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Lady S

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

What do Christians believe happened to the people that died before Jesus came to earth? Because the Bible says the only way to heaven is through Jesus, right? But these people could not possibly know of Jesus existence, so did they have any chance of going to heaven?

I have always wondered about this. Does the Bible address this?
That's a good question:) You'll find mixed answers on this but some denominations will say that you have to explicitly believe in Him, whereas other branches of Christianity say that we humans cannot ascribe an eternal fate to those who don't explicitly believe in Jesus because that's not our job, it's God who knows our hearts. :)

However, I still believe an implicit belief in Jesus is necessary, even if you don't realize consciously that you believe in Him. I read C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity a few years ago and he also acknowledges the silence of the Bible on this matter:) Here's what he has to say on this.
The world does not consist of 100 percent Christians and 100 non-Christians. There are people (a great many of them) who are slowly ceasing to be Christians but who still call themselves by that name: some of them are clergymen. There are other people who are slowly becoming Christians though they do not yet call themselves so. There are people who do not accept the full doctrine about Christ but who are so strongly attracted by Him that they are His in a much deeper sense than they themselves understand. There are people in other religions who are being led by God's secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religion which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it. For example, a Buddhist of good will may be led to concentrate more and more on the Buddhist teaching about mercy and to leave in the background (though he might still say he believed) the Buddhist teaching on certain other points. Many of the good Pagans before Christ's birth may have been in this position.
I forgot what chapter of the book it's in (I found it on the internet), but his chapter The Perfect Penitent was an inspiration in me understanding why it is sensible that God is a Trinity - I'm really glad that he wrote his perspective on why he believed a Trinity was necessary because it sheds a lot of light on the faith. :)

I don't know what to say of those who do know of Jesus' existence yet still don't believe in Him:( I guess it depends on how well they know and understand His teachings. But as far as I am concerned, you have to "know" it is the truth before you reject it. If your brain doesn't think that Jesus is the truth, and rejects Him, I wonder...is it the same culpability as those who, deep down, "know" (in their hearts at least) that Jesus is the truth but willfully disobey Him?

Unfortunately - I'm in the latter category at this stage of my life. I do not believe in the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine and believe that if you call yourself a follower of Christ and believe in your heart that Jesus is the way to heaven but you willfully and consciously act in a way that is contrary to what Jesus would want, without repenting of it, it can endanger your salvation. Right now I don't really feel like I'm saved because there are commandments of Jesus that I know in my heart are true but I am willfully disobeying them but at the same time I feel terrible about it - but do I feel terrible because I'm afraid of hell or do I feel terrible because I know it's right after committing my mistake? (that doesn't mean I disobey Him on everything, not by a longshot)

That is, just because I call myself a Christian and just because Jesus came to earth before me and just because I know that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, I don't think it automatically gives me a one-way ticket to heaven. I commit sin all the time that Jesus would be very angry with. I repent and I do hope that is enough. Such sins are difficulties forgiving people, withholding my faith from my family so they don't throw a gasket, not practicing it openly for the same reason, etc. Jesus isn't a big fan of those who won't forgive (but I wish He'd understand how HARD it is to), nor does He like it when we try to please men over God (in this case, keeping my faith hidden from my family so they don't get mad). I kinda wish I knew why we humans have to forgive but God doesn't - I was in a discussion about this somewhere and I think I got good answers, but I have to dig it up from awhile back. (it's not here).
 

LindavG

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Jesus has always existed. The bible says in the book of John that in the beginning was the word and the WORD was God and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Before Jesus actual flesh birth God reviled himself to Adam and Eve as Elohim, to Moses as the Great I Am and to Abraham as Jehovah, to Mary and Joseph as Jesus. Different names for different dispensations of time but always the same Christian God.

Thank you for you answer. So you believe Jews and Christians worship the same God? I have heard some Christians say that Jesus changed or added to the "Old Law" and that the New Testament holds greater value to them than the Old Testament. How can that be, if both are the Word of God, shouldn't they be equally important? And why would God want to change or add to His own Law?

If you (or someone else, of course) will be so kind, I hope you can answer another question. I have never understood the concept of praying, in particular praying for someone else. Do you believe that the more people pray for a particular person, the more inclined God is to answer those prayers? But what happens when a person is all alone, or does not know anyone who worships the 'right' God? Is God less likely to bless that person?

Also, what happens to children who are not raised in a Christian family when they die? Does God condemn them to eternal damnation even though they were too young to learn about Christianity on their own?
 

LindavG

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

That's a good question:) You'll find mixed answers on this but some denominations will say that you have to explicitly believe in Him, whereas other branches of Christianity say that we humans cannot ascribe an eternal fate to those who don't explicitly believe in Jesus because that's not our job, it's God who knows our hearts. :)

First of all, thank you for your long and informative answer! :) I know there are many different denominations in Christianity so it is probably not so easy to define the Christian position on a certain matter.

I forgot what chapter of the book it's in (I found it on the internet), but his chapter The Perfect Penitent was an inspiration in me understanding why it is sensible that God is a Trinity - I'm really glad that he wrote his perspective on why he believed a Trinity was necessary because it sheds a lot of light on the faith. :)

Can you tell me why a Trinity is sensible? To me, that is one aspect of Christianity I have always found contradictory. How can God be both the Father and the Son, when a son is subject to his father thus not of equal importance? According to the hierarchy of the Bible, a man is the head of a woman, Jesus is the head of a man and God is the head of Jesus. In other words, the three elements of the Trinity are not in balance because one ranks over the other, right?

I don't know what to say of those who do know of Jesus' existence yet still don't believe in Him:( I guess it depends on how well they know and understand His teachings. But as far as I am concerned, you have to "know" it is the truth before you reject it. If your brain doesn't think that Jesus is the truth, and rejects Him, I wonder...is it the same culpability as those who, deep down, "know" (in their hearts at least) that Jesus is the truth but willfully disobey Him?

I guess you can count me in that category as I am an Agnostic ;) I do believe in many of the values Jesus taught (such as love and forgiveness, which I believe are universal virtues) but I cannot honestly say I believe in the Christrian doctrine. I am open-minded about all religions and I have tried to read the Bible, but I just do not believe it. Not in the literal sense, that is. You could argue with me that the Bible is a book of ethics that is in part spiritually inspired, and I would concede that is a good possibility, but I cannot bring myself to believe it is the Word of God. That does not mean I reject all spirituality, though. I believe there is so much about the universe that we don't know - and will never know because our human comprehension is far too limited to grasp it - and I am inclined to believe in some sort of outer "energy" that has set it all into motion. I guess you could conceptualise this energy into being a "God", but it could also be something entirely impersonal, a chemical-like force that does not 'think' or 'feel', let alone distinguish right from wrong. We as humans also possess a certain energy but what happens when we die? Does that energy just disappear, does it transform, or does it move to another dimension that we, with our limited human understanding, are uncapable to perceive? In any case, I don't think we are 'meant' to know about the metaphysical.

Unfortunately - I'm in the latter category at this stage of my life. I do not believe in the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine and believe that if you call yourself a follower of Christ and believe in your heart that Jesus is the way to heaven but you willfully and consciously act in a way that is contrary to what Jesus would want, without repenting of it, it can endanger your salvation. Right now I don't really feel like I'm saved because there are commandments of Jesus that I know in my heart are true but I am willfully disobeying them but at the same time I feel terrible about it - but do I feel terrible because I'm afraid of hell or do I feel terrible because I know it's right after committing my mistake? (that doesn't mean I disobey Him on everything, not by a longshot)

To be fair, I think it is simply impossible for any person in this day and age to follow all the commandments of the Bible. For example, the Bible forbids you to wear two different kinds of fabric on your body, meaning that if you wear woolen socks, you must also wear woolen trousers. Where do you find these things nowadays? ;)
 

Lady S

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

First of all, thank you for your long and informative answer! :) I know there are many different denominations in Christianity so it is probably not so easy to define the Christian position on a certain matter.



Can you tell me why a Trinity is sensible? To me, that is one aspect of Christianity I have always found contradictory. How can God be both the Father and the Son, when a son is subject to his father thus not of equal importance? According to the hierarchy of the Bible, a man is the head of a woman, Jesus is the head of a man and God is the head of Jesus. In other words, the three elements of the Trinity are not in balance because one ranks over the other, right?



I guess you can count me in that category as I am an Agnostic ;) I do believe in many of the values Jesus taught (such as love and forgiveness, which I believe are universal virtues) but I cannot honestly say I believe in the Christrian doctrine. I am open-minded about all religions and I have tried to read the Bible, but I just do not believe it. Not in the literal sense, that is. You could argue with me that the Bible is a book of ethics that is in part spiritually inspired, and I would concede that is a good possibility, but I cannot bring myself to believe it is the Word of God. That does not mean I reject all spirituality, though. I believe there is so much about the universe that we don't know - and will never know because our human comprehension is far too limited to grasp it - and I am inclined to believe in some sort of outer "energy" that has set it all into motion. I guess you could conceptualise this energy into being a "God", but it could also be something entirely impersonal, a chemical-like force that does not 'think' or 'feel', let alone distinguish right from wrong. We as humans also possess a certain energy but what happens when we die? Does that energy just disappear, does it transform, or does it move to another dimension that we, with our limited human understanding, are uncapable to perceive? In any case, I don't think we are 'meant' to know about the metaphysical.



To be fair, I think it is simply impossible for any person in this day and age to follow all the commandments of the Bible. For example, the Bible forbids you to wear two different kinds of fabric on your body, meaning that if you wear woolen socks, you must also wear woolen trousers. Where do you find these things nowadays? ;)
Haha well I believe that "energy" is a God but I hope it's like the God (i.e. God the Father) that loves us and cares about us just as a good father on earth would - know what I mean? I just wish though that it didn't seem like some people get abandoned by Him though:( I mean...people starving to death or people get raped and murdered, but I also think that it is the people's fault but it still hurts me when He allows things like this to happen because I want to believe in the personal, loving aspect of God instead - that actually would help me feel less worthless to know that whoever created me did so because He wanted me to be here - He wanted me to exist and didn't want me to feel like I was this meaningless person...I keep hoping that is His intent because when you feel rejected by people (and that happens all the time)...you hope there's something to lean on..at least I do...

you can kind of tell that I'm not the best at helping someone understand this stuff.

as far as the Trinity...I still don't even understand how it works entirely. Sometimes it looks paganistic (I don't have a cow about that though...heck if it looks a little pagan it isn't gonna kill me) and I will never understand how the 3 Persons really interact, but...CS Lewis' interpretation on why the Father "has" to have a Son is more convincing to me than other interpretations of the Trinity. HOWEVER the underlying assumption in his interpretation is that God is a perfect being. You "have" to read his interpretation under that assumption (even if you have to be objective about that assumption). It's like...God is our Father and like an earthly father teaching his earthly son, the Heavenly Father SORT of does a similar thing for His Heavenly Son but with a twist. It's like...God has to show humans how to do something that God Himself never has done...so how can God help us then? by becoming a man himself...it is a very deep thing and to this day, I could read his excerpt over and over again and still pick up something different from it:
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
We are told that Christ was killed for us, that His death has washed out our sins, and that by dying He disabled death itself. That is the formula. That is Christianity. That is what has to be believed. Any theories we build up as to how Christ's death did all this are, in my view, quite secondary: mere plans or diagrams to be left alone if they do not help us, and, even if they do help us, not to be confused with the thing itself. All the same, some of these theories are worth looking at.


The one most people have heard is the one about our being let off because Christ volunteered to bear a punishment instead of us. Now on the face of it that is a very silly theory. If God was prepared to let us off, why on earth did He not do so? And what possible point could there be in punishing an innocent person instead? None at all that I can see, if you are thinking of punishment in the police-court sense. On the other hand, if you think of a debt, there is plenty of point in a person who has some assets paying it on behalf of someone who has not. Or if you take "paying the penalty," not in the sense of being punished, but in the more general sense of "footing the bill," then, of course, it is a matter of common experience that, when one person has got himself into a hole, the trouble of getting him out usually falls on a kind friend.


Now what was the sort of "hole" man had gotten himself into? He had tried to set up on his own, to behave as if he belonged to himself. In other words, fallen man is not simply an imperfect creature who needs improvement: he is a rebel who must lay down his arms. Laying down your arms, surrendering, saying you are sorry, realising that you have been on the wrong track and getting ready to start life over again from the ground floor - that is the only way out of a "hole." This process of surrender - this movement full speed astern - is what Christians call repentance. Now repentance is no fun at all. It is something much harder than merely eating humble pie. It means unlearning all the self-conceit and self-will that we have been training ourselves into for thousands of years. It means undergoing a kind of death. In fact, it needs a good man to repent. And here's the catch. Only a bad person needs to repent: only a good person can repent perfectly. The worse you are the more you need it and the less you can do it. The only person who could do it perfectly would be a perfect person - and he would not need it.

Remember, this repentance, this willing submission to humiliation and a kind of death, is not something God demands of you before He will take you back and which He could let you off of if He chose: it is simply a description of what going back to Him is like. If you ask God to take you back without it, you are really asking Him to let you go back without going back. It cannot happen. Very well, then, we must go through with it. But the same badness which makes us need it, makes us unable to do it. Can we do it if God helps us? Yes, but what do we mean when we talk of God helping us? We mean God putting into us a bit of Himself, so to speak. He lends us a little of His reasoning powers and that is how we think: He puts a little of His love into us and that is how we love one another. When you teach a child writing, you hold its hand while it forms the letters: that is, it forms the letters because you are forming them. We love and reason because God loves and reasons and holds our hand while we do it. Now if we had not fallen, that would all be plain sailing. But unfortunately we now need God's help in order to do something which God, in His own nature, never does at all - to surrender, to suffer, to submit, to die. Nothing in God's nature corresponds to this process at all. So that the one road for which we now need God's leadership most of all is a road God, in His own nature, has never walked. God can share only what He has: this thing, in His own nature, He has not.

But supposing God became a man - suppose our human nature which can suffer and die was amalgamated with God's nature in one person - then that person could help us. He could surrender His will, and suffer and die, because He was man; and He could do it perfectly because He was God. You and I can go through this process only if God does it in us; but God can do it only if He becomes man. Our attempts at this dying will succeed only if we men share in God's dying, just as our thinking can succeed only because it is a drop out of the ocean of His intelligence: but we cannot share God's dying unless God dies; and he cannot die except by being a man. That is the sense in which He pays our debt, and suffers for us what He Himself need not suffer at all.
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the one thing I don't get is...how can God show us how to repent of our sins if God doesn't sin?

haha this stuff is becoming too deep for even for me now...:wild: I'm sorry if I don't know how to answer things. I'm a "new" Christian since 2007 and oddly enough, this paragraph was one of the reasons that inspired me to believe that God could very well be a Trinity after all...but...I think there's something about it that will always be a mystery. I agree with you though that somehow we have been created with finite knowledge...maybe we're not meant to know everything but at the same time it would be very nice if God could just tell us the answers we need. But I don't know...would it help? Or would we all still be defiant of his answers even if he gave them to us? That's a good question.

anyway I can't believe I ever had the stamina to read AND finish that book LOL. I don't know why I don't have that motivation anymore. I probably didn't use to sit on the computer as much on message boards. :)
 

kinder10

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Of course... Here other Christian.
 

Earth_Song1

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Welcome, Kinder10.
 

MsCassieMollie

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Something I found recently :)
http://reflectionsonthedance.blogspot.com/2011/06/amazing-guestbook-entry-i-encourage-all.html
Amazing Guestbook Entry I Encourage All To Read....
Michaelcryingwithfan.jpg

Below is an entry that showed up late last night on the website guestbook entry. I read this and started to cry. It's a beautiful testament not only to Michael, his strong faith in Jesus Christ, and what kind of person he truly was, by another person who had the blessing of knowing him for 2 years, but it is also one of many, many confirmations I continue to receive about the validity of what is on the website and how accurately it portrays what kind of person Michael was. I take no credit for that, but thank my Heavenly Father, because this is all God's doing. He brought me the right people and the right information because, as all of you know, I never had the blessing to know Michael personally. Praise God for continuing to validate what kind of man Michael was. The truth is getting out there! God will vindicate His child...the truth cannot be hidden.

jbwills Tuesday, 6/28/11, 11:49 PM
I first of all I would like show my appreciation for the time and effort put forth in compiling this website. The world has been exposed to many images of Michael often being harsh and unfair. I personally have had a chance to know Michael over a two year period and I have seen an image of an individual that I wish more people had known. Most have a defined view of such an iconic figure as his media image can't be escaped. When I met him I was facing serious life challenges and transitions, way insecure. It truely was not a time I felt confident to meet such a notable public figure. In my personal struggle I found a graceous,compassiona te,and honoring man. He is a gentle person that loves people. He loves to laugh and his joy, his big huge smile can light up a room. My moments with him over this period of time are filled with life as he belived in living life to its fullest. He forever has touched my heart in deep ways that have impacted my life. The expressions of Michael throughout this site are consistent to the man I knew. His faith is true and he was a humble expression of Christ's love. As he walks in heaven this day his life can give testiment to many things, but i know he'd like most of all to underscore his faith in Jesus Christ. It opens ones eyes to see the impact we have on others, to truely make a difference this is the greatest part of his legacy. He would encorage everyone to reach out and make a difference to make the most of the short years God graceously grants. The world is a bit sadder without his presence but his life still speaks.~

Amen Jb and God Bless You for sharing this.

http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/GuestBook.html
 

dance4life

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

i dont want debate...only i want to say: i believe... a lot.. all time, mind, heart, and wornderful things in my life. that's all..
 

IvoryKeys

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I remember posting in this thread when it started...i think, haha! But I wanted to reinstate that I do believe and trust in Jesus as God.

And it's really really nice to see this thread going on for so long! Love it!

How's everybody doing in here?
 

SheilaMJFan4Ever

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I'm a Christian too, raised primarily Baptist, although I have aunts and uncles that are Jehovah's Witnesses and have attended many Kingdom Hall services with them.
 

Darth Sidious

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I remember posting in this thread when it started...i think, haha! But I wanted to reinstate that I do believe and trust in Jesus as God.

And it's really really nice to see this thread going on for so long! Love it!

How's everybody doing in here?

great, youre back. i'm doin okay.

lets keep this thread goin.
 

Holly Rock

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Hello, I am new to this board and am also a Born Again Christian. I believe that Jesus is Lord and is soon to come. I believe in the Rapture, the saving power of the Blood and that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. I believe in speaking in Tongues, the laying on of hands, paying tithes, healing and alot more. I'm so glad to have found your thread because frankly, I have'nt gotten much support from my fellow christians about Michael's death but am looking forward to sharing thoughts and feelings about him with you within the context of the Word. God bless you richly.
 

xthunderx2

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Hey Holly Rock welcome to MJJC so happy to have you here. It is truly wonderful to have another fellow Christian here on the board. God is good..Bless you my friend. John 3:16
 

IvoryKeys

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Must admit, i'm very jealous of your name, Holly Rock. Very creative!
 

Darth Sidious

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Hello, I am new to this board and am also a Born Again Christian. I believe that Jesus is Lord and is soon to come. I believe in the Rapture, the saving power of the Blood and that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. I believe in speaking in Tongues, the laying on of hands, paying tithes, healing and alot more. I'm so glad to have found your thread because frankly, I have'nt gotten much support from my fellow christians about Michael's death but am looking forward to sharing thoughts and feelings about him with you within the context of the Word. God bless you richly.

weclome! but i'm not sure about the whole rapture thing.
 

Rudolf

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I believe in God. That's all I can say. I'm not so smart for Bible debates.
 

coolcat75

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I also believe in jesus. He's even better than MJ!
 

Victory22

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I'm good. God bless everyone. I think we will all need to come here a lot more now that the Murray trial is about to start.
 

Evilman

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I'm fine too. Just a little bit tired (again). :D

God bless you all! :)
 
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No-Body

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Hello folks, some of you might remember me from back in the day when i was the 'artist' formely known as Shabuya. Well, she is gone and i ain't here to replace her, just to jump in with a few confessions cause we are family, some pics of where i've been this year and maybe a song or two, basically the usual scroll, more or less.....Ready everyone?

On May 1[SUP]st[/SUP] i had the privilege to be one among the 1.5 million pilgrims who attended the beatification ceremony of Pope John Paul II in Rome. Words cannnot describe the joy i felt and the magnificence of the moment. It truly felt as though for a few precious hours heaven and earth were coming together. I'm hoping to return to Rome very soon. It is and will remain my favorite city in the world.

 
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qbee

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)


up-Michael_Jackson_Case_Continues_6j0mjIcgFLNlLG.jpg


Lord, make me an instrument of your peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
when there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
Grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand,
to be loved as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

Amen !


 

MJnVA

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Saint Luke 5:12-16 (9/27-10/10) Tuesday of the Nineteenth Week after Pentecost

God The Approachable: Saint Luke 5:12-16, especially vs. 12, “...behold, a man who was full of leprosy saw Jesus; and he fell on his face and implored Him saying, ‘Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.’” In the actions of the leprous man described in today’s Gospel, we can hear echoes within our hearts of a deep desire to come before God, fall down, and seek the blessing of His cleansing. Notice the three distinct actions in the leper’s approach to the Lord Jesus: first, he caught sight of Christ. Second, he fell down on his face - prostrated himself - before Him. Third, when fully bowed, the leprous man cried out for help, begging for healing.
One must ‘see’ Christ before he can approach Him. Hence, to act like the man with leprosy requires a spiritual sight necessarily greater than physical vision. For long ages, God has revealed that without the Light of Christ, mankind walks in serious moral and spiritual darkness - His judgment having departed from them: “While they waited for light, darkness came upon them; and while they waited for the dawn, they walked in darkness. They groped around for a wall like blind men...They shall fall at midday as though it were midnight...” (Is. 59:9,10).
Spiritual darkness descends when we turn away from Christ Who is the Light of the world, and when, instead, we follow dark, human reasoning and the bidding of our passions (Jn. 8:12; Rom. 1:21). The leper not only fell down before the Lord because of genuine need, but also because of inner illumination. No doubt his insight was stirred because of reports circulating in Galilee concerning the Lord; thus, his inward eye ‘saw’ more than an individual named Jesus.
In the exorcisms before Holy Baptism, the Priest prays for the candidate: “Open the eyes of his understanding, that the light of Thy Gospel may shine brightly in him.” The leper perceived God Incarnate in Jesus, a ‘sight’ that impelled him to beg for healing. “...behold, a man who was full of leprosy ‘saw’ Jesus...” (vs. 12). Saint Luke encourages us to behold the Lord so that we may approach Him. Pray for God’s gift of illumination that you may ‘see’ the Lord, the Good News of your life, and that you may approach Him with your needs.
When the leper saw, he fell on his face. Once we see the Lord, prostration is natural. God designed us to worship Him. Prostration before the Lord our God is right, healthy, and a genuine sign that healing already has begun in the heart. The desire to fall down demonstrates that before the thought to approach God, He notices our disease, sin, sickness - and awakens us.
In the first century, rigorous physical and social barriers were maintained forcefully between ‘normal’ human society and those infected with leprosy (Lv. 13:45,46), yet the compassionate Lord our God “...put out His hand and touched him...” (Lk. 5:13). God ever draws us to Himself, whether our leprosy is physical, social, moral, or spiritual. To catch sight of Christ illumines the rot and uncleanness in ourselves, and we know, at least, that we are essential lepers before our All-Holy Lord. “O come, let us worship and fall down before Christ!”
Watch during the Divine Liturgy and you will see acts of reverence before our Holy God being modeled for us in the gestures of those who serve the Priests in the Altar. In fact, the Altar Servers bow and humble themselves around the Throne and kiss the Priest’s hands exactly because, during the Liturgy, the clergy function as living icons of Christ among us.
Last of all, the man cried out. His plea echoes clearly in the Orthros psalms, urging us to approach our compassionate God, to fall down before Him and cry out from our pain:
I cried unto the Lord with my voice” (Ps. 3:4). “O Lord, before Thee is all my desire, and my groaning is not hid from Thee” (Ps. 37:9). “Quickly hear me, O Lord; my spirit hath fainted away....Cause me to hear Thy mercy in the morning” (Ps. 142:7,9).




Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner.
 
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No-Body

Guest
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Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem. Amen

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Glória Patri
et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper
et in sæ´cula sæculórum. Amen.

Pater noster, qui es in cælis,
sanctificetur nomen tuum;
adveniat regnum tuum;
fiat voluntas tua,
sicut in caelo et in terra.
Panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie,
et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris;
et ne nos inducas in tentationem
Sed libera
nos a malo.

AMEN
 
N

No-Body

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

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On Sunday April 24th 1994, Pope John Paul II recommended this prayer be used by all Catholics as a prayer for the Church when he said:

'"May prayer strengthen us for the spiritual battle we are told about in the Letter to the Ephesians: 'Draw strength from the Lord and from His mighty power' (Ephesians 6:10). The Book of Revelation refers to this same battle, recalling before our eyes the image of St. Michael the Archangel (Revelation 12:7). Pope Leo XIII certainly had a very vivid recollection of this scene when, at the end of the last century, he introduced a special prayer to St. Michael throughout the Church. Although this prayer is no longer recited at the end of Mass, I ask everyone not to forget it and to recite it to obtain help in the battle against forces of darkness and against the spirit of this world."'


Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen.

 

MsCassieMollie

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Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I was on Yolanda Adams FB page and she posted a picture of her rehearsing for the MJ Forever Tribute Concert and people were judging her because she was singing "worldly music'. Some people even had the nerve to say Michael didn't know God and worshiped Lucifer? I can't stand some Christians.
 
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