The GREATEST Profesional Wrestler of All Time!

KB50MJ

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
540
Points
18
The Greatest professional wrestler of all time.

Rick Flair? Nope

Hulk Hogan? Wrong again

Stone Cold Steve Austin? Not a chance


Tha answer is simple.

The Show Stopper, The Headliner, The Mainevent, Mr. Wrestlemania, The Hearbreak Kid...............Shawn Michaels!!!!

Instead of me sitting here and typing out why that is, just watch this clip and you'll see why that is:



And this is just a closing video for your viewing pleasure. (I especially like the song in this video):

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ust to add a pointer to this thread.

Recently the WWE came out with a DVD called "The Top 50 Greatest WWE superstars of all time" And they based their rankings on the opinions of the current WWE superstars, and they named Shaw Michaels as the greatest of all time at #1
[YOUTUBE]pWZP18VhSFw[/YOUTUBE]







And also, the Heartbreak kid is getting his due by being inducted into the 2011 class of the WWE Hall Of Fame:
[YOUTUBE]X-U_d8fSyOE[/YOUTUBE]
 
Last edited:
I wasn't aware that people over the age of 13 actually liked wrestling.

No offence intended, good for you. ;D
 
I wasn't aware that people over the age of 13 actually liked wrestling.

No offence intended, good for you. ;D

lol. Its cool. But I grew up on wrestling. I don't watch it that much anymore. But I was a BIG fan back in the day.

But there are MANY people of all ages that still watch and love wrestling.
 
Jericho > Michaels

HBK is nothing by a lying, cheating, self-righteous hypocrite who shamelessly pandered to the parasites and germ incubators known as the WWE Universe. That's why he insisted on putting his career on the line against The Undertaker. The Showstopper tried stopping one too many shows, and now the show is over. He has no job. He should have listened to Jericho, who is an honest man and paragon of virtue, as well as the best in the world at what he does and the greatest performer of this or any other generation.

Break the walls down.
 
Jericho > Michaels

HBK is nothing by a lying, cheating, self-righteous hypocrite who shamelessly pandered to the parasites and germ incubators known as the WWE Universe. That's why he insisted on putting his career on the line against The Undertaker. The Showstopper tried stopping one too many shows, and now the show is over. He has no job. He should have listened to Jericho, who is an honest man and paragon of virtue, as well as the best in the world at what he does and the greatest performer of this or any other generation.

Break the walls down.

Na. I have to disagree with everything you just said.

If you watched the clip, Jericho said himself that HBK was THE best to ever do it.

HBK is a master showman to the end. Did you see his 2 matches with the undertaker at wrestlmania 25 and 26?

the one at 25 had to be the greatest match ever. Take a look on some lists of the greatest matched ever and HBK is had the most matches on each list.

This guy has accolades in the WWE that most can only dream of.

And it doesn't hurt to add that the match of Jericho's life was at wrestlmania 19 against HBK, which Y2J lost.
 
Chris Jericho is the first ever Undisputed Champion by unifying the WCW and WWF Championships (in case he hasn't mentioned it before, he did this by beating The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin back-to-back on the same night), the last ever WCW Champion by default, a six time World Champion , and record-holding nine time Intercontinental Champion. Additionally he has wrestled all around the world prior to his epic WWE tenure, accruing a plethora of accolades in Japan and Mexico to boot. Furthermore, Jericho exposed Michaels as the liar and hypocrite that he is, punched HBK's jezebel wife right in the mouth, destroyed HBK time and time again before finally beating him in his very own ladder match. Before Shawn Michaels was banished from the WWE by The Undertaker, he hadn't won a World Title in about a decade. He is a failure and Jericho is a winner.

Break the walls down.
 
Chris Jericho is the first ever Undisputed Champion by unifying the WCW and WWF Championships (in case he hasn't mentioned it before, he did this by beating The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin back-to-back on the same night), the last ever WCW Champion by default, a six time World Champion , and record-holding nine time Intercontinental Champion. Additionally he has wrestled all around the world prior to his epic WWE tenure, accruing a plethora of accolades in Japan and Mexico to boot. Furthermore, Jericho exposed Michaels as the liar and hypocrite that he is, punched HBK's jezebel wife right in the mouth, destroyed HBK time and time again before finally beating him in his very own ladder match. Before Shawn Michaels was banished from the WWE by The Undertaker, he hadn't won a World Title in about a decade. He is a failure and Jericho is a winner.

Break the walls down.

Shawn Michael's has been in the business for 20 years. He created and the ladder match. He won the first ever Iron man match, and the first elimination chamber. Hes the first ever grandslam winner and he was the first person to enter at #1 in the royal rumble and win it. He even one the next years royal rumble.

He has also won a record 10 slammy awards. How many has Jericho won?

Jericho likes to take cheep shoots. Thats all hes good for. HBK has beaten Jericho on many occasions. Jericho is all talk and no game. HBK is all talk and all game. Her actually delivers.

And so what if he hasn't won many championships in the last few years. Like the guy in the video said, it doesn't matter if hes the champion, it doesn't matter if he wins or looses. All that matters is that the match everyone remembers that night, was the one Shawn Michael's had.

The same can't be said for Jericho,
 
Shawn Michael's has been in the business for 20 years. He created and the ladder match. He won the first ever Iron man match, and the first elimination chamber. Hes the first ever grandslam winner and he was the first person to enter at #1 in the royal rumble and win it. He even one the next years royal rumble.

He has also won a record 10 slammy awards. How many has Jericho won?

Jericho likes to take cheep shoots. Thats all hes good for. HBK has beaten Jericho on many occasions. Jericho is all talk and no game. HBK is all talk and all game. Her actually delivers.

And so what if he hasn't won many championships in the last few years. Like the guy in the video said, it doesn't matter if hes the champion, it doesn't matter if he wins or looses. All that matters is that the match everyone remembers that night, was the one Shawn Michael's had.

The same can't be said for Jericho,

Jericho has won a Slammy every time the Slammys have been conducted while he has actually been in the WWE. I'm not sure why you think Slammys are as important as actual championships, but I expect nothing more from supporters of an ego-maniac like HBK.

And I know you're not seriously criticizing Jericho for taking "cheapshots" if you've been a follower of Shawn Michaels for his entire career. He has cheated more times than I care to remember and is the ULTIMATE back-stabber. That, my friend, makes you a hy-po-crite. There's that magical word again. Rolls off the tongue quite nicely.

Shawn Michaels has never owned Chris Jericho even a fraction of how much Jericho owned him in their last rivalry. It would take too long for me to list all the brutality that Je-ri-cho inflicted upon the disruptive influence known as HBK in that feud, and in the end he emerged victorious, because he's the best in the world at what he does.

The stuff about losing and winning titles not mattering is quite ironic coming from someone who also bragged about Shawn Michaels beating Jericho in their WrestleMania match. Whch is it? Do wins and losses and titles matter or do they not? And if they don't matter, then why brag about any match HBK has ever won?

Why are HBK fans such hypocrites?

Actually, that's an unfair statement. All wrestling fans are hypocrites, the entire WWE universe... except for Chris Jericho and his followers.
 
I'm just going to first say that I am NOT a wrestling fan but my older brother is a huge fan, has been since he was in diapers. haha.
Shawn Michaels was always his favorite wrestler of all time, still to this day. When I read the title of this thread I immediately thought of Michaels. haha. His theme song is playing in my head. lol. But yeah, that's about all I know about him.
 
Jericho has won a Slammy every time the Slammys have been conducted while he has actually been in the WWE. I'm not sure why you think Slammys are as important as actual championships, but I expect nothing more from supporters of an ego-maniac like HBK.

And I know you're not seriously criticizing Jericho for taking "cheapshots" if you've been a follower of Shawn Michaels for his entire career. He has cheated more times than I care to remember and is the ULTIMATE back-stabber. That, my friend, makes you a hy-po-crite. There's that magical word again. Rolls off the tongue quite nicely.

Shawn Michaels has never owned Chris Jericho even a fraction of how much Jericho owned him in their last rivalry. It would take too long for me to list all the brutality that Je-ri-cho inflicted upon the disruptive influence known as HBK in that feud, and in the end he emerged victorious, because he's the best in the world at what he does.

The stuff about losing and winning titles not mattering is quite ironic coming from someone who also bragged about Shawn Michaels beating Jericho in their WrestleMania match. Whch is it? Do wins and losses and titles matter or do they not? And if they don't matter, then why brag about any match HBK has ever won?

Why are HBK fans such hypocrites?

Actually, that's an unfair statement. All wrestling fans are hypocrites, the entire WWE universe... except for Chris Jericho and his followers.



I am a tad confuse. You are stomping all over wrestling especially the fans. Yet you know way too much about the fake world of wrestling.
 
I was once a misguided gelatinous tapeworm until Chris Jericho led me down the right path.
 
BTW, Jericho is my favorite wrestler but I'm totally fucking with you guys. Felt appropriate for an HBK thread. Now off to bed I go.
 
and they say kayfabe is dead lol


Shawn Michaels by a mile, Jericho and the others cant compare to Michaels on the level he has performed at. He is one of the guys that makes you suspend belief that what you are watching is entertainment. That makes him one of the best, only the best can do this, i.e Ric Flair, Terry Funk in their prime as a couple of examples. Undertaker is another great.
 
This thread has made me laugh! :D I grew up in the golden age of WWE(was F). Huge fan back in the day staying up to watch Wrestlemania and I even got to watch Summerslam '92 at Wembley :D

My favourites have always been Bret Hart, Stone Cold, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Brutus The Barbar Beefcake ( lol ), I even liked Tatanka for a while :p But one wrestler that freaked me out as a kid was Papa Shango :mello:
 
Eddie Guerrero is my favourite of all time.

But about Jericho vs. Michaels, I gotta say that Michaels is better. Watch some mid-90s stuff from Michaels or mid-00s. Hmm, Iron Man match Shawn Michaels versus Bret Hart. One of the best matches ever!
 
Jericho has won a Slammy every time the Slammys have been conducted while he has actually been in the WWE. I'm not sure why you think Slammys are as important as actual championships, but I expect nothing more from supporters of an ego-maniac like HBK.

And I know you're not seriously criticizing Jericho for taking "cheapshots" if you've been a follower of Shawn Michaels for his entire career. He has cheated more times than I care to remember and is the ULTIMATE back-stabber. That, my friend, makes you a hy-po-crite. There's that magical word again. Rolls off the tongue quite nicely.

Shawn Michaels has never owned Chris Jericho even a fraction of how much Jericho owned him in their last rivalry. It would take too long for me to list all the brutality that Je-ri-cho inflicted upon the disruptive influence known as HBK in that feud, and in the end he emerged victorious, because he's the best in the world at what he does.

The stuff about losing and winning titles not mattering is quite ironic coming from someone who also bragged about Shawn Michaels beating Jericho in their WrestleMania match. Whch is it? Do wins and losses and titles matter or do they not? And if they don't matter, then why brag about any match HBK has ever won?

Why are HBK fans such hypocrites?

Actually, that's an unfair statement. All wrestling fans are hypocrites, the entire WWE universe... except for Chris Jericho and his followers.

I consider Slammys to be as significant or more significant than championships in a way, becuase ANYONE can win a championship under any circumstance. But a slammy award is based on quality of the match or wrestler. It can't be one by just anyone.

Jericho is just as much as of an Ego maniac as HBK is. Overall HBK has had a much better and accomplished career. NO ONE in the world other than you would say Y2J is better then HBK.
 
Grhm...

I just wanna know: do you guys think wrestling is real?

:'D

Storylines are fake, they dont really punch each other, they protect each other as much as possible when doing moves.

But they get hurt constantly, I dont think non wrestling fans understand that. They break their necks, legs, collar bones, tear muscles, rupture discs, they used to constantly suffer concussions but they have been a lot more careful with that in recent years.

I dont think its fair to say it isnt real when they are in constant pain.

Go and ask Darren Drozdov if its real ;)

The greatest professional wrestler of all time is a matter of opinion really.

Overall, in my opinion its Shawn Michaels. HBK could do it all, and still can although he is now retired.

In terms of star power its Hulk Hogan.

My favourite wrestler of all time is Stone Cold Steve Austin.
 
Grhm...

I just wanna know: do you guys think wrestling is real?

:'D

Storylines are fake, they dont really punch each other, they protect each other as much as possible when doing moves.

But they get hurt constantly, I dont think non wrestling fans understand that. They break their necks, legs, collar bones, tear muscles, rupture discs, they used to constantly suffer concussions but they have been a lot more careful with that in recent years.

I dont think its fair to say it isnt real when they are in constant pain.

Go and ask Darren Drozdov if its real ;)

The greatest professional wrestler of all time is a matter of opinion really.

Overall, in my opinion its Shawn Michaels. HBK could do it all, and still can although he is now retired.

In terms of star power its Hulk Hogan.

My favourite wrestler of all time is Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Exactly. I knew since I became a fan that wrestling was real. But its like a sopopera in a way.

And yes, the punching is face and all but there are times where they really punch each other sometimes. But yea, they do try and protect each other as much as possible.

But most of the action is real.
 
My favourites are Bret "Hitman" Hart, Jeff Hardy, Undertaker, Rey Mysterio, John Cena and HBK.

My favourite Shawn Michaels match is with John Cena at WrestleMania 23. I find many people prefer the Attitude Era, because of Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, DX, Mankind and all that, but to me I think they love the era because they're trying to save Raw from losing ratings to WCW's Nitro, I watch WCW during the time until the beginning of 99'. I hate the theory that people saying wrestling is fake, I wouldn't say it's fake, it's just freakin' SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT people! Injuries happened, like look at Triple H for example he hurts his same knee like I saw back at New Years Revolution in 07'.
 
I consider Slammys to be as significant or more significant than championships in a way,

No.

Overall HBK has had a much better and accomplished career.

Basically, he got a bigger push than Jericho? If you're judging by that, HBK shouldn't be the "greatest pro wrestler of all-time" anyway. Hogan and Austin are bigger icons because they made wrestling cool in the mainstream. More people around the world are familiar with the personas of Hulk and Stone Cold than... probably any other wrestler. You can probably add The Rock to that list too. They are bigger than HBK, more "accomplished," and therefore better according to your own standards that you have applied for HBK > Y2J.

NO ONE in the world other than you would say Y2J is better then HBK.

This statement is just retarded. There are plenty of people who like Jericho more than Michaels and/or think he's better. Admittedly there are way more people who would lean towards Michaels, but once again, he has had way more promotion by WWE in his career than Jericho, who in my estimation was underpushed despite all he's accomplished and it's a testament to his talent that he's still become as big of a star as he has. Surely you've been watching wrestling long enough to discern that bigger push = bigger stars/more fans. There are plenty of wrestling fans, though, who if they had a gun to their head and absolutely had to choose between them would say that Chris Jericho is a little more of a well-rounded performer. And I've been watching wrestling long enough to have an educated opinion on it. He's a better technical wrestler, he's better on the microphone, he's better at playing any given role (more hatable heel and a more entertaining babyface, not to mention he's changed pretty much every single aspect of his character in the past couple years and made it work beautifully), etc. HBK has def put on more "showstopping" match performances than Y2J, but that's not all there is to it. If it was, then HBK would be bigger than Hulk Hogan since he wastes Hogan as a worker, and yet Hogan is eons ahead of Michaels in status. If you're going to make it a popularity contest, then HBK takes a backseat to a few people. Conveniently, though, you're only making it a popularity contest when comparing your favorite wrestler to one who's a little less popular.

I'm a big Shawn Michaels fan actually, he's easily in my top five, but this idea many people have that HBK is undoubtedly beyond the point of debate the greatest performer who has ever stepped foot in a pro wrestling ring and is superior to anyone who has ever performed in the wrestling business is blind markdom. And they get so ruffled when you suggest that somebody else is better, which is why I always go for it.

Like if you point out how the entire time that HBK was the WWF's top guy, they were getting their asses handed to them by WCW and only when the torch was passed from Michaels to Austin did WWF become number one again.

Or if you point out how in that time that HBK was the WWF's main attraction (at a time when WWF was, once again, getting their asses handed to them by WCW), he played a totally unlikable douche bag who was supposed to be a babyface but got Cena heat by a large portion of the male audience because he played such an annoying obnoxious character. But nooo, HBK > Everyone.

Hogan or Austin for legitimate G.O.A.T. in WWE. Doesn't matter if other wrestlers were better in the ring, because those two made masses of people care about the product in a way nobody else has, and that's really what pro wrestling is all about anyway. If it was to be judged by the criteria of a sport, it wouldn't be scripted :).
 
Last edited:
Why do people get so hung up saying wrestling is fake?

Its one of the most baffling things i've ever come across.

Its never claimed to have been real, its just for entertainment. Like a film, or a TV show......except they do their own stunts and are far from as protected.

The two things that annoy me most that people say are, Michael Jackson is a paedophile and wrestling is fake. For either, they dont have a clue what they are talking about and therefore shouldnt be talking about it.
 
^ Agreed. You might as well watch a movie and repeatedly point out that it's fake.
 
No.



Basically, he got a bigger push than Jericho? If you're judging by that, HBK shouldn't be the "greatest pro wrestler of all-time" anyway. Hogan and Austin are bigger icons because they made wrestling cool in the mainstream. More people around the world are familiar with the personas of Hulk and Stone Cold than... probably any other wrestler. You can probably add The Rock to that list too. They are bigger than HBK, more "accomplished," and therefore better according to your own standards that you have applied for HBK > Y2J.



This statement is just retarded. There are plenty of people who like Jericho more than Michaels and/or think he's better. Admittedly there are way more people who would lean towards Michaels, but once again, he has had way more promotion by WWE in his career than Jericho, who in my estimation was underpushed despite all he's accomplished and it's a testament to his talent that he's still become as big of a star as he has. Surely you've been watching wrestling long enough to discern that bigger push = bigger stars/more fans. There are plenty of wrestling fans, though, who if they had a gun to their head and absolutely had to choose between them would say that Chris Jericho is a little more of a well-rounded performer. And I've been watching wrestling long enough to have an educated opinion on it. He's a better technical wrestler, he's better on the microphone, he's better at playing any given role (more hatable heel and a more entertaining babyface, not to mention he's changed pretty much every single aspect of his character in the past couple years and made it work beautifully), etc. HBK has def put on more "showstopping" match performances than Y2J, but that's not all there is to it. If it was, then HBK would be bigger than Hulk Hogan since he wastes Hogan as a worker, and yet Hogan is eons ahead of Michaels in status. If you're going to make it a popularity contest, then HBK takes a backseat to a few people. Conveniently, though, you're only making it a popularity contest when comparing your favorite wrestler to one who's a little less popular.

I'm a big Shawn Michaels fan actually, he's easily in my top five, but this idea many people have that HBK is undoubtedly beyond the point of debate the greatest performer who has ever stepped foot in a pro wrestling ring and is superior to anyone who has ever performed in the wrestling business is blind markdom. And they get so ruffled when you suggest that somebody else is better, which is why I always go for it.

Like if you point out how the entire time that HBK was the WWF's top guy, they were getting their asses handed to them by WCW and only when the torch was passed from Michaels to Austin did WWF become number one again.

Or if you point out how in that time that HBK was the WWF's main attraction (at a time when WWF was, once again, getting their asses handed to them by WCW), he played a totally unlikable douche bag who was supposed to be a babyface but got Cena heat by a large portion of the male audience because he played such an annoying obnoxious character. But nooo, HBK > Everyone.

Hogan or Austin for legitimate G.O.A.T. in WWE. Doesn't matter if other wrestlers were better in the ring, because those two made masses of people care about the product in a way nobody else has, and that's really what pro wrestling is all about anyway. If it was to be judged by the criteria of a sport, it wouldn't be scripted :).

No no. I was only bringing up HBk's achievements because you started off with listing Y2J's. I know people like Hogan and Austin are WAY more popular than HBK. I was never trying to make it a popularity contest. Even Vince said Stone Cold was THE biggest star in terms of popularity in the WWE. He broke records.

I have to say HBK is a better heel AND a better babyface than Y2J. Because when he was a heel, people absolutely HATED this man back in the day. Both in the ring and in the back. He was even more hated (especially among Canadians) after the Survivor Series of 97'. and when he was a face, people LOVED him to death. He got more cheers than Jericho ever did. And this is not saying HBK got the most cheers ever, that was just something for this whole HBK vs. Y2j debate.

And when I say the greatest of all time, I mean in the ring and not popularity. NO ONE in WWE history has had more iconic and memorable matches as HBK has had. NO ONE.

Did you even watch the first video posted? People like Cena, Jericho, HHH, Jim Ross, Vince McMahon, etc. claiming HBK was the best in ring performer. even the Rick Flair said so himself. Jericho even said HBK was like Lennon and McCartney in the ring.

Of coarse Jericho is talented, but not at HBK's level. Yes Jericho has some edges over HBK, but not to the point where you could say he is better.

HBK had the ability to do something that no one in the WWE could do: Give the people a memorable match, time after time after time again. Not to say that others never put on memorable matches, but HBK has done so non-stop for the last 17 years.

Thats why he is the greatest.
 
No no. I was only bringing up HBk's achievements because you started off with listing Y2J's. I know people like Hogan and Austin are WAY more popular than HBK. I was never trying to make it a popularity contest. Even Vince said Stone Cold was THE biggest star in terms of popularity in the WWE. He broke records.

That was just me trolling in the spirit of Jericho's character though. Y2J does have a more impressive championship resume than HBK, although that's not the most important thing since Triple H is a 13 time World Champion and Austin is still bigger than him.

I have to say HBK is a better heel AND a better babyface than Y2J. Because when he was a heel, people absolutely HATED this man back in the day. Both in the ring and in the back. He was even more hated (especially among Canadians) after the Survivor Series of 97'. and when he was a face, people LOVED him to death. He got more cheers than Jericho ever did. And this is not saying HBK got the most cheers ever, that was just something for this whole HBK vs. Y2j debate.

Nah, I don't see that at all. I don't think Shawn Michaels has ever played as masterful and as hatable of a heel as Jericho in the past couple years. Everything Jericho does manipulates people to hate him based just off his spoken word. He is a "pure heel" in every sense of the phrase; his sole function is to be villainous, whereas Michaels has never really entered or captured that level of unlikability in his performances as a bad guy. Saying that HBK gets more heat in Canada doesn't say much for HBK as an actual performer because that's based on a real life incident that many Canadian fans legitimately have beef with him over. Shawn played it up well, especially in 2005 when he was feuding with Hogan, but he didn't do or say anything Jericho couldn't have done better if he were in the same position.

As a babyface, there was a time when Jericho was getting pops that rivaled The Rock's when The Rock was actually still around, and this was when Y2J was pretty much a MID-CARDER. Off the top of my head I don't remember a mid-carder ever blowing the roof off arenas the way Jericho did in that time... Maybe Austin did back in '97 while he was right on the verge of transitioning into a main-eventer, but I'd have to go back and check it out. If you doubt how popular Jericho actually was, consider that when he first arrived to WWF, he was known only as a cruiserweight from WCW to the WWF fans, and the place absolutely came unglued when the name "JERICHO" was revealed on the titantron as the man behind the mystery countdown. Imagine what level he would be at right now if WWF had ran with him at that exact point and built him up as their top guy. Would he bigger than Austin, Rock, Hogan? Fuck no. Could he have been bigger than Shawn Michaels? Hell yes. In the end, the cards have been dealt and while Jericho isn't as popular as HBK, he's a more despised villain and that's good enough for me since I'm usually a bigger fan of the heels anyway.

And on the microphone, Chris Jericho as a babyface was wittier, funnier, much easier to empathize with, and just all-around a stronger good guy character than HBK in his prime. As a face, I honestly don't think Shawn was ever that great until he came out of retirement and became the respected wily veteran character he's played since then. The past few years have actually been HBK's best work as a babyface. In his younger years, his mic work as a babyface ranged from average to just "good." Not to say he didn't have the occasional "great" promo here and there.

And when I say the greatest of all time, I mean in the ring and not popularity. NO ONE in WWE history has had more iconic and memorable matches as HBK has had. NO ONE.

I already agreed that HBK has put on more memorable matches more often. Jericho might be a better technician, but Shawn is better at putting on edge-of-your-seat type of matches. If you were trying to say that HBK is the greatest in-ring performer of all-time, then that's different. And that's only one aspect of the hundred different aspects of being a pro wrestler in America.

Did you even watch the first video posted? People like Cena, Jericho, HHH, Jim Ross, Vince McMahon, etc. claiming HBK was the best in ring performer. even the Rick Flair said so himself. Jericho even said HBK was like Lennon and McCartney in the ring.

Why do I need to watch a bunch of people's opinions when I have my own? If all those people had said Jericho was better than HBK would you change your mind?

Of coarse Jericho is talented, but not at HBK's level.

LOL, saying Jericho's not even at HBK's level is just fucking stupid. He's too good to say he's not even in the same ballpark as Michaels. I don't know how someone who has seen Jericho's matches with Benoit, Malenko, Mysterio, etc. can say that. HBK isn't the omnipotent god people on the Internet make him out to be. Even as I am giving you my reasons for why I think Jericho is slightly better, I wouldn't say something as absurd as "HBK isn't in his league."

What gets me is that although Shawn Michaels essentially wasn't drawing flies to shit back when he was WWF's golden boy, he is heralded as the greatest of all-time based solely on the assertion that he is the most brilliant "all-around performer" in the history of life, and the fact is that there are a few people who give him a run for his money in this department. I've already talked about Jericho, but look at a guy like Randy Savage...

The Macho Man in his prime was BRILLIANT in the ring (the dude had a captivating edge-of-your-seat match with the ULTIMATE WARRIOR, for Christ's sake), and on the charismatic side of things he had a persona that was so larger-than-life that he was actually comparable to Hulk Freakin' Hogan in popularity at one point. Shit, HBK and Mach are in the same ballpark in the ring when they were both at their best, but Savage absolutely CRUSHES Michaels as a persona. If you combine Macho Man's character with his in-ring ability, it's surprising why more people don't make the argument for him being the best performer. Why is this? Why is it that someone who was such a great worker and was so beloved by millions of people isn't spoken of in the same light as Shawn Michaels when discussing who is the all-time greatest?

The answer is "because WWE says so." They dictate the way a lot of people feel about past legends and who the best is. Not saying you specifically since you're probably a diehard Shawn Michaels fan, but in general. How many times have you heard WWE ring home the point that HBK is the best performer EVAR and that Ric Flair is the biggest legend or whatever else? Now how many times have you heard them give Savage the same props? It's because Shawn Michaels was one of their current stars up until WrestleMania 26, whereas WWE likes to pretend that Macho Man more or less didn't ever exist. Urban legend says it's because he fucked a 15 year old Stephanie McMahon, but who knows? The point is... if the way WWE presented stuff was different, then the general outlook by the fans would be a little different too. What was the biggest and most popular wrestling stable of all-time that drew the most money in the allotted time of their existence? The nWo. But nowadays, does the casual fan give a flying fuck about the nWo? Probably not. They know about DX's legacy, though.

So my point is that I really don't care who "most people" think is the best performer. Most of it is manipulated anyway.

Good debate though.
 
That was just me trolling in the spirit of Jericho's character though. Y2J does have a more impressive championship resume than HBK, although that's not the most important thing since Triple H is a 13 time World Champion and Austin is still bigger than him.



Nah, I don't see that at all. I don't think Shawn Michaels has ever played as masterful and as hatable of a heel as Jericho in the past couple years. Everything Jericho does manipulates people to hate him based just off his spoken word. He is a "pure heel" in every sense of the phrase; his sole function is to be villainous, whereas Michaels has never really entered or captured that level of unlikability in his performances as a bad guy. Saying that HBK gets more heat in Canada doesn't say much for HBK as an actual performer because that's based on a real life incident that many Canadian fans legitimately have beef with him over. Shawn played it up well, especially in 2005 when he was feuding with Hogan, but he didn't do or say anything Jericho couldn't have done better if he were in the same position.

As a babyface, there was a time when Jericho was getting pops that rivaled The Rock's when The Rock was actually still around, and this was when Y2J was pretty much a MID-CARDER. Off the top of my head I don't remember a mid-carder ever blowing the roof off arenas the way Jericho did in that time... Maybe Austin did back in '97 while he was right on the verge of transitioning into a main-eventer, but I'd have to go back and check it out. If you doubt how popular Jericho actually was, consider that when he first arrived to WWF, he was known only as a cruiserweight from WCW to the WWF fans, and the place absolutely came unglued when the name "JERICHO" was revealed on the titantron as the man behind the mystery countdown. Imagine what level he would be at right now if WWF had ran with him at that exact point and built him up as their top guy. Would he bigger than Austin, Rock, Hogan? Fuck no. Could he have been bigger than Shawn Michaels? Hell yes. In the end, the cards have been dealt and while Jericho isn't as popular as HBK, he's a more despised villain and that's good enough for me since I'm usually a bigger fan of the heels anyway.

And on the microphone, Chris Jericho as a babyface was wittier, funnier, much easier to empathize with, and just all-around a stronger good guy character than HBK in his prime. As a face, I honestly don't think Shawn was ever that great until he came out of retirement and became the respected wily veteran character he's played since then. The past few years have actually been HBK's best work as a babyface. In his younger years, his mic work as a babyface ranged from average to just "good." Not to say he didn't have the occasional "great" promo here and there.



I already agreed that HBK has put on more memorable matches more often. Jericho might be a better technician, but Shawn is better at putting on edge-of-your-seat type of matches. If you were trying to say that HBK is the greatest in-ring performer of all-time, then that's different. And that's only one aspect of the hundred different aspects of being a pro wrestler in America.



Why do I need to watch a bunch of people's opinions when I have my own? If all those people had said Jericho was better than HBK would you change your mind?



LOL, saying Jericho's not even at HBK's level is just fucking stupid. He's too good to say he's not even in the same ballpark as Michaels. I don't know how someone who has seen Jericho's matches with Benoit, Malenko, Mysterio, etc. can say that. HBK isn't the omnipotent god people on the Internet make him out to be. Even as I am giving you my reasons for why I think Jericho is slightly better, I wouldn't say something as absurd as "HBK isn't in his league."

What gets me is that although Shawn Michaels essentially wasn't drawing flies to shit back when he was WWF's golden boy, he is heralded as the greatest of all-time based solely on the assertion that he is the most brilliant "all-around performer" in the history of life, and the fact is that there are a few people who give him a run for his money in this department. I've already talked about Jericho, but look at a guy like Randy Savage...

The Macho Man in his prime was BRILLIANT in the ring (the dude had a captivating edge-of-your-seat match with the ULTIMATE WARRIOR, for Christ's sake), and on the charismatic side of things he had a persona that was so larger-than-life that he was actually comparable to Hulk Freakin' Hogan in popularity at one point. Shit, HBK and Mach are in the same ballpark in the ring when they were both at their best, but Savage absolutely CRUSHES Michaels as a persona. If you combine Macho Man's character with his in-ring ability, it's surprising why more people don't make the argument for him being the best performer. Why is this? Why is it that someone who was such a great worker and was so beloved by millions of people isn't spoken of in the same light as Shawn Michaels when discussing who is the all-time greatest?

The answer is "because WWE says so." They dictate the way a lot of people feel about past legends and who the best is. Not saying you specifically since you're probably a diehard Shawn Michaels fan, but in general. How many times have you heard WWE ring home the point that HBK is the best performer EVAR and that Ric Flair is the biggest legend or whatever else? Now how many times have you heard them give Savage the same props? It's because Shawn Michaels was one of their current stars up until WrestleMania 26, whereas WWE likes to pretend that Macho Man more or less didn't ever exist. Urban legend says it's because he fucked a 15 year old Stephanie McMahon, but who knows? The point is... if the way WWE presented stuff was different, then the general outlook by the fans would be a little different too. What was the biggest and most popular wrestling stable of all-time that drew the most money in the allotted time of their existence? The nWo. But nowadays, does the casual fan give a flying fuck about the nWo? Probably not. They know about DX's legacy, though.

So my point is that I really don't care who "most people" think is the best performer. Most of it is manipulated anyway.

Good debate though.

I do have to admit that Jericho has better mic. skills than solo HBK. But when it comes to DX HBK(the old DX) then HBK is right up there or better than Jericho. What DX was saying back in the day was SO bad that they were censored many times and had to give an apology on TV, witch they turned around and made it funny.

And that brings me to the whole heel thing. HBK created so much controversy throughout the mid-late 90's with DX. It got so bad. I remember the amount of parents that were outraged with DX back in the day, becuase they were anti-establishment. Just like the nWo, and Austin were. The same can't be said for Jericho. I never saw him create as much chaos as HBK did on the mic when he was in DX. Or overall just the amount of outrageous things they were doing.

And I really don't buy that whole "its manipulated" thing when it comes to why people think HBK is the best. I have seen many of the Savages matches from back in the day, and yes it was exciting. But its not as exciting as something like HBK did with the Undertaker at wrestlemaina 25. I mean my god, you could cut the tension with a knife when that match was happening. It was an emotional roller-coaster. And HBk's great battle against team bishoff at the 2003 Survivor Series, I have never seen Jericho pull such a miraculous fight. Forget the whole "showstopping" thing for a second. The amount of courage and strength HBK showed during the last parts of that match was incredible. Thats another thing HBk has over Jericho, is that this man has a tremendous amount of ambition and courage. He goes against all odds, no matter how big or small. HBK has never backed down from a fight. I do recall many times Jericho has chickened out of things. But HBK as always there to fight no matter how injured he may have been.

But going back to the whole "manipulated" thing. I think its BS. I take Jim Ross for example, he has seen them all. All the greats. And I hold his opinion really high when it comes to wrestling becuase he knows what hes talking about. And I remember him saying on many occasions that out of all the performers he has ever seen, HBK and Rick flair are the top two ever. And I strongly agree with this opinion. I have a hard time believing the WWE forces people like Jim Ross and others to claim HBK and Flair are the best and disregard others becuase they are constantly releasing DVD's and books on past wrestlers and their great matched.
 
My all time favorite wrestler, is a man that stayed loyal to his company. When the WWE (then WWF) tried hard to sign him away from WCW, he stayed true to his company...and his principles.

I'm talking about The Icon.....STING!

 
lol i haven't watched wrestling in a good decade. I used to love WWF and i watched it religiously.
 
Back
Top