Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

This might be a newbie question but do Robson/Safechuck have ongoing lawsuits against the estate?
Thanks
Yes. Court appeal this summer. That is the motive for this trash doc. They lost 2 already but need this boost to try to win.
 

Laurendaccio

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

yes . Their case case was thrown out of court , but they appealed .
 

Soundmind

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AliCat;4244304 said:
Dan Reed keeps selling his doco with "it isn't about Michael Jackson, it is about grooming."

Grooming Dynamic

Perpetrators of child sexual abuse (CSA) may gain the trust of potential child victims and their caregivers by methodically “grooming” them. This process begins with identifying potential victims, gaining their trust, and breaking down their defenses. These grooming tactics are often directed at potential youth victims as well as the adult caregivers—parents, other youth-serving professionals, and the community-at-large. After gaining access to children and youth by achieving this trust, the perpetrator initiates some kind of contact that s/he finds sexually gratifying. This sexual contact may range from voyeurism to rape and other forms of child sexual abuse. Grooming helps the offender gain access to the victim, and sets up a relationship grounded in secrecy so that the crime is less likely to be discovered.

Perpetrators of child sexual abuse are often individuals known to the family; they may be acquaintances, influential members of the community, trusted friends and even family members. Sometimes the offender is known to the family through association with an organization or activity in which the child or youth participates, such as school, a community club, sports team, recreation center or camp.

One reason that the perpetrator is able to exploit the child is because he or she holds the power in the relationship based on age and experience, size and strength, and adult status. A perpetrator may manipulate and use those power differences to gain the youth’s trust and confidence, and/or to create fear that enables the perpetrator to coerce the child or youth. (Note that this is not common in all cases of CSA; in many scenarios, there is NO trust at all, only coercion and fear.)

Grooming steps include:

-Identifying and targeting the victim.
Any child or teen may be a potential victim. Some predators may be attracted to children and youth with certain characteristics or may target youth with certain co-existing factors—such as vulnerable parents—to facilitate the crime.

-Gaining trust and access.
The perpetrator may observe the child and assesses his/her vulnerabilities to learn how best to approach and interact with the child. Perpetrators may offer the victims special attention, understanding and a sympathetic ear, and then engage the child in ways that eventually gain their friendship and trust (they may play games with victims or give them rides, provide them with gifts and/or special treats).

-Playing a role in the child’s life.
The perpetrator may manipulate the relationship so that it appears he or she is the only one who fully understands the child or meets the child’s needs in a particular way. A perpetrator may also exploit a youth’s empathy and convince the young person that s/he is the only one who understands the perpetrator and reinforce that the perpetrator “needs” the child or youth.

-Isolating the child.
Offering the child rides and/or taking the child out of his or her surroundings is one way that the perpetrator may separate the child from others and gain access to the child alone, so that others cannot witness the abuse. (Note that in other instances, perpetrators have been successful in molesting victims without detection while other adults were in the room.)

-Creating secrecy around the relationship.
The perpetrator may reinforce the special connection with the victim when they are alone or through private communication with the victim (such as letters, emails or text messages), and strengthen it with admonitions against telling anyone, lest others be unhappy about it. The perpetrator may threaten the victim with disclosure, suicide, physical harm to the child or loved ones, or other traumas if he or she tells.

-Initiating sexual contact.
With the power over the child victim established through emotional connection coercion or one of the other tactics, the perpetrator may eventually initiate physical contact with the victim. It may begin with touching that is not overtly sexual (though a predator may find it sexually gratifying) and that may appear to be casual (arm around the shoulder, pat on the knee, etc.). Gradually, the perpetrator may introduce more sexualized touching. By breaking down inhibitions and desensitizing the child, the perpetrator can begin overtly touching the child.

-Controlling the relationship.
Perpetrators rely on the secrecy of the relationship to keep it going, and to ensure that the child will not reveal the abuse. Children are often afraid of disclosing the abuse. They may have been told that they will not be believed, or that something about the child “makes” the abuser do this to them. The child may also feel shame, or fear that they will be blamed. Often, the perpetrator threatens the child to ensure that s/he won’t disclose the abuse.

http://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/grooming-dynamic-of-csa

Michael Jackson may have shared his home, his bed, his amusement park, his train, his theater with less fortunate children, whether financially or physically. But it was to be an Inspiration, not to take advantage of them. Jimmy and Wade came from poorer families. It seems the greed bug has bit them hard. Are they trying to groom us?!


They have included all of the above in their stories and used MJ's generosity against him.
 

Scream

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Watching these guys get interviewed, they are terrible. So unconvincing.
They're lucky the documentary itself is glossy and well made enough to make them seem plausible, because based on the interviews they don't appear in any way credible. Twitchy, nervous, always looking at the floor. A body language expert would have a field day with their deception.
 

Soundmind

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Yes. Court appeal this summer. That is the motive for this trash doc. They lost 2 already but need this boost to try to win.

They have zero chance of winning their appeals. No matter how many times they deny they have been paid by HBO I don't believe this for a minute. HBO must have taken care of them financially by some means but they will never admit to that because HBO has an interest in presenting them as credible as possible. The appeals are ongoing because they still have not lost hope that the estate would settle with them. They are now counting on a public outcry against MJ and/or more so called victims to come forward so the estate is shamed enough and pressured to give them money.
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

They have zero chance of winning their appeals. No matter how many times they deny they have been paid by HBO I don't believe this for a minute. HBO must have taken care of them financially by some means but they will never admit to that because HBO has an interest in presenting them as credible as possible. The appeals are ongoing because they still have not lost hope that the estate would settle with them. They are now counting on a public outcry against MJ and/or more so called victims to come forward so the estate is shamed enough and pressured to give them money.
I agree. that is why they are going around do all of this promotion. That is telling of itself. but the Estate bet not ever settle with this clowns. That will be worst. I wish MJ never settled with the Chandlers although I understand.
 

Soundmind

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Watching these guys get interviewed, they are terrible. So unconvincing.
They're lucky the documentary itself is glossy and well made enough to make them seem plausible, because based on the interviews they don't appear in any way credible. Twitchy, nervous, always looking at the floor. A body language expert would have a field day with their deception.

Absolutely terrible performance by both of them. Wade is very unemotional. He is cold as a stone he tries so hard to look sad but he is so full of himself, so arrogant, very unlikable person, he is so gross actually. I swear to God when he showed up to testify for MJ in 2005, I got all negative vibes from him. I have never liked him. His eyes, the emptiness in his eyes. The sociopath eyes are all I could see in him even back then. I knew he would flip once the money dries. I knew it. He does not laugh, he always smirks. Even as a child, those empty soulless eyes were there. How MJ could not see it? He was a very emotional person and terrible at judging people.
 

analogue

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Absolutely terrible performance by both of them. Wade is very unemotional. He is cold as a stone he tries so hard to look sad but he is so full of himself, so arrogant, very unlikable person, he is so gross actually. I swear to God when he showed up to testify for MJ in 2005, I got all negative vibes from him. I have never liked him. His eyes, the emptiness in his eyes. The sociopath eyes are all I could see in him even back then. I knew he would flip once the money dries. I knew it. He does not laugh, he always smirks. Even as a child, those empty soulless eyes were there. How MJ could not see it? He was a very emotional person and terrible at judging people.

Typical narcissist
 

Laurendaccio

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

They have zero chance of winning their appeals. No matter how many times they deny they have been paid by HBO I don't believe this for a minute. HBO must have taken care of them financially by some means but they will never admit to that because HBO has an interest in presenting them as credible as possible. The appeals are ongoing because they still have not lost hope that the estate would settle with them. They are now counting on a public outcry against MJ and/or more so called victims to come forward so the estate is shamed enough and pressured to give them money.

General Judges hate that when people on ongoing lawsuits run to the media to influence their decision .
 

Soundmind

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

General Judges hate that when people on ongoing lawsuits run to the media to influence their decision .

They have made too many statements in the past few weeks and in the documentary itself which contradict what they had claimed in their court filings. That alone should tell us their lawyers know very well they have a zero chance in a successful appeal otherwise they would not have allowed them to do the media rounds. The ultimate goal is to benefit financially. They were not successful using the court route so they went the media route. They will milk it for what it is as long as they have an audience and it is ridiculous to believe they are not being paid for what they are doing. David Geffen alone will never let them down.
 
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Annita

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I agree. that is why they are going around do all of this promotion. That is telling of itself. but the Estate bet not ever settle with this clowns. That will be worst. I wish MJ never settled with the Chandlers although I understand.

Why should they settle. They allready lost their lawsuits and loosing their appeals is onyl a formal thing.
They allready know there is no chance to get money from the Estate, so now they hope to get it with their media-trips, book-deals and so on.
 

elusive moonwalker

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Why did the BBC and police cover it up?
--------------------

Because saville was seen as a god like figure. A national treasure.he had been a DJ on radio one in the 60's became a t v presenter.was close friends with princess diana amongst other royals. Was lorded for his charity work.raising money for hospitals etc. He had alot of friends in very high places royals goverment.long before he died there were claims and police wanting to investigate but it was shut down by those higher up along with those who ran the BBC.when he died there was a docu. Mainly claims by old women. (He used to do charity work in hospitals and was allowed to go literally anywhere because of who he was.) then literally 300 plus people came out.some prob jumping on the bandwagon but that stilk leaves alot. the bbc ended up paying out compensation for the cover up
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Uh.

You guys remember the story Wade told about having a BBQ with Michael in Vegas in 2008?

Yeah. Apparently that didn't happen.

All he can do is lie, Jesus christ. Wouldn't surprise me if he told Safechuck some lies about money to hook him in. Don't get me wrong, that's no excuse for Safechuck to just join him and do this but that's probably how it happened.

I'm just baffled by how this could have gotten so far. I mean he didn't manage to find any publishers for that book, so why was HBO so eager to pick this up? Apparently they used to be a respected documentary division.

If this isn't gonna backfire, and people actually fall for this tomorrow (that's when it airs, right?) i just don't know what's wrong with this world anymore but it's a lot.
 

Soundmind

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Why did the BBC and police cover it up?
--------------------

Because saville was seen as a god like figure. A national treasure.he had been a DJ on radio one in the 60's became a t v presenter.was close friends with princess diana amongst other royals. Was lorded for his charity work.raising money for hospitals etc. He had alot of friends in very high places royals goverment.long before he died there were claims and police wanting to investigate but it was shut down by those higher up along with those who ran the BBC.when he died there was a docu. Mainly claims by old women. (He used to do charity work in hospitals and was allowed to go literally anywhere because of who he was.) then literally 300 plus people came out.some prob jumping on the bandwagon but that stilk leaves alot. the bbc ended up paying out compensation for the cover up

No one who knew protected him because he was a national treasure. He was protected because they themselves were perverts and did not want another pervert to be exposed.
 

G-B_24

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Stated looking around about MJFacts

Says it is owned by this

Go China Domains, LLC
14455 North Hayden Road
Suite 219
Scottsdale AZ 85260
United States
1-480-505-8800
icann@gochinadomains.com
 

AlwaysThere

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Stated looking around about MJFacts

Says it is owned by this

Go China Domains, LLC
14455 North Hayden Road
Suite 219
Scottsdale AZ 85260
United States
1-480-505-8800
icann@gochinadomains.com

Seems to be a domain registration website. They aren't the owners/authors.
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

No one who knew protected him because he was a national treasure. He was protected because they themselves were perverts and did not want another pervert to be exposed.
Well Michael was not given that. MJ was jumped on and the press and no one let up. That is the difference in black defendants compare to white defendants as well. Blacks are often looked at as guilty when accused whereas whites are not. I still believe Dan Reed is a closet pervert.
 

KOPV

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G-B_24;4244342 said:
Stated looking around about MJFacts

Says it is owned by this

Go China Domains, LLC
14455 North Hayden Road
Suite 219
Scottsdale AZ 85260
United States
1-480-505-8800
icann@gochinadomains.com


That address is 35 minutes from my house!!!!!!!!!




PS. for those who have HBO and plan to watch it, IDK the rules on here about sharing media but... um! … what are the rules? I know there are rules around sharing MJ material.
 

analogue

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Message for all the fans

Wear your MJ T.shirts with pride, proudly blast his music and keep showing him all the love. Never let anyone make you feel ashamed of your support for him
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Message for all the fans

Wear your MJ T.shirts with pride, proudly blast his music and keep showing him all the love. Never let anyone make you feel ashamed of your support for him
You know I have never had a problem like that from no where even in 2005.
 

Soundmind

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I have just come across a tweet by someone who attended Oprah's show who said she found the accusers credibility to be questionable. From her profile she seems opinionated and has addressed many stories in the news but not single post about MJ which is great. This is a member of the public who was not swayed. God please have MJ's back.
 

terrell

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I have just come across a tweet by someone who attended Oprah's show who said she found the accusers credibility to be questionable. From her profile she seems opinionated and has addressed many stories in the news but not single post about MJ which is great. This is a member of the public who was not swayed. God please have MJ's back.

God will. And Oprah is going to get backlash especially from her black audience. What many Africans Americans do not like it if u are talking to someone who defended MJ for years and now clearly looking for money and changing your story. Some already think this is another method in trying to take down another black celeb and she does this? Many blacks are already untrustworthy of the system.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Someone wanted to know if wades victimfund and the twitteraccount uses the same backround?


Definitly!

I am wating for the moment, he ask over his twitteraccount for donations.

As far as I could see parts of his interviews he gave this week, he calls out other victims and witnesses there too.
He said the reason why he is doing this is to give other MJ victims the chance to come forward and speak out.

But insted of stoping here he calls out defenders from MJ together with accusers to question their credibilty for the public.
He tryes to make the public belive that MJ manipulated and trained the defenders too as MJ did it to him.
 
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CherubimII

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There are some really powerful people behind this hit job. Let's not forget how much of the PR campaign got its genesis:

Oprah Celebrated Her 65th Birthday With a St. Barths Getaway on David Geffen’s Yacht
https://observer.com/2019/01/oprah-birthday-celebration-david-geffen-yacht-st-barths-rising-sun/


By y Morgan Halberg •
<time itemprop="datePublished" datetime="2019-01-31" style="box-sizing: border-box;">01/31/19 2:24pm</time>

The true icon that is Oprah turned 65 this week, and she celebrated the occasion at one of her most favorite places: David Geffen&#8217;s 454-foot yacht, Rising Sun.


Geffen has hosted many famous faces on the Rising Sun over the years, including Julia Roberts, Leonardo DiCaprio and frequent guest Karlie Kloss, and it&#8217;s all been kindly documented on Geffen&#8217;s Instagram. And, of course, we&#8217;ll never forget that time Barack Obama became a true Instagram Husband aboard the yacht in Tahiti while snapping Michelle Obama posing on the deck.

But Oprah is one of Geffen&#8217;s most treasured guests, so it only makes sense that she&#8217;d ring in the big 6-5 on the yacht, along with her pal Gayle King and King&#8217;s son. The brief three-night Caribbean getaway started on Monday, when the crew flew into St. Martin and headed for the Rising Sun. They then glided over to St. Barths, where they docked in Gustavia for three nights.

It was a low-key fete&#8212;just a couple of billionaires and friends aboard a multimillion-dollar yacht, with red wine and cake and an enviable St. Barths background. King documented the celebration and posted an Instagram slideshow for her best friend&#8217;s big day, including a photo of Oprah blowing out a single candle on a white frosted cake that she captioned, &#8220;Happy birthday DEAR @oprah who did NOT want a bd cake so I requested the kind I like! It was delish perfect for the birthday girl.&#8221; Now we all know what to get Gayle for her next birthday.

The group did not go ashore for the festivities, or at least they didn&#8217;t document it that night. Instead, they watched the Leaving Neverland documentary, as King informed her Instagram followers. They returned to St. Martin to jet home yesterday.
<main id="main" class="site-main" role="main" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px;"><article class="post-1162360 post type-post status-publish format-standard has-post-thumbnail tag-birthdays tag-caribbean tag-celebrity-travel tag-gustavia tag-instagram tag-luxury-travel tag-oprah tag-rising-sun tag-st-barthelemy tag-st-barths tag-st-martin tag-travel tag-yachts channel-celebrity channel-lifestyle channel-travel location-international location-st-bart location-british-virgin-islands nyo_person-oprah nyo_person-oprah-winfrey nyo_person-david-geffen nyo_person-gayle-king nyo_person-barack-obama nyo_person-michelle-obama nyo_person-karlie-kloss" data-post="1162360" data-title="Oprah Celebrated Her 65th Birthday With a St. Barths Getaway on David Geffen&#8217;s Yacht" data-url="https://observer.com/2019/01/oprah-birthday-celebration-david-geffen-yacht-st-barths-rising-sun/" data-page-url="/2019/01/oprah-birthday-celebration-david-geffen-yacht-st-barths-rising-sun/" data-date="2019-01-31 14:24:41" data-date-iso="2019-01-31T14:24:41-05:00" data-author="Morgan Halberg" data-coauthors="Morgan Halberg" data-channels="Celebrity, Lifestyle, Travel" data-piped-channels="Celebrity|Lifestyle|Travel" style="box-sizing: border-box;">


</article>
<article class="post-1162360 post type-post status-publish format-standard has-post-thumbnail tag-birthdays tag-caribbean tag-celebrity-travel tag-gustavia tag-instagram tag-luxury-travel tag-oprah tag-rising-sun tag-st-barthelemy tag-st-barths tag-st-martin tag-travel tag-yachts channel-celebrity channel-lifestyle channel-travel location-international location-st-bart location-british-virgin-islands nyo_person-oprah nyo_person-oprah-winfrey nyo_person-david-geffen nyo_person-gayle-king nyo_person-barack-obama nyo_person-michelle-obama nyo_person-karlie-kloss" data-post="1162360" data-title="Oprah Celebrated Her 65th Birthday With a St. Barths Getaway on David Geffen&#8217;s Yacht" data-url="https://observer.com/2019/01/oprah-birthday-celebration-david-geffen-yacht-st-barths-rising-sun/" data-page-url="/2019/01/oprah-birthday-celebration-david-geffen-yacht-st-barths-rising-sun/" data-date="2019-01-31 14:24:41" data-date-iso="2019-01-31T14:24:41-05:00" data-author="Morgan Halberg" data-coauthors="Morgan Halberg" data-channels="Celebrity, Lifestyle, Travel" data-piped-channels="Celebrity|Lifestyle|Travel" style="box-sizing: border-box;"></article><article id="post-1162360" class="post-1162360 post type-post status-publish format-standard has-post-thumbnail tag-birthdays tag-caribbean tag-celebrity-travel tag-gustavia tag-instagram tag-luxury-travel tag-oprah tag-rising-sun tag-st-barthelemy tag-st-barths tag-st-martin tag-travel tag-yachts channel-celebrity channel-lifestyle channel-travel location-international location-st-bart location-british-virgin-islands nyo_person-oprah nyo_person-oprah-winfrey nyo_person-david-geffen nyo_person-gayle-king nyo_person-barack-obama nyo_person-michelle-obama nyo_person-karlie-kloss" data-post="1162360" data-title="Oprah Celebrated Her 65th Birthday With a St. Barths Getaway on David Geffen&#8217;s Yacht" data-url="https://observer.com/2019/01/oprah-birthday-celebration-david-geffen-yacht-st-barths-rising-sun/" data-page-url="/2019/01/oprah-birthday-celebration-david-geffen-yacht-st-barths-rising-sun/" data-date="2019-01-31 14:24:41" data-date-iso="2019-01-31T14:24:41-05:00" data-author="Morgan Halberg" data-coauthors="Morgan Halberg" data-channels="Celebrity, Lifestyle, Travel" data-piped-channels="Celebrity|Lifestyle|Travel" style="box-sizing: border-box;"></article>
</main>

 
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ksat9

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I’m new to this site, but because of this mockumentary I needed somewhere to vent with the rest of the MJ fans.
My emotions have been a complete roller coaster these past few weeks.
Regardless of what happens I will state this, I will NEVER have faith and trust in the media ever again.
They weren’t even reporting the cases when it happened yet they have all jumped at the chance to report on this nonsense.
The fact that so many “journalists” have refused to fact check and are actively spreading the lies of people like Maureen Orth disgusts me.
Those three stooges have literally contradicted their stories and have exposed their lies so many times that if any reputable journalist has the guts they could expose them.
It may be ugly next week and it may be ugly throughout March, but I feel deep in my heart that the truth when it comes to those two will come out.
 

mjawb2009

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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Does anybody know their appeal date over the summer?
 

Amaya

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Paris78;4244210 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On Fox News at 8pm <a href="https://twitter.com/Geraldo?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Geraldo</a> and a few others were defending <a href="https://twitter.com/michaeljackson?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MichaelJackson</a> they think the two boys are just out for the money! They are so right. Thanks Fox News for airing that! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Geraldo?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Geraldo</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LeavingNeverland?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LeavingNeverland</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MichaelJackson?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MichaelJackson</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FoxNews?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FoxNews</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WadeRobson?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WadeRobson</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HBO?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#HBO</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Hollywood?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Hollywood</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BREAKING?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BREAKING</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/defendmj?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#defendmj</a></p>— Darcee Bradshaw (@darcee_bradshaw) <a href="https://twitter.com/darcee_bradshaw/status/1101650968918310912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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Fox News being objective? What new spore of madness is this?! =P
Seriously though, points to them for actually questioning this.

fraroc04;4244270 said:
MJFacts has been around since at least 2012, before any of the new allegations took place. I remember because I tried to find sources for an essay I was writing for my Public Policy/Civil Law class. I chose the Michael Jackson 2005 case, and I thought that a website called MJFacts was created by fans which was going to showcase all the evidence that proved he was innocent, all the court documents, the fact that no evidence was found during the Neverland raid, the fact that Tom Sneddon attempted to make phony evidence by making Gavin put his fingerprints on a playboy magazine (which is on record, not hearsay)

I took one look, and all I saw was tabloid bullshit.

MJFacts was around as early as 2010, and it was called "***** Facts" at the time according to the screencaps here: http://allforloveblog.com/?p=9426

Definitely a very sneaky site, trying to disguise itself as a legit MJ site. One has to wonder who the hell is running it. I know someone has said it was Stacy Brown but there's been no 100% confirmation, although it wouldn't surprise me.
 

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Oprah Winfrey loses $58 million on Weight Watchers investment as stock plunges



Nathan Bomey, USA TODAYPublished 9:50 a.m. ET Feb. 27, 2019 | Updated 4:16 p.m. ET Feb. 27, 2019
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...-weight-watchers-international-ww/3002180002/

Concerns about a slowdown in membership growth for Weight Watchers International delivered a huge blow to Oprah Winfrey's investment in the dieting and wellness company.
Winfrey, who owns about 8 percent of Weight Watchers, lost nearly $58 million on paper Wednesday morning as the company's stock plunged.
Weight Watchers shares fell 36.1 percent in early trading Wednesday to $18.90 after the company reported Tuesday that it was "disappointed with our start to 2019." The beginning of the year is the most crucial time for healthy living ventures.
The company rebranded as WW in 2018 with Winfrey's blessing, aiming to ride a wave of interest in wellness and natural ingredients. But the pivot away from a clear focus on weight loss may be sputtering.


But WW CEO Mindy Grossman said in a statement that the company has had "a soft start to 2019 versus last year&#8217;s strong performance" since its early-year recruitment period did not go well.
To regain momentum, Winfrey has personally agreed to "play a central role in our upcoming TV and digital marketing campaign," Grossman said.


Winfrey first invested in Weight Watchers in 2015, acquiring 10 percent of the company for $6.79 per share.
While her shares remain nearly three times their original value at the time she invested, the stock is off 82 percent from its 52-week high of $105.73. Winfrey offloaded some shares in March for a range of $58.29 to $63.94, booking a healthy profit.
For Weight Watchers, the disappointing performance could draw "significant investor pushback and possible activist pressure," CFRA Research stock analyst Garrett Nelson wrote Wednesday.
Follow USA TODAY reporter Nathan Bomey on Twitter @NathanBomey.
 
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