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The Cascio Tracks Have Been REMOVED!!!

Kinda sucks from a censorship standpoint, but then again... they weren't Michael lol. Time for a re-release with new, authentic songs?
 
I really cannot tell you how much I hate the tone of every estate statement. It's like they are seething with contempt for their own customers.

So they're saying they removed them because they are distracting fans from discussing MJ the musical and how many copies thriller has sold. I see.
 
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I find the “it was distracting” argument utterly hilarious. Almost nobody outside the fan community know those songs exist, much less feel any sort of contempt for them; it’s just Damien Shields and his army of keyboard warriors lmfao.

I mean, I didn’t expect an apology or an admission, especially since they’re still fighting a lawsuit. I also agree that fans should be lifting up things that enhance MJ’s legacy, whether or not they like it. I just hope this ends and we can move on.
 
you know what? im happy with this!
first of all i don't think they can admit to them being fake cause of the legal stand they already chose on the matter so taking them down with the excuse that they distract from mj's legacy is fine by me, at least its not with the excuse that its rights issues or something completely unrelated, at least there's some acknowledgment to the issue.

BUT

they did say something interesting in that statement, they said the word "campaign" which means this new release of thriller 40 is going to have a lot of money being spent on it and a roll out plan in place so im honestly really interested to see how its going to play out, the way they rolled out "xscape" was REALLY good IMO especially for a bunch of "suites" people who aren't musicians or artists and i wonder if they learned their lessons from what worked and what didn't and are going to do much better this time around.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I also agree that fans should be lifting up things that enhance MJ’s legacy, whether or not they like it.
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Fans already do this. Hardcore fans are (let's face it) a small percentage of the people who consume MJ's music nowadays. So the estate acting like we're not doing enough or "should be concerned with other things" is just not it. The only reason the estate mentioned it was to be condescending and to try and reverse the conversation onto what fans are doing, rather than what they are. There was legitimately no reason to even bring it up in their response other than that.
 
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AlwaysThere said:
I find the “it was distracting” argument utterly hilarious. Almost nobody outside the fan community know those songs exist, much less feel any sort of contempt for them; it’s just Damien Shields and his army of keyboard warriors lmfao.
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Not sure what your issue with Damien is, but why do you keep bringing up his name? Of all things, your first reaction to this news was that Damien should have done more to combat Leaving Neverland (what?), yet you say his priorities are off?

Good that the tracks are finally gone, after all these years. Leave it to the Estate to turn a positive move into total condescendion towards their customers.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I find the “it was distracting” argument utterly hilarious. Almost nobody outside the fan community know those songs exist, much less feel any sort of contempt for them; it’s just Damien Shields and his army of keyboard warriors lmfao.

I mean, I didn’t expect an apology or an admission, especially since they’re still fighting a lawsuit. I also agree that fans should be lifting up things that enhance MJ’s legacy, whether or not they like it. I just hope this ends and we can move on.
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You realize that both him and his "army of keyboard warriors" (totally lame and immature calling us that. It's 2022 and most people use keyboards to communicate. Find another lingo) are mainly responsible for the removal of the songs, right? In said "army" you can also find Vera. Even the MJ Online Team admits that in their respond to the situation; because the fans kept talking about the songs (even though I think it's a result of both this and the ongoing case).

I can give you credit for posting about unreleased songs in the MJ community which is nice, but I'll never give you any credit for standing up against the Cascio songs like us keyboard warriors throughout the years.

Also, the low key beef and calling Damien out repeatedly over the recent periods is cringe worthy, man. Yes, you can post your opinions about it, but it just looks so much like a situation where you have asked him for stuff, and he stopped replying. Now you are sour about it, lol.

MJs streaming discography is finally cleansed and it's all thanks to Vera as well as us dedicated keyboard warriors. I literally could not believe it yesterday. Today even my Spotify lacks the fake songs.

Mama say mama got you in a zig zag!
 
AChanceToDance said:
They still won't admit they're fake lmao.
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I expect that if they would write "what here everyone expects" like "it was not Michael singing", that could have bad legal (and marketing) consequences for them... so maybe they're stuck writing weird stuff. But, who knows...
 
AlwaysThere said:
I find the “it was distracting” argument utterly hilarious. Almost nobody outside the fan community know those songs exist, much less feel any sort of contempt for them; it’s just Damien Shields and his army of keyboard warriors lmfao.

I mean, I didn’t expect an apology or an admission, especially since they’re still fighting a lawsuit. I also agree that fans should be lifting up things that enhance MJ’s legacy, whether or not they like it. I just hope this ends and we can move on.
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God forbid should someone fight for Michael’s artisitic legacy.
 
SoCav said:
So that means those 3 tracks amassed around 22 million spins?

That would certainly fly in the face of the argument that no one outside the hardcore fanbase even knows about their existence. (Not that it matters, even if that had been the case, it's equally important that these songs are removed from his discography).
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About 12 million were for monster, i think this got some extra attention because of 50cent. The other two tracks had about 4 million streams each which is about the basic number for non MJ singles. So my best guess is that he has a hardcore fanbase of around 4 to 5 million people.
 
filmandmusic said:
About 12 million were for monster, i think this got some extra attention because of 50cent. The other two tracks had about 4 million streams each which is about the basic number for non MJ singles. So my best guess is that he has a hardcore fanbase of around 4 to 5 million people.
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Thanks, makes sense that Monster would garner more spins.

I'm not so sure about the fanbase argument. Streaming wasn't nearly as big when the album was released so it's not like a big chunk of those numbers is based on the first time the fans listened to those songs. After that, many hardcore fans purposely never (or rarely) re-listened to those tracks of course. So I don't think those numbers are down to just hardcore fans.
 
Not gonna lie, I actually like Keep Your Head Up. The other two songs, I couldn’t care less about.
 
filmandmusic said:
So my best guess is that he has a hardcore fanbase of around 4 to 5 million people.
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Idk I think that is major low balling! People can be hardcore fans without listening to that album at all, especially if all they associate with it is fake tracks. Like I'm a new hardcore fan and I have literally never streamed that album because I've exclusively heard terrible things about it. I'm sure a lot of people who became fans since the album's release havent felt terribly inclined to listen to it. You know?

Right now, MJ has 30 million monthly listeners, which certainly includes a lot of casual fans, but I would doubt they make up the VAST majority. On YouTube he has 25.5 million subscribers. Now YT subscribers don't necessarily mean a lot either, except that it does indicate anyone subscribed wants to be notified of releases as they happen, and given that he is gone we all know those releases won't happen often. So my point is that a strong chunk of those people don't want to passively find out about new Michael material. May not make then hardcore fans, but certainly more than casual fans!

None of this matters, of course, but I just can't accept his hardcore fan base is so small 😊
 
SoCav said:
Not sure what your issue with Damien is, but why do you keep bringing up his name? Of all things, your first reaction to this news was that Damien should have done more to combat Leaving Neverland (what?), yet you say his priorities are off?
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Absolutely. And the irony of the keyboard warrior remark. The only person I've seen posting petty remarks and making digs at other fans is you, AlwaysThere.
 
Many of those listens are from people who did comparisons back in the day and tried to spread the word that they are fake.

Not trying to minimise the impact, but the casual listener knows almost nothing about these songs. The main reaction is “oh weird song”. Many casual listeners also think Hollywood Tonight is fake, so there’s that.

All in all, the things should be considered a small victory for the people that care a lot about these songs. The estate won’t make a statement and say “they are fake, blabla”, because there needs to be some kind of damage control and they don’t want to risk more money after they already spent 12m on the 12 tracks back in the day and the album was a flop.

My personal opinion is that I don’t care about these songs for a lot of time. I already forgot about their existence. 12 years later removing them doesn’t make much of a difference. But people who fought for them kind of see eye to eye with the estate now in a way.

I enjoyed the Michael 2010 release apart from the controversy. I own the physical disc. I am happy with all the other releases, Bad25, Xscape (which I own in many formats) and I think they did a great job with the Broadway Show and One. Eager to see what they are planning for T40, as odd as the number for an anniversary is.

Some of the hate for the Estate is justified, but some just can’t get over the Cascio controversy and hate on everything. Branca said no more Cascio tracks and it happened. We got the Wembley show (let’s not act like Michael wasn’t an airhead when it came to storing tapes), we got a new album along with original demos and cool promo. I think they learned their lessons (much too late) and we should cut them some slack.
 
A normal estate would have just responded with "the tracks are being removed but it is not due to any disputes with the vocals". Instead we get an additional two paragraph condescending rant about how we should all be spending our time promoting MJ The Musical and talking about a movie we know virtually nothing about. 😀
 
The tone of the Estate makes my skin crawl and blood boil.

They seem to forget it was THE FANS that destroyed Leaving Neverland with their own documentaries and efforts.

THE FANS organise streaming parties and make Michael trend on Twitter.

THE FANS organised the XSCAPE release parties in London, HMV

The Estate? Here's some overpriced crap merch and fake songs. Effectively radio silent since what, 2014?

Yeah, it's us not pulling our weight here. Absolutely, downright disgusting. F the lot of them!!!!!
 
staywild23 said:
Idk I think that is major low balling! People can be hardcore fans without listening to that album at all, especially if all they associate with it is fake tracks. Like I'm a new hardcore fan and I have literally never streamed that album because I've exclusively heard terrible things about it. I'm sure a lot of people who became fans since the album's release havent felt terribly inclined to listen to it. You know?

Right now, MJ has 30 million monthly listeners, which certainly includes a lot of casual fans, but I would doubt they make up the VAST majority. On YouTube he has 25.5 million subscribers. Now YT subscribers don't necessarily mean a lot either, except that it does indicate anyone subscribed wants to be notified of releases as they happen, and given that he is gone we all know those releases won't happen often. So my point is that a strong chunk of those people don't want to passively find out about new Michael material. May not make then hardcore fans, but certainly more than casual fans!

None of this matters, of course, but I just can't accept his hardcore fan base is so small 😊
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I understand the points you are making.
But from a s. c. hardcore fan I‘d personally would expect at least one thing:

• buying & supporting the latest project/album release

And dare I say it, EVEN if it is not to the exact standard of each individual fan out there.
I fully understand the uproar & boycott of an album with fake songs on it.
But let’s all take a look at the numbers of the noteworthy projects that followed:
Bad25 & Xscape
Bad25 did so small numbers, that they didn’t bother to even release something for Dangerous25 & History25.
And I’m 100% sure, that if Bad25 was successful, they’d had at least SOMETHING for the other 2 albums.
Then Xscape album: It sold about 2 million world wide.
Which was a good success, but could have been wayyy better. And not to forget: The MICHAEL album did around the same numbers.

Where are the 4 or 5 million s. c. hardcore fans?
And don’t tell me that many are to poor to go out and buy a cd or album.
You can see it within MJJC itself. Everyone is loud & proud in here, until it comes to the support that would matter & mean something for this very site. It seems if you can count the supporting fans on one hand.

I‘m more than eager to see the numbers THRILLER40 will do. Fans clamoring for unreleased songs/demos for 8 long years.
Let’s see them react IF we‘ll finally get something in November.
I don’t expect high sales numbers.
Many fans just running their mouth, but are not supporting, even when there is every reason to support.
I also get that the artwork/font is again reason to criticize, but it’s not called for to protest & create shit storms.
If we get a good amount of unreleased/ unheard songs/demos & this won’t be supported, don’t be surprised if they won‘t bother releasing new music again in the future!
 
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