite live performances - from the BAD Tour.

Dirty Diana is great.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Dirty Diana is one of my lesser liked songs. I enjoy the live performance tho.

 

[analogue]

Dirty Diana was the biggest surprise for This Is It for me. I always thought he was done with that song after the BAD Tour and it is a very vocally demanding song, so I could understand why he wouldn't perform it again.

 

[SmoothCriminal1995]

Dirty Diana was the biggest surprise for This Is It for me. I always thought he was done with that song after the BAD Tour and it is a very vocally demanding song, so I could understand why he wouldn't perform it again.

Yep same mate, I was floored when I heard he was planning to perform Dirty Diana after all these years. It's one of my favourite moments from the Bad Tour, he was a rockstar when performed that live

 

[DanGerouS-]

the TII version if Dirty Diana is even better and sounds much darker. what a shame he couldn't perform it.

 

[R1chard]

Michael has too many hits to chose from!
It's amazing, actually... an album like BAD is a greatest hits album in itself!

Yeah, that's the reason, there's only so many songs you can fit on one CD. Smooth Criminal though?!