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Thread: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

   
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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    So Joe calling him all types of crap, chastising his looks and all that (and things we will probably NEVER know about) had NOTHING to do with MJ's emotional trama? Right. Also u werent in the Gary house when Joe was doing all the beating and everything so how would u know when MJ started feeling the discomfort.

    Again from MJs own mouth, he has said Joe's parenting has had an effect, a deep effect on him. And fact is fact.



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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by mello1 View Post
    Okay. Gary ani't THAT bad. And Dat, let black folk speak for themselves.

    Gary is ecomonically depressed. I have first hand knowledge of that for sure.

    It is that way because the steel industry is not what it used to be and because of the politics in the State of Indiana. Peeps who live in the Lake County area generally commute to Chicago to work if they can -- just like the peeps in South Bend, Ft. Wayne and other parts of NW Indiana.

    But Black folk don't beat their children because it's better than some racist cop doing it. That's like WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over the line here.

    Black folk back in the day spanked, whooped, beat -- whatever you choose to call it because they were being bad azzez. That's just the way it was done. Like I said, different people react differently to that, especially today, but back in the day, it was common place and not just black folk, either.
    Right mello. That's exactly right. Each person is simply going to be impacted differently, that's all. I think it's only fair to Michael to at least respect his feelings on the issue. My mother was treated in a not so freindly way by her mother, she got slapped, etc... And it really had a big impact on her. My aunt used to get regularly beat by her mother and it caused a lot of resentment and anger in her. It had a big impact. It depends on each person. I just don't think it's the right approach because you never know if it is going to end up really messing your kids up or not.
    Last edited by wannabestartinsomthin21; 10-02-2008 at 02:45 AM.

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by J5master View Post
    I guess the conclusion is this: When times are rough, beat your kids.

    I dont think so.

    i don't think so either. joe jackson beat up his children and left michael (m not sure about the others) emotionally scarred. is that good? please let us not justify these beatings by saying that it made michael the perfectionist that he is. i think even without those corporal punishment, michael wud still turn into the huge talent that he is today. His were God-given

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Datsymay View Post
    I'm speaking from experience Mello, I'm speaking from experience. I am black folks too.
    So I'm I but that is just an exaggeration. I'm sry. If peeps were beating their kids as an indocrination to racism, then they had some other mental issues going on there. That's ridiculous.
    Last edited by mello1; 10-02-2008 at 02:46 AM.


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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by gemini27 View Post
    i don't think so either. joe jackson beat up his children and left michael (m not sure about the others) emotionally scarred. is that good? please let us not justify these beatings by saying that it made michael the perfectionist that he is. i think even without those corporal punishment, michael wud still turn into the huge talent that he is today. His were God-given
    Michael got whopped when he was naughty, just like any other kids. MJ wasn't even scared of Joe, he was the only child that did challenge his father. Didn't you watch The Jackson's an American Dream. MJ was the only child in that house that stood up to joe. MJ was no whimp.Some of you need to read the signs and not take thing at face value. Look for the clues there. MJ was boss. What MJ wanted MJ got. All the brothers defered to MJ, they still do. Read the signs. When MJ wated change he was the only one that would approach Berry Gordy, none of he others would, Stop seeing MJ as timid and whimpish. MJ know how to use the media too.
    Last edited by Datsymay; 10-02-2008 at 02:49 AM.
    Mr Jackson was very strong and powerful, and he was scary in a way, but not without a sense of humour, although it was clear that all the children had a huge amount of respect for their dad.
    'I had a set opinion of the family beforehand and, because my perception of them changed while making the film, ...They came across as a steady, committed family, whereas it was the people around them who were scrabbling in the dirt. British reporter.

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Datsymay View Post
    That right there is speculation too. You do not know how or when Mj started dealing with issues. I shall speculate that MJ's real issues started when he was assigned to Motown cause that was when he no longer was able to go to school and when he was working all ours. that was indeed a delicate age to be disconnected fro your peers and I have noticed that that is the only tome when MJ shows any real emotions. It was also the time when he became a real superstar and was unable to go anywhere without a body guard. Glady's knight said it all, so did Susan De passe. And so do his brothers. That was the real time when mj started showing any signs of discomfort. in other words, my speculation is that it was the sudden rise to fame and the fact that he was cut off from the real world because of that fame that caused MJ emotional trama, not the fact that he was called names at home, which Mj participated in himself or chastised
    It's not really speculation though Datsy, because I'm getting this straight from Michael's own mouth. He himself has said his father caused him a lot of sadness, that he just wanted his father to show him love, etc... It's different being called names by your parent then it is your siblings. Michael's never said anything about his brothers calling him names. What really affected Michael though, and this is coming straight from his mouth, was that his father never told him he loved him, never showed him he was proud of him, never said he was good enough, etc... And beating him for going against his word only reinforced that I think. You can teach your children what is right and wrong by being their example and you can keep them in line by being patient, kind and rewarding them for good behavior rather then beating them for bad. If you have the time to rehearse your kids and hit them and yell, then you have the time to talk to them, take away privlidges, teach them through example, etc...

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Datsymay View Post
    MJ wasn't even scared of Joe, he was the only child that did challenge his father. Didn't you watch The Jackson's an American Dream.
    Didn't he also say that he would sometime want to faint at his father's presence? Or are we speculating that he made that up?

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Look I speak from experience too.

    PEOPLE (not just blacks) beat their children for discipline purposes. To make sure they BEHAVE. Joe did it to SCARE them. To scare them into performing well.

    My mother didnt get beat as a child and grew up in the same situation, in the 60s, and struggled in her adulthood to get out of the ghetto for ME and my siblings. She didnt need to get beat to turn out good.

    My father on the other hand DID get beat. And that in combination with some tramatic times at war made him one scary and cold man. And he did the beating and the name calling and the works in the house when we were growing up. I'm not effected by the beatings. I laugh when i think back on that. But it's the things my father SAID that still hurts to this day. And i think for MJ is that COMBINATION of emotional mess and the physical that gets to him. The fact that MJ wasnt able to call him FATHER or DAD, the fact that he never told him that he loved him...the scares that Joe performed in the middle of the night JUST to scare them....I mean its EXCESSIVE. You can teach children to be hard working and disciplined in their talents without all of that. EVEN in Gary, even in the 60s.



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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by mello1 View Post
    So I'm I but that is just an exaggeration. I'm sry. If peeps were beating their kids as an indocrination to racism, then they had some other mental issues going on there. That's ridiculous.
    It was a bit of exaggeration, but it has always implied in the whippings when kids are being desciplined. In fact if you watched The jackson, american dream, there was a scene where Joe had Jackie moving bricks, and when jackie asked why, he told him that he wanted him to be prepared for what was to come,.That was implied in that bit of excersie that he was trying to kep him out of trouble.
    Mr Jackson was very strong and powerful, and he was scary in a way, but not without a sense of humour, although it was clear that all the children had a huge amount of respect for their dad.
    'I had a set opinion of the family beforehand and, because my perception of them changed while making the film, ...They came across as a steady, committed family, whereas it was the people around them who were scrabbling in the dirt. British reporter.

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Datsymay View Post
    Michael got whopped when he was naughty, just like any other kids. MJ wasn't even scared of Joe, he was the only child that did challenge his father. Didn't you watch The Jackson's an American Dream. MJ was the only child in that house that stood up to joe. MJ was no whimp.Some of you need to read the signs and not take thing at face value. Look for the clues there. MJ was boss. What MJ wanted MJ got. All the brothers defered to MJ, they still do. Read the signs. When MJ wated change he was the only one that would approach Berry Gordy, none of he others would, Stop seeing MJ as timid and whimpish. MJ know how to use the media too.
    No one is saying MJs a whimp. Just cuz MJ stood up to his father and the most proactive doesnt mean the goings on didnt negatively effect him. IT DID. And that doesnt make MJ a whimp either.



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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Datsymay View Post
    Michael got whopped when he was naughty, just like any other kids. MJ wasn't even scared of Joe, he was the only child that did challenge his father. Didn't you watch The Jackson's an American Dream. MJ was the only child in that house that stood up to joe. MJ was no whimp.Some of you need to read the signs and not take thing at face value. Look for the clues there. MJ was boss. What MJ wanted MJ got. All the brothers defered to MJ, they still do. Read the signs. When MJ wated change he was the only one that would approach Berry Gordy, none of he others would, Stop seeing MJ as timid and whimpish. MJ know how to use the media too.
    no i didnt watch The Jackson,s An American Dream but if it is true as u said that his brothers deferredto him, that he is the only one who was able to stand up to his father, that he is the boss...i surmise this may be due to the fact that he is the most talented of the bunch, that he does not get his father's goat the way the other kids do bec. he learns fast, and he can actrually come up to Gordy for suggestions bec. it is him who is full of ideas.

    His talent,datsymay, is his only weapon

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Master S View Post
    Didn't he also say that he would sometime want to faint at his father's presence? Or are we speculating that he made that up?
    Yes, I do. MJ is not perfect. I don't expect him to be. I watched a video of MJ stopping in midflow of a game to go beg his father to come join in the fun, the way mj talked to his dad MJ sounded like he was the boss. He was about 11 then. Don't sound scared to me.:mello:If he wasn't scared of Joe then I doubt he would have been scared later when he was getting older.
    Mr Jackson was very strong and powerful, and he was scary in a way, but not without a sense of humour, although it was clear that all the children had a huge amount of respect for their dad.
    'I had a set opinion of the family beforehand and, because my perception of them changed while making the film, ...They came across as a steady, committed family, whereas it was the people around them who were scrabbling in the dirt. British reporter.

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Datsymay View Post
    It was a bit of exaggeration, but it has always implied in the whippings when kids are being desciplined. In fact if you watched The jackson, american dream, there was a scene where Joe had Jackie moving bricks, and when jackie asked why, he told him that he wanted him to be prepared for what was to come,.That was implied in that bit of excersie that he was trying to kep him out of trouble.
    The implication is speculation. Cuz in the movie, that was MOVING BRICKS, not GETTING BEAT and being called names and such LOL Moving bricks in non violent and hard work...that keeps them busy instead of doing stupid stuff...getting beating takes no time at all lol



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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by wannabestartinsomthin21 View Post
    Right mello. That's exactly right. Each person is simply going to be impacted differently, that's all. I think it's only fair to Michael to at least respect his feelings on the issue. My mother was treated in a not so freindly way by her mother, she got slapped, etc... And it really had a big impact on her. My aunt used to get regularly beat by her mother and it caused a lot of resentment and anger in her. It had a big impact. It depends on each person. I just don't think it's the right approach because you never know if it is going to end up really messing your kids up or not.
    I agree with this as well. Joe is who he is, but so is Michael. The interesting thing here is that they are more alike than not. Except that MJ decides to handle the discipline of his children differently than his parents. Smart peeps take the best of their parents traits and dump the worst.

    For me, I'm not against spanking, but in anger, some parents can and do get out of control. I know that I'm in the minority on this now, as it is generally frowned upon. Yet I can say that for me and others I know, it had no negative effects. Basically it taught me and others I know right from wrong in ways you don't forget. Not saying I would incorporate it either, but in my opinion, it's not the god-awful thing that many make it out to be today. Again, just my opinion on that.

    Back to MJ, my thought is that the very grueling nature of show business as a child performer has left a bitter taste in his mouth about it. While there are many things that he loved about that time, what obviously stays with him is the time not spent as a family unit that he regrets the most second to his strict and restrictive upbringing. It's clear in how he interfaces with his children that as a parent, he wants to be there for them as a family and not necessarily off somewhere for 6-10 months at a time on a perpetural world tour. He wants to experience their wonder, observations and curiosities as well as to develop a life bond with them so that they will have little regrets or question about his devotion to them.


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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Datsymay View Post
    Yes, I do. MJ is not perfect. I don't expect him to be. I watched a video of MJ stopping in midflow of a game to go beg his father to come join in the fun, the way mj talked to his dad MJ sounded like he was the boss. He was about 11 then. Don't sound scared to me.:mello:If he wasn't scared of Joe then I doubt he would have been scared later when he was getting older.
    Was that in front of a candid camera or something?, cuz of course MJ nor the rest of the family would have shown any dysfunction during that time period lol

    Oh and because MJ was so traumatized that he fainted, means that MJs at fault for that or something?
    Last edited by J5master; 10-02-2008 at 03:01 AM.



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