MJ himself was bullied by his collaborators,
I believe its reported that the day of the announcement conference, Michael was drunk and refused to come out of the bathroom so some high up AEG executive showed up and slapped him.What does this refer to? - Who bullied him, I think I've missed something.
That's how he explained it later, but it seemed much less friendly in his original e-mails - he said he screamed at him so hard that the walls were shaking and that he slapped him. He also said he threw him into a cold shower. Who knows whether that was just him exaggerating to his buddies to make himself seem like a tough guy or whether it really happened - but it does show (as did a lot of the e-mail traffic between the AEG execs) that they had no respect for MJ at all.I believe MJ was drunk, struggling with low confidence before the press conference believing no one would show up. Randy Phillips said he waited for him to sober up and slapped him on the rear as football players do as motivation.
i looooooove hearing that!
fans painted such a grim picture of how mj was at that time all from hearsay.
how could he look so there mentally and sharp on the last day of rehearsal when they said he didnt sleep properly by that point for weeks..always thought that was odd,he should have been hallucinating and out of it completely
I agree the emails were not flattering to AEG.That's how he explained it later, but it seemed much less friendly in his original e-mails - he said he screamed at him so hard that the walls were shaking and that he slapped him. He also said he threw him into a cold shower. Who knows whether that was just him exaggerating to his buddies to make himself seem like a tough guy or whether it really happened - but it does show (as did a lot of the e-mail traffic between the AEG execs) that they had no respect for MJ at all.
As for MJ being drunk, Paul Gongaware testified that MJ did not appear drunk but seemed to struggle to get up and going. Perhaps it was the pressure/anxiety. In any case, whatever the reason was, MJ did really appear 'off' during that press conference. So many of us at the time instantly noticed that.
I would not call it hearsay. Firstly, many of the fans who followed MJ during that period rang the alarm before his death. They even tried to get in touch with Karen Faye and wrote MJ a letter on the 24th expressing their worries. Secondly, we have seen lots of e-mails between the key people involved which reflect that he really was not doing well. Think of Ortega's worried e-mail just a week before MJ died - they were worried all the concerts would have to be cancelled. As others have said, the reason he looked pretty good during the rehearsal on the 23rd (and to a lesser degree on the 24th) is because he was on stimulants. It was deemed miraculous by those involved in the production, because he really had not appeared well at all just a few days before that.
Two things can be true at once. I'm sure there is plenty of unused footage available on which MJ looked good, especially the earlier it was in the rehearsal process. Murray's lawyers did review the available raw footage and said there was nothing they could use to make MJ look particularly bad. At the same time, you cannot ignore the overwhelming evidence that MJ was really deteriorating, at least from late May onwards. You have to remember that MJ was such a natural - even when not doing well he could do routines and make it look pretty good. That does not mean he was doing well.
That's how he explained it later, but it seemed much less friendly in his original e-mails - he said he screamed at him so hard that the walls were shaking and that he slapped him. He also said he threw him into a cold shower. Who knows whether that was just him exaggerating to his buddies to make himself seem like a tough guy or whether it really happened - but it does show (as did a lot of the e-mail traffic between the AEG execs) that they had no respect for MJ at all.
As for MJ being drunk, Paul Gongaware testified that MJ did not appear drunk but seemed to struggle to get up and going. Perhaps it was the pressure/anxiety. In any case, whatever the reason was, MJ did really appear 'off' during that press conference. So many of us at the time instantly noticed that.
I would not call it hearsay. Firstly, many of the fans who followed MJ during that period rang the alarm before his death. They even tried to get in touch with Karen Faye and wrote MJ a letter on the 24th expressing their worries. Secondly, we have seen lots of e-mails between the key people involved which reflect that he really was not doing well. Think of Ortega's worried e-mail just a week before MJ died - they were worried all the concerts would have to be cancelled. As others have said, the reason he looked pretty good during the rehearsal on the 23rd (and to a lesser degree on the 24th) is because he was on stimulants. It was deemed miraculous by those involved in the production, because he really had not appeared well at all just a few days before that.
Two things can be true at once. I'm sure there is plenty of unused footage available on which MJ looked good, especially the earlier it was in the rehearsal process. Murray's lawyers did review the available raw footage and said there was nothing they could use to make MJ look particularly bad. At the same time, you cannot ignore the overwhelming evidence that MJ was really deteriorating, at least from late May onwards. You have to remember that MJ was such a natural - even when not doing well he could do routines and make it look pretty good. That does not mean he was doing well.
i think it wouldn't matter what he was on if he wasn't getting sleep for weeks at that point it would have shown on that day or the week leading up to his death,i dont think any doctor would disagree with that,something about that isn't adding up.That's how he explained it later, but it seemed much less friendly in his original e-mails - he said he screamed at him so hard that the walls were shaking and that he slapped him. He also said he threw him into a cold shower. Who knows whether that was just him exaggerating to his buddies to make himself seem like a tough guy or whether it really happened - but it does show (as did a lot of the e-mail traffic between the AEG execs) that they had no respect for MJ at all.
As for MJ being drunk, Paul Gongaware testified that MJ did not appear drunk but seemed to struggle to get up and going. Perhaps it was the pressure/anxiety. In any case, whatever the reason was, MJ did really appear 'off' during that press conference. So many of us at the time instantly noticed that.
I would not call it hearsay. Firstly, many of the fans who followed MJ during that period rang the alarm before his death. They even tried to get in touch with Karen Faye and wrote MJ a letter on the 24th expressing their worries. Secondly, we have seen lots of e-mails between the key people involved which reflect that he really was not doing well. Think of Ortega's worried e-mail just a week before MJ died - they were worried all the concerts would have to be cancelled. As others have said, the reason he looked pretty good during the rehearsal on the 23rd (and to a lesser degree on the 24th) is because he was on stimulants. It was deemed miraculous by those involved in the production, because he really had not appeared well at all just a few days before that.
Two things can be true at once. I'm sure there is plenty of unused footage available on which MJ looked good, especially the earlier it was in the rehearsal process. Murray's lawyers did review the available raw footage and said there was nothing they could use to make MJ look particularly bad. At the same time, you cannot ignore the overwhelming evidence that MJ was really deteriorating, at least from late May onwards. You have to remember that MJ was such a natural - even when not doing well he could do routines and make it look pretty good. That does not mean he was doing well.
It was about what the pressure - which he told some of them about - was doing to him, for instance about how much weight he was losing and how ill he started to look.also heard about the fans and the letters that situation was more about the pressure he was facing rather than his mental state being disconnected from reality but i might be wrong on that.
But that's the thing - it DID show. Sleep experts testified at the trial that the behavior MJ was exhibiting matched that of someone suffering from severe REM-sleep deprivation - signs of paranoia, confusion, talking to himself, repeating himself, etc. I agree that it was remarkable that he was able to get things together - probably due to both his natural talent and the use of stimulants - for that rehearsal on the 23rd, but that is one moment in a month that had people increasingly worried.i think it wouldn't matter what he was on if he wasn't getting sleep for weeks at that point it would have shown on that day or the week leading up to his death,i dont think any doctor would disagree with that,something about that isn't adding up.
So you are more inclined to rely on a movie that is obviously heavily edited (many different takes spliced together, use of pre-recorded vocals and autotune) for commercial use over the actual e-mail evidence and court testimony from all the major players involved in this project?it still doesn't reflect what is shown in the movie and i get that you're going to go for "the movie is highly edited" as if they cgi Michael on stage and interacting with the musicians but hearing that other people saw the 100 hours footage and saw what i saw in the movie is great for me to hear,he was 50 he wasn't in shape and he was battling addiction so yeah he would be off to fans who see him for 20 minutes going in and out of his car but people painted a whole other picture.
But do you realize what you are implying here? You are suggesting that all these people, from top level executives to choreographers, producers and hair stylists that MJ worked with for years, faked or massively exaggerated concern about his condition before he died? Why would they all do that? Why would Conrad Murray order massive amounts of propofol and incriminate himself by saying he used it for MJ? Think about it, it makes no sense.hearing someone saw the tapes and saw he was fine just makes me question the emails as a whole,which is pretty hard to believe in the first place with the slap and kenny and all the other outrageous things on there.
I don't deny that MJ had good business instincts in some ways, but how can you find it hard to believe that he would get taken advantage of when that was - sadly - basically the story of the second half of his life? He was naive and believed in the good in people, resulting in a tendency to tragically trust the wrong people as well.this whole aeg thing also seems off,no one got jail time there was no follow up just lots of claims and emails,i dont get that and i find it so hard to believe mj would get taken advantage of that way,this is a skilled business man who knows his options very well and had lots of rich friends who helped him at that time,the only way he could get taken advantage of this hard is if he was actually that disconnected from reality as they claimed but it dosent reflect in the movie and i guess it dosent reflect in those 100 hours that this guys watched
Im not saying he was doing well im saying it wasnt as bad as people tried to make it look and maybe it is wishful thinking,was he exhibiting this behavior on any of the footage captured thats my question ,to ask what people around mj had to gain from lying is to open a pandora box i honestly don't trust anyone close to him everyone had motives to say anything and i wouldn't be surprised by anything so i really only can relay on people who are neutral like this person watching the footage whos an outsider or yeah...my own eyes watching that movie^I have to say that I honestly think this is largely wishful thinking.
It was about what the pressure - which he told some of them about - was doing to him, for instance about how much weight he was losing and how ill he started to look.
But that's the thing - it DID show. Sleep experts testified at the trial that the behavior MJ was exhibiting matched that of someone suffering from severe REM-sleep deprivation - signs of paranoia, confusion, talking to himself, repeating himself, etc. I agree that it was remarkable that he was able to get things together - probably due to both his natural talent and the use of stimulants - for that rehearsal on the 23rd, but that is one moment in a month that had people increasingly worried.
So you are more inclined to rely on a movie that is obviously heavily edited (many different takes spliced together, use of pre-recorded vocals and autotune) for commercial use over the actual e-mail evidence and court testimony from all the major players involved in this project?
You also have to remember that the 100 hours of footage might give the false impression that the camera was running non-stop. They clarified in court that this was often footage of the same moments from different cameras, so in reality they may have only captured 15 hours or so of unique footage. That's not a lot when you know how long these rehearsals would go on for daily. Moreover, you have to wonder whether they would have the cameras running while MJ was obviously not doing well.
But do you realize what you are implying here? You are suggesting that all these people, from top level executives to choreographers, producers and hair stylists that MJ worked with for years, faked or massively exaggerated concern about his condition before he died? Why would they all do that? Why would Conrad Murray order massive amounts of propofol and incriminate himself by saying he used it for MJ? Think about it, it makes no sense.
I don't deny that MJ had good business instincts in some ways, but how can you find it hard to believe that he would get taken advantage of when that was - sadly - basically the story of the second half of his life? He was naive and believed in the good in people, resulting in a tendency to tragically trust the wrong people as well.
Look, no one is saying that MJ did not have good moments during those rehearsals. He was pretty fit during the early rehearsal process and started deteriorating gradually. And this is a man who lived and breathed music - even at his lowest point the music could lift him and make him dance in a way that most could not do on their best day. But I really do not think that, with everything we know, you can make a case that he was doing well during his last few weeks. I wish it were different, but it's not.