Cascio Tracks - Are the Songs Fake?

SmoothGangsta

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I don't understand how Teddy Riley could have been tricked by these songs. He's worked with MJ since 1991, so he should have been able to pick up on the fact that those songs were fake. Or he should have at least been suspicious of them.

He wasn't tricked. He never thought they were real but he kept working on them in hopes he would receive a real song to work on. He did eventually with Hollywood Tonight.
 

SmoothGangsta

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I sure hope not for those fans. - And I doubt it very much.



Me too. Would be nice. - Because there are 7 very good songs - some eben brilliant. I really love Much Too Soon, Hollywood Tonight and Best of Joy.



That was one of the biggest mistakes ever made in the music buisness.... And a HUGE mistake for future releases too.
If in doubt - leave it out...

I think The Estate and SONY genuine belivede the songs to be MJ songs, no doubt, they were tricked by Eddie Cascio. BUT HOW??
Teddy Riley worked with the vocals? - Normally MJ talked in between takes, numbled, humming etc. etc. - if all of that all of a sudden is missing from demo vocal tracks - he should have been alarmed... How could he allow it to happen??
Many is to blame in some extent - but mostly Eddied Cascio - because he must be the one who started it all and convinced The Estate and SONY that it was MJ.

How Eddie Cascio can live with himself is beyound me... Every time he hear MJ's Money he really should have a bad taste in his mouth....

He allowed it to happen because he was greedy and wanted real MJ material to work on.
 

Nite Line

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I don't understand how Teddy Riley could have been tricked by these songs. He's worked with MJ since 1991, so he should have been able to pick up on the fact that those songs were fake. Or he should have at least been suspicious of them.

He wasn't tricked. He knew all along that they weren't MJ's. He was just greedy for money.
 

DanGerouS-

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I always tried to believe it's him at the beginning.

the opening line on breaking news was already fishy to me and after hearing the leaked Cascio tracks it was more than obvious.
 

Moviefan2k4

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It's been said but I'll say it again, everyone thought those songs were shady as all hell, but Sony and the Estate went ahead anyway.
Speak for yourself. I never suspected any kind of forgery with the Cascio tracks, and I've been a fan of Michael's music for almost 30 years. Yes, the pitch sounds a little higher, but he had a multi-octave range, so I never had any reason to consider tampering. Then people started insisting all over the Internet that all three songs were fake, and some of Michael's own family said the same, too. Even now, I don't know what to think; I enjoy all three songs, and i hope we'll know beyond a reasonable doubt someday. But that's up to Eddie Cascio, Sony, and the Estate to reveal; the best anyone can do until then is guess.
 

SmoothGangsta

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Speak for yourself. I never suspected any kind of forgery with the Cascio tracks, and I've been a fan of Michael's music for almost 30 years. Yes, the pitch sounds a little higher, but he had a multi-octave range, so I never had any reason to consider tampering. Then people started insisting all over the Internet that all three songs were fake, and some of Michael's own family said the same, too. Even now, I don't know what to think; I enjoy all three songs, and i hope we'll know beyond a reasonable doubt someday. But that's up to Eddie Cascio, Sony, and the Estate to reveal; the best anyone can do until then is guess.

I meant everyone who had worked with Michael who heard them. Remember that meeting the Estate said they had where they played them the a capella tracks of the Cascio songs? They said that they all agreed that the vocals were MJ, well, that wasn't how it went at all. Almost all of them said that they were quite sure it wasn't MJ and the others said they couldn't tell either way. Would you still put them on an album after a room full of former collaborators have told you that they don't think it's him or that they are having issues believing it was him? People who have worked intimately with one of the most well known voices in the world and they don't even believe it's him? It defies all logic and honestly at that point it doesn't even matter if it's him or not, if MJ sounded that bad that they had to mess around his voice to make it conveniently sound exactly like an MJ impersonator (lol) then the tracks should have never been released anyway.
 

Moviefan2k4

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I meant everyone who had worked with Michael who heard them. Remember that meeting the Estate said they had where they played them the a capella tracks of the Cascio songs? They said that they all agreed that the vocals were MJ, well, that wasn't how it went at all. Almost all of them said that they were quite sure it wasn't MJ and the others said they couldn't tell either way. Would you still put them on an album after a room full of former collaborators have told you that they don't think it's him or that they are having issues believing it was him? People who have worked intimately with one of the most well known voices in the world and they don't even believe it's him? It defies all logic and honestly at that point it doesn't even matter if it's him or not, if MJ sounded that bad that they had to mess around his voice to make it conveniently sound exactly like an MJ impersonator (lol) then the tracks should have never been released anyway.
I can't really comment on this, since I never investigated any of the claims made either way. These kids of situations often become two parties blaming each other for a while, until the proverbial dust settles and the truth comes out. Still waiting on that last part...
 

SmoothGangsta

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I can't really comment on this, since I never investigated any of the claims made either way. These kids of situations often become two parties blaming each other for a while, until the proverbial dust settles and the truth comes out. Still waiting on that last part...

I recommend you look at the old threads regarding this topic as there's a lot of info there about the situation that's quite eye opening.
 

AlwaysThere

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These kids of situations often become two parties blaming each other for a while, until the proverbial dust settles and the truth comes out.

There actually hasn't been any back and forth blaming between the two. This is actually very one-sided.

No one has voiced support for the Cascio tracks (barring John Branca and Teddy Riley, the latter of whom has since come out and effectively admitted that he had lied). Not a single collaborator, not a single family member, not a single friend.

At best, you've got Quincy Jones saying that the song was so processed that he couldn't tell either way. At worst, you've got Cory Rooney claiming that Sony lied and that most of Michael's confidants believed they were fake.

And even better: in the recent fraud lawsuit, one of the responsible parties (I believe it was Sony) defended the tracks by saying that "the Michael album didn't explicitly state that every track was performed by Michael Jackson." Which while true -- nowhere in the album booklet are the words "Lead Vocals by Michael Jackson" -- is the clearest admission of guilt I can possibly muster.
 

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^ Sony was 'clever' saying that but I don't see it as omission of guilt, more so I see it as covering there @$$ no matter what the outcome is. that sounds like 100% drummed up by a layer telling them to state that.
 

SmoothGangsta

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^ Sony was 'clever' saying that but I don't see it as omission of guilt, more so I see it as covering there @$$ no matter what the outcome is. that sounds like 100% drummed up by a layer telling them to state that.

I'm pretty sure them premiering breaking news as the first new unheard MJ track on MJ's website is them saying he is singing it.
 

KOPV

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^ yeah, I'm not arguing that at all. That doesn't have to do with what I said, but agree with you.
 

Moviefan2k4

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There actually hasn't been any back and forth blaming between the two. This is actually very one-sided.

No one has voiced support for the Cascio tracks (barring John Branca and Teddy Riley, the latter of whom has since come out and effectively admitted that he had lied). Not a single collaborator, not a single family member, not a single friend.

At best, you've got Quincy Jones saying that the song was so processed that he couldn't tell either way. At worst, you've got Cory Rooney claiming that Sony lied and that most of Michael's confidants believed they were fake.

And even better: in the recent fraud lawsuit, one of the responsible parties (I believe it was Sony) defended the tracks by saying that "the Michael album didn't explicitly state that every track was performed by Michael Jackson." Which while true -- nowhere in the album booklet are the words "Lead Vocals by Michael Jackson" -- is the clearest admission of guilt I can possibly muster.
I assume you're referring to Michael's family members, because Frank Cascio has said on camera he believes the songs are legit. Of course, people instantly assumed he was trying to defend his brother, as if no other reason could exist for his claims (sigh)...
 

aurinho

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When i heard the premiering of BN, i heard no michael maybe in the refrain and only a little bit.
 

innuendo141

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Speak for yourself. I never suspected any kind of forgery with the Cascio tracks, and I've been a fan of Michael's music for almost 30 years. Yes, the pitch sounds a little higher, but he had a multi-octave range, so I never had any reason to consider tampering. Then people started insisting all over the Internet that all three songs were fake, and some of Michael's own family said the same, too. Even now, I don't know what to think; I enjoy all three songs, and i hope we'll know beyond a reasonable doubt someday. But that's up to Eddie Cascio, Sony, and the Estate to reveal; the best anyone can do until then is guess.

Not even if Michael told me himself that they were his vocals would I believe it.
 

AlwaysThere

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^ Sony was 'clever' saying that but I don't see it as omission of guilt, more so I see it as covering there @$$ no matter what the outcome is. that sounds like 100% drummed up by a layer telling them to state that.

Sony could have submitted the two forensic audio examinations performed back in 2010 by the unnamed musicologists, or the handwritten studio session notes or video footage that has been rumored to exist. Hell, they even could have simply defended themselves by saying, "It is to our understanding and belief that all ten tracks on Michael are completely performed by Michael Jackson." There are a million ways for them to have approached this situation.

Yet they decided to go with, "Hey, we never said that Michael performed lead vocals on every song." Not only is that an admission that they have no proof that he was involved with the songs, but also that they at least somewhat doubt their authenticity themselves, and may have lied about the audio comparison tests done in 2010.

It makes no sense why their first move wouldn't be to defend themselves and the songs.

I assume you're referring to Michael's family members, because Frank Cascio has said on camera he believes the songs are legit. Of course, people instantly assumed he was trying to defend his brother, as if no other reason could exist for his claims (sigh)...

Completely forgot about Frank - my bad! Yes, he's defended the songs, but as you mentioned there is a massive conflict of interest that rightfully makes me doubt my trust in him.

If these songs are legitimate, it boggles my mind as to why they have so few supporters. Some disowned them entirely (Chucky Klapow, Rodney Jerkins, Cory Rooney, Karen Faye, will.i.am), others said nothing (Greg Phillinganes, Brad Buxer, Dorian Holley, Neff-U, Michael Prince). You'd think that someone would step forward and say, "These songs are real!"
 
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Paw

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It just amazed me that people only wanted to quote what they wanted to quote and believed what they wanted to believe. Please stop twisting facts or acting like getting the full picture yet still being biased actually.
The core of the controversy is whether the lead vocal on Cascio songs is Michael Jackson or not. Fans debated over it, but until now neither side has been convinced. That's why we have a lawsuit, which is still at the very initial phase, going on thanks to Vera Serova. Nothing significant surfaced so far, however some fans took legal tactic (e. g. "we never said all lead vocals performed by MJ" ) from defendant attorney as excuse to back their own opinion, again! Even worse, they started to say Estate and Sony admitted Cascio songs are fake while they didn't. There was nothing but legal tactic, key players haven't addressed anything yet.
The Cascio song drama started way before "Breaking News" premiere. People like John McClain and some members of Jackson family rocked the boat out of their own profit. To some fans, these guys were like heroes defending Michael's legacy. But how could you make this type of claim when Cascio songs were in McClain's hands in the first place, and sh*t just started when his mix was rejected? Ask Cascio's, Teddy Riley, Randy Jackson for the full story if you are interested.
Oh, all the Jackson family members resisted Cascio songs? Where was Marlon? Where was Tito? How could you say "all" when at least two siblings haven't voiced their opinions yet? Also, let's not forget Rebbie Jackson and Austin Brown attended James Porte, the co-writer of Cascio songs, and Marie-Nicole Cascio's wedding. Such "betrayers", eh? Even Paris Jackson seemed to have forgotten about these "fake" tracks, and hung with Eddie Cascio and his family recently. Maybe she was still too young, just needed some old pals to accompany with her for a while? Ironic!
What about Humberto Gatica? What about Stuart Brawley? We shouldn't believe those who said Cascio songs were Michael, they must have been paid to lie? Why not back off and wait on the result of lawsuit instead of jumping at a conclusion?
 
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Korgnex

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It just amazed me that people only wanted to quote what they wanted to quote and believed what they wanted to believe. Please stop twisting facts or acting like getting the full picture yet still being biased actually.
The core of the controversy is whether the lead vocal on Cascio songs is Michael Jackson or not. Fans debated over it, but until now neither side has been convinced. That's why we have a lawsuit, which is still at the very initial phase, going on thanks to Vera Serova. Nothing significant surfaced so far, however some fans took legal tactic (e. g. "we never said all lead vocals performed by MJ" ) from defendant attorney as excuse to back their own opinion, again! Even worse, they started to say Estate and Sony admitted Cascio songs are fake while they didn't. There was nothing but legal tactic, key players haven't addressed anything yet.
The Cascio song drama started way before "Breaking News" premiere. People like John McClain and some members of Jackson family rocked the boat out of their own profit. To some fans, these guys were like heroes defending Michael's legacy. But how could you make this type of claim when Cascio songs were in McClain's hands in the first place, and sh*t just started when his mix was rejected? Ask Cascio's, Teddy Riley, Randy Jackson for the full story if you are interested.
Oh, all the Jackson family members resisted Cascio songs? Where was Marlon? Where was Tito? How could you say "all" when at least two siblings haven't voiced their opinions yet? Also, let's not forget Rebbie Jackson and Austin Brown attended James Porte, the co-writer of Cascio songs, and Marie-Nicole Cascio's wedding. Such "betrayers", eh? Even Paris Jackson seemed to have forgotten about these "fake" tracks, and hung with Eddie Cascio and his family recently. Maybe she was still too young, just needed some old pals to accompany with her for a while? Ironic!
What about Humberto Gatica? What about Stuart Brawley? We shouldn't believe those who said Cascio songs were Michael, they must have been paid to lie? Why not back off and wait on the result of lawsuit instead of jumping at a conclusion?

Somehow this reminds me of current Trumpland and the era of post factum ("alternate facts").
You only forgot to mention that people have been misusing Teddy Riley's tweet ("I was set up") by claiming he would have admitted to having worked on alleged fake tracks while all he did was simply saying he had done no original work on the songs that he was given, after months of certain fans harassing him via social media. Never did he say anything about the tracks allegedly being fake.

For years it's been totally pointless to even try to get people back to reality.
J.M. as the alleged singer has always been a sore spot and dead end in this debate of false accusations and conspiracy. In that regard, watch the lawsuit going to trial and learn is all I have to say.


Btw, same for Stuart Brawley allegedly being responsible for the leak of "Xscape". Another ongoing myth deliberately spread and tediously quoted online, particulary in the very same debate.



Not even if Michael told me himself that they were his vocals would I believe it.

These are very honest words. And this brings the debate down to one core issue: some people would NEVER accept the vocals being sourced from Michael Jackson. For them it's eg a devaluation of his talent.
Having an opinion is okay. Forcing an opinion on others - like some do - is NOT.

This will forever stay an endless debate for some, just like some people saying MJ was allegedly "murdered" or the 2002 will allegedly being a forgery.
 
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Electro

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For years it's been totally pointless to even try to get people back to reality.

So why is Mr. Korgnex writing here then? :smilerolleyes:

What you always dismissed, to serve your own believe, is that the majority of doubters are not doubting these songs because of what someone, some officials, producers or crazy fans SAID, but because of what they HEAR in these songs.

Yes, there are always some overly passionate fans who take things too far. But that does not prove that their initial cause to doubt is automatically wrong, and that anyone doubting to whatever extend is out of touch with reality. That's just your reality.

Since as of now there is no hard proof against or for the legitimacy of these songs... it's down to EARS. And if you don't hear it, you don't hear it... good for you.
 

innuendo141

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These are very honest words. And this brings the debate down to one core issue: some people would NEVER accept the vocals being sourced from Michael Jackson. For them it's eg a devaluation of his talent.
Having an opinion is okay. Forcing an opinion on others - like some do - is NOT.

This will forever stay an endless debate for some, just like some people saying MJ was allegedly "murdered" or the 2002 will allegedly being a forgery.

Nope, it's simply down to what I hear, or rather, what I don't hear, which is the voice of Michael Jackson.
 

SmoothMJ

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Nope, it's simply down to what I hear, or rather, what I don't hear, which is the voice of Michael Jackson.

And you are, rather arrogantly, saying YOU know Michael's voice so well, that he would be lying if he categorically stated it WAS him singing.

I, on the other hand, WOULD believe Michael if he told me he was or wasn't singing. I have a more open mind, I suppose. Whereas some people close their minds way too easily.

That is why it's not worth entering a debate with some people on some subjects.
 

innuendo141

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And you are, rather arrogantly, saying YOU know Michael's voice so well, that he would be lying if he categorically stated it WAS him singing.

I, on the other hand, WOULD believe Michael if he told me he was or wasn't singing. I have a more open mind, I suppose. Whereas some people close their minds way too easily.

That is why it's not worth entering a debate with some people on some subjects.

I didnt mean it to come across as arrogance, but more confidence. My earlier comment was a piss take... kind of.

I'm well open to debate but I don't consider myself closed minded. I did state it was just my opinion, I'm not forcing it on anyone, nor have I made a comment about anyone elses opinion. Ive tried as hard as anyone to believe these songs and I cant. At all.

I also find them to be beyond terrible but thats neither here nor there.
 

barbee0715

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Sony could have submitted the two forensic audio examinations performed back in 2010 by the unnamed musicologists, or the handwritten studio session notes or video footage that has been rumored to exist. Hell, they even could have simply defended themselves by saying, "It is to our understanding and belief that all ten tracks on Michael are completely performed by Michael Jackson." There are a million ways for them to have approached this situation.

Yet they decided to go with, "Hey, we never said that Michael performed lead vocals on every song." Not only is that an admission that they have no proof that he was involved with the songs, but also that they at least somewhat doubt their authenticity themselves, and may have lied about the audio comparison tests done in 2010.

It makes no sense why their first move wouldn't be to defend themselves and the songs.
"Hey, we never said that Michael performed lead vocals on every song." I agree-that was a really bad answer and it should have been like the bolded. First time I've seen them give a really questionable answer to something-maybe it's important in the legalese world, but it didn't make sense to me.

I guess I'm on the Quincy side about the processing-the processing on 'Breaking News' was so thick, who could tell? I wasn't on the forum back then, and didn't even know there were such things as forums. But I was on Michael's official web site when they broke "This is It" and within seconds people were commenting that it was an old Paul Anka song and Paul Anka was calling TMZ.

Then I heard "Hold My Hand", which I didn't like, then came this-and to me, it sounded like they had just copied over a bunch of vocals from other Michael Jackson songs and pieced them together-again, I didn't like it at all-and within a day came the impostor claims. So, I never checked out the other songs on the album-obviously didn't buy it.

The one thing I do think (like KOPV) is that Branca would have had no reason to doubt Eddie Cascio regarding the songs-he would have known that family most of their entire life-and he would have had no reason not to trust him.
 

SmoothGangsta

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The processing is argument is so old. There's no more processing on those songs than there would be on any other pop song
 

innuendo141

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"Hey, we never said that Michael performed lead vocals on every song." I agree-that was a really bad answer and it should have been like the bolded. First time I've seen them give a really questionable answer to something-maybe it's important in the legalese world, but it didn't make sense to me.

I guess I'm on the Quincy side about the processing-the processing on 'Breaking News' was so thick, who could tell? I wasn't on the forum back then, and didn't even know there were such things as forums. But I was on Michael's official web site when they broke "This is It" and within seconds people were commenting that it was an old Paul Anka song and Paul Anka was calling TMZ.

Then I heard "Hold My Hand", which I didn't like, then came this-and to me, it sounded like they had just copied over a bunch of vocals from other Michael Jackson songs and pieced them together-again, I didn't like it at all-and within a day came the impostor claims. So, I never checked out the other songs on the album-obviously didn't buy it.

The one thing I do think (like KOPV) is that Branca would have had no reason to doubt Eddie Cascio regarding the songs-he would have known that family most of their entire life-and he would have had no reason not to trust him.

There are so many questions but the fact that this has happened, been allowed to happen on an official Michael Jackson release is the biggest blunder in the history of the music industry. People believe its him, people dont believe its him. Regardless of what side you are on, it is an absolute embarrassemnt that this has become a part of his legacy.

This is something that is discussed more than Liberian Girl or The Lady In My Life. That's the biggest shame. Michael Jackson deserved a lot better than what this has done to his "posthumous career". Its absolutely unheard of for any other artist. Its one thing for the Estate and Sony to release music that may not to be to everyone's tastes ( I quite dislike Xscape, but a LOT of people love it), but to release something so, so questionable is beyond me.
 
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