Brief live vocals on Jam on the Dangerous Tour

analogue

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Just before the dance break in the middle of the song, you can hear some live vocals for a split second. I always found it strange that for that split second live vocals are used. I wonder what the reason was
 

MoeJack

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Just before the dance break in the middle of the song, you can hear some live vocals for a split second. I always found it strange that for that split second live vocals are used. I wonder what the reason was

To "convince" the audience that it was live? Or atleast make them doubt themselves lol.
 

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Michael always tried covering up the fact he lipsynced.. That's why the more he did it the more he'd cover his mouth while singing. he was very consicous of the look of lipsync. By the time 30th Anniversary he spent half the time with his hands covering his mouth just because of the fact.
 

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Michael always tried covering up the fact he lipsynced.. That's why the more he did it the more he'd cover his mouth while singing. he was very consicous of the look of lipsync. By the time 30th Anniversary he spent half the time with his hands covering his mouth just because of the fact.

Wasn't the covering his mouth at the 30th anniversary down to some lip surgery he had? At least that's what I've read.
 

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^ that time period his face didn't move the same way, and he was self concious of his face for sure.. they even went as far as blurring his cheeks because Michael was self consious about his his cheeks sink in.. BUT, he's done that covering with the mic and hands years prior when not singing live. For 30th anniversary it may have been for both reasons - people saying it was because of his face did not come from Michaels mouth so I believe it was just an assumption. he did it through the History tour too.
 

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What's weird during the History tour was that some shows he didn't cover his mouth at all and showed that he was quite skilled at looking convincing when lip syncing, which I can at least appreciate if he felt the need to do it so much even though the use of the straight studio tracks with his own backing vocals did him no favors in hiding the fact. The second show in Auckland, New Zealand was his best effort I've seen as far as his lip syncing performances from that tour.

But then other History shows he would cover it all the time, even when he was actually singing live. So it made me wonder if that's the actual reason. Why would he need to cover his mouth if his lip movements were so convincing anyway and he didn't do it on other shows. I could understand if he forgot lyrics every now and then and had to mask it but with doing it on a consistent basis, that doesn't really make sense.
 

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What's weird during the History tour was that some shows he didn't cover his mouth at all and showed that he was quite skilled at looking convincing when lip syncing, which I can at least appreciate if he felt the need to do it so much even though the use of the straight studio tracks with his own backing vocals did him no favors in hiding the fact. The second show in Auckland, New Zealand was his best effort I've seen as far as his lip syncing performances from that tour.

But then other History shows he would cover it all the time, even when he was actually singing live. So it made me wonder if that's the actual reason. Why would he need to cover his mouth if his lip movements were so convincing anyway and he didn't do it on other shows. I could understand if he forgot lyrics every now and then and had to mask it but with doing it on a consistent basis, that doesn't really make sense.

I noticed that too. He would cover his mouth lip syncing or not and it's not really consistent. My early guess before was readjusting the mic or hearing his voice by reflecting the sound through his palm. Quite weird, but that's what I concluded before.

As for lip surgeries...ah I don't really think so?
 

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Michael always tried covering up the fact he lipsynced.. That's why the more he did it the more he'd cover his mouth while singing. he was very consicous of the look of lipsync. By the time 30th Anniversary he spent half the time with his hands covering his mouth just because of the fact.

Why he didn't cover his mouth in the Bad Tour or the HIStory Tour !
 

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At the beginning of ‘You Are Not Alone’ (in the HIStory Tour), in order for him not to miss the very first cue of the song in front of the audience, every time he had to start lip-syncing the first lines from backstage.

A very embarrassing moment for him on-stage, one might say.

Also, during the HIStory Tour, the backing singers lip-synced, as well. In case of an official release of that tour, this would look nonsensical, if not laughable, to many people.

analogue;4231497 said:
Just before the dance break in the middle of the song, you can hear some live vocals for a split second. I always found it strange that for that split second live vocals are used. I wonder what the reason was

Apparently, he was checking his microphone for the next fully live song.
 

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mj_frenzy;4231533 said:
At the beginning of ‘You Are Not Alone’ (in the HIStory Tour), in order for him not to miss the very first cue of the song in front of the audience, every time he had to start lip-syncing the first lines from backstage.

A very embarrassing moment for him on-stage, one might say.

Also, during the HIStory Tour, the backing singers lip-synced, as well. In case of an official release of that tour, this would look nonsensical, if not laughable, to many people.



Apparently, he was checking his microphone for the next fully live song.

I find this to be honest nonsense. The Munich show has millions of views on YouTube. Many comments range from MJ was the greatest ever to “MJ at his peak”.

Die hard fans are accustomed to every nuance of MJs shows. Casuals aren’t. The HIStory Tour is still a wonderful performance by standards of common people. The hate for the tour comes from people who weren’t there.
 

mj_frenzy

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dam2040;4231534 said:
I find this to be honest nonsense. The Munich show has millions of views on YouTube. Many comments range from MJ was the greatest ever to “MJ at his peak”.

Keep in mind that negative comments are being deleted most of the time by the up-loader of a certain YouTube video.

Also, millions of views is not necessarily a good sigh always. In many cases, people click on YouTube videos just out of curiosity, or because they want to mock what they see.
 

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i'm pretty sure it wasn't for fooling the audience, cause no one heard them at the show. you can compare BBC and HBO mixes of audio. BBC doesn't have any live vocals on Jam, HBO does. In case that show were recordered in multitrack HBO just added some stuff during editing the show.
 

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dam2040;4231534 said:
I find this to be honest nonsense. The Munich show has millions of views on YouTube. Many comments range from MJ was the greatest ever to “MJ at his peak”.

Die hard fans are accustomed to every nuance of MJs shows. Casuals aren’t. The HIStory Tour is still a wonderful performance by standards of common people. The hate for the tour comes from people who weren’t there.

Thank you!
 

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dam2040;4231534 said:
I find this to be honest nonsense. The Munich show has millions of views on YouTube. Many comments range from MJ was the greatest ever to “MJ at his peak”.

Die hard fans are accustomed to every nuance of MJs shows. Casuals aren’t. The HIStory Tour is still a wonderful performance by standards of common people. The hate for the tour comes from people who weren’t there.

I don't know if truer words were ever spoken!

I saw all the Munich Shows from the Dangerous Tour, HIStory Tour & MJ&Friends.

Every Show & Performance was magical, experiencing it live at the venue in Michaels presence.

And of course it was state of the art, high end entertainment setting the bar for years to come.

Michael was a great live singer, he had proven that years & decades earlier! When he leaned on playback in the later stage of his career, it was because of health issues & because what he did on stage was extremely exhausting as a man who was approaching his forties.
 

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Die hard fans are accustomed to every nuance of MJs shows. Casuals aren’t. The HIStory Tour is still a wonderful performance by standards of common people. The hate for the tour comes from people who weren’t there.

I'm sorry but you can't just say that people who don't like the History, because they weren't there. No doubt History tour had some great moments, but excessive lip-syncing wasn't one of those great moments and definitely deserves criticism. You are saying that Michael and even his background singers lip-syncing for like 90% of the show doesn't deserve criticism?

dam2040;4231534 said:
I find this to be honest nonsense. The Munich show has millions of views on YouTube. Many comments range from MJ was the greatest ever to “MJ at his peak”.

As for why the History tour had so many views on youtube. That's because it was MJ's most recent tour, so it has the best quality and it's most easily accessible than his previous tours. That is the reason as to why History Tour has so many views on youtube, not because it was MJ's peak as a performer. And that is another reason why MJ's pre History tours need to be released in HD and blu-ray.

Regarding the negative comments, I'm sure the creator deletes the negative comments from his/her videos.
 
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Hulkamaniac

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As for why the History tour had so many views on youtube. That's because it was MJ's most recent tour, so it has the best quality and it's most easily accessible than his previous tours. That is the reason as to why History Tour has so many views on youtube, not because it was MJ's peak as a performer. And that is another reason why MJ's pre History tours need to be released in HD and blu-ray.

THIS!! I don't get how some people can't get to that simple conclusion.
 

dam2040

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I'm sorry but you can't just say that people who don't like the History, because they weren't there. No doubt History tour had some great moments, but excessive lip-syncing wasn't one of those great moments and definitely deserves criticism. You are saying that Michael and even his background singers lip-syncing for like 90% of the show doesn't deserve criticism?



As for why the History tour had so many views on youtube. That's because it was MJ's most recent tour, so it has the best quality and it's most easily accessible than his previous tours. That is the reason as to why History Tour has so many views on youtube, not because it was MJ's peak as a performer. And that is another reason why MJ's pre History tours need to be released in HD and blu-ray.

Regarding the negative comments, I'm sure the creator deletes the negative comments from his videos.

You have misunderstood my point and spoke about views = quality. Not at all. My point is that a lot of views would bring hate towards this 'oh so terrible' tour, would it not?

I've looked through every Munich video I could find under the search 'Michael Jackson live' - a pretty common search for a non fan, surely? And found nothing. Either every single uploader removes any negative comment [possible!], or, people enjoy watching MJ live. I mean, it's hardly a shock, is it, he is the greatest entertainer of all time.

It looks to me here non-fans give Michael more props than his own fans do for the HIStory tour.

My point is that the excessive hate for the tour stems from the lip-synching. In reality, it's a fantastic show from top-to-bottom, and non-fans compare it to Beyonce shows, compare it to Bieber whoever. Either way, the things some fans constantly moan on forums etc about regarding the tour don't exist for these people. They see Michael kill it on stage and Michael killing it on stage at any point in his career is leagues above anyone else.

I personally think comments on this forum and elsewhere regarding the HIStory Tour are incredibly rude, almost as if Michael was half-assed for the shows. If you had any knowledge or respect for Michael's craft and how he worked you would know that is far from the truth.
 

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Sorry for derailing the thread but it's about time someone stood up for Michael's work on the HIStory tour in my eyes!
 

Hulkamaniac

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lol the non-fans have never watched/heard a full Jacksons show I guarantee you that. If they did they would know that the History tour was not his best tour and what's the big deal about it? None. It's just a fact.
 

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lol the non-fans have never watched/heard a full Jacksons show I guarantee you that. If they did they would know that the History tour was not his best tour and what's the big deal about it? None. It's just a fact.

Trying to pass your opinion off as a fact is ridiculous. This is a subjective matter. It's an interesting discussion as to what fans vs non fans think when they watch MJ perform, but don't try and pass any of it off as a fact.

I personally don't care for any Jacksons tours. The band sound terrible and he's got those idiotic brothers around him. Bad-HIStory are much better, in my eyes. I'm not going to pretend that's a fact, it's an opinion. Very rude to suggest otherwise.
 

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Trying to pass your opinion off as a fact is ridiculous. This is a subjective matter. It's an interesting discussion as to what fans vs non fans think when they watch MJ perform, but don't try and pass any of it off as a fact.

I personally don't care for any Jacksons tours. The band sound terrible and he's got those idiotic brothers around him. Bad-HIStory are much better, in my eyes. I'm not going to pretend that's a fact, it's an opinion. Very rude to suggest otherwise.

I'm someone who believes that live singing is the heart of a show. I understand there are people that put more value on other things such as dancing, production, band etc, but for me singing is the most crucial aspect of a live show. So for that reason, I have History tour as Michael's worst tour by a country mile. Again, like I said, it depends on which aspect of a show you put most value on. For me, that would be singing so Bad, Dangerous and all the Jackson tours are way better than History tour, in my opinion.
 

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I'm someone who believes that live singing is the heart of a show. I understand there are people that put more value on other things such as dancing, production, band etc, but for me singing is the most crucial aspect of a live show. So for that reason, I have History tour as Michael's worst tour by a country mile. Again, like I said, it depends on which aspect of a show you put most value on. For me, that would be singing so Bad, Dangerous and all the Jackson tours are way better than History tour, in my opinion.

Fair enough. But for me, you're going to see a Michael Jackson show, not just him singing. That's what made him so magical. The combination of all of it.
 

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Fair enough. But for me, you're going to see a Michael Jackson show, not just him singing. That's what made him so magical. The combination of all of it.

Even though it is my least favorite tour, History tour does have some fantastic moments and even MJ's worst is still better than most artist's best.
 

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dam2040;4231534 said:
I find this to be honest nonsense. The Munich show has millions of views on YouTube. Many comments range from MJ was the greatest ever to “MJ at his peak”.

Die hard fans are accustomed to every nuance of MJs shows. Casuals aren’t. The HIStory Tour is still a wonderful performance by standards of common people. The hate for the tour comes from people who weren’t there.

I think that's important to reiterate. Die hard fans who have seen footage of multiple concerts and performances and have analysed all this are too spoiled and are going to look at the History tour less favorably. Since the internet has brought almost unlimited access to concert and performance footage from performers, lip syncing has ballooned into this absolute criminal activity even though it was very common practice for pop performers in the 90's. The reason it wasn't as much of an issue was because most audiences didn't have so much readily available footage to look at.

In the 90's I saw a History concert on TV and not once did I ever think that he wasn't singing. The practice of lip syncing didn't even cross my mind because the overall spectacle and his dancing took away from any deception. I have also heard multiple accounts from people who attended his shows that it was never obvious enough to realize. Years later after I had learned about his lip syncing practices on that tour from the internet, I became quite disheartened over it and didn't understand how I and others were so fooled by it because it seems so obvious now.

But I recently saw an amateur recording from Amsterdam 97 from someone who was quite close to the front row, which I loved because Michael was so close it felt like I was there more than any other amateur footage I've seen and I realized that I got so caught up in it, I didn't even take notice of the lip syncing and it actually felt like he was singing and I was enjoying every performance more than if I was watching another Pro performance. It was a really interesting experience and made me realize that it doesn't really matter that he lip synced. He was still Michael Jackson. At that point in his career, after saying he wouldn't tour again and after his health issues deteriorated his live vocals, it was a privilege that he even did that tour and I think maybe that's partly why he thought lip syncing was ok because people would go just to see him to be in his presence which he was fully entitled to because he'd been performing since he was like 10 years old and had nothing left to prove. As many say, Michael Jackson at 50% is still better than most and if I had gotten the opportunity to see him live and the setlist was even 100% playback, I wouldn't have even cared if the man was in front of me.
 

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Snake2J;4231577 said:
I think that's important to reiterate. Die hard fans who have seen footage of multiple concerts and performances and have analysed all this are too spoiled and are going to look at the History tour less favorably. Since the internet has brought almost unlimited access to concert and performance footage from performers, lip syncing has ballooned into this absolute criminal activity even though it was very common practice for pop performers in the 90's. The reason it wasn't as much of an issue was because most audiences didn't have so much readily available footage to look at.

In the 90's I saw a History concert on TV and not once did I ever think that he wasn't singing. The practice of lip syncing didn't even cross my mind because the overall spectacle and his dancing took away from any deception. I have also heard multiple accounts from people who attended his shows that it was never obvious enough to realize. Years later after I had learned about his lip syncing practices on that tour from the internet, I became quite disheartened over it and didn't understand how I and others were so fooled by it because it seems so obvious now.

But I recently saw an amateur recording from Amsterdam 97 from someone who was quite close to the front row, which I loved because Michael was so close it felt like I was there more than any other amateur footage I've seen and I realized that I got so caught up in it, I didn't even take notice of the lip syncing and it actually felt like he was singing and I was enjoying every performance more than if I was watching another Pro performance. It was a really interesting experience and made me realize that it doesn't really matter that he lip synced. He was still Michael Jackson. At that point in his career, after saying he wouldn't tour again and after his health issues deteriorated his live vocals, it was a privilege that he even did that tour and I think maybe that's partly why he thought lip syncing was ok because people would go just to see him to be in his presence which he was fully entitled to because he'd been performing since he was like 10 years old and had nothing left to prove. As many say, Michael Jackson at 50% is still better than most and if I had gotten the opportunity to see him live and the setlist was even 100% playback, I wouldn't have even cared if the man was in front of me.

I don’t really know how to say it but I would honestly say most newer fans just analyse pro footage and leave it as such. These were events real people attended. Trust me, you did not care that Michael didn’t sing live. When he kicked that spaceship door open, you weren’t thinking “oh but he’s going to lip sync”. All the blood rushed to your face and your chest tightened. When I had tickets to This is It I wasn’t wondering what songs he would sing live, I was in a state of pure happpiness that I would see him again. You simply didn’t care.

There’s a great amateur video of Wembley 1997 similar to the one you mentioned. The place was rocking and it’s great to be able to watch it again from a fans perspective. They were all in tears of joy. It was a spectacle, and a truly great show. I cried when I watched the Wembley one and it was just a video. It was such an incredible look into what it was like. I hope one day we can have the technology to create VR experiences of being there based on footage like that so new fans can experience it themselves..

If you had tickets and were waiting for your show, you didn’t care that it was lip syncing. Man I miss those days!!
 

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Mj was criticised by media, fans, and general public who attended history concerts when he lipsynced. It wasn't considered acceptable by everyone in the 90s. Pretending it was is not accurate. It's true that it had been common place but by the mid 90s it was frowned upon to say the least.

I said it before history and before this is it. If you can't sing and dance at the same time then in a concert you need to focus on singing. You can mime for the music video but not when people pay money to see you perform. This is why this is it would have been a public relationships nightmare if it went ahead. Mj was going to mime decades old songs while dancing slower and with less energy than ever before. People accept a 50 year dancing less but singing live. They don't accept a 50 year old dancing slower than ever while miming.
 

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dam2040;4231584 said:
I don’t really know how to say it but I would honestly say most newer fans just analyse pro footage and leave it as such. These were events real people attended. Trust me, you did not care that Michael didn’t sing live. When he kicked that spaceship door open, you weren’t thinking “oh but he’s going to lip sync”. All the blood rushed to your face and your chest tightened. When I had tickets to This is It I wasn’t wondering what songs he would sing live, I was in a state of pure happpiness that I would see him again. You simply didn’t care.

There’s a great amateur video of Wembley 1997 similar to the one you mentioned. The place was rocking and it’s great to be able to watch it again from a fans perspective. They were all in tears of joy. It was a spectacle, and a truly great show. I cried when I watched the Wembley one and it was just a video. It was such an incredible look into what it was like. I hope one day we can have the technology to create VR experiences of being there based on footage like that so new fans can experience it themselves..

If you had tickets and were waiting for your show, you didn’t care that it was lip syncing. Man I miss those days!!

Exactly. When you were in a crowd of 70k you couldnt even tell and i very much doubt in that moment for some who it was their first time seeing mj i doubt they cared one iota as their dream of seeing mj was coming true.if it was seeing mj performing a mainly mimed show or been like younger fans who never got to experience a mj show then you know very well what people would chose. You know even now after everything we know about how mj suffered doing tours. Having to use diprivan just to be able to sleep knowing he had no choice as he had shows to do. Knowing how he had a chronic longterm lung condition that would have effected his lung capacity that would have made it even more difficult than it already was to sing live while performing dance routines. yet still you have some posters on here saying he shouldnt have done this or that.mj wanted everything to be perfect he wanted to dance the full routines (what people expected and no doubt would have been critized for if he hadnt.mj could not to do right for wrong in some peoples eyes)The fact he died because of performing concerts.i wish he had quit touring long before then he would still be here with his kids instead some moan about things they may not have even been alive to see in the first place.

Yes mj had issues with his top lip around 2001.some thought it was a botox issue or with his lupus. It was well known about and discussed at the time. but never confirmed as to what it was as it healed over time and that was it
 
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dam2040

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MJTruth;4231587 said:
Mj was criticised by media, fans, and general public who attended history concerts when he lipsynced. It wasn't considered acceptable by everyone in the 90s. Pretending it was is not accurate. It's true that it had been common place but by the mid 90s it was frowned upon to say the least.

I said it before history and before this is it. If you can't sing and dance at the same time then in a concert you need to focus on singing. You can mime for the music video but not when people pay money to see you perform. This is why this is it would have been a public relationships nightmare if it went ahead. Mj was going to mime decades old songs while dancing slower and with less energy than ever before. People accept a 50 year dancing less but singing live. They don't accept a 50 year old dancing slower than ever while miming.

Ridiculous to mention This Is It. Michael was in a terrible condition for those concerts and stood no chance. If he was fully prepared it would have been fine but we all know those around him didn’t care. They cared for $. It would have been a disaster because he was forced into doing too many shows and not being cared for properly.

“The industry wanted Michael Jackson live, we just wanted Michael Jackson alive”.
 

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elusive moonwalker;4231588 said:
Exactly. When you were in a crowd of 70k you couldnt even tell and i very much doubt in that moment for some who it was their first time seeing mj i doubt they cared one iota as their dream of seeing mj was coming true.if it was seeing mj performing a mainly mimed show or been like younger fans who never got to experience a mj show then you know very well what people would chose. You know even now after everything we know about how mj suffered doing tours. Having to use diprivan just to be able to sleep knowing he had no choice as he had shows to do. Knowing how he had a chronic longterm lung condition that would have effected his lung capacity that would have made it even more difficult than it already was to sing live while performing dance routines. yet still you have some posters on here saying he shouldnt have done this or that.mj wanted everything to be perfect he wanted to dance the full routines (what people expected and no doubt would have been critized for if he hadnt.mj could not to do right for wrong in some peoples eyes)The fact he died because of performing concerts.i wish he had quit touring long before then he would still be here with his kids instead some moan about things they may not have even been alive to see in the first place.

Yes mj had issues with his top lip around 2001.some thought it was a botox issue or with his lupus. It was well known about and discussed at the time. but never confirmed as to what it was as it healed over time and that was it

Exactly but I feel like most ignore all that because They’ve watched 3 history shows on YouTube and know everything.

Its hard to explain if you weren’t there during the time but you just didn’t care about any of it
 
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