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Thread: Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

   
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    Default Tupac 1995 letter to Madonna up for auction

    By Travis M. Andrews July 6, 2017 Washington Post

    It seems like a relationship between rapper Tupac Shakur and pop superstar Madonna at the height of their careers would have been fodder for the world’s tabloids. Instead, it was mostly rumor. And, as with so much of Tupac’s life, many of the specific details were lost with his death in 1996.

    In place of a firsthand account, we’re left with an oral history pieced together by those who knew the couple. Madonna herself hasn’t been particularly forthcoming about the relationship, aside from confirming it and offering a few scant details in 2015.

    However, a recently surfaced letter, written by Tupac to Madonna, offers a rare insight into the late rapper’s life. It appears to be a break-up letter, but it hinted at just how calculated aspects of Tupac’s character were, particularly with regard to race.

    The letter was addressed simply to “M” and was dated Jan. 15, 1995, which coincided with his time at New York’s Clinton Correctional Facility for sexual assault. It was first published Wednesday by TMZ with four sections redacted. Rolling Stone said it confirmed the letter’s authenticity.

    It will be up for auction with a starting bid of $100,000 at the Gotta Have Rock and Roll sale, which is scheduled for July 19 to 28. It was uncertain how the letter wound up in circulation.

    In it, Tupac seemed to admit to breaking up with Madonna because she was white.

    “For you to be seen with a black man wouldn’t in any way jeopardize your career, if anything it would make you seem that much more open and exciting,” Tupac wrote. “But for me at least in my previous perception I felt due to my ‘image’ that I would be letting down half of the people who made me what I thought I was.”

    “Like you said, I haven’t been the kind of friend I know I am capable of being,” he wrote, adding, “I never meant to hurt you.”
    By his “image,” Tupac was likely referring to his status as an activist and social critic focusing on the perils faced by America’s black communities through his music.

    “I’m not saying I’m gonna change the world, but I guarantee that I will spark the brain that will change the world,” he once said.

    His parents were both Black Panthers, and he was named for “Túpac Amaru, a South American revolutionary who led an uprising against his imperial Spanish colonizers,” according to HipHopDX.

    His lyrics were often tinged with anger at the systematic oppression of black Americans. On “Words of Wisdom,” for example, he rapped:
    Emancipation Proclamation? Please
    Lincoln just said that to save the nation
    These are lies that we all accepted
    Say no to drugs but the governments’ kept it
    And yet, they say this is the Home of The Free
    But if you ask me, it’s all about hypocrisy

    In the letter, Tupac also alluded to being hurt because Madonna in an interview said “’I’m off to rehabilitate all the rappers and basketball players’ or something to that effect.”

    “Those words cut me deep seeing how I had never known you to be with any rappers besides myself,” he wrote. “It was at this moment out of hurt and a natural instinct to strike back and defend my heart and ego that I said a lot of things.”

    “It no longer matters how I’m perceived,” he wrote. “Please understand my previous position as that of a young man with limited experience with a extremely famous sex symbol.”

    Though the note was conciliatory — he offered “my friendship once again, this time much stronger and focused” — it took an ominous turn at the end.

    “I felt compelled to tell you … just in case anything happened to me,” he wrote, adding, “Please be careful Madonna. Everyone is not as honorable as they seem. There are those whose hearts bleed with envy and evil. They would not hesitate to do you harm.”

    Tupac was killed in a drive-by shooting the next year.

    Madonna hasn’t said much about her relationship with Tupac, though she did once tell Howard Stern that he was responsible for her now infamous interview on “The Late Show with David Letterman” during which she used profanity, sexual innuendo and ignored several of Letterman’s questions.

    “I was in a weird mood that day,” Madonna told Stern of the interview. “I was dating Tupac Shakur at the time, and he had got me all riled up about life in general. So when I went on the show I was feeling very gangster.”

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    Default Re: Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

    The Tupac letter is so interesting. I never knew they were together, I kind of followed Tupac in 1995/96 when I really dug gangsta rap, even though I liked his more positive stuff like Dear Mama and Keep your head up.

    Madonna would date him though, she loved men of all types and stripes and would have been attracted to Pac's bad boy image, although I suspect in his heart Pac was a really nice and sensitive guy who used the gangsta image as part of the record selling thing. The letter if real shows a real sensitivity on Pac's part and makes out Madge was being a bitch with him.

    My favourite album is Erotica, so adventorous and bold and some well written songs (Bad Girl, Deeper and Deeper, Erotica, Thief of Hearts etc) and really is a grower. Like Tony I love her classic tracks and love me some 80s Madonna. True Blue and Like a Prayer. No filler at all. Madonna and Like a Virgin are good too, but have filler on them, still Borderline is a perfect song and one of my favourites.

    My absolute Madonna favourite song is Justify my Love (She reached Perfection between Prayer and Erotica) and Vogue is right up there too.

    Not so crazy about post Music Madonna (Music is a good album), American Life is dreadful, Confessions is Okay, but suffers from sameness and Hard Candy is surprisingly good. I confess I have not heard MDNA but have Rebel heart and find it hit and miss. Ghost Town and Icon are top notch and Bitch I'm Madonna is funny, but really can't get into the rest yet.

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    Default Re: Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

    ^ American Life is her best album mate!
    I CAN'T TAKE IT 'COS I'M TONY

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    Default Re: Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

    Hard Candy is possibly my favourite from her post-Music era. Rebel Heart yeah hit and miss but some great tracks on it, especially the Super Deluxe. The hate and backlash it got was harsh in my opinion, and predictable.

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    Default Re: Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony R View Post
    I think this will unfortunately follow the way MDNA was shot. Lots of cutaways, slow motion shots and massive crowd noise. Still looks amazing though. Great mix of over the top theatrics as well as some more intimate moments.
    Incredible tour and the only time I've seen her live. But the tour DVD/Blu Ray was way over the top. It's way too edited, ridiculously so. The fan-shot amatuers on YouTube capture the brilliance of the tour much better IMO.

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    Default Re: Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

    Quote Originally Posted by aazzaabb View Post
    Hard Candy is possibly my favourite from her post-Music era. Rebel Heart yeah hit and miss but some great tracks on it, especially the Super Deluxe. The hate and backlash it got was harsh in my opinion, and predictable.
    Problem with Rebel Heart is that it suffered from poor quality control. It could have been an amazing 11 track album, her best for years. But some of teh best songs (notably the title track) were only on the deluxe versions.

    Also, like MDNA, poor choice of lead Madonna-by-numbers singles. She should have led with a ballad. Ghosttown is her best single in years and best ballad since Take A Bow, but it did nothing. Then ****ing releasing 'Bitch I'm Madonna'? Jesus.

    But some fantastic songs on there. I'd encourage anyone to stream Rebel Heart, Ghosttown, Devil Pray for starters.

    The Tour is out in September I believe, massively late and if it's like the one that was on Showtime, then unfortunately again it's very over-edited. Looks like it was an amazing show though with lots of extras. She performed one very special different track each night, including Take A Bow, the only time she's sung it on tour so I hope that's included. Also hopefully the full 'Tears Of A Clown' show.
    I CAN'T TAKE IT 'COS I'M TONY

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    Default Re: Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony R View Post
    Problem with Rebel Heart is that it suffered from poor quality control. It could have been an amazing 11 track album, her best for years. But some of teh best songs (notably the title track) were only on the deluxe versions.

    Also, like MDNA, poor choice of lead Madonna-by-numbers singles. She should have led with a ballad. Ghosttown is her best single in years and best ballad since Take A Bow, but it did nothing. Then ****ing releasing 'Bitch I'm Madonna'? Jesus.

    But some fantastic songs on there. I'd encourage anyone to stream Rebel Heart, Ghosttown, Devil Pray for starters.

    The Tour is out in September I believe, massively late and if it's like the one that was on Showtime, then unfortunately again it's very over-edited. Looks like it was an amazing show though with lots of extras. She performed one very special different track each night, including Take A Bow, the only time she's sung it on tour so I hope that's included. Also hopefully the full 'Tears Of A Clown' show.
    I really like the MDNA album, actually that along with Hard Candy are my 2 favourites from Music onwards. You make a great point about Rebel Heart; there's a great 11 track album in there! And I can't understand why one of its best tracks 'Rebel Heart isint on the standard album of it's namesake?

    There's a few reasons to it I think, there's a need to stay relevant and put more of what appeals to a younger audience and there's also a need to give the long term core fanbase a few great reasons to buy the super deluxe. At the end of the day the tracks can be bought online via streaming so track sequencing on a modern pop album isn't as important today as it once was. Her fans will buy everything, the casuals pick and choose.

    Again, with the live DVD's she's staying relevant with all the over-editing, but there's really no need as her concerts are among the best out there and can stand on their own without all the added hype graphics and edits. She should scale that back a lot. Perhaps she wants the DVD to be it's oen thing, it's own statement, seperate from the tour but it's very distracting. I don't the dvd of MDNA does justice to how great the live show was. But again, there's always YouTube for that and she puts her heart into every project she does.

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    Default Re: Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

    Quote Originally Posted by aazzaabb View Post
    There's a few reasons to it I think, there's a need to stay relevant and put more of what appeals to a younger audience and there's also a need to give the long term core fanbase a few great reasons to buy the super deluxe. At the end of the day the tracks can be bought online via streaming so track sequencing on a modern pop album isn't as important today as it once was. Her fans will buy everything, the casuals pick and choose.
    The issue is the reviews, Madonna has a lot of casual fans who will buy if they hear it's a great album (e.g. Ray of Light got amazing reviews & led to big sales), if RH would have got better reviews (it got good ones but not great) based on a great 11 track album then it would have led to better sales.

    But I maintain that similar to YRMW for Invincible, if the lead single would have been better it would have made all the difference. Also you can't fall off stage to a ballad!
    I CAN'T TAKE IT 'COS I'M TONY

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    Default Re: Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony R View Post
    The issue is the reviews, Madonna has a lot of casual fans who will buy if they hear it's a great album (e.g. Ray of Light got amazing reviews & led to big sales), if RH would have got better reviews (it got good ones but not great) based on a great 11 track album then it would have led to better sales.

    But I maintain that similar to YRMW for Invincible, if the lead single would have been better it would have made all the difference. Also you can't fall off stage to a ballad!
    Was Rebel Heart her Invincible? The same thought crossed my mind about the lead single. The whole ageism thing happened also and yes, falling off the stage and her meltdown moment made everything a bit "out there". I look forward to watching the DVD though. You have to give it to her, Album, Tour, DVD! Every time!

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    Default A P O L O G i Z E





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    Post Snoop talking about Madonna & Tupac on Howard Stern (August 31, 2018)


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    Default Re: Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

    Favorite Madonna Songs

    Angel * Pretender * Where's The Party * Sidewalk Talk (with John Jellybean Benitez/Catherine Buchanan)

    Angel (by Madonna and Stephen Bray)
    Pretender (by Madonna and Stephen Bray)
    Where's The Party (by Madonna, Stephen Bray, Patrick Leonard)
    Sidewalk Talk (by Madonna)

    Catherine Buchanan passed away in the early 2000s from a brain tumor.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7TnfylF9lI
    Last edited by Elton-Cetera; 01-06-2019 at 12:06 PM.

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