Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

mdiegee210

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Wasn't MJ being investigated around this time, police, Sneddon and the FBI, where was w/s? and why would MJ ask w/s to testify for him IF he had molested them.
 
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Like I said I have read reactions from several real victims on twitter who feel really offended. And Oprah promoting it and Weinstein has what 80 accusers?

Yeah. I truly can't imagine people being ok with that. I gotta wonder what the actual abuse victims attending that shitshow of hers really think of her and her silence on Weinstein? It's all kinds of ****ed up.

Still hoping several of them will get on social media and join the other people that are victims as well and say they feel offended and can't take it seriously at all.

I think he is a pedophile. It really sounds like it.

More and more am I starting to think he contacted Victor Guitierrez, received a copy of that sad ****ing excuse for a book and based the mockumentary around/on it. And yeah, the way he talks about actual horrific alleged events and things, it rubs me the wrong way totally. Something is very off about that guy.

And I also remember that some people had seen his first documentary about pedophilia and they felt uncomfortable, not only obviously because of the subject but how Reed went about it, how he explained things, the way he explained things.

Actual sick assholes are being celebrated to this day, do people care? Nah. Weinstein? Meh who cares, Corey tried so many times to tell his story, what does the interviewer say? You really want to damage the reputation of all these Hollywood people? Something along those lines.

Michael who absolutely didn't have those kind of intentions, it really only takes one watch of his private home movies video and the footage of him where he's with his children and yeah... enough said. Not to mention his lyrics, his own poetry and book(s).


I just want to celebrate him this year with ya'll but apparently it's too much to ask.
 
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Nambla. Hes throwing stones to hide his hands.

I'm most definitely with you on that. Twice now this horrible nightmare happened to Michael when he was still alive. Never it was based on that narrative, the man/boy love thing, yes, NAMBLA. But now it so clearly is.

Did any of you read that Victor book? How much is obviously based off that?
 

La74

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Very good points there. And we all agree on that, we as fans know that he testified under oath that nothing ever happened. Didn't he even laugh it off at the trial during the cross examination? How old was he in 2005? It comes down to that he expects people to believe that he STILL saw it as love and normal and was protecting MJ there because he didn't want him to end in prison. He was an adult during the 2005 trial, right? So he wants us to believe he thought it was NORMAL and actual love and a relationship between him and MJ, that includes him having to perform oral sex, spreading his buttcheeks and so on. A adult that still then believes that was normal, he was merely protecting Michael.

But then he has a child of his own, he doesn't get the Cirque part (and God forbid when Wade doesn't get what he wants) he then starts to realize it was abuse because his memory evolved and then tries the book etc. The big problem is, many of the people watching that don't know about all that, they likely didn't go into this shitshow knowing about that complete 360 Wade did. I do think it's not impossible for us to discredit things but it's gonna be more challenging now.

He was born in 1982 so 23.
 
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He was born in 1982 so 23.

Thank you. Good lord, and what year('s) does he claim these encounters occurred? I didn't watch LN.

Clearly he was very young, let's for now leave it at that. A 23 year old man STILL believes that it was normal for a grown ass man to act that way with a young boy?

Pause! This is what the doubters and believers need to know. Or well, it seems they know but they believe Wade.

tenor2dgkk7.gif


Really, the fact that he did those complete 360 when the loser didn't get the job says it all. In my book it debunks it all.
 

Andymachine

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Cmon Jacksons get leaking those songs from the vaults or anyone that has start leaking , nothing to lose now
 

La74

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Staffordshire Bullterrier;4245140 said:
Thank you. Good lord, and what year('s) does he claim these encounters occurred? I didn't watch LN.

Clearly he was very young, let's for now leave it at that. A 23 year old man STILL believes that it was normal for a grown ass man to act that way with a young boy?

Pause! This is what the doubters and believers need to know. Or well, it seems they know but they believe Wade.

tenor2dgkk7.gif

And then at about 30 then you don’t get a job for a tribute show then you realize it was wrong. Very believable indeed. Also didn’t he feel like he cheated on Michael with Brandi and Britney Spears?
 

Lightbringer

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Think about it! Dan Reed's "Leaving Neverland" is basically peddling the narrative that child sexual abuse victims enjoyed their abuse! My head is exploding. As Martin Luther King, Jr. used to say "The arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice..." I pray that this is true.

Its not perceived as ABUSE for the child, if its consensual sex. If you are being violent or doing stuff they get discomfort/disgust from then they would obviously not enjoy it. But thats not what the story is in this case.

Well, you do not seem to understand that is possible for a 10-14 year old to enjoy sexual acts with an adult. Why would it not be possible? Its consensual sexual acts either way. If lets say 12 year old boy is in love with an adult and they get a blowjob, they are getting the same sexual sensations as if they were to get a blowjob from a 12 year old girl. The sexual aspects of it is very easy to understand. MJ were not physically harming them according to their stories, they made love to each other.

Whats maybe a bit harder to sell is that the kid would be in love with adult, but as the child sex expert is going to say, its not unseen of or insanely rare. Its not like they are claiming something that have never been heard of before.

I am not saying Michael did any of this, since Safechuck is copying Gutierrez lies and I know all the facts - but the public does not know that. I just want to be realistic about what the claims are and how the general person will think of it. And I am basing this from arguments I have had with people who have seen the film and are convinced MJ had REAL love affairs with the boys
 
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La74

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Anyway I have seen votings on twitter the the majorty does not beleive this.
 

La74

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Its not perceived as ABUSE for the child, if its consensual sex.

Well, you do not seem to understand that is possible for a 10-14 year old to enjoy sexual acts with an adult. Why would it not be possible? Its consensual sexual acts either way. If lets say 12 year old boy is in love with an adult and they get a blowjob, they are getting the same sexual sensations as if they were to get a blowjob from a 12 year old girl. The sexual aspects of it is very easy to understand. MJ were not physically harming them according to their stories, they made love to each other.

Whats maybe a bit harder to sell is that the kid would be in love with adult, but as the child sex expert is going to say, its not unseen of or insanely rare.

I am not saying Michael did any of this, since Safechuck is copying Gutierrez lies, but the public does not know that.

Some people will beleive it but a lot of people wont.
 

Carmour260

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Alert, “The Wendy Williams Show” is going to talk about this mockumentary. I know they’re going to trash Michael, and I will not watch that tabloid mess!
 

terrell

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The reaction is still not a bad. Many people are being fair even on the radio. many want to hear the other side because MJ is not here to defend himself. Some do not know what to think (that is better than someone who think he is guilty and they think that is that), and there are others who want more indept. I still feel in my heart this will work out for MJ. Now, all the dirt on the people who lied on him will be expose even for Jordan to admit he lied. Time will tell. But again, there seem to be more fair minded people. We still can have the Victory. Keep your heads ups. DO NOT GO BY SIGHT, GO BY FAITH.
 

aqwsz

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I've read the last few pages here especially Lightbringers comments. From what I gather here. It is possible that those two are actually speaking the truth... We have zero ammunition to fire back so it could be true.
I've said this before but if others come forward now, there is no going back. The key is in what other guys who spend weeks and months with MJ do now. If something happened there is no more reason to stay silent. So if they stay silent...nothing happened... I think.
 

KOPV

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mjjforum coming back? Im so confused, I always considered this the home of MJJF.. Now going to be 2 entities? Where do I call "home" than? lol I mean I was rocking with MJJF way back since like '03 than was part of the change to MJJC..

I
 

WildStyle

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Just finished part 2. It's very well produced. It is very one sided.... but it is also very very convincing. The general public will believe it. This is big, and it is bad. And it going to take an extremely strong rebuttal to counteract.
 
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Like I said according to the timeline MJ must have known in 2005 what Wade did to brandy with multible woman.

So he had to be three times frighten to put such an multible time scammer and an grown up man (knew what sexual absuse is) who was his victim for seven years (and according to wade abused him over 100 times) and is not an professional actor on the stand as his first witness!!

This are three resons why wade could speak out on the stand against MJ in a cross examination or whould not be beliveable for the jury.

Always keep in mind that MJ could have choosed hunderts of other children he never touched.

Wade knows this too. I think this is one reson why he repeatetly says there must have been so much other victims, that the selection of non victims for MJ whould not be so big in 2005 that he MUST choose wade.
 
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La74;4245142 said:
And then at about 30 then you don’t get a job for a tribute show then you realize it was wrong. Very believable indeed. Also didn’t he feel like he cheated on Michael with Brandi and Britney Spears?

Yeah it's unbelievable. This will hopefully be his downfall with all this. Had he not testified in 2005 he would never had to now come up with lies to why he testified, and that would have meant him now coming out with this was actually new and maybe more believable too, since he never defended MJ. But he did, he shot himself in the foot. Please let that be the case.

La74;4245145 said:
The old mjjforum is about to reopen and then it does maybe we can work together. http://mjjforum.com/site/

I've never been a member there, for me MJJC was always the place to be. But two MJ forums? Sure why the hell not :)

Lightbringer;4245146 said:
Its not perceived as ABUSE for the child, if its consensual sex. If you are being violent or doing stuff they get discomfort/disgust from then they would obviously not enjoy it. But thats not what the story is in this case.

Well, you do not seem to understand that is possible for a 10-14 year old to enjoy sexual acts with an adult. Why would it not be possible? Its consensual sexual acts either way. If lets say 12 year old boy is in love with an adult and they get a blowjob, they are getting the same sexual sensations as if they were to get a blowjob from a 12 year old girl. The sexual aspects of it is very easy to understand. MJ were not physically harming them according to their stories, they made love to each other.

Whats maybe a bit harder to sell is that the kid would be in love with adult, but as the child sex expert is going to say, its not unseen of or insanely rare. Its not like they are claiming something that have never been heard of before.

I am not saying Michael did any of this, since Safechuck is copying Gutierrez lies and I know all the facts - but the public does not know that. I just want to be realistic about what the clams are and how the general person will think of it.

That's why we have to inform the people of that, because that is so damn important. The book by that filthy guy Victor and Wade's time-line of when he made the crazy turnaround right after not getting the role. Had he gotten the role, this wouldn't have happened.

Anyone should be able to see through that. Well, people that aren't already so far gone in that they believe MJ was this sick person. We probably should also bring the very real possibility that Reed contacted Victor for that book. It's crystal clear. That whole marriage thing was straight from the book, no?

La74;4245147 said:
Anyway I have seen votings on twitter the the majorty does not beleive this.

Good! Real good. Have people seen both parts or is part 2 tomorrow?

La74;4245148 said:
Some people will beleive it but a lot of people wont.

That would pretty mean we're back to square one, as in how it has always been. Even after the trial there were those lost souls who believed every tabloid etc. I'd be fine with this outcome.

Carmour260;4245149 said:
Alert, “The Wendy Williams Show” is going to talk about this mockumentary. I know they’re going to trash Michael, and I will not watch that tabloid mess!

Hahaha, Wendy Williams? Oh man, yeah she just needs to **** off right now. Wasn't Whoopy Goldberg at her show a while ago and fully stood up for Mike there?
 

Lightbringer

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I've read the last few pages here especially Lightbringers comments. From what I gather here. It is possible that those two are actually speaking the truth... We have zero ammunition to fire back so it could be true.
I've said this before but if others come forward now, there is no going back. The key is in what other guys who spend weeks and months with MJ do now. If something happened there is no more reason to stay silent. So if they stay silent...nothing happened... I think.

I appreciate that you have read the messages I think they are very important, but:

No, thats NOT what I am saying.

Everything makes it seem that Wade & Safechuck has copied Gutierrez MADE UP FICTION Man & Boy LOVE relationships. But that will be very hard for the general public to understand since they are not familiar with NAMBLA or Victor Gutierrez. They have choosen the most credible story and have perfected it, so by that I am saying this is all a BIG LIE. But its very hard to get that to the media and the general viewer of the film.

So just because we cant easily debunk their story, does not mean Michael molested them.

Why else would Michael Jackson allegedly give Safechuck a medallion as a man/boy marriage token? Thats copied directly from Gutierrez book, which were made from Jordan Chandlers diary - but Jordan Chandler NEVER kept a diary. So it was all made up.

Unless MJ just happened to choose to give Safechuck a medallion and marry him just the same way as Gutierrez MADE UP FANTASY! Thats beoynd absurd.

Do you understand?
---
Also, did you watch the following video yet? If not make sure you watch it ASAP!

 
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La74

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terrell;4245151 said:
The reaction is still not a bad. Many people are being fair even on the radio. many want to hear the other side because MJ is not here to defend himself. Some do not know what to think (that is better than someone who think he is guilty and they think that is that), and there are others who want more indept. I still feel in my heart this will work out for MJ. Now, all the dirt on the people who lied on him will be expose even for Jordan to admit he lied. Time will tell. But again, there seem to be more fair minded people. We still can have the Victory. Keep your heads ups. DO NOT GO BY SIGHT, GO BY FAITH.
People want more indept is really good because then maybe they start investigate the whole story from the beginning. Like I said before Josephine Zohny who knew Jordan from university is ready to come forward if a legal counsel or the family contact her. Brett Barnes is threathening to sue and maybe others will as well. We wil have to wait and see what happens. There will ofcourse be people who goes ”he was accused” and then are just not interested in the circumstances but let us not focus on them. As for Jordan I can kind of image the situation and all the publicity it would bring.Brett Barnes has been haressed for weeks.
 

Blondie

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Gonna have to take a break from comments and social media etc for a bit but has anyone noticed this same old contradiction:

Michael: " was a master groomer, he had too much power and was very masterful at what he did. Incredible lengths and procedures to keep abuse quiet"

Also Michael: " Admits openly to having children sleep in his room on tv, makes himself an obvious target, invites his alleged rape victims to the witness stand to defend him"

:troll2:
 

Andymachine

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I've read the last few pages here especially Lightbringers comments. From what I gather here. It is possible that those two are actually speaking the truth... We have zero ammunition to fire back so it could be true.
I've said this before but if others come forward now, there is no going back. The key is in what other guys who spend weeks and months with MJ do now. If something happened there is no more reason to stay silent. So if they stay silent...nothing happened... I think.

Exactly. However I do not believe this did happen with MJ but it is exactly what was "meant to have gone on with Jordan Chandler" . The Arvizo thing was totally bogus. You can instantly discount that. It's made to look like a love story and people of all ages can fall in love however the adult has to act like a human being and be responsible. Which hopefully in most cases people are.
 

Lightbringer

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Exactly. However I do not believe this did happen with MJ but it is exactly what was "meant to have gone on with Jordan Chandler" . The Arvizo thing was totally bogus. You can instantly discount that. It's made to look like a love story and people of all ages can fall in love however the adult has to act like a human being and be responsible. Which hopefully in most cases people are.

After Gutierrez claimed to have a videotape with Michael having sex with a pre-teen child Diane Diamond went out and made a film where she claimed Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler had a honeymoon during the award show in Monaco, after getting married earlier. Thats where the MAN/BOY thing were created.

Or were it alleged to have been such a relationship during the Grand Jurys in 1994 as well?
 
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