Best of Joy

mjfan_93

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I've read that they changed the structure of Michaels last version of 'Best Of Joy' for the release on 'Michael'. I think the chorus for exampel was changed ... Do we know how the orginal structure of that song was? And i think there was a third verse that they cut?!
 

Nite Line

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Yeah there was a third verse that was not included on the version released on the Michael album. I would love to hear the complete version of Best of Joy. It’s a gorgeous song.
 

AlwaysThere

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The original 2008 recording has a slightly different intro, a modified chorus structure, and a third verse.

I have absolutely no idea why such drastic alterations were made. There's a rumor floating around that the third verse was written by Rod Temperton and it was cut over a royalties dispute between him and Sony, but Michael Prince has stated that's incorrect.
 

SmoothGangsta

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The original 2008 recording has a slightly different intro, a modified chorus structure, and a third verse.

I have absolutely no idea why such drastic alterations were made. There's a rumor floating around that the third verse was written by Rod Temperton and it was cut over a royalties dispute between him and Sony, but Michael Prince has stated that's incorrect.

Wasn't there lyrics for a version which suggested the song was totally re ordered? In the Michael documentary or something? Maybe it was so unfinished they had to re order it for it to be cohesive? I find that unlikely for a song that was worked on for so long, though.
 
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Mikky Dee

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The original 2008 recording has a slightly different intro, a modified chorus structure, and a third verse.

I have absolutely no idea why such drastic alterations were made. There's a rumor floating around that the third verse was written by Rod Temperton and it was cut over a royalties dispute between him and Sony, but Michael Prince has stated that's incorrect.

There's no telling whether the alterations are "drastic", without hearing what the other version/s sound like. Perhaps the vocals in the other chorus and third verse are unclear....in the way that some of the lyrics in "Fall Again" are mumbled, for example. I usually trust that there are sound reasons for these kinds of decisions and changes, when they are made and I don't agonise over it, too much. One of the producers on the "Michael" album, Theron "Neff-U" Feemster, stated that the track was completely finished and that it was meant to be unveiled during TII. Perhaps Michael had an "album version" and a "concert version". A concert version might typically be longer and more embellished....especially if it was meant to be used as an interlude, of some kind.

It is definitely a beautiful and surprising song.....I remember just beaming (and crying) the first time I heard it and wondering what Michael was thinking and feeling when he first worked on it and recorded it.
 

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Wasn't there lyrics for a version which suggested the song was totally re ordered? In the Michael documentary or something? Maybe it was so unfinished they had to re order it for it to be cohesive? I find that unlikely for a song that was worked on for so long, though.

I don't remember that being said in the Michael documentary. I might have to go and watch it again, to find out.
 

SmoothGangsta

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I don't remember that being said in the Michael documentary. I might have to go and watch it again, to find out.

I didn't say it was said, there are lyrics shown that are in a different order than the released version I think. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, though, it's been a long time since I've looked any of this stuff up.
 
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SmoothGangsta

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Maybe this is what I was thinking of. Not sure if they're meant to be in the order they are written, though. The later part of the song is written first.

michael-s-hand-written-lyrics-for-BEST-OF-JOY-michael-jackson-30583890-252-320.jpg
 

SmoothGangsta

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There's no telling whether the alterations are "drastic", without hearing what the other version/s sound like. Perhaps the vocals in the other chorus and third verse are unclear....in the way that some of the lyrics in "Fall Again" are mumbled, for example. I usually trust that there are sound reasons for these kinds of decisions and changes, when they are made and I don't agonise over it, too much. One of the producers, Theron "Neff-U" Feemster, stated that the track was completely finished and that it was meant to be unveiled during TII....perhaps Michael had an "album version" and a "concert version". A concert version might typically be longer and more embellished....especially if it was meant to be used as an interlude, of some kind.

It is definitely a beautiful and surprising song.....I remember just beaming (and crying) the first time I heard it and wondering what Michael was thinking and feeling when he first worked on it and recorded it.

It is a very nice song, especially so being that it is the last full vocal he recorded. I never even thought about the possibility of it being a mumbled verse actually. Would be a shame if so.
 

AlwaysThere

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There's no telling whether the alterations are "drastic", without hearing what the other version/s sound like. Perhaps the vocals in the other chorus and third verse are unclear....in the way that some of the lyrics in "Fall Again" are mumbled, for example. I usually trust that there are sound reasons for these kinds of decisions and changes, when they are made and I don't agonise over it, too much. One of the producers on the "Michael" album, Theron "Neff-U" Feemster, stated that the track was completely finished and that it was meant to be unveiled during TII. Perhaps Michael had an "album version" and a "concert version". A concert version might typically be longer and more embellished....especially if it was meant to be used as an interlude, of some kind.

The third verse exists in a lyrically and vocally complete state: "Remember the time you said your life was through?/That's when I held and carried you/These arms that took hold of you..." No one can understand what the thought process behind cutting it was. The third verse was added later on during the song's lifespan, so some have assumed that the estate couldn't find the most recent version.

The "other chorus" is a minor embellishment: Michael sings "I am forever/We are forever" once in the original version, whereas in the 2010 mix it is repeated by the background vocals, becoming "I am forever (I am forever)/We are forever (We are forever)". It's inconsequential, but worth noting.

According to Michael Prince, there were no plans to debut new music on stage during the This Is It run; this would rely on Michael actually finishing the album which, given his work ethic, was anyone's guess. If the album was finished and released, that's a different story, but at the time of Michael's death there were no discussions of a live song debut. Neff-U likely meant to say that Michael was planning to release it as a single during the O2 residency.
 

SmoothGangsta

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The third verse exists in a lyrically and vocally complete state: "Remember the time you said your life was through?/That's when I held and carried you/These arms that took hold of you..." No one can understand what the thought process behind cutting it was. The third verse was added later on during the song's lifespan, so some have assumed that the estate couldn't find the most recent version.

The "other chorus" is a minor embellishment: Michael sings "I am forever/We are forever" once in the original version, whereas in the 2010 mix it is repeated by the background vocals, becoming "I am forever (I am forever)/We are forever (We are forever)". It's inconsequential, but worth noting.

According to Michael Prince, there were no plans to debut new music on stage during the This Is It run; this would rely on Michael actually finishing the album which, given his work ethic, was anyone's guess. If the album was finished and released, that's a different story, but at the time of Michael's death there were no discussions of a live song debut. Neff-U likely meant to say that Michael was planning to release it as a single during the O2 residency.

Surely if the vocals are from 2008 then the estate have the most recent version? Doesn't really make sense otherwise.
 

MJTruth

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Surely if the vocals are from 2008 then the estate have the most recent version? Doesn't really make sense otherwise.

Well they may have them now, but the question should be did they have them in 2009 / 2010? If they had them, did they know they had them? Did they realise which song they belonged to. I'm sure the archivist(s) hadn't finished going through all of the material the estate had at that point.

We don't know who was storing the vocals, in what format, nor where they were stored. It's a guessing game but MJ's recording appeared to be sporadic and disorganised, particularly in those final years. We know, for example, that with the Will.i.am track MJ kept the vocals and Will kept the music. It's perfectly possible that if the Best Of Joy vocals were recorded separately to the rest of the song they could be stored on a different hard drive in a different location. The MJ Estate may not have managed to piece them together in time for the album version released on the Michael album.
as I said, it's all guesswork, but I agree with Mikky Dee there would have been a sound reason behind them being missing. They couldn't find them, they weren't good enough quality, the 'sound' didn't match the other vocals they had, there was a rights/payment dispute of some kind, or many other reasons. One day we may hear those lyrics, or maybe not.
 

mjfan_93

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On that handwritten lyric sheet the Song starts with the (now) bridge 'you are the sun...'. Very interesting.
 

SmoothGangsta

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Well they may have them now, but the question should be did they have them in 2009 / 2010? If they had them, did they know they had them? Did they realise which song they belonged to. I'm sure the archivist(s) hadn't finished going through all of the material the estate had at that point.

We don't know who was storing the vocals, in what format, nor where they were stored. It's a guessing game but MJ's recording appeared to be sporadic and disorganised, particularly in those final years. We know, for example, that with the Will.i.am track MJ kept the vocals and Will kept the music. It's perfectly possible that if the Best Of Joy vocals were recorded separately to the rest of the song they could be stored on a different hard drive in a different location. The MJ Estate may not have managed to piece them together in time for the album version released on the Michael album.
as I said, it's all guesswork, but I agree with Mikky Dee there would have been a sound reason behind them being missing. They couldn't find them, they weren't good enough quality, the 'sound' didn't match the other vocals they had, there was a rights/payment dispute of some kind, or many other reasons. One day we may hear those lyrics, or maybe not.

I'm not denying that there was a legit reason for the vocals not being there, it would just be strange to me that the vocals that are on the album version are from 2008 (the last time he recorded a lead vocal) and that they didn't have the third verse, why would the third verse randomly be on a different hard drive or computer when the rest of those last vocals were together? Doesn't really make sense to me. He recorded it in a hotel room if I recall correctly, it's not as if there were years between recording sessions. It was all recorded in 2008. The earlier versions of the song have totally different lead vocals.
 

SmoothCriminal1995

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I really hope we get to hear the full song one day, as it was fully realised. I have faith that the third verse is complete and blends well sonically
 

morinen

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I really hope we get to hear the full song one day, as it was fully realised. I have faith that the third verse is complete and blends well sonically

It is and it does. In fact, it is gorgeous. If there was a legit reason for not including it, it was definitely not the sound or incompleteness of it.
 

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Do we know if the first Toy-version is vocally complete?
 

SmoothGangsta

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Do we know if the first Toy-version is vocally complete?

Someone has posted the lyrics for it on the Archives I think so that makes me want to say yes. Although it could be partly incomplete.
 

Hess

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Someone has posted the lyrics for it on the Archives I think so that makes me want to say yes. Although it could be partly incomplete.

Ahh, ok. Then it sounds like it could be complete. Hope we get to hear that version one day - like Starlight.

Do we know if there where other songs where the same melody was used but the lyrics was changed completely?

We have:

Best of Joy - don't know the other title - something with Toy - You are my Toy ??
Thriller - Starlight

More?
 

AlwaysThere

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The only difference between the 1982 version and the 2008 version is the opening lyric.

1982: "I am your toy, I am your boy/I am the moonlight, you are the spring..."
2008: "I am your joy, your best of joy/I am the moonlight, you are the spring..."

I believe the lyrics changed from "The Toy" to "Best of Joy" circa 1990, when MJ reworked it with Brad Buxer.
 

Hess

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The only difference between the 1982 version and the 2008 version is the opening lyric.

1982: "I am your toy, I am your boy/I am the moonlight, you are the spring..."
2008: "I am your joy, your best of joy/I am the moonlight, you are the spring..."

I believe the lyrics changed from "The Toy" to "Best of Joy" circa 1990, when MJ reworked it with Brad Buxer.

Ahh OK. I thought the lyrics was completely different. - Then it's not really that much of a difference... - Would be fun to hear the Toy anyway. :)
 
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