Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

DDam

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Sharing your bed with kids who aren't related to you as a grown man is weird and trying to defend it is pointless. I don't care what Michael said, he should've known better, especially how it would appear to outsiders.
I don't believe for one second that he had any sexual motive behind it, but he still shouldn't have done it.

Of course I agree.

But there was also confusion whether he did share the bed or not. I don't know. If he did, of course I agree with you.
 

AG5050

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Cinnamon234;4246495 said:
Why do some of you keep stating that "even if it happened once it's wrong". Yeah I mean that's pretty much stating the obvious.

Do some of you really believe that those of us supporting Michael would be willing to overlook him sexually abusing a kid "only" one time? Insulting to say the least. And that's not how pedos operate anyway.

Do I think the sleepovers were wrong? Yes. I don't like to see pics and video of MJ holding hands with these kids either because of how it looks now after these allegations. It just gives people more to talk about and add more fuel to the fire.


Ultimately, I just don't believe he was in touch with reality. He was stubborn. He didn't listen when the likes of Frank Dileo warned him that one day he'd be accused of something.

I don't believe he was guilty however. He was trying to relive the childhood he always wanted to have imo.

I just wish none of this happened. Now he has left behind a mess for his family, estate and fans to deal with thanks to poor judgment and stubbornness on his part.

What's done is done though and I'm not gonna fall for the bs those two are trying to sell. This is all being done in hopes they can win their appeal against the estate.
This articlautes how I feel perfectly. I get so sick of being accused of trying to justify all of Michaels behaviour and his relationships with children whenever I argue his innocence. I don’t, I just believe there are other reasons as to why he was the way he was. But he should have known better and he really did open himself up to accusations and surrounded himself with opportunists. Those two things together was inevitably going to lead to multiple accusations.
 

AlwaysThere

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Wade wrote a book and found no publisher when he came out with the alligations? Do we have the book? Or didnt he even start writing it...?

The book exists. There's at least one draft, which we don't have.

Well read what Safechuck's dad said in the extract you posted. That's his freakin dad. And there's worse to worry about, no-one will even care or notice about a kiss on the lips when it is waaaay down the list of seriousness when it comes to the explicit and shocking allegations in this film. I never even knew James testified anything. From the 90s? What was all this from? Jordan Chandler stuff? did he say anything else? Any of the explicit stuff mentioned in this film?

But this isn't a baseless claim made thirty years too late in a one-sided documentary; this is a legal court document in which a Californian District Attorney states, "Your son told a federal investigator that he and Michael Jackson kissed one another on the lips." No matter how Safechuck's dad felt about it, this is the closest to actual evidence they've ever come up with.

Safechuck was one of the many children interviewed in 1993. He denied ever being molested.
 

DangerUs'91

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Is anyone else feeling like...this isn't going as bad as we thought it would?

I mean last week, I felt like the sky was falling as a Jackson fan. Now, I feel pretty...not bad, actually. I feel better now than I did last week.
 

Scream

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Of course I agree.

But there was also confusion whether he did share the bed or not. I don't know. If he did, of course I agree with you.
Yeah this is a point of contention. Macauley always maintained that it was just in his room which was the size of a house.
 

magic

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Michael said he gave bed to his guests and always sleeping either on the floor or couch.
 

AlwaysThere

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We really shouldn't be doubting fans for expressing their doubts.

We also shouldn't be doubting fans for fairly judging Jackson's actions.

Seriously? Is that where we are right now?
 

Cinnamon234

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"Jackson's actions"? Oh is that how we're referring to Michael now, as "Jackson"? Interesting.

I'm all for looking at both sides but seems some of you are only interested in the accusers side.
 
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Zeus7

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We really shouldn't be doubting fans for expressing their doubts.

We also shouldn't be doubting fans for fairly judging Jackson's actions.

Seriously? Is that where we are right now?

No but we do need a safe place after the past month
 

L.T.D

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No but we do need
a safe place after the past month

I agree, theres enough negativity out there without having to come to his own forum and have to deal with it here as well.

I myself feel a little angry towards him at the moment, the questions about people saying its not normal for him to sleep in the bed with a child are really hard to deal with, but that's nothing new.....people act like it is though.

This was public knowledge when everyone celebrated him when he died in 2009.

I've literally been arguing with people none stop for about 4 days now, I feel it's my duty. But at the same time I'm angry that I'm put in a position where I have to defend these things.

It's been on in America, part 1 in the UK has been on....part 2 shouldn't have as much attention....I'll defend him all the next day and then I'm disappearing for a week.
 

Glanni

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here is the full video of the interiew from bbc with robson, safechuck and greed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07299d6

the host read the full statement of the jacksons to them. its weird because the answers seem to be prerecorded or something. they have a weird cut between the reaction of the 3 guys, too. do you know what i mean?

can someone download the video? id like to upload it to my youtube channel but dont know how to get the video.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9uhlJ3D69_ygFPaEeOskAg
 

WildStyle

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We need to be really accurate in our defense of Michael. From his first complaint, it is not true that Safechuck says Michael cut ties with him after puberty. What he says is that Michael stopped abusing him after puberty. He mentions seeing Michael again and working for him in the mid 90's for the HIStory trailer and Earth Song video.
 

Scream

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More than anything, I'm just sick of hearing about it at this point, positive or negative.
It seems like you can't escape it right now.

I'm sure hoping for it to blow over in a week is wishful thinking on my part, but man, It can't come soon enough. I'm just drained.
 

somewhereinthedark

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DDam;4246498 said:
Of course I agree.

But there was also confusion whether he did share the bed or not. I don't know. If he did, of course I agree with you.

It seems that everyone, even fans, are CONVENIENTLY forgetting that Michael stated that he would “share” give his bed to children and some parents, and he would sleep ON THE floor. Of course, these same people continually lie and say that only boys were in his bedroom SUITE. A suite with two levels, two beds and 2-3 bathrooms. The media wants to act as if his was some regular bedroom and not a bedroom/gameroom suite. That’s how the media has brainwashed a gullible and weak-minded public. I would think MJ fans would be smarter than that; however, it seems as if SOME fans are calling for the bull rap that the media perpetuated overv30 years. ago.Really, all it takes is common sense to figure the lies out. However, some are even too lazy and unwilling to do that. How sad!!

I am going to remind the doubters again, there were children(GIRLS and boys) who asked to go into Michael’s bedroom/gameroom suite, He always told them they had to get their parents permission first. Some of you fans are acting as if he FORCED these children into his suite. Remember, these are FAMILIES that Michael trusted and knew. If you know you are not a perverted sex fiend, why would you mind if CHILDREN come into your suite.

Every time, Safechuck and Robson were at Neverland, a parent was with them. I am so disgusted some fans who use the EXCUSE of Michael allowing children, not just boys, into his bedroom/game room suite, as some validation of sexual abuse. What the doubting fans need to be focused on is the FaCT that what these extortionists are spewing has no basis in reality. The graphic fantasies that these two are spewing are so easily refuted.
 

L.T.D

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More than anything, I'm just sick of hearing about it at this point, positive or negative.
It seems like you can't escape it right now.

I'm sure hoping for it to blow over in a week is wishful thinking on my part, but man, It can't come soon enough. I'm just drained.

I cant even see it being talked about by the end of the weekend, not in the US or UK anyway.
 

Scream

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I cant even see it being talked about by the end of the weekend, not in the US or UK anyway.
I hope you're right.
It's my own fault and I should just walk away, but I can't stand to see people slandering him. That's our burden to bear for life I guess.
 

L.T.D

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I hope you're right.
It's my own fault and I should just walk away, but I can't stand to see people slandering him. That's our burden to bear for life I guess.

I'm the same, I've been up till 4am last night and tonight because I just cant leave it. I was prepared for it though, I've known it would be like this for months so it's no shock.

For context, on my Twitter Michael Jackson is trending in the UK with 101k tweets.....but MUFC has 700k after they advanced after beating PSG in the Champions League, so that has 7 times more people talking about it.
 

magic

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somewhereinthedark;4246528 said:
It seems that everyone, even fans, are CONVENIENTLY forgetting that Michael stated that he would “share” give his bed to children and some parents, and he would sleep ON THE floor. Of course, these same people continually lie and say that only boys were in his bedroom SUITE. A suite with two levels, two beds and 2-3 bathrooms. The media wants to act as if his was some regular bedroom and not a bedroom/gameroom suite. That’s how the media has brainwashed a gullible and weak-minded public. I would think MJ fans would be smarter than that; however, it seems as if SOME fans are calling for the bull rap that the media perpetuated overv30 years. ago.Really, all it takes is common sense to figure the lies out. However, some are even too lazy and unwilling to do that. How sad!!

I am going to remind the doubters again, there were children(GIRLS and boys) who asked to go into Michael’s bedroom/gameroom suite, He always told them they had to get their parents permission first. Some of you fans are acting as if he FORCED these children into his suite. Remember, these are FAMILIES that Michael trusted and knew. If you know you are not a perverted sex fiend, why would you mind if CHILDREN come into your suite.
Thank you!
 

somewhereinthedark

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WildStyle;4246525 said:
We need to be really accurate in our defense of Michael. From his first complaint, it is not true that Safechuck says Michael cut ties with him after puberty. What he says is that Michael stopped abusing him after puberty. He mentions seeing Michael again and working for him in the mid 90's for the HIStory trailer and Earth Song video. <iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.704fca4914c9b90d7a9d41abcaa19933.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mjjcommunity.com&settingsEndpoint=https%3A%2F%2Fsyndication.twitter.com%2Fsettings" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;"></iframe>

See, this is the kind of thing that I have been speaking about. You point out that fans need to be accurate in their defense of Michael. Do you realize that you posted that Safechuck says that Michael stopped abusing him after puberty? Yet, this disgusting indivual says he returned to his so-called &#8220;abuser&#8221; to work for him. Does that make sense to any sane individual. Please don&#8217;t give me bull@#$* about him protecting Michael. Safechuck changed his timeline to fit his lie. Does him going back to work for Michael after claiming that he was abused make any sense%? Of course, it doesn&#8217;t, any rational person will agree. Robson and Safechuck are obsessed liars.
 

WildStyle

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somewhereinthedark;4246528 said:
It seems that everyone, even fans, are CONVENIENTLY forgetting that Michael stated that he would &#8220;share&#8221; give his bed to children and some parents, and he would sleep ON THE floor. Of course, these same people continually lie and say that only boys were in his bedroom SUITE. A suite with two levels, two beds and 2-3 bathrooms. The media wants to act as if his was some regular bedroom and not a bedroom/gameroom suite. That&#8217;s how the media has brainwashed a gullible and weak-minded public. I would think MJ fans would be smarter than that; however, it seems as if SOME fans are calling for the bull rap that the media perpetuated overv30 years. ago.Really, all it takes is common sense to figure the lies out. However, some are even too lazy and unwilling to do that. How sad!!

I am going to remind the doubters again, there were children(GIRLS and boys) who asked to go into Michael&#8217;s bedroom/gameroom suite, He always told them they had to get their parents permission first. Some of you fans are acting as if he FORCED these children into his suite. Remember, these are FAMILIES that Michael trusted and knew. If you know you are not a perverted sex fiend, why would you mind if CHILDREN come into your suite.

Every time, Safechuck and Robson were at Neverland, a parent was with them. I am so disgusted some fans who use the EXCUSE of Michael allowing children, not just boys, into his bedroom/game room suite, as some validation of sexual abuse. What the doubting fans need to be focused on is the FaCT that what these extortionists are spewing has no basis in reality. The graphic fantasies that these two are spewing are so easily refuted.

If we want to defend Michael accurately, we can not pick and choose statements or we will have no credibility. This sort of thing does not help us. Yes, in the Gavin case Michael did say that he slept on the floor. Michael has also said that he has slept in the bed with children. Michael sleeping in the bed with children is not something that is a disputed fact.
 

WildStyle

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somewhereinthedark;4246533 said:
See, this is the kind of thing that I have been speaking about. You point out that fans need to be accurate in their defense of Michael. Do you realize that you posted that Safechuck says that Michael stopped abusing him after puberty? Yet, this disgusting indivual says he returned to his so-called &#8220;abuser&#8221; to work for him. Does that make sense to any sane individual. Please don&#8217;t give me bull@#$* about him protecting Michael. Safechuck changed his timeline to fit his lie. Does him going back to work for Michael after claiming that he was abused make any sense%? Of course, it doesn&#8217;t, any rational person will agree. Robson and Safechuck are obsessed liars.

I'm talking about what Safechuck has claimed. How can we defend Michael if we are not being accurate about what is claimed?

If people are going to go around saying that Safechuck being with Michael on the set of the HIStory trailer is proof that he is lying because he said that Michael cut ties with him after puberty, even though that is not what is being claimed... it will not help us. Period.
 

Scream

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I'm the same, I've been up till 4am last night and tonight because I just cant leave it. I was prepared for it though, I've known it would be like this for months so it's no shock.
Same. I've barely slept in days.
Random question, whereabouts in Merseyside are you from? I was born and lived on the Wirral for most of my life, just curious.
 

L.T.D

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Same. I've barely slept in days.
Random question, whereabouts in Merseyside are you from? I was born and lived on the Wirral for most of my life, just curious.

I'm from Eastham on the Wirral, what a coincidence!
 

lookingout

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This really sucks. It hurts so much to see people taking about mj the way they are.
 

ksat9

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L.T.D;4246529 said:
I cant even see it being talked about by the end of the weekend, not in the US or UK anyway.
The reactions from the public and the numbers coming back as a flop in the US (I don’t care about streaming) are why I think this will blow over.
The people who think he’s guilty will never believe his innocence. We can throw all types of courts documents and government files at them and they will never care. The people who believe these two thought he was guilty in 05 and felt that he paid them off or used his celebrity to get off.
They were trashing him all the way until they confirmed his death and even then they were STILL trashing him after his death.
They can never end him and they know it. Not only is his fan base huge and loyal more than anyone, but he literally makes the industry too much money to cancel him. He is reported to have made $400 million last year which is more than any celebrity dead or alive. They know completely canceling him is losing hundreds of millions.
They’re literally just going back to normal in calling him names and slandering him.
 

Scream

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Well, I think it's finally time to sleep.
Night y'all. Lets pray that this all over before we know it.
 
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