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Thread: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

   
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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    In fact I kinda compare it to Tina Turner a little. She went through hellacious moments with Ike Turner as her ruler and yet she went on that stage with bruises, being forced out pregnant, bleeding, black-eyed (she had to wear glasses sometimes when she was on TV during the sixties) and yet she eventually left his control and found peace of mind. Michael's situation is quite different since Joe was his father and it's obviously hard to just blame Joe.

    We have a little young kid who begged his father to let him perform and he had to be turned down because he was too little. In fact, when the Jackson 5 first started, he and Marlon played percussionists but Joe told the both of them that they were too young to sing and dance. Michael eventually got in around the time he was seven as at least a co-lead and Michael provided the missing spark from the group so Joe pushed him the hardest.

    It wasn't really so much the abuse (or hard-ass discipline) that traumatized Michael, it was Joe's reaction to his and his brothers' performances. He never knew how to show love for his children or appreciation for their performances. Michael also suffered the effects of being a Jehovah's Witness in the brisk of a rising career as an entertainer at the age of 11, being told by PR to shorten his age so he can look cuter and dealing with off-stage antics that his brothers and father got into because they were now rock stars. Michael faced a lot of dilemma and went into so much bull, no wonder you can say by the time he was 18 that he still felt like he was 11 because Michael was scared to "grow up" because he felt that growing up meant you had no heart and he surrounded himself with children for that reason.

    The problem with that was even if it was nice that Michael seem to win kids' hearts, it was still wrong by societal standards. In the early years of his burgeoning solo fame, Michael had a good team of people keeping him from being too open about it, by "Thriller", Michael felt that he should share his love for things that traditionally kids under 18 were into like Disney and stuff. But he also felt like an old man on stage, people used to tell him in the sixties that he was like a "40-year-old midget" and I guess a part of Michael felt 40 years older than he really was, so here's a young man going through a dilemma. That could also explain why some of his friends were very YOUNG (Emmanuel Lewis, Macaulay Culkin, Brett Barnes, etc.) and very OLD (Elizabeth Taylor, Gregory Peck, Katharine Hepburn, etc.)

    And that's what made "Living with Michael Jackson" a sad documentary because while it obviously had good moments like him showcasing his playful side and sharing the time with underprivileged kids from the inner city (not the ones Mike Epps referred to in his comedy special) it showed a man who was tormented by a lot of people, used by a lot of people and having so many demons that it was so hard for him to explain to an idiot like Martin Bash-His-Face why he does what he does. And that was definitely something of a set-up because it brought him to the stupid trial that came with him and that "boy" that he "saved from cancer". And the saddest of it all was that Michael shouldn't even have to answer back when people were criticizing him for the LWMJ docu that he went on and did TWO more specials to say "look I'm not crazy". I would think he have a "I don't give a damn" attitude during the first docu but it was obvious Michael was trying to tell people "look you don't know me".

    And to tell you the truth, that documentary still didn't really tell me who Michael Jackson is (I think the Home Movies did tho) because Bash-It chose to twist Michael into weird directions. To this day, I still question why the hell Michael Joe Jackson, Sr. had to do that stupid interview. If he had went to ED BRADLEY in the first go-round, I don't even think we'd be mentioning "trial" and "Michael Jackson" in the same sentence.

    It's even sadder that such a f***ed-up documentary as Bash-It's was made some of y'all younger members FANS in the first place of his music when you could've learned about him earlier but then again I understand.
    Last edited by troubleman84; 10-02-2008 at 03:22 AM.


    "OK, first of all, I have this skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin. It's something that I cannot help. Okay? But when people make up stories that I don't wanna be what I am, it hurts me. It's a problem for me, okay? I can't control it. But let's reverse it. What about all the millions of people who sit out in the sun to become other than what they are?" -- Michael Jackson (1993)

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Datsymay, you're dismissing Michael's own words. I take Michael's own descriptions of what happened over some made for tv film which was produced by Jermaine and his ex-wife. Jermaine is the one sibling who is always trying to make the Jackson's seem like the perfect family, but even he admits that beatings took place. His take on it is different then Michael's. Again, that comes down to each person being affected differently.

    Michael loves his father, but he's also spoken about wanting his father to show him love in return and he never got that when he needed it. His father called the shots when they were kids. When Michael grew up, he severed his ties with his father and went off on his own.

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Plus, I think if I was Michael's age at the time, hitting my father with a shoe wouldn't be right either! :lol:


    "OK, first of all, I have this skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin. It's something that I cannot help. Okay? But when people make up stories that I don't wanna be what I am, it hurts me. It's a problem for me, okay? I can't control it. But let's reverse it. What about all the millions of people who sit out in the sun to become other than what they are?" -- Michael Jackson (1993)

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Only time, and Michael's voice, will tell about this. It is complicated. Who can say that if Michael had been able to grow up as a normal child, he would not have ascended later as a super-star anyway? As it was, he raised himself and his family out of poverty. and only Michael is to say what the cost was to him. IMHO, no parent should beat a child, not EVER. I heard Michael's words on "Living With", and I saw his genuine tears. . and I believe him. Both that he was terribly hurt as a child, and that he has forgiven. . .

    Vic
    Last edited by Autumn II; 10-02-2008 at 03:20 AM.

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Datsymay View Post
    Oacism did have a part to play in the whole saga. I thought that was the message I was tying to convey, but perhaps you see it differently. I am not an american, and I see things differently.
    Ah. That explains it. Or maybe it doesn't explain it! It can be rather crazy over herr in da states with that...


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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by mello1 View Post
    LOL... actually I think he did so because he was being a bad azz! I've seen kids do that -- it's called being defiant. That is why they are more alike than not...

    But I don't doubt that he was scared though. But the fainting and the vomiting later, I think and again my opinion only, is that he didn't like the pressure coming from Joe and his brothers to carry them. Because he didn't want to hurt them and say NO, I don't want to do this and that with y'all -- I'm trying to do my own thing here...

    And that is what I think was the beginning of his real problems because once you get isolated from your family for whatever reasons, the snakes and sharks and true manipulators move in and start twisting your head all around. Next thing you know, you don't know who to trust. Look at Britney Spears. The same thing is happening with her. Typical stage parents who squeezed just a little too tightly. Britney defies them in her quest to be her own person. Then here comes the two bit managers and hangers-on who don't a bit more care about her than they do the man in the moon. And she goes down as a result of it all.

    That is why these celebs MUST have very strong family units going into the business and not let anything come between them, because if that happens and you happen to be the bread winner, the criminal hustles will move in for the kill.
    Okay, that's fair. But Michael has said he used to faint and vomit because he was scared of his father. I'm just going off of what he himself says. I don't like to speculate because we aren't him, ya know.

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    Datsymay's Avatar
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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by gemini27 View Post
    He is timid. that's the effect of the relentless teasing he got from his father. Ok. so maybe Joe didnt realize it had a negative effect on Michael's self-esteem but aren't parents supposed to be our biggest ally? Arent they suppose to boost our confidence and not be the first to make us feel bad?

    And no, he is not a whimp. He would not have lasted this long if he is.
    There was no relentless teasing. You talk like you think Joseph is senile or foolish, People don't sit down an tease people relentlessly. The jacksons were a family that played with each other. joseph DID pay wih his kids. Michael asked Joseh to come and play pillow fights with them Obviously joe played with them. Joe sometimes climed through the window and scared his children. He was playing with them. MJ does that a lot too. That is why we have Thriller and ghost. MJ loves scaring people, he got that from his father,.Joe used to play with his children . When Jackie was asked in an interview what they like to do, Jackie said they TEASED each other. MJ took part in the teasing, so did Joe. Michael called janet names. He called jermaine names, he called Randy names, yet Michael complained that he got teased. Give me a break.
    Mr Jackson was very strong and powerful, and he was scary in a way, but not without a sense of humour, although it was clear that all the children had a huge amount of respect for their dad.
    'I had a set opinion of the family beforehand and, because my perception of them changed while making the film, ...They came across as a steady, committed family, whereas it was the people around them who were scrabbling in the dirt. British reporter.

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Randy getting beat for not doing a move right.....nooottt for being a badazz. LOL I honestly think that a lot of the time, the beatings werent because of rebellion or being bad or whatever...i think most of the time the defiance CAME from Joe being so hard on them and plain out mean.

    But thats a digression, i dont really know, but thats my opinion.



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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by J5master View Post
    Randy getting beat for not doing a move right.....nooottt for being a badazz. LOL I honestly think that a lot of the time, the beatings werent because of rebellion or being bad or whatever...i think most of the time the defiance CAME from Joe being so hard on them and plain out mean.

    But thats a digression, i dont really know, but thats my opinion.
    IMHO, no child should be beaten.

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by troubleman84 View Post
    Michael also suffered the effects of being a Jehovah's Witness in the brisk of a rising career as an entertainer...
    I don't think that this point can be overstated. I could never really understand how anyone could be in the entertainment business as a practicing Jehovah Witness. It just doesn't work on many levels.


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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by troubleman84 View Post
    In fact I kinda compare it to Tina Turner a little. She went through hellacious moments with Ike Turner as her ruler and yet she went on that stage with bruises, being forced out pregnant, bleeding, black-eyed (she had to wear glasses sometimes when she was on TV during the sixties) and yet she eventually left his control and found peace of mind. Michael's situation is quite different since Joe was his father and it's obviously hard to just blame Joe.

    We have a little young kid who begged his father to let him perform and he had to be turned down because he was too little. In fact, when the Jackson 5 first started, he and Marlon played percussionists but Joe told the both of them that they were too young to sing and dance. Michael eventually got in around the time he was seven as at least a co-lead and Michael provided the missing spark from the group so Joe pushed him the hardest.

    It wasn't really so much the abuse (or hard-ass discipline) that traumatized Michael, it was Joe's reaction to his and his brothers' performances. He never knew how to show love for his children or appreciation for their performances. Michael also suffered the effects of being a Jehovah's Witness in the brisk of a rising career as an entertainer at the age of 11, being told by PR to shorten his age so he can look cuter and dealing with off-stage antics that his brothers and father got into because they were now rock stars. Michael faced a lot of dilemma and went into so much bull, no wonder you can say by the time he was 18 that he still felt like he was 11 because Michael was scared to "grow up" because he felt that growing up meant you had no heart and he surrounded himself with children for that reason.

    The problem with that was even if it was nice that Michael seem to win kids' hearts, it was still wrong by societal standards. In the early years of his burgeoning solo fame, Michael had a good team of people keeping him from being too open about it, by "Thriller", Michael felt that he should share his love for things that traditionally kids under 18 were into like Disney and stuff. But he also felt like an old man on stage, people used to tell him in the sixties that he was like a "40-year-old midget" and I guess a part of Michael felt 40 years older than he really was, so here's a young man going through a dilemma. That could also explain why some of his friends were very YOUNG (Emmanuel Lewis, Macaulay Culkin, Brett Barnes, etc.) and very OLD (Elizabeth Taylor, Gregory Peck, Katharine Hepburn, etc.)

    And that's what made "Living with Michael Jackson" a sad documentary because while it obviously had good moments like him showcasing his playful side and sharing the time with underprivileged kids from the inner city (not the ones Mike Epps referred to in his comedy special) it showed a man who was tormented by a lot of people, used by a lot of people and having so many demons that it was so hard for him to explain to an idiot like Martin Bash-His-Face why he does what he does. And that was definitely something of a set-up because it brought him to the stupid trial that came with him and that "boy" that he "saved from cancer". And the saddest of it all was that Michael shouldn't even have to answer back when people were criticizing him for the LWMJ docu that he went on and did TWO more specials to say "look I'm not crazy". I would think he have a "I don't give a damn" attitude during the first docu but it was obvious Michael was trying to tell people "look you don't know me".

    And to tell you the truth, that documentary still didn't really tell me who Michael Jackson is (I think the Home Movies did tho) because Bash-It chose to twist Michael into weird directions. To this day, I still question why the hell Michael Joe Jackson, Sr. had to do that stupid interview. If he had went to ED BRADLEY in the first go-round, I don't even think we'd be mentioning "trial" and "Michael Jackson" in the same sentence.

    It's even sadder that such a f***ed-up documentary as Bash-It's was made some of y'all younger members FANS in the first place of his music when you could've learned about him earlier but then again I understand.
    That's an excellent post Timmy. Good job.

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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Datsymay View Post
    There was no relentless teasing. You talk like you think Joseph is senile or foolish, People don't sit down an tease people relentlessly. The jacksons were a family that played with each other. joseph DID pay wih his kids. Michael asked Joseh to come and play pillow fights with them Obviously joe played with them. Joe sometimes climed through the window and scared his children. He was playing with them. MJ does that a lot too. That is why we have Thriller and ghost. MJ loves scaring people, he got that from his father,.Joe used to play with his children . When Jackie was asked in an interview what they like to do, Jackie said they TEASED each other. MJ took part in the teasing, so did Joe. Michael called janet names. He called jermaine names, he called Randy names, yet Michael complained that he got teased. Give me a break.
    Are you kidding me?
    Either way it goes the teasing was uncalled for and is also something that I disagree with. Playing or not. MJs older brothers and siblings is one story but from your FATHER is another. If everyone was on the same page and labeled themselves a family that 'played'...MJ and others wouldn't have taken it so seriously.

    And also, there's probably TONS of instances that MJ never talked about and we'll probably never hear.

    And believe me, Thriller and Ghosts PROBABLY didnt come out of that :lol:



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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria83 View Post
    IMHO, no child should be beaten.
    I agree..........



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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by wannabestartinsomthin21 View Post
    Okay, that's fair. But Michael has said he used to faint and vomit because he was scared of his father. I'm just going off of what he himself says. I don't like to speculate because we aren't him, ya know.
    Of course. Scared of having to face him, knowing that he had some next 'big deal' that he wanted MJ's involvment in. Knowing that Joe could intimidate him into doing it. Best defense is to surround yourself with layers of 'handlers'. That's my interpretation of it.


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    Default Re: My thoughts on Living With Michael Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by mello1 View Post
    I don't think that this point can be overstated. I could never really understand how anyone could be in the entertainment business as a practicing Jehovah Witness. It just doesn't work on many levels.
    Yeah, and the teachings he was given while a JW was so different to what he was being introduced as a teen pop star of the seventies. The seventies was the epitome of sex, drugs and rock & roll. Michael was being thrust into the top of the pop apex both with and without his brothers and he had sexual favors and drug favors in his face. Plus we don't know how really traumatic it was for Michael to deal with being who he was: young, black, gifted, successful and yet so lonely in his heart. We just don't know and probably never will. Least now, I'm thinking Michael is slowly getting the peace of mind that he never got in the first 46 years of his life.


    "OK, first of all, I have this skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin. It's something that I cannot help. Okay? But when people make up stories that I don't wanna be what I am, it hurts me. It's a problem for me, okay? I can't control it. But let's reverse it. What about all the millions of people who sit out in the sun to become other than what they are?" -- Michael Jackson (1993)

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