Asking ourselves tough questions.

jamba

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VG is the rat behind this, along with real child molesters, a corrupt media, and money-grabbers.

Jermaine's book talks about how VG ran into Wade and his mother on the beach in LA and implied to the mum that MJ was a molester--she was outraged and reported it back to others around MJ. So how can she ever say she was unaware etc. VG actually approached her and dropped that bombshell innuendo.

VG is all over the place--he was Diane Dimond's 'best and most reliable source'; he knew Ray Chandler, Evan, he knew the Chandler's maid, he knew Bianca Francia, Adrian McManus, the NL 5 etc. He is everywhere on this. He was the first person the police interviewed over a 2 day period once they opened their investigation. He is just omnipresent sowing his darkness. What a rat.
 

SoCav

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Its in his civil lawsuit. Safechuck made his mother not tell Michael that he had told her about the abuse. So according to Safechuck MJ phoned the mother and she did not say that she had been made aware Michael had molested her son!

Here is it is:


Thank you, I had completely forgotten about that. That certainly is strange.

What jumped out at me here again is the notion that MJ would have threatened to get him for perjury in 1993. This just does not make any sense. The only way in which his testimony in 1993 could be seen as perjury, is of course if MJ was guilty. But then, what kind of a threat is that? "My lawyers will get you for falsely claiming I did not abuse you. I'll publically admit in a court of law that I abused you, just so you can be send to jail for perjuring yourself."
 

WildStyle

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What do you mean the corroboration of Wade and James's behaviour? As children or now? Did they change and have behaviour that abuse victims have as children? It doesn't seem they thought that from what I've seen. I haven't watched it all. As far as I know no family member is claiming to know or suspect anything until Wade or james spoke out recently. Except for James's mum, as James apparently called Michael a bad man in 2005. Even though someone posted here that James said on t.v. he didn't realise it was abuse until Wade went public. And James's mum acts very strangely in this documentary from what I've seen, smiling, laughing, telling her 'funny stories' of sneaking to listen at their door. Weird for someone who thinks/knows her son was abused by this person. In those rooms.

The stories and reactions to them "coming out" would be the same regardless of wade or James was truthful wouldn't it, because the families are simply believing their son/brother/husband and reacting to that?

Not as children. Their behaviour in coming to terms and dealing with the effects of the alleged abuse in the lead up to them finally coming out with the allegations. This testimony is more effective in Safechuck's case than in Wade's. None of them apparently noticed any change in their behaviour as children.
 

etoile 37

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When people say that Wade and James are suing the MJ Estate, we tend to think of a legal entity and people seem to forget something important: when Wade and James ask for 1 billion dollars from the Estate, they are actually asking Michael's children to pay that money. The money that comes from the MJ Estate belongs to his children, his mother, and 20% to charity. That's the money Wade and James want. And all their family members are okay with that. None of them told Wade or James, "Wait Wade, when you're suing Michael Jackson's Estate, you're not suing Michael Jackson for money, you're suing his children. It's wrong that his children should pay for what he did to you."

And yet in the documentary, Wade acts like he was so concerned about Michael's children losing their daddy if he went to jail. Notice however that he didn't show any concern that Michael might abuse his own children if he didn't go to jail. And he's certainly not showing any concern for them now, when he's suing them for a billion dollars or so.

I find it suspicious how they could recount all the events for 4 hours without any tears, some of them with a smile on their face. And then suddenly they all start crying at the same time at the end, as if on cue, despite being in separate rooms. It's like it's part of a script, "Okay, here you will cry for the grand finale as you recall how Wade came out to the family." I think genuine tears would have come randomly at different times throughout the documentary, triggered by different things for different people. From what we've heard, they had been working on this documentary for 2 years. They can produce a 10-hour season of Game of Thrones in one year (with all the special effects, building of sets, tough complicated scenes...) So why did they work on this very simple documentary for two years? It's not like Dan Reed was going around the world researching and looking for more people to interview. He only interviewed the families, he could have done that in one week if he wanted genuine, spontaneous interviews. So what were they doing during those 2 years? I'd say they were adjusting the script, practicing their lines, re-filming scenes over and over again until they got the right kind of emotion they wanted.

Anybody can fake tears with some practice and multiple takes. Ever watched movies? Ever seen the crying children in Titanic? You would think they really were on a sinking boat, but they were not, they were just faking.

The Robsons and the Safechucks had two years and who knows how many takes to work on those fake tears. So don't be too impressed.
 

aqwsz

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I'm on the fence because both stories are perfectly understandable. One part in me says " but MJ had no childhood, he wanted to recreate that, he never did no harm" the other parts says " MJ really has the profile of a pedophile and the entire grooming and love story does work".
I mean if Culkin would soon join the party of Dan Reed (not saying he will) that really must seal it right? There is one truth out there and that is that one of the two sides is/are extremely bad man/men.
I'm being labeled a troll for this and I don't care, I should always reveal my thoughts on an MJ forum. This is very important, we can't just vilify the accusers. All the evidence we come up with is that really evidence? People have several reasons to act how they act and we just don't know what happened behind closed doors. Most of us here haven't know either party personal so we can not know for sure imo...
He could really have been very manipulative... He acted childish but at the same time he was also a smart opportunistic business man. He was shy but on stage he was a machoman. His art/music does have shades of arrogance. The HIStory album cover is just a big no. He says himself that he is like Jesus( he had a bigger purpose on earth) and during some songs he acted like Jesus too. He loved himself and he had no business buying all these things for unknown families, that is manipulative.

I never ever questioned but I do now and nobody can point the finger at me and say I shouldn't think for myself.
 

wednesday

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I'm on the fence because both stories are perfectly understandable. One part in me says " but MJ had no childhood, he wanted to recreate that, he never did no harm" the other parts says " MJ really has the profile of a pedophile and the entire grooming and love story does work".
I mean if Culkin would soon join the party of Dan Reed (not saying he will) that really must seal it right? There is one truth out there and that is that one of the two sides is/are extremely bad man/men.
I'm being labeled a troll for this and I don't care, I should always reveal my thoughts on an MJ forum. This is very important, we can't just vilify the accusers. All the evidence we come up with is that really evidence? People have several reasons to act how they act and we just don't know what happened behind closed doors. Most of us here haven't know either party personal so we can not know for sure imo...
He could really have been very manipulative... He acted childish but at the same time he was also a smart opportunistic business man. He was shy but on stage he was a machoman. His art/music does have shades of arrogance. The HIStory album cover is just a big no. He says himself that he is like Jesus( he had a bigger purpose on earth) and during some songs he acted like Jesus too. He loved himself and he had no business buying all these things for unknown families, that is manipulative.

I never ever questioned but I do now and nobody can point the finger at me and say I shouldn't think for myself.

From your comment, can I make the assumption that you yourself are a cardboard cutout kind of human being?
 

JCO8

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From your comment, can I make the assumption that you yourself are a cardboard cutout kind of human being?

From your comment, can I make the assumption that people who don't ask themselves tough questions have nothing to do on a thread called "Asking ourselves tough questions" ?
 

aqwsz

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From your comment, can I make the assumption that you yourself are a cardboard cutout kind of human being?

I'd answer that question if I knew what you meant by it. I probably shouldn't bother though as it is clearly malintent.
 

ChrisC

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This is very important, we can't just vilify the accusers.

We absolutely should if they're lying.

I couldn't take another accuser at this point. Lies or not I'm at saturation point - well and truly.
 

KOPV

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If they were not lying there would not be the inconsistancies.. All the changes since 2013.



you CAN'T claim to have 'no perspective' on something and truly believe nothing was wrong in this 'loving relationship' when you were THREATENED to go to jail, doing drills to get dressed and speak of living in fear..

FEAR is a result of perspective!


THESE are the things that we need to remind ourselves.. when even the judge has to say there is no tier of logic in his testimony! sending links from an anti MJ site to build a case regarding PERSONAL events?

Ok I'll stop..
 

aqwsz

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If they were not lying there would not be the inconsistancies.. All the changes since 2013.



you CAN'T claim to have 'no perspective' on something and truly believe nothing was wrong in this 'loving relationship' when you were THREATENED to go to jail, doing drills to get dressed and speak of living in fear..

FEAR is a result of perspective!


THESE are the things that we need to remind ourselves.. when even the judge has to say there is no tier of logic in his testimony! sending links from an anti MJ site to build a case regarding PERSONAL events?

Ok I'll stop..

True, good points
 
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From your comment, can I make the assumption that people who don't ask themselves tough questions have nothing to do on a thread called "Asking ourselves tough questions" ?
Why is this guy back here???
Have they hackt this forum yesterday???
 

aqwsz

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I switched to this thread again while watching the film because the second part of the film is devastating and very convincing. At one point Wade talks about imaging his son being molested by Michael and if he acted that part he would get an Oscar. I don't think he was acting.
I'm sorry to everybody that reads this but you really should have seen the film. Reading about it is one thing , watching it is another.
They gave an explanation and I'm sorry but it is hard not to believe what they say, this is mainly for the second part as the first is mainly about the sexual abuse itself and that is hard off course but you expect that because it's molestation, we all know what rape looks like so for me that didn't shock. I honestly think more will follow...
I can only plead to Culkin and other kids who knew Michael very very well to please tell us the truth. It's torture to watch this as a fan.

I don't want to believe it but I fear I'm like Wade, in denial.
 
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aqwsz

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I don't know who said there wasn't any sobbing in this but they were WRONG
 

Jo Mike

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Oh boy..

I'll say this: if this docu makes you somewhat believe them/question Michael's innocent (whichever phrase is applicable) then this was the confirmation bias you needed to truly say your real opinion on this matter, IMO. I had this discussion with my sister and she started out just like this saying, 'Oh, you just never know"... "some things can no longer be excused"... "where there's smoke..." and I just cut her off by telling her to just say that she believes he's guilty. After basically asking her to factually back up her 'somewhat not convinced of his innocent' argument (to which she failed, lol) for more than an hour, she finally caved in and confessed that she truly believes he's guilty. Sigh.

I'll admit, I was gutted because she doesn't give any reason that holds water. She barely knows the accusers' names, FFS! But she just says she loves the music but doesn't really love the man behind the songs anymore. At this point, it's either you believe them accusations or don't. Personally I believe the evidence exonerates Michael 100% but I guess for some it's still doesn't convince them enough. Sad, but not surprising, given how sometimes people can be..er... insular on certain issues.

Michael Jackson is no longer here to defend himself, but the facts will always back him up. Whether people like it or not.
 

Campari

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I'm on the fence because both stories are perfectly understandable. One part in me says " but MJ had no childhood, he wanted to recreate that, he never did no harm" the other parts says " MJ really has the profile of a pedophile and the entire grooming and love story does work".
I mean if Culkin would soon join the party of Dan Reed (not saying he will) that really must seal it right? There is one truth out there and that is that one of the two sides is/are extremely bad man/men.
I'm being labeled a troll for this and I don't care, I should always reveal my thoughts on an MJ forum. This is very important, we can't just vilify the accusers. All the evidence we come up with is that really evidence? People have several reasons to act how they act and we just don't know what happened behind closed doors. Most of us here haven't know either party personal so we can not know for sure imo...
He could really have been very manipulative... He acted childish but at the same time he was also a smart opportunistic business man. He was shy but on stage he was a machoman. His art/music does have shades of arrogance. The HIStory album cover is just a big no. He says himself that he is like Jesus( he had a bigger purpose on earth) and during some songs he acted like Jesus too. He loved himself and he had no business buying all these things for unknown families, that is manipulative.

I never ever questioned but I do now and nobody can point the finger at me and say I shouldn't think for myself.

I feel the same way. I wish I could know for sure what the truth is, because whenever I read stuff here I think yes that makes sense, they might be lying, but then watching the documentary, and thinking back on stuff that I felt was weird in the past, then I'm inclined to believe it is true.. I'm very sad over this, but I can't seem to convince myself that it's all lies.
 
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I hate it that people can upload Leaving Neverland all over Youtube.
A place for very young people and children.
Its now a free availible child porn propganda movie supporting peodo phantasies from loving relationships and enjoyable sex between adults and children!

I will mentioned it again why this film is so emotional and hard to watch.
I think also its much harder and emotiomal to watch for a MJFan compared to non Fans!

The most part of its shockvalue gets the film from its pioner character.
People hear someone for the very first time talking about sexual acts between men and children in grafic details and possible loving relationships.

This is a break of an taboo.
Like people start talking about gay acts in the eighties or you can see them the first time on the screen.

When you expirinced something the very first time it can be always very emotional!

Then when they telling you all this stories and describing you all this things they repeatetly say the name Michael and showing you pictures of him and videos (you mainly didn't see before).
Alone seeing the pictures, videofootage and hearing the name Michael whould make you feel something as a fan cause its someone you more or less love and is a stromg part of your life.
It triggers you absolutly.

That you hear things you never heared before by seeing michael often with the two man as boys on the screen (in maybe phtoshoped pictures) making you see pictutes in your mind which are very disturbing, painful and hard to endure content.
This hits absolutly strong!!!

But they are all manipulated fantasies not reality!
Its a brainwash which will go away!

For fans who can not resist to watch LN is maybe a gut idea., to make 2 runs.
First run were you only watch without any sound.
Second Run with only the sound on a dark screen.
I think it will have a better effect on you and will let you see less disturbing images in your mind!
It will leave you with less more doubts about a man you know and studied intensly for a very long time since you become a fan.

And I want say that the music and sounds in LN has a strong manipilated effect too!
 

Lightbringer

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So gang, Wade Robson wanted to get married at Neverland, when he was there testifying, while knowing Gavin Arvizo probably had been molested by Michael Jackson!

Did Michael Jackson threaten him to ask about if he could get married at Neverland too? :cool:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Why does Wade not mention that he sought to get married at Neverland during MJ’s trial in 2005? Did Michael force him to want that? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LeavingNeverLand?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LeavingNeverLand</a> <a href="https://t.co/sak5k3N690">pic.twitter.com/sak5k3N690</a></p>&mdash; caramella (@Caramelicedtea) <a href="https://twitter.com/Caramelicedtea/status/1103784403631833089?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 7, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

etoile 37

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I wish I could know for sure what the truth is, because whenever I read stuff here I think yes that makes sense, they might be lying, but then watching the documentary, and thinking back on stuff that I felt was weird in the past, then I'm inclined to believe it is true..

Even if one believes that Michael Jackson is a pedophile, there is no "might" or "perhaps" about whether they lied or not. It is a fact that they lied. The only thing that could be argued is whether they lied about everything or just about some things. But if it were true that they were abused, then why would they feel the need to make up stories? Why would they feel the need to insert lies in a real story?

The undeniable proof that Wade lied (besides the fact that he keeps changing his story...) is right there in the emails he had to hand over during his lawsuit against the Estate. In one email, Wade asks for his mother's thoughts on a story he read in a tabloid. His mother replies that none of it is true. And yet Wade still included it in his lawsuit. He deliberately included in his lawsuit a story that he knows is all made up. Let that sink in. Why would we use the word "might" have lied, when there is no "might" here. He lied. Period.

Here is Wade's email to his mother and his mother's reply at the bottom. His mother's reply is cut off because both Wade and his mother claimed a technical bug is preventing them from accessing the rest of the reply.

190309090118669413.jpg


The email was sent on February 15, 2016. Wade knew the story wasn't true, but as you can see, he still included it in the amended complaint he filed in September 2016:

wademotiontocompel2.jpg


Don't let them manipulate you using emotions and fake tears. The facts tell a different story, and the facts don't lie.
 

Popescu

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I am a former Michael fan, have been since childhood up until Wade’s allegations in 2012 (2013?). As a survivor, his story resonated with me from the get go, and that is because I have a similar one. I have no monetary interest, no other interest whatsoever, I am a person who loved Michael and cried when he died. He suffered more than we ever imagined, the beatings were the obvious ones, but there was more; and it is my opinion that he became an abuser himself.

To anyone who is on the fence and hasn’t watched the documentary, please do; I strongly believe that the other kids will also come out eventually. And to anyone concerned about his legacy, the legacy will probably survive - Michelangelo, Lewis Caroll come to mind; but this isn’t about his legacy, it’s personal and, for me, as a fan, it was a love story; and the sooner you discover the truth, the sooner you will start healing.
 
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Mikky Dee

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Why is this guy back here???
Have they hackt this forum yesterday???

The original infraction was overturned, as the owner believes in second chances. Let's just suspend judgement, please and see what happens, going forward. I would also advise members to use the ignore function if they feel the need to.
 

Mikky Dee

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Popescu;4248729 said:
I am a former Michael fan, have been since childhood up until Wade&#8217;s allegations in 2012 (2013?). As a survivor, his story resonated with me from the get go, and that is because I have a similar one. I have no monetary interest, no other interest whatsoever, I am a person who loved Michael and cried when he died. He suffered more than we ever imagined, the beatings were the obvious ones, but there was more; and it is my opinion that he became an abuser himself.

To anyone who is on the fence and hasn&#8217;t watched the documentary, please do; I strongly believe that the other kids will also come out eventually. And to anyone concerned about his legacy, the legacy will probably survive - Michelangelo, Lewis Caroll come to mind; but this isn&#8217;t about his legacy, it&#8217;s personal and, for me, as a fan, it was a love story; and the sooner you discover the truth, the sooner you will start healing.

Please do some reading about Wade Robson's lies and his inconsistent, messed up timeline.

As a survivor of abuse, you shouldn't feel obligated to believe every accusation other people make regarding abuse. You are not beholden to automatically believe them, or take their claims at face value. It's not a club that you're either in or out of. Every case should be examined on its own merits.

Yes, I am a survivor of sexual abuse as well and I do NOT believe Robson or Safechuck. Their stories are full of holes and their body language is all wrong - Michael Jackson does not fit the profile of a serial child molester in any way, shape, or form, IMO.

Something to read, about Robson/Safechuck's legal case:

http://dailymichael.com/
 

Erandi

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Popescu;4248729 said:
I am a former Michael fan, have been since childhood up until Wade&#8217;s allegations in 2012 (2013?). As a survivor, his story resonated with me from the get go, and that is because I have a similar one. I have no monetary interest, no other interest whatsoever, I am a person who loved Michael and cried when he died. He suffered more than we ever imagined, the beatings were the obvious ones, but there was more; and it is my opinion that he became an abuser himself.

To anyone who is on the fence and hasn&#8217;t watched the documentary, please do; I strongly believe that the other kids will also come out eventually. And to anyone concerned about his legacy, the legacy will probably survive - Michelangelo, Lewis Caroll come to mind; but this isn&#8217;t about his legacy, it&#8217;s personal and, for me, as a fan, it was a love story; and the sooner you discover the truth, the sooner you will start healing.

I am sorry to hear that you were a victim of abuse, but what you are stating contradicts itself, in that, if you are a victim of abuse, you become an abuser yourself. Are you also an abuser now?! Do you see where this logic goes?

Also...please, read all of the facts, court documents, everything that`s out there on this case (don`t tell me you already have, becuase I won`t believe that. it`s a lot to read, but, if you are willing to lose 4hr of your life with garbage like LN, you should be able to read these as well. no excuse!). You will see the lies, contradictions, inconsistencies. And it`s all for hundreds of millions of dollars, that`s the point!

Please, watch this video. You will see here the lenghts people go in order to frame Michael (a kid who had never met Michael, never went to Neverland, etc. could lie very convincingly, go into every sordid detail, describe MJ`s body, describe Neverland and ohter employees):

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZbjqOfA2ieU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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My summery to the credibilty of the story with the wedding ceremony and MJ and James did so much incredible sexual stuff togeter in Neverland:

How can it ever be beliveable that Michael and James did all this many sexual stuff together in Neverland over a long perid of time when they only show three pictures in the movie of Michael and James in Neverland (two pictures of Michael alone, one picture of James in a pool) and a Birthday Party at neverland where no Michael showed up?

James said in LN that MJ and he filed out a Document about their "marriage".
They didn't explain, what happened to this document.
Why could James not keep this damm document but the rings?
James semes not to have it and Michael Jackson seamed also not to have it cause the police turned his house upside down in 1993 and 2003 and found nothing!!!

The wedding cermomy should beliveable because they showed three cheep rings in the camera in Leaving Neverland?

When I would be so much in love with Michael and had a loveing relationship with the biggest superstar in the world, I whould make photos with the rings on my finger.
But there is not a single one in LN.

The whole story with the wedding ceremony and the sex adventures in Neberland is unbeliveabe!

I think they knew by making the film that the Neverland Part the weekest part of James story is, because of the incredible lack of evidence they could show about it (three photos, birthday party, the rings).
So they brought the most graphic crazy details into this to manipulate the emotions of the viewer so far as possible that he don't reconize when they only watch LN once (what the most people do) the lack of evidence they are showing.

Even the first version was not strong enough so Reed decided to bring the wedding ceremony in.
We know this was the last thing they filmed.
They made this also cause they know it whould trigger the media extreamly who always wanna sell the storys that MJ abused kids in the "kiddie-candy Land" Neverland and not somewere else!
 

MJInnocent

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Theres zero evidence of any wrong doing,if he was actually doing what the media wants you to believe then no doubt there would be a trail.

The only accusers have been so blatantly after money that their validity shouldn't even be questioned.
 

DDam

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Popescu;4248729 said:
I am a former Michael fan, have been since childhood up until Wade’s allegations in 2012 (2013?). As a survivor, his story resonated with me from the get go, and that is because I have a similar one. I have no monetary interest, no other interest whatsoever, I am a person who loved Michael and cried when he died. He suffered more than we ever imagined, the beatings were the obvious ones, but there was more; and it is my opinion that he became an abuser himself.

To anyone who is on the fence and hasn’t watched the documentary, please do; I strongly believe that the other kids will also come out eventually. And to anyone concerned about his legacy, the legacy will probably survive - Michelangelo, Lewis Caroll come to mind; but this isn’t about his legacy, it’s personal and, for me, as a fan, it was a love story; and the sooner you discover the truth, the sooner you will start healing.

I still haven't watched the full doc, think I seen most of it though, I've missed parts here and there, also the version I watched was cut in the first place. I seen some interviews, the Oprah one and others, and read some documents.

I am a Michael fan, I'm a victim of csa, I don't find wade credible, I don't understand how people find wade more credible than james. there's a lot of info and stuff that goes against Wade. If I had to believe either of them it'd be James, not because of the sexual things he says happened between he and mj, because no I can't believe that about mj, I can't wrap my head around it. But to me he is the more credible one for various reasons.

And now I just seen an old news report that shows mj apparently shopping for rings with a boy in Simi Valley where James was from.
Still not clear if this is james. Does James say where they went ring shopping?

https://mobile.twitter.com/hotstreek420/status/1105542672616513536

At one point James did have long hair. These pics I think from around same time as this video 1989

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HO3TUxKQTwA/UQW10RhQeII/AAAAAAAADAo/xx4b7_eQYxU/s1600/012ff790.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gqex0jRN66s/UQW2JizlHdI/AAAAAAAADEo/rpGlQ-PsbBU/s1600/safechuck7.jpg

Also just putting it out there, the photoshoot of mj and James, you know the one where mj is in dark blue kinda military style jacket, and James in red t shirt, makes me uncomfortable. Not saying anything, just being honest.

Edit: Saw this on twitter. James references this shopping trip in his civil complaint. States the same name and same place of the jewellery store and that mj was in disguise, all same as in the news report video. I'll have to look up the full thing to see if he actually claims they bought a ring there, for this mock 'wedding' lol. Doesn't seem so from this snippet https://mobile.twitter.com/morromocotudo/status/1105581677265502209
 
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I still haven't watched the full doc, think I seen most of it though, I've missed parts here and there, also the version I watched was cut in the first place. I seen some interviews, the Oprah one and others, and read some documents.

I am a Michael fan, I'm a victim of csa, I don't find wade credible, I don't understand how people find wade more credible than james. there's a lot of info and stuff that goes against Wade. If I had to believe either of them it'd be James, not because of the sexual things he says happened between he and mj, because no I can't believe that about mj, I can't wrap my head around it. But to me he is the more credible one for various reasons.

And now I just seen an old news report that shows mj apparently shopping for rings with a boy in Simi Valley where James was from.
Still not clear if this is james. Does James say where they went ring shopping?

https://mobile.twitter.com/hotstreek420/status/1105542672616513536

At one point James did have long hair. These pics I think from around same time as this video 1989

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HO3TUxKQTwA/UQW10RhQeII/AAAAAAAADAo/xx4b7_eQYxU/s1600/012ff790.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gqex0jRN66s/UQW2JizlHdI/AAAAAAAADEo/rpGlQ-PsbBU/s1600/safechuck7.jpg

Also just putting it out there, the photoshoot of mj and James, you know the one where mj is in dark blue kinda military style jacket, and James in red t shirt, makes me uncomfortable. Not saying anything, just being honest.

Edit: Saw this on twitter. James references this shopping trip in his civil complaint. States the same name and same place of the jewellery store and that mj was in disguise, all same as in the news report video. I'll have to look up the full thing to see if he actually claims they bought a ring there, for this mock 'wedding' lol. Doesn't seem so from this snippet https://mobile.twitter.com/morromocotudo/status/1105581677265502209

Some one said that after James knew from the existance of this video years ago he could have find the inspirstion to spin a whole story around this.

Please go trough the the thread "The-Leaving-Neverland-Lie-Collection-(No-comments)" in the News and Discussion part of this forum and tell me if you still find James story credible.
 
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Popescu

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Oh wow, I am extremely grateful to all of you who replied - emotions are so polarized that I expected some sort of public lynching, and that didn’t happen and thank you so much. I have given posting here a lot of thought, because this is Michael’s home and people here have supported him and loved him through it all.

Mikky Dee;4248771 said:
Please do some reading about Wade Robson's lies and his inconsistent, messed up timeline.

As a survivor of abuse, you shouldn't feel obligated to believe every accusation other people make regarding abuse. You are not beholden to automatically believe them, or take their claims at face value. It's not a club that you're either in or out of. Every case should be examined on its own merits.

I know that every case is different; it just so happened that I read about his story at a time when I realized the same thing about my own abuse.

Erandi;4248797 said:
I am sorry to hear that you were a victim of abuse, but what you are stating contradicts itself, in that, if you are a victim of abuse, you become an abuser yourself. Are you also an abuser now?! Do you see where this logic goes?

Also...please, read all of the facts, court documents, everything that`s out there on this case (don`t tell me you already have, becuase I won`t believe that. it`s a lot to read, but, if you are willing to lose 4hr of your life with garbage like LN, you should be able to read these as well. no excuse!). You will see the lies, contradictions, inconsistencies. And it`s all for hundreds of millions of dollars, that`s the point!

Please, watch this video. You will see here the lenghts people go in order to frame Michael (a kid who had never met Michael, never went to Neverland, etc. could lie very convincingly, go into every sordid detail, describe MJ`s body, describe Neverland and ohter employees):

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZbjqOfA2ieU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thank you for your kind words. After a lot of reading about the human psyche (I was trying to figure out what was wrong with me), I now know that the victim of childhood abuse goes on to become either an adult victim or an abuser, if that abuse is not healed, usually in therapy.

My opinion is that the inconsistencies can be explained by the fact that the victims were very young. I am an obsessive type of fan, I have read everything about everything concerning Michael, from his memoir to Shana’s book, anecdotes, the depositions in the cases, almost everything. I got to a point where I could tell if a certain story was fabricated or if it was the truth.

About the video, was not Diane Dimond demonized by fans? She was (is) the enemy; so the fact that she investigated this false claim, in my opinion, goes to show that she wrote everything in good faith. There’s no question that Michael was an easy target, because this type of abuse is very hard to prove; like harassment, it’s usually a case of “he said, she said”.


DDam;4249344 said:
I am a Michael fan, I'm a victim of csa, I don't find wade credible, I don't understand how people find wade more credible than james. there's a lot of info and stuff that goes against Wade. If I had to believe either of them it'd be James, not because of the sexual things he says happened between he and mj, because no I can't believe that about mj, I can't wrap my head around it. But to me he is the more credible one for various reasons.

I didn’t say that I find Wade more credible than James, I didn’t even know James’s story before the documentary, except one little tidbit I have read somewhere about someone being quoted saying that “he was not well in the head after Michael had dumped him”, something of that sort. My heart broke for him after seeing him in the documentary.

It seems to me that, even though the mo is the same, these are all different stories; James was emotionally abused more than the others; Wade has is a different type of personality, as did Jordie; Jordie stated at one point that he wasn’t starstruck, and the more time passed, the more Michael seemed like a real person to him. Wade was not pursued, his mom pursued Michael; and if one were to believe victor gutierrez book, she knew about the abuse, but she was arrogant enough to think that her son was somehow exempted.

About the lying: this isn’t a quick buck, as some fans put it. The shame that comes with admitting such an abuse is huge. I admit that money can and always will be a reason for false allegations of these sort; but to think that someone willingly would put their family though such pain and devastation, even for hundreds of millions of dollars, is unthinkable.

These are real people; with joys and sorrows, connected to their familes, just like you and me. I don’t think that there is even one person reading this who would cut all contact with their mother for ten years, if they didn’t consider they have been seriously wronged by her; even for 20m dollars, would you do that? June Chandler testified to that, in 2005. Are they all sociopaths, there were four sociopaths in Michael’s life, living in families of sociopaths, and they all set out to destroy him? This is not believable, in my opinion.

I am closer to Jimmy in my path to recovery; I think that true healing will come when I will be able to reconcile the image of Michael as we all knew him, the Michael who I loved - with the image that these two kids brought to life in this documentary.
 

AliCat

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Michael Jackson has sung in his songs that he is N O T a homosexual. If he is not a homosexual, then he cannot molest boys or young men.

Here's a tough question, wouldn't you stay angry for years if someone violated you? Wade Robson would have testified, if given the chance, to bury Michael Jackson in 2005. Look at all the men who were molested by priest's in the Catholic Church years ago and are still angry about it. There is no way these men would have defended the priest who took advantage of them, on account of their faith.

If it is true that Michael's lawyer had someone who said that Jordy confided in them that Michael did not molest him, then Evan did not hypnotize his son. Evan was angry at Michael for feeling excluded. Evan is noted for his bad temper. Evan gets physical in his anger. Evan abandoned his other children, so he could have access to his son's, Jordy's, money. Evan lied about wanting to produce movies or write screenplays. He only wanted the lifestyle that Michael Jackson enjoyed for free!
 

Soundmind

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I saw zero evidence of shame. They were smirking and very emotionless when they described the so called abuse. And they are not doing this for a buck of money. They filed this with the hope of getting hundreds of millions of dollars.
 
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